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#214254 - 07/03/08 01:36 PM Lossless CD digital media storage ideas??
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder

Iím looking for ideas and input for an idea Iím mulling over. Iím a computer idiot, so I donít even know if this is possible.

I have two Sony 400 CD mega changers that I use for my two channel rig and both are full. I have about two hundred more CDís lying around. I can either buy another changer, or go all digital. Iím leaning toward the all digital direction. I would love to buy an Olive Opus media storage device, but Iíll never spend $4,000 on one of them. Itís just too much for me to justify. The changers work OK, but they have their obvious limitations. Iíd much rather have my CDís stored on a hard drive so I can sort and play and create playlists. I also find that when I play the changers in random, I donít think itís very randomÖ..

I do not like ripped or compressed music files. They just donít sound right to me. I know there are advocates for some of the formats, but Iíd rather just store all my CDís in a lossless, uncompressed format. Hard drive space is getting cheap too, so I donít see any value with compressed formats.

So hereís my ideaÖ.

Buy a used laptop with enough processing power to do what I want it to do. Buy an external hard drive with ESATA or USB and at least 1T of space. Spec out and install a super fast drive that will let me copy all my CDís onto the hard drive as quick as possible (RE: 1000 CDís will take days and Iím impatient). Iíd also like this drive to read / copy SACD/DVDA. Install a media software program (not real sure which one to use). Install a kick ass sound card with two channel DACís that I can plug into my pre amp.

Iíd then use this laptop only for CD playback and firmware updates for the rest of my A/V gear. Iíd also use it for my display calibration software. The laptop would have to have RS232 because some of gear has RS232 and no USB.

Is this even possible??
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#214256 - 07/03/08 01:40 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
You're screwed on the ripping side of things.

a) Drives tend to top out at 52x, and that's all there is to it.
b) ripping can take serious processor horsepower.
c) No drives read or copy SACD/DVD-A.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#214268 - 07/03/08 02:46 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
Also, I wouldn't spend too much money on a "kick ass sound card" - the DACS in your current receiver/pre/pro probably kick as much ass as those you'd pay for in a sound card. Just a simple audio card with a digital out (S/PDIF) will work fine.

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#214306 - 07/03/08 04:47 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Capn_Pickard]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Oh sure.... pop my balloon!!!
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#214330 - 07/03/08 07:18 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Riker Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 375
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
I've got a D-Link NAS enclosure with 2 WD 500GB SATA drives in it for a total of 1 TB of disk space. This little things connect to my network and is available to any computer on my network. It contains about 400GB of mostly lossless music in FLAC or APE formats. I also have a SONOS system which wirelessly transmit all of my uncompressed music to other rooms in my house. The other rooms have a Sonos amplifier with speakers connected to it. The main Sonos unit connects to my Preprocessor via SPDIF digital out.

So, I walk around the house with my Sonos remote control and can play all of that music anywhere I've got speakers and a Sonos amplifier, of course, through my main audio setup as well.

Yes, ripping CDs will take a bit of time, but the convenience after is well worth it in my opinion.
_________________________
Acoustic Zen Adagio, Veritas center, Axiom EP500, QS8s, Anthem AVM20, MC20,Adcom GFA7400

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#214564 - 07/07/08 12:07 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Riker]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I use a Rotel RB 1070 for a pre amp. It has no DACs. Just analogue inputs. So I reckon my grand idea of laptop interface is defunctÖÖ.

Second option that Iím now pondering is to just suck it up and buy a media storage device or a controller for my changers.

I found this one that looks way coolÖ. http://www.escient.com/products/dvdm100.html

I found it with a quick Google search, refurbished for $1000. It will control three Sony Mega Changers.

The product page says it will only control Sony 777 DVD changers, but I called tech support and was told it will control any Sony changer with S-link, but that in his words ďMostĒ people donít use it for what I want, with emphasis on the most. I reckon Tom and I are the only weirdoís out there that use Mega changers and want to automat them. So while I had this guy on the phone, I asked him about media cataloguing and creating play lists like in Windows Media Player or I-tunes. He told me that all I had to do was hook this thing up to my changers and tell it to catalogue and it takes it from there. It will cycle each CD, grab data off the CD and then talk to their server and grab album cover and all the other info just like WMP. All I need is a monitor and Iím set. They sell a touch screen that works with the DVDM100 too. That would be way coolÖ

Tom, why donít you buy this and tell me how well it works???

Riker,

Thanks. I'll look some more into what you are doing as well.
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#214619 - 07/08/08 06:51 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Curved Air Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 18
Have you looked at the offerings from slimdevices?

I recently got a squeezebox duet and am very happy with it. Busy moving everything over to flac which is taking a while but it is a one time deal.

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#214904 - 07/10/08 10:57 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Curved Air]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Tell me some more about storage and interface with these devices from Sonos and Slimdevices fellas....

I'd rather like to have something independent from my main home / office PC that is convenient to use and interface with. I sorta like the idea of having a system where I could pipe some tunes to my garage and spa room.
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#214905 - 07/10/08 11:12 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Because I like iTunes and want to keep it integrated with my ipod use, I settled on the following solution.

1. 1TB hardrive of mainly apple lossless uncompressed music files ripped from CDs connected to my PC.

2. Slimdevices Duet with receiver connected to my stereo rig.

3. Wireless transmission of all music files through my router.

This setup lets me integrate the Slimdevices Squeezecenter with iTunes so I can seamlessly add files to either one and have it replicated in the other application. My hardrive is almost full with 40,000 tracks (4,300 albums) so its time to add another harddrive.




_________________________
John

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#214932 - 07/10/08 03:55 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
That Transporter from Slimdevices looks pretty trick. Not sure if it's $2000 trick though....

It looks as if I still need a computor for both the Sonos and SD gear to talk to after all the CD's are loaded onto the computor's hard drive. Is this asumption correct?? If so, the Esceint DVDM-100 might be my best option.
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#214989 - 07/11/08 02:22 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Lohengrin Offline
buff

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Texas
I use several methods to store and "stream" music throughout the house.
For storage I have a Sony 400 disk SACD/DVD player and an HP Home Server (MS Home Server software) with 3TB storage. I also use the server for back-ups and television capture storage.

For distribution I use a cat5 based system (A-Bus) that allows 4 sources to be streamed to up to 8 locations. There is a lot of wiring involved in this method but it is quite dependable.

For Source material I rely on the SACD player, television (digital music channels), receiver and XBox360.

