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#253753 - 03/25/09 11:31 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: michael_d]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Yeah, you don't need speaker cloth for bass traps, or first reflection panels for that matter. As Ethan always said, if you can blow through it with your breath and feel it on the other side with your hands it will work. Many people use even burlap material for bass traps. Bass freq's go right through. I would not pay extra for speaker grill material, JoAnns or even places like Walmart should have some black stretchy material much cheaper.
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#253775 - 03/26/09 03:25 AM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: SirQuack]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
Have any of you guys checked out Ethan's bio? The guy is quite amazing. He was a programmer who ran his own company, took up the chello (I think) in his 30s or 40s and became a professional musician and now runs a company making acoustic treatments.
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#253843 - 03/26/09 04:23 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: fredk]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3903
Loc: Up yonder
What's the simplest way to do a quick before / after sweep? I see where a lot of folks on this board post before / after trends.

I'm assuming that I download and install Real Traps. It looks as if I use my RS digital meter.

Yes, I'm being lazy. I start reading and get glossy eyed. I’m looking for a real simple, step by step cheat sheet of sorts.
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#253880 - 03/26/09 08:09 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: michael_d]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
REW is the best way to do sweeps, once you get it set up. Its not that complicated, but there is a learning curve.

Hauling traps around is always fun...
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Fred

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#253943 - 03/27/09 10:56 AM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: michael_d]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
This is getting complicated. The more I read on Ethan’s page, the more confused I get. My lil project is on hold till I can figure this crap out a bit better. I’m not even sure I can use the fabric I bought. Ethan says you should be able to blow threw the fabric with relative ease. The stuff I bought takes effort. So if I use it, it will reflect high frequencies. Not sure if I want that to happen, it doesn’t sound good.
There’s deep bass, mid bass, high bass, mid-high frequencies. All require different trap building techniques.

I had an interesting (to me!) experience at an NBA game on Wednesday. Sitting in the nosebleed section, I was able to see the speaker array used, up close. To my surprise, it was not of the normal rock band size. Not small, but not what I remember from Van Halen or Metalica concerts. But, even in this massive open and hard sided arena, the bass at my seat was solid as a brick to the gut (call it bowel shaking ), with no thunder decay or muddiness at all. The more I paid attention, I was surprised that the music was very solid and clear, the announcer’s voice was clear, and there was no echo at all, despite the cavern of cement under a steel roof.

So I started to look for the acoustic secret – and I found it. First, human flesh. There was lots of it. But more importantly, I think, from the ceiling they had large rubber mats, suspended in a weak U shape. Lots of them. That was all I could see after close scrutiny. That got me thinking about some of our discussions here about the need to be able to blow through the material, the depth of insulation, etc. Relatedly, it reminded me of the well accepted use of sound deadening material on the auto side.

I know “those bass heads” have nothing offer true audiophiles (even if half the people on this thread have more subwoofers than 80% of those "mobile" bastards), but I have used several products to kill the road noise in my SUV, with exceptional results. Those products, like the rubber mats at the arena, use a rubber or tar based membrane to convert sound energy to heat. These products are less than a quarter of an inch thick, and the rubber mats at the arena were no more than an inch thick (and about 3 feet wide).

Why then, in the more heady home audiophile realm, are we constantly talking about compressed fiberglass 12 inches thick to kill a bass note or stop an echo? Has anyone seen a study of the acoustic properties of thin rubber and tar membrane products as compared to fiberglass? Please give us your thoughts on this, as we could all benefit from a half-inch solution to a 12 inch problem. . . that did not come out right. \:o

Below are a few cites I have used to learn a bit about the tar based products for anyone interested: Tech Talk Jay Leno uses it
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#253987 - 03/27/09 04:58 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: fredk]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
 Originally Posted By: fredk
REW is the best way to do sweeps, once you get it set up. Its not that complicated, but there is a learning curve.


What is "REW" ? Can someone (not too) briefly explain the process and what is needed to get this graph info? Does this process give you a graph, or just individual data points you manually put onto a graph? I assume you need a laptop (not Mac), a RS SPL meter and this 'REW'.
(working to abolish [my] ignorance.;o)
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Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#253988 - 03/27/09 05:05 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: davekro]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Jason
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#253993 - 03/27/09 05:39 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: jakewash]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3903
Loc: Up yonder
You might find reading through the REW user guide to be more helpful than wading into those forums. I found the forums to be for advanced users who actually knew what the heck they are doing.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/wizardhelp/help_en-GB/html/gettingstarted.html#top

I don't think I'm going to mess with it. My laptop doesn't have enough memory or a good enough sound card......or so I think.



Edited by mdrew (03/27/09 05:41 PM)
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#254006 - 03/27/09 09:13 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: michael_d]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
I used to use REW, but have had issues getting the sound card setup, using the REW interface is not exactly for newbies, and the SPL meter is not really a great Mic.

I recently came across this Frequency Response Plotter which seems to do an awesome job, and is very easy to use. Yes, I've been graphing again, and have some very impressive results. Oh yeah, and I've found that using my Mic that came with my Denon does a better job than my SPL meter as a mic, seems more accurate.


_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#254015 - 03/27/09 10:16 PM Re: I need some help with room analysis and treatment… [Re: SirQuack]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
But the RS meter has Calibration files that you use to adjust for it's short comings, making its reading very reliable.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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