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#223806 - 10/04/08 11:07 AM $800-1,000 CD player?
bluray Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 88
Out in a week or two: Marantz SA8003 (two channel SACD)
OR
Released a couple of months ago: Arcam CD17 (Redbook only)

I expect I will soon buy one of these models. I don't own any SACDs and don't plan to seek them out per se. I also have the original 60G PS3 that can play SACDs if I'm ever so inclined (by the way, what a BD player it is!!). I cannot find any evidence that Marantz's 8001 model had any compromise on Redbook sources. Spec-wise, the 8003 is beyond reproach in terms of DAC, transport, power, build quality. The CD17 is Arcam's latest Redbook player, with the stout Full Metal Jacket chassis and top DAC. Of course, I'm looking for your opinions not based on these exact models but past Arcam and Marantz experience/knowledge. And no, I don't want a universal player (Oppo's or anyone else's). I'm looking for a unit that I will at times listen to "critically" and will hope to feel like I'm close to the old vinyl sound (minus the hisses, pops, cleaning rituals)--what we all want sonically. Thanks in advance.

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#223812 - 10/04/08 11:20 AM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: bluray]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Is there any reason why you feel like you need to pay that kind of money for a CD player?

I don't even use a CD player, just stream all my music as a FLAC file over my network to my denon 3808. Once in a while I do pop in a CD, and then I just use my HD-DVD player, my xbox360, or my PS3
_________________________
-David

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#223813 - 10/04/08 11:22 AM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: terzaghi]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17791
Loc: NoVA
I don't believe you will find a whit of differece between those players and the sound out from your SACD player. If you want a softer, more rolled off high end, you might have better luck looking at a tubed CD player, such as the Ah! Noe Tjoeb (or however it's spelled). That at least has a better chance of sounding different than players that almost undoubtedly use the same components as $50 or $100 units.


Edited by kcarlile (10/04/08 11:22 AM)
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#223843 - 10/04/08 03:43 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: terzaghi]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4032
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
 Originally Posted By: terzaghi


I don't even use a CD player, just stream all my music as a FLAC file over my network to my denon 3808.


Do you have a squeezebox? I was checking them out yesterday, specifically the squeezebox duet. I bought an A/V kit for my Zune player which has all my music from my computer on it but I'm not all that happy with it because the volume on my Denon has to be turned up extremely high, around the 0 mark to get close to listening levels and I'm afraid that I'm going to shut everything down one day after using my Zune and then start it up and again in CD mode and blow my brains out, or my amplifier. The benefit of the Zune player is that I can play video, although lower quality.

I was wondering how the squeezebox duet would work with my 3808. If I hook the box to my computer, would it stream the audio directly to my 3808 without another connection, or would I need another squeezebox hooked up to my receiver?

Thanks
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#223848 - 10/04/08 04:06 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Wheelz, I do not have a squeezebox. I use TVersity media server to stream the FLAC files from my PC and I use the Net/USB feature on the 3808 to select the files and play in my living room. I have a linksys wireles gaming adapter that essentially converts my ethernet port on my 3808 to a wireless connection.
_________________________
-David

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#223849 - 10/04/08 04:15 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4032
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Oh, to comment on the original post so I'm not hijacking this thread :)I believe Alan wrote/posted regarding CD players and I think he said that he's never found and audible difference between a high priced player and a lower priced one. In it (which I will post if I find it) he mentions that he has the same Sony 300 disc CD player($300) as myself and he is more than happy with it.

A CD carousel and a player like the squeezebox would be a cheaper and better alternative, although redundant if you load everything onto your computer.
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#223854 - 10/04/08 04:30 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4032
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Well I looked high and low for the post that I thought was made by Alan but I can't find it, so don't take my word for it. I don't want to misquote him.
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#223897 - 10/04/08 10:13 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: bluray]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10406
Blu, it appears that the stated objectives aren't realistic in light of the facts of modern audio technology. While I have(mostly)fond memories of playing LPs, and it's remarkable that the relatively grungy technology was able to do even as well as it did, it's simply obsolescent technology now and can't reproduce the analog waveforms of music with the accuracy that's routine with modern digital discs and players. So, nostalgia for the "old vinyl sound" is nice, but shouldn't replace reality.