I also subscribe to Rhapsody so I have an almost unlimited selection of music that is perfectly acceptable quality at ambient (background, if you wish) listening levels. This is stored on the server as well and the XBox (with Media Center) handles the DRM without overloading the internet connection.

I don't know if this helps your situation, but it has yet to fail me. Besides, with 3TB, music storage is but a blip on overall load.

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#214996 - 07/11/08 03:21 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Lohengrin]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Tell me about your cat5 system. That was my initial idea when I built the house. I have cat5 and speaker wire ran to four locations that are all home ran back to my office. When I built the house, I was going to use ceiling speakers in the four zones and use a multi source / multi zone amp. After I heard ceiling speakers and was dismally disappointed, I just ditched the idea. I can still use the wiring if needed though.
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#215006 - 07/11/08 06:45 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Lohengrin Offline
buff

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Texas
Here is a link to the system I have:

http://www.home-technology-store.com/home-audio/H4-AU1002-KIT.aspx

There is also a schematic lower on that page showing how it all fits together.

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#215257 - 07/14/08 06:07 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Lohengrin]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Well, Mike, how about if YOU buy it, and I'll test it for you? \:\)

Your main problem is that you just don't want to spend the time to rip all your disks. After you rip everything to FLAC, the rest of the scenario is cake with many options.

So, just get over it. Use Exact Audio Copy, rip everything to FLAC, clean up your library, and be done with it. Or pay somebody to do it. Time and money.

I gave up on the Sony changer scenario after one of mine died. I still have the other one, but I basically never use it any more. I could never get the other members of the family to warm up to the Home Jukebox software.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#215258 - 07/14/08 06:18 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I know..... I just need to rip all of them and move into the 21st centuryÖÖ..

I've pretty much made up my mind to buy a HP media server and either Sonos or Squeeze. I might even pick up an external DAC for the magic streaming box.
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#215289 - 07/15/08 08:36 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
I've started ripping my discs here and there over the last two weeks at 320kbs MP3s for the compatibility. I've STILL not networked the eight computers here (Thank God for 8GB thumb drives) but will be ready for the XBox 360 or TiVo in the living room to play them down the road.

I was motivated into finally doing this because I'm suddenly using my portable MP3 player on any sort of regular basis for the first time. I only used it for flying and dentist appointments in the past, but now that I'm taking on lots of home improvement and woodworking projects of late, I've started using it all the time.

I'm afraid that if I went to something other than MP3, I'd lose compatibility with various disc players, car stereos, etc. that are ONLY MP3 compatible.

So far, so good. Though I'm only listening to bands that start with an "A" or a "B" so far! \:\)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#215291 - 07/15/08 10:08 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
If you are going to put all that effort into ripping you may want to reconsider whether to go mp3 vs lossless. You can always convert lossless to mp3 but forget going the other way once you've compressed the files. The neat thing about iPods is that they play ALAC (Apple Lossless) files. Ripping using FLAC is another popular option though most players including iPod won't play them.
_________________________
John

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#215294 - 07/15/08 11:36 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
I'm using a Sandisk player that I'm happy with. I guess I don't want to have to re-convert everything if my next car stereo plays MP3s only or the disc player I put in my workshop only plays MP3s.

I still have all the discs in their jewel cases right in the living room...


Aren't 320kps MP3s essentially considered as sounding as good as the original?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#215295 - 07/15/08 11:55 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Nice cd shelving. I've been looking for a good looking solution like you have.

On the 320mp3 vs. lossless debate, you'll hear both view but on transparent Axiom speakers I hear the difference. I've got a TB hard drive of mainly ALAC files with about 40GB of 320mp3s. Its subtle but when I play an ALAC and 320mp3 of the same tune over my Audiobytes I can hear the difference...just a bit more resolution in the lossless file. For listening over a portable player it may not matter but if you ever decide to get into digital steaming into your main gear there is a good chance you will hear a difference.
_________________________
John

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#215301 - 07/15/08 12:29 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
 Quote:
I've STILL not networked the eight computers here


Just...wow.

Somebody needs a geekervention.

I'm sure there are any number of us that would do it for expenses.

Then, we can take all your computers to Alaska to rip Mike's collection.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#215302 - 07/15/08 12:33 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I ripped everything to FLAC and then used flac2mp3 to create lower bitrate MP3's in addition to the lossless files. I don't need 320kbs for portables or the car. So, for the price of some processing time and another small, cheap disk drive, I have the universal, portable versions and the hi-fi versions.

MediaMonkey seems to be a pretty great application, too. I believe if you purchase the modestly-priced pay version, it will convert from FLAC to MP3 on-the-fly when you sync to a portable device.
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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#215308 - 07/15/08 01:31 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
My Squeezebox from Slimdevices is my second favorite electronics purchase ever. Axioms, being first of course.

All CDs have been ripped to FLAC to be streamed lossless to the Squeezebox and I also made 256KBs MP3s at the time for my portable player. Used EAC for ripping with a script that does the MP3s as soon as the FLACs are done.

When not listening to my flac collection, I also use the Squeezebox to tune into my local radio station (via internet) to get weather and news in the morning and enjoy having access to hundreds of other Internet Music stations. I explore a lot of interesting genres this way where I might not have been brave enough to go buy a bunch of say 'world music' CDS unheard.

Oh, and while I'm not sure you can rip DVD-A or SACD, as mentioned, I have converted a lot of my concert DVDs to wav format to flac in order to listen to the live tracks via my Squeezebox as well. Some quality seems to be lost as it converts the 5.1 to stereo files but it's still very acceptable and I can listen to some great concerts on the main floor where we have no TV to watch the actual DVD.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#215318 - 07/15/08 01:59 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
 Quote:
Used EAC for ripping with a script that does the MP3s as soon as the FLACs are done


I would love to have the details on that. Speak slowly. I only impersonate a real geek.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#215326 - 07/15/08 03:09 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Oh, and while I'm not sure you can rip DVD-A or SACD, as mentioned, I have converted a lot of my concert DVDs to wav format to flac in order to listen to the live tracks via my Squeezebox as well. Some quality seems to be lost as it converts the 5.1 to stereo files but it's still very acceptable and I can listen to some great concerts on the main floor where we have no TV to watch the actual DVD.


