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#237179 - 12/29/08 11:06 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: Adrian]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi,

See my post in the related thread "Denon 988 and M80's". I don't want to duplicate posts.

Regards,
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#237630 - 01/01/09 01:14 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: alan]
BoB/335 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 505
I am hoping some here might venture over to this site and read down page 173 to read some comments on powering M80's and please feel free to comment.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630450&page=173

post #1569 on down


Edited by BoB/335 (01/01/09 01:15 AM)

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#237633 - 01/01/09 01:19 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: BoB/335]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
I think the real question here, Bob, is how big your room is and how loud are you going to play them? I use my M80s in a 20x19 room (with open doorways to the kitchen and hallway), and I run them on an H/K 525, which is a 75Wpc 7.1 receiver. However, I rarely exceed 80dB, more often I'm in the 70dB range. I've never had the receiver enter protect, and it's never sounded strained.

On the other hand, buying a receiver without pre-outs doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's always nice to have the option to upgrade.

BTW, you don't need to worry about the dual tweeters/dual mids thing. It's a design decision on the part of Axiom to improve power handling (Axiom tests them with 1kW amps or something absurd like that), and I can't say I've ever noticed anything untoward in the treble from my M80s.
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#237635 - 01/01/09 01:26 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: BoB/335]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Ya, the boys over on AVS seem to have this idea that 4ohm speakers NEED huge power, they don't, they only require good amperage from the power supply, while this does eliminate many HTiB and low power amps, most quality manufacturers, Denon, S/N, Nad, etc., seem to be able to drive 4 ohm loads, at least M80s, through out their entire line ups. AS I have mentioned many times, I ran my M80s with my lower end Denon 1804 and it sounded as good as the 3808 does, it never shut down and I was able to hit 100dbs with the lowly Denon/M80 combo.


Edited by jakewash (01/01/09 01:27 AM)
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#237636 - 01/01/09 01:28 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
Bob, what is your concern? The m80's are a very easy to drive 4 ohm speaker that do not dip below 4ohms across the frequency range. They are also very efficient, only requiring 1 watt for 95dB's at 3ft distance. Not sure what your concerns are...

In regards to 2 tweeters/2 midrange, that is not an issue either for most people, at least the ones that want what they are hearing to be true to the source. If you want a "laid back" or "muffled" sound speaker, Axiom is not for you.

Maybe you should consider m60's, they filled my 900 sq ft room fine before I got the m80's
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#237638 - 01/01/09 01:33 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: BoB/335]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10359
Bob, took a look and my impression is that some of the posters there, Krunch in particular, don't show an awareness of how amplification works. A "moderate" level with the M80s uses 1 watt or a bit less. It's total nonsense to throw out comments like that about the 2309.
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#237639 - 01/01/09 01:35 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: SirQuack]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Yes the dual tweeters and midrange is a somewhat unusal configuration but so is the B&W tweeter mounted on top of the speaker and the Nautilus series with its unusal designs. The idea behind the dual mids is that the cone surface area is the same as a much larger driver ala Paradigms 7" mid range, only the dual 5.25's are able to move a little faster as there is less mass to move, they also require less energy to move them. This is no different of a philosophy than the multiple woofers almost everyones uses in floor standers. As far as the dual tweeters, I think they just add more detail, makes it easier to hear that upper end, that is usually covered up by the larger sound of the other multiple drivers it has.
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#237663 - 01/01/09 07:46 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: jakewash]
BoB/335 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 505
Hi Everyone,

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Although I don't have any recent experience in home stereo, I managed to put something pretty sweet together back in the day AND we didn't have computer forums back then. I enjoy these discussions immensely!

I believe I may have stated (or maybe in another forum) I play guitar for a long time and did a LOT of research in more recent years and bought a fairly high quality PA System for a band situation (that seems to have such a hard time getting off the ground)

See http://www.myspace.com/themilestoneband

Anyway, I happen to understand, somewhat, about ohm matching as well as some forgiveness in exact matching in some instances. Any amp will work optimally when matched with a speaker ohm load and most amps WILL run above their normal operating temperatures when run outside of their recommended speaker load. My concerns happen to be valid. I have mentioned that I have already discussed this with Denon Tech Support and well as having all of the real world experience of so many of you and I appreciate all the patience. I already knew some what some of your responses to that other forum's posts would be. My question over there was for a direct comparison in a side by side review (hopefully unbiased)

I also understand speaker efficiency. ANY speaker that can be pushed with a minumum of 10 watts and a maximum of 400 watts speaks for itself. I have NO DOUBT that a 100 watt per channel amp will have NO PROBLEM pushing these speakers to a very impressive yet comfortable volume. (I'm not a kid in a R&R band anymore \:\)

I remember when I auditioned my ADS L810's 26 years ago. Subs were coming on the seen a bit but it was a known fact back then that a bigger woofer produced more bass. Having a speaker with 2-8" speakers produce better bass than the single 12" woofer didn't make sense. I understood that the 8's would react quicker. I was made to understand that with music reproduction that you would want a more natural sounding bass vs. a boomier bottom. The M60's more probably be a better fit estically as well as the room size that I plan to put them in. Athough the ADS speakers I had sounded great in the store and sounded great in my house, I always felt that they could have used more bottom end. I would prefer not to get that bottom for music through a sub especially HT subs that strive to get that house shaking rumble. (And I sure do WANT a sub down the road that will do a decent job rumbling my house for movies) All of the reviews and first hand experience tells me to go for the M80's for the bass response. It would be great to hear the M60's and M80's side by side but I feel I already know who would be the clear winner.
I do actually have a concern with the speaker placement in this room. The TV is caddy-corner and the back of the left speaker will be against the wall. The balance should come with the right speaker having no wall behind it for 10 feet. It certainly is far from ideal. At this point in my life I only want to buy one more time.

So sorry for the long post. I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for taking the time to answer me as well as so many others who come here.

PS. I had no idea that my receiver didn't have pre-outs. I will look into that.


Edited by BoB/335 (01/01/09 07:48 AM)

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#237665 - 01/01/09 07:58 AM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: BoB/335]
BoB/335 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 505
I could be wrong but it is my understanding that every test is performed using 1 watt. I believe it is an industry standard. I believe that the idea is how many db's and what spl and at what total harmonic distortion is a speaker while using 1 watt to produce sound. The higher the db rating at 1 watt, the more efficient the speaker and the less power you nees to drive it. There should be an industry standard for a THD percentage to create an even playing field for power ratings.

If that is right, some of you need to aquire a better understanding of the 1 watt thing from some of the answers. If the above is wrong, maybe someone could point us all to a good article explaing 1 watt testing.

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#237710 - 01/01/09 04:22 PM Re: Amp advice + M80s [Re: BoB/335]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
That would be for the speaker efficiency ratings, they are done at 1W/1M away. so 92db rating is it plays at 92 db with 1 watt measured 1 meter away.
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-----------------
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