As to CD players, they reached the point some time ago where even moderately-priced units(say $100)reproduce CDs with audibly flat 20-20KHz response and with noise and distortion well below the audible level. Nothing more is possible. This is also true of the CD/DVD players since they use dual frequency lasers, 780nm being optimal for reproducing CDs and 650nm for regular DVDs. Any competently designed units, including those that you mention, will play a CD so that it sounds like a CD, not an LP. The difference is price, and paying $800-$1000 doesn't appear to be cost-effective.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#223945 - 10/05/08 12:03 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: JohnK]
DaveG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 868
Loc: WI
The only reason I can think of to make this type of a purchase is to try impress people with how high end the equipment is.
_________________________
Dave

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#223946 - 10/05/08 12:05 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: JohnK]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
So, nostalgia for the "old vinyl sound" is nice, but shouldn't replace reality.

Unless the reality is that you like that sound. Not everyone seeks accuracy as the holy grail of sound quality.

 Originally Posted By: JohnK
The difference is price, and paying $800-$1000 doesn't appear to be cost-effective.


But if you are partial to a particular aesthetic you have to pay for the looks:


_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#223955 - 10/05/08 12:32 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: chesseroo]
bluray Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 88
[/quote]
But if you are partial to a particular aesthetic you have to pay for the looks[/quote]

Thanks so much for all of the insights. I have to say that the conversation is so focused on functionality that one might think no one in this community ever paid extra for a custom speaker finish! Either of the players I mentioned in my question would provide me some enjoyment beyond the sound. I'm into the gear itself to be sure. Understand that I get enormous pleasure (keep your wisecracks in check -- I can just see a "fondling" response coming!) from using my Contax cameras and Zeiss lenses. It's a matter of a super end product and great mechanical "things." I also want to say that I don't have money to burn. Not at all. Sometimes "gear lust" can be sensible over the long term. In the case of my photography equipment, everything works like it did the day I got it. All of that being said, beating up on me may have worked to save me $650! Thanks. I'm thinking that I would be more than satisfied with the Marantz CD5003, a new Redbook player announced along with the SA8003:
CD5003 * * NEW * * Single Disc CD Player | $349.99
Want elegant proof that Marantz has never forgotten the audiophile? Just take a look at the CD5003 single disc CD player. It delivers that signature Marantz combination of superb audio performance, refined cosmetics, and surprising flexibility. With circuitry refinements and parts selection directly traceable to our Reference Series and convenience features that make it ideal for both playing and learning music, the CD5003 is all you need to fully appreciate your favorite artists.
Sophisticated new aluminum/reinforced resin front panel
Analog audio circuits featuring HDAM®-SA2
High performance Cirrus Logic stereo D/A converter
Current-buffered headphone output
Audio EX mode for super-quiet performance
MP3/WMA playback capability
Variable pitch control
Adjustable Quick Replay
CD-Text, MP3/WMA tag data display
Independent gold plated analog output jacks

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#223959 - 10/05/08 12:40 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: bluray]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17791
Loc: NoVA
Hey, you want the sexy player, I can understand that. \:\)
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#223960 - 10/05/08 12:49 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: Ken.C]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I understand completely, between my cd player (Sony C222ES) and digital to analog converter (MSB Link Dac 3) I have a good sum rapped up in what I think is a very good sounding front end.

Get what you want, wanting it is all that is needed for getting a player that pleases you.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#223979 - 10/05/08 03:01 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: bluray]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: bluray
from using my Contax cameras and Zeiss lenses. It's a matter of a super end product and great mechanical "things."
It's just that the camera products have a proven superior quality to them with the final product - the picture ie. less grain, better clarity etc., where as cd players simply transfer 1's and 0's to the receiver nothing more or less. The cheapest of cd players should be doing this the same way as the more expensive ones, albeit with less style and most likely parts that will die within a year or 2, it makes it hard for the average guy to spend $300-500 for a cd player, but as stated, you have to pay for the style.