I've been planning to do that as well. What software do you use?
_________________________
John

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#215336 - 07/15/08 03:45 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
I think the SqueezeBox Duet can pass DTS direct (and maybe also DD) so there is a possibility of not loosing the surround. For DVD, I personnaly use "DVD Audio Extractor".
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#215339 - 07/15/08 03:59 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: EFalardeau]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
News to me Eric? I have the Duet. I'll check out he Extractor. Thanks.
_________________________
John

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#215342 - 07/15/08 04:12 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Check in the "Audio Formats" for this link:

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html

There is a "Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS". Might be something that was copied from their "Transporter" page and no-one noticed the error.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#215353 - 07/15/08 05:37 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: EFalardeau]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
What do y'all think about the Transporter? Waste of money or something worth considering? I'm also considering a PS Audio DAC.
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#215356 - 07/15/08 05:51 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
What do y'all think about the Transporter? Waste of money or something worth considering? I'm also considering a PS Audio DAC.


Transporter: $1999
Airport Express: $99

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Does the Transporter come with three of these or something? Heck, Microcult types can apparently even pull music straight into some AVR's without an external widget at all.

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#215369 - 07/15/08 10:06 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
When I auditioned the Transporter last January I thought it had great fidelity and resolution. It was clear they designed it with top of the line materials and with particular attention to jitter which makes for that grainy, edgy sound. But at $2,000 it is pricey and I think the Duet remote/receiver for $400 is a better deal though its sound quality isn't on par with the Transporter.

We also compared the Transporter to a Mac notebook into a Benchmark USB DAC. The three of us favoured the Benchmark over the Transporter. The Benchmark supposedly has the lowest jitter of any current DAC. Based on that session I went with a Slim Duet/Benchmark DAC combo which was cheaper than the Transporter and gave me that terrific remote and the flexibility to add more receivers throughout my home. The Duet receiver connects to the Benchmark DAC through the optical port though I'm told the best sound comes via the USB port.

Since then I've added another Duet squeezebox receiver for $150 so I can stream tunes into my patio speakers and control them with the remote. For outdoor listening I just plugged the Duet into my old Sansui 9090db receiver. The Wolfson Dac in the Duet is pretty good just not up to the Transporter or Benchmark quality.



_________________________
John

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#215406 - 07/16/08 11:04 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
 Quote:
Used EAC for ripping with a script that does the MP3s as soon as the FLACs are done


I would love to have the details on that. Speak slowly. I only impersonate a real geek.


I wish I could say that it was easy but it was far from it. If it ever breaks, I'm going to just manually do it twice per CD.

If you are already creating MP3s with EAC then you already have an MP3 encoder installed. I use and recommend LAME but there are a lot of options to understand when you set it up.

Good link on Lame options

After that, you need some free third party software. I originally used Autoflac
However, you have to copy and modify a script to make it to what you want. Quick searching no longer finds for me an example script but it has to be out there.

The latest rage in automating EAC is called
REACT
However, setting it up is all done by modifying it's .ini file. This requires a comfort with .ini files and/or scripting type languages. It doesn't look much easier than AutoFlac was.

I can send you my script for AutoFlac if you PM me. It will get you started and it's fairly obvious how to change compression ratios and such once the hard part is working.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#215407 - 07/16/08 11:11 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Thanks John...

Have you heard, or looked into the PS Audio DAC?
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#215408 - 07/16/08 11:15 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
 Originally Posted By: jakeman
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Oh, and while I'm not sure you can rip DVD-A or SACD, as mentioned, I have converted a lot of my concert DVDs to wav format to flac in order to listen to the live tracks via my Squeezebox as well. Some quality seems to be lost as it converts the 5.1 to stereo files but it's still very acceptable and I can listen to some great concerts on the main floor where we have no TV to watch the actual DVD.


I've been planning to do that as well. What software do you use?


I think I also use "DVD Audio Extractor". I will have to check my home PC tonight to confirm. I tried a couple but ended up actually paying the 12 bucks or something to 'legally' get all the features of this one, as it seemed best.

It seems to do a relatively good job of selecting the individual tracks/chapters and making separate stereo, wave files out of the Dolby 5.1 info.

My biggest issue, which can be overcome with an EAC script or switching ripping software, is that once you have the wave files created on your hard drive, all my ripping software currently wants to look to my CD/DVD ROM drive on the computer for the source files to rip into FLACs or MP3s.

At the time I couldn't be bothered downloading yet another ripping software package or messing with AutoEAC scripts again so I just wasted a couple of CDs and copied the wave files to them. Then used EAC to rip to flac as per normal.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#215410 - 07/16/08 11:42 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
Thanks John...

Have you heard, or looked into the PS Audio DAC?


I know about it but have never heard it. These days for that kind of money a DAC should have a USB port for additional connectivity to a computer or notebook. The similar priced Benchmark USB DAC has won huge praise and for good reason. There are several technical advantages to using a USB port over coaxial or toslink which are bit limited and more prone to jitter.

I'm a bit biased about PS Audio products since they rarely show specs or graphs on their products. I haven't found any on the PS audio DAC. Also I participated in an expose over their Noise Harvester product some time ago and was less than impressed.
_________________________
John

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#215635 - 07/18/08 02:12 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakeman]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Thanks John......

I've decided to go with a server. The one I'm looking at is an HP unit.

Are there other reasonably priced home servers I should be looking at? I'd prefer one that can lie down on its side and I'll just slide it in on the shelf on my EQ rack where one of the mega changers is.
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#215638 - 07/18/08 02:26 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
Are there other reasonably priced home servers I should be looking at? I'd prefer one that can lie down on its side and I'll just slide it in on the shelf on my EQ rack where one of the mega changers is.

Sounds to me like you're describing a Mac Mini or even Apple TV.

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#215639 - 07/18/08 02:29 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
Ken.C Online   content
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Yeah, but those don't have a whole lot of storage, and I think the ATV isn't going to do what Mike wants.
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#215642 - 07/18/08 03:46 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
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Storage is highly expandable via FireWire (or even USB).

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#215645 - 07/18/08 04:37 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
jakewash Offline
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The HP's work very well and allow for alot of storage even the little one has 4 bays. Others to consider are the smaller Linksys NAS200 which I use, and the Dlink DNS 323.
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#215649 - 07/18/08 05:19 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
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From my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the server option may be a little faster for file access. The NAS doesn't have a processor and the Squeeze box or Sonos would have to interface with a PC on the network to access files on the NAS. The Server does not need a PC but for ripping the disks. Do I have that right????
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#215650 - 07/18/08 05:26 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
Lohengrin Offline
buff

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Texas
The HP Home Server is what I use and it is much smaller than you would first imagine. It is not much larger than the four drives it is designed to hold. It also runs fairly cool. I bought the 500GB model and added two 750GB and a single 1GB drive.
After three months of use I have observed:
It streams wireless to my XBox360 (using media center) with very few difficulties with music and SD video through two walls-60ft.
It is not the fastest drive to upload to that you will ever find, but it is tolerable. Mine averages about 5 minutes for 30min of video. It can get a bit cranky when left on its own (about once a week it has to be rebooted, but I think it is a problem with my ISP changing settings).
Overall, I recommend it for digital storage with the disclaimer that I have not attempted to stream HD video from it yet.

