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#219759 - 09/03/08 12:01 AM Receiver to make M60s sound good?
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
I've had my M60s for a couple of months now along with VP100. I use a Denon 3808 as I've seen a lot of posts say that it matches well with the M60. I used Audyssey to set the levels. I've seen posts that say that the M60s can be somewhat bright so a receiver like the Denon 3808 would avoid that. I do have a couple of SACDs that sound pretty good but the hundreds of CDs and 1000's of mp3s I have are just not pleasant to listen to. When volumes go up the shrillness/brightness is so bad that I can only listen for a couple of minutes. I've tried running on direct with no auto equalization adjustment and every other way. I thought they would "break in" after a few weeks but no luck. I've read that they "play what is there so if your recording is bad then the sound will be bad". I can understand that to a point but my previous speakers (less expensive) didn't make recordings that weren't perfect sound so bad. I have friends over several times a year and after a few adult beverages and I'm playing good music I get the "turn it up" scream and in the past I would and the party would crank up a notch but now I'm afraid when someone wants to turn it up everyone will start screaming "turn it down"! Is it the Denon or should I just resign myself to the fact that I made a wrong choice and probably should have returned them within the 30 days?
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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#219761 - 09/03/08 12:18 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10389
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
It's the source material, as you have said you have found some SACD's that sound pretty good. I have burned all my music in flac and stream them to my 3808 and only the poorly recorded cds now still play badly. MP3s and Axiom M22/M60/M80 do not get along very well. What bit rate are you MP3s? I try to keep everything that I haven't ripped from cds, to at least 256k to keep the sound quality as close to original as possible.

I do know Axiom has for some owners, sent out resistors for the tweeters to tame some shrillness. They are very easy to install, maybe try giving them a call to see if you can get some, it may help.
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Jason
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#219762 - 09/03/08 12:21 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10304
Bobby, the 3808 and the other receivers simply amplify the voltages that come in from the source materials; when set flat they certainly don't in any way reduce any "shrillness" that may be present in some of that material. Neither do accurate speakers such as the M60s degrade their own quality by making the shrillness less audible. The usual way to partially compensate for poor material is to turn the treble tone control on the receiver down a bit.

You may have heard these comments before, but there's no good reason to change them, since they're still true.
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#219763 - 09/03/08 12:23 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: jakewash]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: jakewash
It's the source material, as you have said you have found some SACD's that sound pretty good. I have burned all my music in flac and stream them to my 3808 and only the poorly recorded cds now still play badly. MP3s and Axiom M22/M60/M80 do not get along very well. What bit rate are you MP3s? I try to keep everything that I haven't ripped from cds, to at least 256k to keep the sound quality as close to original as possible.

I do know Axiom has for some owners, sent out resistors for the tweeters to tame some shrillness. They are very easy to install, maybe try giving them a call to see if you can get some, it may help.


I have most of my mp3s at 256k and above. How do you get flac to play on the 3808. When I put flac files in a directory to stream from my computer/NAS or whatever they don't show up, only mp3s and I think wav shows up also. I posted on another site in the 3808 thread about streaming flac files but no one responded.
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#219764 - 09/03/08 12:33 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: JohnK]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Bobby, the 3808 and the other receivers simply amplify the voltages that come in from the source materials; when set flat they certainly don't in any way reduce any "shrillness" that may be present in some of that material. Neither do accurate speakers such as the M60s degrade their own quality by making the shrillness less audible. The usual way to partially compensate for poor material is to turn the treble tone control on the receiver down a bit.

You may have heard these comments before, but there's no good reason to change them, since they're still true.


Thanks for the comments. I have several SACDs that reviewers have voted as great recordings, reference level recordings and many of those sound harsh. I guess I'll re-hookup my Atlantic Technology speakers and do a side by side test. They are 2 way speakers and shouldn't sound near as good as the M60s but I'm afraid that they will \:\( I may try what jakewash suggested and call Axiom to see if they have resistors that address that problem.
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#219768 - 09/03/08 05:22 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10389
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: edmondwolfman

I have most of my mp3s at 256k and above. How do you get flac to play on the 3808. When I put flac files in a directory to stream from my computer/NAS or whatever they don't show up, only mp3s and I think wav shows up also. I posted on another site in the 3808 thread about streaming flac files but no one responded.
I used Winamp to rip my files onto my Linksys NAS200 and the linksys sets up a network ready music file that all my PC'c can find instantly when connected to the netowrk. I will guess the settings the NAS is using is allowing me to stream without any thought about any other needs. I will guess the folder in which you have all the music saved needs to be shared on the network. The 3808 has its own system to find the files on the network. I really haven't thought about what is going on too technically, all I know is that it works great for me. I guess I should look deeper one day.

I am curious what sort of DB levels are you listening at? I only find the M80s becoming shrill at extreme levels, about 100db and up. Have you run the Audyssey setup and then made your own adjustments to the EQ to suit your tastes, basically as John said, a treble adjustment. It could be something that Audyssey is doing to the EQ due to something it is noticing in the room setup. Have you tried the system with no Audyssey used at all, is it still shrill? Latest updates done on the 3808?

_________________________
Jason
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My HT

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#219772 - 09/03/08 07:44 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: jakewash]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4840
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
the 3808 supports flac files natively. I am not sure why they aren't showing up...

Try plugging a usb drive of somesort into the denon with a flac file on it and see fi it plays... if so then the problem must be with the network.

Can you list some albums you think sound bad? thanks.
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#219773 - 09/03/08 07:56 AM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: terzaghi]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10665
Loc: Central NH
Random thoughts:

**I'm wondering if all drivers are firing or if there's a bass-management problem... dropping the bass and making the speakers sound bright.

**What types of music do you listen to?

**If your MP3s are 256k and above, they're likely fine unless poorly compressed...

**Do you have a bright (barren, with hard surfaces) room?
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#219782 - 09/03/08 12:37 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 6951
Loc: Canada
The M60 is actually a little more laid back than the M80.

I can accept that some find Axioms offerings bright, but not harsh. There is something else at play here.

Can you give us the titles and labels for the reference recordings you find harsh? Can you also describe the room they are set up in? Are you in an apartment or a house? Lots of windows? Do you have wall coverings or are the walls bare...
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#219788 - 09/03/08 12:58 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: fredk]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10389
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Some people do find Axioms harsh at high SPL, from some of the knocks against them on the web. Just as I find anything that is not as forward as Axiom to sound muffled. I don't like the M3 because of this.

I do agree that it does sound like there might be something else at play, maybe even a bad crossover/tweeter? Then again the OP states some cds sound good.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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