Now I am guessing if you are to be sending the signal to a tube amp then the DAC's of the player come into question and you will be paying for the better DAC inside the player.

This has me thinking...how much of a difference does the D/A converter make to the quality of sound? Is this where the cost of the higher end players comes in?
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#224003 - 10/05/08 10:05 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: jakewash]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10406
Jason, modern DACs, as Alan has explained on several occasions, have represented a mature technology for a considerable period of time. The small measurable differences that exist within the offerings of the several manufacturers don't result in an audible difference, since even the typical chips(available to manufacturers in quantity for $1 or less each)near the lower end of their lines have dynamic range and related specs that are more than sufficient for the source material available and for human ears.

Outdated concepts such as agonizing over which DAC is better, or still creating a mystique in the name "Burr-Brown"(a division of Texas Instruments for almost ten years now)still abound in some discussions, of course, but there's no longer technological justification for them.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#224007 - 10/05/08 10:10 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
That was what I suspected but I thought I would ask, Thanks John.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#224051 - 10/06/08 02:27 AM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: DaveG]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Well, that's a pretty ugly CDP you've got there Chess.

I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that all CDPs sound the same. I've heard some dedicated transports and outboard DACs which sound pretty terrific. I like the sound from the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output CDP. The Marantz universal players have been very favorably reviewed as have the Oppo 983H ($399) and the $169 Oppo 980H, Sony SCD-CE595, Onkyo DX-7555, and, of course, the Sony Playstation PS1. The prices for these super performing CD players range from $30 (used) to about $1000.

However, if it's good looks as well as good sound you're listening out for, try the Shanling.


_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#224098 - 10/06/08 05:58 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: 2x6spds]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
That Shanling looks neat as heck, if I *had* the 2k bucks to lay down on one, I'd probably do it.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#224100 - 10/06/08 06:27 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: RickF]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.


Hmmm, new cd player @ 2K or a real nice smoker. It seems like a coin toss to me \:\)
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#224102 - 10/06/08 06:43 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: Wid]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
I don't know about that one Rick, the 'F' Foundation's chief finance officer may have something to say about that, probably something very similar to ... "I don't *think* so big fella."

I can't complain though, she has steered me straight for 27 years (in 4 days...and I remembered!).
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#224106 - 10/06/08 07:00 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: RickF]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Right guys, but the Shanling has a flux capacitor and I believe will rub your leg.




_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#224108 - 10/06/08 07:03 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: 2x6spds]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
That's a neat looking unit, I can be flux capacitated. \:\)
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#224110 - 10/06/08 08:04 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: RickF]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Well, that's much better than being reptile incapacitated. Good on ya. Capacitated! The missus must be happy about that.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#224112 - 10/06/08 08:44 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: 2x6spds]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Forgot my smiley face. Sorry. \:\)
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#224116 - 10/06/08 08:54 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: 2x6spds]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Yup, it is purdy, not practical for me, but my kids would be mesmerized..... hmmmmm, I wonder if I could get it past the wife as a new electronic babysitter.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#224620 - 10/09/08 11:00 AM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: jakewash]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6865
Loc: PEI, Canada
I'm late but in regards to your Squeezebox question. Without sticking a meter on it, it is impossible to tell how strong it's outputs are compared to another device because it has it's own volume control.

However, it seems to feed my receiver just fine. I leave the receiver volume at the same place as where it would be for the CD player (Toshiba DVD) and adjust volume with the Squeezebox remote. To get about the same loudness that I play my CDs at (in my big vaulted living room and attached kitchen) the SqB remote gets set to about 35/100 for moderate and 45/100 for extra loud.

Not scientific because I don't know the baseline but seems to imply it has lots of room for more, compared to the CD player.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#224627 - 10/09/08 12:06 PM Re: $800-1,000 CD player? [Re: jakewash]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You mean besides the TV or a DS Lite?
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