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#215657 - 07/18/08 05:46 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Lohengrin]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I'm just looking to store CD's on it and it will be hard wired. I supose I could look just as easy as type this....but what are the demensions?? It looks like a full sized desk tower on the web sight.
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#215659 - 07/18/08 06:20 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Lohengrin Offline
buff

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Texas
Mine is about 5.5"W x 10"H x 9"D.

For spacially challenged: It about the size of a piece of notebook paper, looking at it from the side.

Mine is wired into the network.

A bonus is that it automatically backs up all computers connected to it nightly (if they are on) and stores the last 3 days / 3 weeks / 3 months of backups.
Another bonus is the "raid" setting can be adjusted per folder. For example, my digital photos are duplicated across drives so that if any one drive fails I don't lose everything. It takes up a lot of space so duplication of music and video are prohibitive.

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#215716 - 07/19/08 12:18 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Lohengrin]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
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thanks....
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#215786 - 07/21/08 10:07 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Murph Offline
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Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
F. The NAS doesn't have a processor and the Squeeze box or Sonos would have to interface with a PC on the network to access files on the NAS. The Server does not need a PC but for ripping the disks. Do I have that right????


Correct on the Squeezebox always requiring access to a PC for your music Library. It can access internet radio and other online music services without a PC running, but to access an MP3 or FLAC library it must use a server app running on a PC somewhere.

For me, this is not an issue as I never turn my main PC off anyways. I use it for too many various things.
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#216395 - 07/25/08 11:33 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
myrison Offline
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Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
One thing no one has mentioned (unless I missed it) is the ability of the PS3 to function as a media streamer when connected to your main listening location. I'm with Mark and ripped my entire collection to 320 kbps MP3 using LAME. So, if you're willing to go to MP3, the PS3 has awesome networking and streaming capabilities. I have a 1TB internal drive in my main desktop computer that is located in the home office and the PS3 networks through a Powerline adapter and streams it beautifully to my home theater.

I decided to go with MP3 after doing several ABX tests in my home theater on my Axiom system and finding myself completely unable to pick out the MP3 versus the original file. On top of that, I've read Alan's comments a few times here saying that he finds 320kbps MP3s to be transparent. I'm not saying others can't hear the difference, I'm just saying I can't, which was all that mattered to me. ;\) Plus, I know storage is cheap and getting cheaper all the time, but lossless files still chew up the space.

I also have two Apple Airport Express wireless adapters in the house, which I bought before I knew about how the PS3 streamed music. These work wonderfully as well as long as the microphone isn't running. \:\)

Mdrew - for CD ripping, I feel your pain. I actually just ripped my entire collection (~300 CDs) to MP3s about 2 weeks ago... We "only" have 3 computers in my house (*looks at Mark*), but if you happen to have more than one computer and you rip the CDs in sets of 3, it actually goes somewhat quickly. It only took a few days to get it done (it took about 6 minutes per set of 3).

My other exercise when I did this was to convert all of my purchased iTunes files (yes, I did a lot of this before I knew better) to DRM-free MP3s so that they could be played in any device. I used a program called Noteburner for this which worked pretty efficiently.

Long rambling post... hopefully some of it is helpful (or at least minimally informative) ;\)

Jason
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#216441 - 07/26/08 01:29 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: myrison]
Ray3 Offline
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2842
Loc: Rochester, NY
Agree with Jason on the PS3 solution. I have moved all of my music to an external 750 GB USB HD and plugged it into the PS3 USB port (actually into a powered 8 port hub and THEN into the PS3). Also have all of my pictures and am in the process of moving my DVDs to the external drives (have a 320 GB too).

Simple, convenient and eliminates network hassles.


Edited by Ray3 (07/26/08 01:29 PM)

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#216790 - 07/29/08 10:28 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle

Use Exact Audio Copy, rip everything to FLAC, clean up your library, and be done with it.


OK Tom, (or anyone so inclined to take a few minutes to assist)

I downloaded Exact Copy and I have a 500G external drive to dump the FLAC files onto.

Before I start this mind numbing process, how about an explanation for a PC idiot? The whole process starting from hitting the eject button to getting these things onto the hard drive for storage till I get the server.
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#216809 - 07/30/08 01:47 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Never used EAC but with Winamp you just put the disc in the drive and set the ripping setup to flac and set the desired drive to the one you want and then hit rip on the main screen. I know I am not much help but you could DL winamp and try it out as well, it works very well for me.
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#216818 - 07/30/08 08:31 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
So after it's ripped to FLAC, how is it cued up for play? Does the media software find the albums?
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#216867 - 07/30/08 04:09 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
From your last post, did you get EAC working or did you use Winamp?

In case you get the same trouble I have with Winamp.... It crashes to an error message I can't exactly recall when I try to rip.

Here is a brief quick start on getting EAC set up. It is a There also seems to be a kind of "use it if you want to play with the big boys" attitude out there on the forums, but that's just peer pressure for geeks.

If you decide it's for you.

-- First you need to download and install the FLAC encoder program. (EAC is kind of a shell program. It acts as a GUI to various other encoder programs and passes on any parameters that would otherwise be complicated command line extras.)

FLAC Program Download Sight

Take note of what folder it installs into.

-- Open the EAC Program.

--check or change where your ripped files will end up.
-----From the main menu, choose [EAC]
-----From the EAC menu, choose [EAC Options]
-----On the popup window, choose the [Directories] tab.
-----Click to select the [Use this Directory] option.
-----Use the [Browse] button to view your folders and select one to store your files.
-----Click on the [OK] button when done.

-- Configure it to use the FLAC encoder
------From the main menu, choose [EAC]
------From the EAC menu, choose [Compression Options]
------On the resulting window, Choose the tab called [External Compression]
------Modify the entries in this screen as per the picture below. The only difference might be the path to the EAC program. Looks like I choose to make a folder under my EAC folder whereas yours was probably different.



-----Click the [OK] button.

((There are hundreds of options that you can play with in many menus to change the way it rips, creates file names, etc. This will get you started.))

-- Turn on the FreeDB service so it gets your album information and track names for you.
-----Click on [EAC] in the main menu.
-----Click on [FreeDB / Database Options]
-----Enter in a valid email it will use for validation. (they sent me no spam so far).
-----Click the button called [Get active FreeDB Server List]
-----Choose a server in the [FreeDB server] dropdown list.
-----Click the [OK] button.

Start Ripping CDs
-- Load a CD into the built in coffee holder.
-- Wait a few seconds for FreeDB service to fill in your track names and such. (Internet connection is required, of course.)
-- From the Main Menu click on [Actions]
-- From the Actions menu, choose [Copy Selected Tracks]
-- From the pop up menu, choose [Compressed]

Note:Compressed FLAC files are still lossless in this case. The amount of compression used simply determines how long it takes to encode it. Files sizes are much bigger than MP3s but much smaller than original .wav files.

-- Select songs for your mixed demo CD to send to fellow Axiomites.


Seem complicated? Winamp is definately simpler but EAC will give you more options and is very reliable. Some people also claim that using the true FLAC encoder in this way gives better results than others like Winamp but if they are both supposed to be creating lossless digital files, should there really be a difference???

I'm betting this scared you off but if not, I hope it helped.


Edited by Murph (07/30/08 04:12 PM)
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#216881 - 07/30/08 05:22 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
ThanksÖ..

No, Iím not too intimidated, YETÖ Iíve printed this off for reference when Iím feeling a wee bit more patient. Iím screwing around with photo blending software right now and Iím about at the my peak frustration level for the day.
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#216884 - 07/30/08 05:38 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
iTunes can be set to rip in a completely automated fashion, to the point of auto-ejecting when complete. If you trust auto-completion of the album and track info (I sure don't -- I found 10-15% in error when I ripped my collection) it can do that on the fly too.

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#216885 - 07/30/08 06:00 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6396
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
 Originally Posted By: anthony11
... to the point of auto-ejecting when complete.


*snicker, snicker ...
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#216888 - 07/30/08 06:15 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: medic8r]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Don't make fun. That can be a big problem for Mac Users. Setting cream laden lattes on the CD tray can wear it down and prevent easy opening.
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#216889 - 07/30/08 06:19 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Don't make fun. That can be a big problem for Mac Users. Setting cream laden lattes on the CD tray can wear it down and prevent easy opening.

There's a joke in there about having a slot-loader but I'm not going there.

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#216895 - 07/30/08 06:41 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Nevertheless, iTunes cannot rip FLAC... but if you're willing to use Apple Lossless (not sure about the compatibility with other devices) it can be one of the least painful ways to go (that autorip/autoeject feature). That's what I did.
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#216897 - 07/30/08 07:05 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
If you don't mind being assimilated...
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#216898 - 07/30/08 07:18 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Excuse me, do you use Windows?

We're all assimilated to some degree or another.

I, myself, am a card carrying member of the Axiom Collective.
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#216900 - 07/30/08 07:41 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
You got a CARD?!?!
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#216901 - 07/30/08 07:49 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
Maybe they sent him one in advance for hitting 10,000 posts ;\)

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#216904 - 07/30/08 08:16 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
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No, you get the card at about, oh (quickly looks at the User List to make sure no one but Peter can prove him wrong).... 8000 posts.
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#216996 - 08/01/08 01:10 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I downloaded EAC from the link Tom provided earlier, or at least I THINK thatís what I downloaded. I now have Express Rip, Express Burn, Switch and Wave Pad Sound Editor on my desk top. They are all ĎNCHĒ software programs. Can anyone verify if I downloaded / installed EAC??

I then downloaded the FLAC software and installed it without any problems.

When I open up Express Rip, there are all the options noted, but it does not ask for a path to the FLAC software. Iíve ripped two CDís so far though, and they do have the .flac extension.

One annoying thing that Iím dealing with so far (with more to come, Iím sure), is for every disk I load to be ripped, I get the error message that the freeDB internet server can not be found. If I go into options and click on a different server button, it will find the album info. The next disk, I have to go back into the menu and click on the other server button. Thereís got to be an easier, more reliable way to get album information than thisÖÖÖThereís no friggin way Iím going to type all that.
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#217030 - 08/01/08 05:39 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Iíll answer my own question.

On the EAC download page, some scoundrel has conveniently place a misleading download option for their own software, which, you can install and try it out. If you like it, you get to buy it after the trial. Dirty buggersÖÖ.

I uninstalled all that crap and found the Ďrealí EAC download and installed it. Iím giving it a try now after configuring it per Murphís excellent instructions he posted earlier.
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#217098 - 08/03/08 12:16 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Iím having a wee bit of a problemÖno surprise thereÖ

The WAV files are there on the hard drive, but there is no FLAC files to be found. I have the options set up to delete WAV files after compression.

Any ideas what I screwed up this time??
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#217101 - 08/03/08 01:06 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
grunt Offline
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
When you ran the setup wizard did you select FLAC or WMA for lossless archiving? It sounds like you might have set it to WMA.
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#217139 - 08/03/08 01:56 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: grunt]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I set it to FLAC.

I think I fixed it, but with a new problem. I just uninstalled EAC and FLAC and installed it again. Now when I rip a CD, on my hard drive is a folder with all the tracks, but they are now I-tunes! I KNOW I didn't select I-tunes....
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#217161 - 08/03/08 09:54 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Maybe this will help:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=EAC_and_Flac

Iím at a loss as to what is happening since everything worked find both times Iíve installed EAC.
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#217181 - 08/04/08 10:38 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: grunt]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
After looking at the files a bit closer, they are in fact FLAC, but for some reason or other, I-tunes has grabbed onto them for playback. I can change that easy enough as soon as I load different FLAC playback software, I hope.

Do you use the Normalize function? Iíd like my CDís to all have the same volume level when playing (as many are recorded at different levels), but Iím a bit concerned that track dynamic range will be killed. Ė Only about 1100 CDís to rip, so Iíd rather do it right, once.
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#217192 - 08/04/08 12:04 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
If it was me, I wouldn't use normalization. I would rely on the playback device for that. I never tried to critically compare normalized files with unadulterated; I'm just paranoid. It just seems like losslessly compressing files only to normalize defeats the purpose.

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#217294 - 08/04/08 09:38 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: CV]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
There are players that will set volume levels for individual files. I think its some sort of external correction file so that the original material is not changed. I know Media Monkey has this feature.
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#217400 - 08/05/08 10:30 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: fredk]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Wow, you had a busy weekend. Sorry I wasn't around to help out. I was in the woods for most of it but I don't look at the board much on weekends anyways.

Now you know why I hate iTunes. It's a control freak.

I don't use normalization either. I can't shake the feeling that it is degrading the SQ a bit. It probably isn't but my mind is more relaxed when I don't use it, so it stays off.

Glad to hear it's all working for you.
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#217402 - 08/05/08 10:42 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
iTunes is a control freak???

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#217404 - 08/05/08 11:00 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Left unchecked, Yes.
Without offering me an option it.
-- Took over default ownership of playing my MP3s.
-- Took over default ownership of playing .flacs, even though it was incapable of playing .flacs.
-- Loaded itself every time I plugged in my MP3 player (not an iPod.)
-- Somehow broke streaming MP3s to my sound system via TVersity. I know this one makes no sense but it all worked again when it was no longer my default player.
-- Keeps telling me I need to update it but insist on including updates of software I don't want bundled with it. I have to manually go to their site to update without the extras.
-- Every song in my Softsqueeze library was showing up twice until I turned off iTunes compatibility.

All these things were easily resolved but it was a big PITA when my wife won a Shuffle at work.

To be fair, it's a great, simple to use solution for most iPod users who only use the one player and nothing else. It just doesn't play nice with the rest of the world.
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#217405 - 08/05/08 11:08 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I bought my kid an I pod Nano a couple years ago. I used my PC for setting it up, then he promptly lost the damn thing. The I-tunes resides on my PC still and constantly irritates me. I uninstalled it once, but had to re-install it to see a video clip I needed to see for a work related thingÖ. Now the stupid software is bugging me again. Itís about every other week that it wants to install a newer version.

Thanks on the normalization info. I wonít use it if the Squeeze Box or Sonos will compensate for audio volume playback. One irritant with CD changers is one song will be normal in volume, then the next is lower, then the next could be higher.

So has anyone figured out how to get EAC to start via CD auto play with Vista?
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#217408 - 08/05/08 11:33 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
I always have autoplay disabled as some CDs came with a copy protection scheme that was invoked upon autoplay. Worst of all were some Sony CDs a bunch of years back that actually infected your PC with some trojan copywrite software. Very sneaky and somewhat underhanded as it wasn't documented until people started finding it.
.
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#217471 - 08/05/08 10:41 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
Asynchronous Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 17
Late to the conversation, but for those that asked about converting from FLAC to mp3, there is a program called foobar2000 (it is a winamp style player) that allows you to do this from a GUI interface. I did this for a boatload of FLACs - open in a window, select all right click, choose convert to mp3, select the quality and then let it run all night. Slick as heck.

I have 2 squeezeboxes, feed them FLACs and use low bitrate mp3s for the car. Am a huge fan of the system.

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#217539 - 08/06/08 03:09 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Asynchronous]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Asynch, does foobar retain the tags (including art) and replicate the folder structure?
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#218016 - 08/14/08 03:57 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
Avi Deshpande Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 157
Loc: SF Bay Area, USA
Murph:

Any idea on extending the solution to do both Audio and Video?
I do music from my Media PC to PS3 and works good..but video has lag.

Any help appreciated

Reg,
Avi
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#218030 - 08/14/08 06:48 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
Lohengrin Offline
buff

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Texas
Well, when I had the Xbox, it did a pretty nice job of "extending" the Media Center from the server. There was the occasional hiccup over wireless but overall I was happy.
I haven't had the opportunity to try other extenders with video, but after 3 days with the Duet, I can say that I will be adding another Squeezebox receiver soon.

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#218081 - 08/15/08 10:40 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Lohengrin]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Avi,

I'm using also TVersity to stream my DVD collection from the same PC as the FLACs & MP3s to the PS3 in my HT room. (Whew, almost as many acronyms as one of my work emails.)

Once it's set up, it works very nicely. It can take just about any audio or video format and convert it on the fly to something that plays nicely with the PS3, no questions asked.

HOWEVER, I only recommend this solution if you are comfortable in installing separate CODECs and such. I took me several evenings of spare time, a lot of reading the TVersity forum and several nerve soothing beers to get it all working properly. Now that it is working, it's golden though.

One big thing to remember is that whatever streaming software you use, you have to store your DVD sized movies on an NTFS formatted hard drive. FAT formatted drives have a 4GB file size limit. Almost all external hard drives are FAT drives so this applies even if you directly hook up an external drive to a PS3. The other option is to compress your movies to less than 4GB, then it is not an issue but you lose some video quality = to the amount of compression you have to do.
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#218093 - 08/15/08 12:44 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
You want acronyms, try reading a book on VMware Virtual Infrastructure. There's one page in this book that's looks pretty much like this

blahblah SAS blah SCSI blah ESX blahblah VI3 blahblah VC blah vNIC blah blah FC SAN blah VCB blah SATA blah TCP/IP blah iSCSI NAS blah

copy and repeat until you fill a page.
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#218115 - 08/15/08 05:21 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
 Quote:
several nerve soothing beers


Mmmm. Beer.

What were you talking about, again?

 Quote:
...you have to store your DVD sized movies on an NTFS formatted hard drive. FAT formatted drives have a 4GB file size limit. Almost all external hard drives are FAT drives...


That's some golden advice, right there. Thank you, Andrew, for saving some poor sap (possibly me) a whole boatload of time and frustration.

Axiom forums FTW!
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#218118 - 08/15/08 05:32 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
 Quote:
One big thing to remember is that whatever streaming software you use, you have to store your DVD sized movies on an NTFS formatted hard drive.

... or an HFS+ filesystem, etc.
 Quote:
FAT formatted drives have a 4GB file size limit. Almost all external hard drives are FAT drives so this applies even if you directly hook up an external drive to a PS3.

Nothing stopping one from putting whatever sort of filesystem is desired on an external drive. You're not limited to the crap that comes from the factory.
 Quote:
The other option is to compress your movies to less than 4GB, then it is not an issue but you lose some video quality = to the amount of compression you have to do.

Yep, it's a tradeoff. I know people who routinely rip DVD's with Handbrake for more compact storage.

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#218125 - 08/15/08 07:25 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
samandnoah Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 320
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Murph
One big thing to remember is that whatever streaming software you use, you have to store your DVD sized movies on an NTFS formatted hard drive. FAT formatted drives have a 4GB file size limit. Almost all external hard drives are FAT drives so this applies even if you directly hook up an external drive to a PS3. The other option is to compress your movies to less than 4GB, then it is not an issue but you lose some video quality = to the amount of compression you have to do.

Murph--
One other caveat, unless I'm misunderstanding, is that the PS3 will only recognize FAT formatted drives. So you can't use an NTFS formatted HDD. Is there some workaround to that limitation so I don't have to compress files to < 4Gb?

Thanks,
Rich

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#218289 - 08/18/08 08:37 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: samandnoah]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Depends Rich,
Are you willing to use your PC to stream the movies to your PS3? That's what I am doing. If you want to plug in an external hard drive to your PS3 to avoid leaving your PC on and to also avoid the complexities of streaming, then yes, I think you are limited to FAT and the 4GB file sizes.
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#223964 - 10/05/08 01:00 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Just a pointless post to piss and moan about transferring CDís to a hard drive. Iím on # 318 with about five hundred to go. This sucksÖÖ.no really, it SUCKS!!!!

I sure hope all this effort using EAC is worth it ÖÖ.. for Tomís sake, seeing how it was his idea. <evil snicker to follow>
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#223965 - 10/05/08 01:04 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
Send him to his room, just in case....
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#223970 - 10/05/08 01:58 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Who in the hell let him out????
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#223973 - 10/05/08 02:07 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Pandora?

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#223998 - 10/05/08 08:50 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: CV]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
Fortunately you only have to do this once... assuming you remember to back up your files when done so you don't ever get stuck doing this again. \:\)

Coming from someone who ripped ~400 CDs about 3 months ago... I feel your pain (or half of it by look of your total count). It'll be worth it when you're done!

Jason
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#224014 - 10/05/08 10:32 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: myrison]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Wha...?

Where am I?
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#224074 - 10/06/08 10:02 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
327.......

I'm just putting them on an external drive right now in FLAC. After I get them all transferred, I was going to buy one of those HP servers and the Sqeezedbox Duet. I figure itíll take me another couple months to get all my CDís transferred at the rate Iím going.
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#224087 - 10/06/08 12:55 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Think of it as a labor of love.
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Jason
-----------------
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#224092 - 10/06/08 02:42 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
It took me a long time, too, Mike. Really, annoyingly, freaking long.

But honestly, I never looked back. Still have one 400 disk changer and can't remember the last time I used it. Wife and kids are much happier, and I listen to whatever I want whenever I want. It's really a superior delivery method.

So, you know, just keep ripping. \:\)
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#224261 - 10/07/08 12:46 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
332......

I just picked up my new truck and it has an input for an external player like an I-pod. I know nothing about these devices. Any suggestions for organizing all these ripped CD's? Any particular IPod I should get?

I'm feeling my age asking these questions. I've avoided digital music for years.....


Edited by mdrew (10/07/08 12:46 PM)
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#224264 - 10/07/08 01:11 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
I just picked up my new truck and it has an input for an external player like an I-pod.

Groovy. I've just been using an iTrip but would be nice to connect directly.
 Quote:
I know nothing about these devices. Any suggestions for organizing all these ripped CD's? Any particular IPod I should get?

That choice is substantially driven by the size of your collection. Would you want to put 10 albums on it, or 1000?

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#224270 - 10/07/08 01:40 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
First off all that ripping you have been doing......you get to do it again into MP3, WMA or AAC(iPod) for the players to recogize it. I do not know of any brand that uses FLAC. If you haven't been turned off by this, then you have to decide how much of your library you want with you at all times, if you can get by with 500-1000 songs then the 4-8gb sizes will work if you want most of your songs then you will need the 80gb or larger, beyond that you are looking at fancy new displays and some new features, etc.
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Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#224271 - 10/07/08 01:46 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Seattle WA
No reason to rip again -- it's straightforward to script generating mp3 out of FLAC.

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#224282 - 10/07/08 02:50 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: anthony11]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Sorry, rip was the wrong word, I should have said convert FLAC to MP3 but it is easier as Anthony mentions by scripting, but still a pain. I have used Winamp for all my ripping to FLAC and then I just have it convert the FLAC file to AAC for my wife's iPod.
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Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#224290 - 10/07/08 03:53 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Just came across this website yesterday showing different types of players that will play flac files.

Here's another link with a couple players that will play lossless music.
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#224291 - 10/07/08 03:54 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
all that ripping you have been doing......you get to do it again into MP3,

I seem to remember Tom posting something about Media Monkey being able to do this on the fly.
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Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#224292 - 10/07/08 04:02 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Here's another link that may interest you. Apparently you can load "Rockbox" firmware onto your iPod which will enable it to playback flac files.
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#224295 - 10/07/08 04:08 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: fredk]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Thanks Cam, I had forgotten about the FLAC site! Although a very quick Google search for a few of those portable players listed shows they are no longer avaialable, except possibly used.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#224297 - 10/07/08 04:17 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
FLAC files are still pretty big.

I used the flac2mp3 script to create a parallel library. Worked for me.

I think the PAY version of MediaMonkey will do the conversion on-the-fly when you sync, but I'm just as happy just keeping two copies since storage is cheap.
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#224306 - 10/07/08 04:41 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Sorry, rip was the wrong word, I should have said convert FLAC to MP3 but it is easier as Anthony mentions by scripting, but still a pain. I have used Winamp for all my ripping to FLAC and then I just have it convert the FLAC file to AAC for my wife's iPod.


This issue was the reason (i.e. laziness was the reason) I didn't end up going to FLAC, plus the fact that I can't hear the difference between a 320 kbps MP3 and a FLAC file. I wish I could though!

Jason
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#224307 - 10/07/08 04:45 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: myrison]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
I can't tell the difference either Jason.



Edited by wheelz999 (10/07/08 05:26 PM)
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#224426 - 10/08/08 08:03 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
DaveG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 868
Loc: WI
They sound the same to me too.
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#224638 - 10/09/08 12:41 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: DaveG]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
I maintain dual library of flac and mp3. However, even if my MP3 player could handle it, the differences in flac files sizes don't make it practical for me.

I bought an 80GB Zune because I couldn't stand trying to figure out what I would delete in order to make room for new music. It's half full now of MP3s and just a few select photos. (I'm not a fan of tiny screen video, so none of those yet.) If I had gone with FLAC, I'd just be in the same boat again having to delete stuff all the time.


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#224748 - 10/10/08 09:55 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
The Zune player was a great choice, I love mine. Here's a couple links for you to check your, which are accessories for virtually any player, both of which I have. I would seriously recommend the screen protector, the decal is just for personalization but it does offer some protection from scratches.

javoedge

Although not on a Zune player, the video below will give you an idea on how to install it.
javoedge installation

Decalgirl.com also has decals for the PS3 and Xbox 360 etc.
Decal girl
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#224751 - 10/10/08 10:48 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Thanks. You must have read my mind. I'm seriously loving the Zune and my only complaint was the serious screen glare.

Didn't think I'd like the social aspect but me and another fella here at work have been wirelessly trading tunes like crazy, exploring bands we might not otherwise take the time to do.
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#224764 - 10/10/08 12:01 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Murph]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I've bought lots of stuff from DecalGirl.com and am very satisfied.
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#235187 - 12/16/08 01:35 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
121 to go......

Almost time to celebrate.

I am now going to order a media server to pair up with the Squeeze Box. The only one I'm aware of is the HP. Anyone know of another server I should look at??
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#235190 - 12/16/08 01:40 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
I have an HP media server and it is very good and pretty easy to setup and forget about it.
Keep in mind that, for the Squeeze Center, you will have to use Remote Desktop to install it on the server.
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E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
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#235202 - 12/16/08 02:19 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: EFalardeau]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Remote Desktop??? What the heck is that?
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#235203 - 12/16/08 02:28 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
Remote Desktop??? What the heck is that?

Are you being facetious or is it a real question?
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E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#235205 - 12/16/08 02:50 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
 Originally Posted By: mdrew


I am now going to order a media server to pair up with the Squeeze Box. The only one I'm aware of is the HP. Anyone know of another server I should look at??


Here are some others to consider. link It all depends on your budget, but the Mvix MX-780HD is pretty slick. Here's a link to their website.
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#235214 - 12/16/08 03:52 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: EFalardeau]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
No, it's a real question. I am the board PC and software idiot, and I'm OK with that. Do not be afraid of talking down to me.
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#235244 - 12/16/08 05:56 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
Hey... I still get to be the networking Idiot, don't I...Huh? Don't I?
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#235259 - 12/16/08 06:48 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
No problemo. It just sounded like a sarcastic remark.
As for Remote Desktop, it is just a set of protocols and tools used to remotely access a computer like if it was in front of you.

Since the HP Media Server does not come with a monitor or keyboard, it is normally accessible through a supplied software called "Media Server Console" running from your other computers. That console allows you to install, uninstall and configure software that is considered "part of the HP offering".

In order to install "non-officially supported software", you need to access the HP Media Server like if you were physically connected to it. The software to do that under Windows is called "Remote Desktop". (which I am currently using from an old laptop to type this post remotely on my desktop).
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E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#235276 - 12/16/08 08:24 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: EFalardeau]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
Look up GoToMyPC for a commercialized version of the concept of remote desktop.
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#235277 - 12/16/08 08:28 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: myrison]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Not just commercialized -- GoToMyPC lets you access any of your computers from anywhere in the world. With Remote Desktop you need to wither be on the same network or have another way of getting into your remote networks.
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#235289 - 12/16/08 08:47 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: pmbuko]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
With Remote Desktop you need to wither be on the same network or have another way of getting into your remote networks.

I use Hamachi coupled with Ultra VNC.
Works great.
Right through routers and firewalls (after permissions).
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#235317 - 12/16/08 09:49 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: chesseroo]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Great. Now I'm thinking of sushi.
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#235387 - 12/17/08 10:00 AM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: EFalardeau]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
No problemo. It just sounded like a sarcastic remark.
As for Remote Desktop, it is just a set of protocols and tools used to remotely access a computer like if it was in front of you.

Since the HP Media Server does not come with a monitor or keyboard, it is normally accessible through a supplied software called "Media Server Console" running from your other computers. That console allows you to install, uninstall and configure software that is considered "part of the HP offering".

In order to install "non-officially supported software", you need to access the HP Media Server like if you were physically connected to it. The software to do that under Windows is called "Remote Desktop". (which I am currently using from an old laptop to type this post remotely on my desktop).


Thank you.

I am a smart ass, but when I am, it's blatant and you wonít have to wonder. Not as much as Peter, but close.
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#237479 - 12/31/08 01:30 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
Finally!!!! The agony is over! 945 CDís later, theyíre all on a 500 gig external hard drive. I just ordered a Squeeze Box Duet and the HP MediaSmart Server EX475. I also got a 120 gig I-POD for my truck as a Christmas present.

When these new toys show up in a week or so, Iíll start messing with the music files. Before I start, does anyone have any words of wisdom for me?? This is my first go with music filesÖÖ Iím a wee bit nervous, seeing how much effort ripping all these CDís took.

Iím not real sure what in the heck is going on, but all the music files that I ripped with EAC show up as I-tunes FLAC files in the External Driveís explorer folder. Is this a problem?
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#237484 - 12/31/08 02:25 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
 Originally Posted By: mdrew

Iím not real sure what in the heck is going on, but all the music files that I ripped with EAC show up as I-tunes FLAC files in the External Driveís explorer folder. Is this a problem?


Run, Mike! RUN!!! It's GONNA BLOW!!!!

I figured since everything else in your setup eventually catches fire, why not each of your files?

OK, seriously, I have nothing of value to offer.
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#237486 - 12/31/08 02:30 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
That's not a problem; it's just that the computer believes iTunes owns the FLAC files. As long as they've got the right file extension, you should be fine.
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#237488 - 12/31/08 02:46 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: Ken.C]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10900
Loc: Central NH
You did all that work and now iTunes insists IT owns the files? This music copyright thing has gone too far!

Mike, I would throw that hard drive right into the fireplace!!!
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#237490 - 12/31/08 02:50 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
It's not a problem. iTunes is just set as the default handler for the flac file type.
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"I wish I had documented moreÖ" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#237494 - 12/31/08 03:05 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: michael_d]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
I assume that you heard that a new FLAC v3.5 format just came out? Supposedly it absolutely blows the sound quality of earlier FLAC files out of the water (in early testing, 95% of people were able to immediately identify the higher quality of the new format).

The only downside is that you have to rerip all of your discs into this new format. Too bad you just got done.





































Just kidding, congrats on completing the disc ripping saga! \:D

Jason
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Epic 80-800: HG Cherry | HT Pics

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#237508 - 12/31/08 03:36 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: myrison]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Now to back up that exteranl to another external so you don't have to do it all over again.

When did itunes start to recognize FLAC files?
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#237708 - 01/01/09 04:17 PM Re: Lossless CD digital media storage ideas?? [Re: jakewash]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
You guys crack me up...

You almost had me going there Jason.
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