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#25227 - 11/11/03 02:33 AM System for my Pops...
ZeN Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 125
Loc: San Diego, CA
Ok, so my dad came and spent Sunday with me, watching football, hanging out, and getting the demo that made him change his mind about wanting a surround system for his new house.

I've been trying to tell him, and trying to talk him into pre-wiring the home for nearly a year (construction started 7 months ago, and I was in his ear about the wiring months before the teardown) but it was worthless... his wife - a very wifey wife... the kind that doesn’t understand a guy liking sports, cars, music, gadgets, etc, was in his ear (much louder and *cough*bitchier*cough*) for none of it…

So what he needs now are wireless surround speakers. Any ideas?

I’ll also need to get him a receiver that’s easy to use; he lacks anything above a “basic” remote control/menu skill level

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#25228 - 11/11/03 02:36 AM Re: System for my Pops...
ZeN Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 125
Loc: San Diego, CA
Oops - forgot to mention what the front and center speakers will be

Fronts will likely be M22ti's - and the center the VP150. Sub might be an axiom sub along with it, the wife isn't big on the look of the svs or hsu - and she wants it *tiny*

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#25229 - 11/11/03 05:00 AM Re: System for my Pops...
Hawkson101 Offline
devotee

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 359
Loc: wilmette illinois
go with svs

you can stick a subwoofer anywhere, behing stuff ect so it shouldnt be so bad.
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Once You Pop You Can't Stop

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#25230 - 11/11/03 08:31 AM Re: System for my Pops...
DJ_Stunna Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/09/03
Posts: 604
Loc: Baltimore. MD. USA (but born a...
Yea, I agree with Hawkson101: get an SVS, or alternatively a Hsu (but Hsu's seem to be a bit more costly per performance.) I haven't ever heard an HSU sub so I cant be of any help suggesting which.
_________________________

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#25231 - 11/11/03 09:43 AM Re: System for my Pops...
JimmyTango Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 175
Just because the walls are not wired does not mean you can not have wired surrounds. Heck, it is very easy to run the wire under the floorboard along the carpet, if you do not want to see wire. That is how my room is, and I have wire snaked under the carpet where doorways are.

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#25232 - 11/11/03 10:32 AM Re: System for my Pops...
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
Jimmy is right. In addition, if the room has an unfinished attic above or basement below, it is relatively easy to run the wires through it. Also, on-wall raceways don't look too bad.

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#25233 - 11/11/03 12:45 PM Re: System for my Pops...
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
ZeN,

How much bass does he want/need? There are always the smaller subs from Hsu...but no small sub will put out what your SVS does.

Might be time that you and I get the our subs together so you can hear the differences. And since you have a truck.......


Edited by curtis (11/11/03 12:46 PM)

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#25234 - 11/11/03 01:25 PM Re: System for my Pops...
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
Although most of us here seem to agree that the Hsu or SVS subs are sonically superior, it is true that an Axiom sub may well get considerably higher WAF, with its finish perfectly coordinated with the main speakers -- yes, even with the grills off.

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#25235 - 11/11/03 04:07 PM Re: System for my Pops...
snippy Offline
devotee

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 427
Loc: San Luis Obispo, CA
yeah, sometimes you guys have to remember that Axiom subs are not bad, they are just not quite up there with HSU and SVS. If he wants the sub to match the Axioms, the Axiom sub wold do just fine for him. Although, SVS now has colored finishes for their box subs, so take a look at those as an option to tame WAF.

Also, why is he not allowed to wire inside the walls for the speakers, that would be much more acceptable for the WAF. She seems to me to not understand that good wireless speakers do not exist. They can be bought, but they suck and have terrible distortion that makes them sound like AM radio. Since QS8's mount up directly to the wall, the wire would never be seen by anyone. It seems like your dad needs to stand up to the lady and grow some balls.
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#25236 - 11/11/03 04:27 PM Re: System for my Pops...
topr Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Boise, ID USA
I agree, if the surrounds are going on an interior wall there's no insulation to deal with...it's a peice of cake to run the wire

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#25237 - 11/11/03 11:01 PM Re: System for my Pops...
x94blair3 Offline
local

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 257
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
"It seems like your dad needs to stand up to the lady and grow some balls."

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

That's classic.

On a side note, I must be the luckiest man in the world because my wife is supremely understanding about all my hobbies. As long as I'm honest and discuss things with her, she's open to just about anything. Including the Denon5900.

I suppose it helps that I've always been careful to be overly honest so neither of us were in for any surprises post wedding day.

But here, or with friends in "real" life it never ceases to amaze me some of the things I hear out of men about their wives. I wonder sometimes why they ever got married.

-Nick
_________________________
My M60's make me listen
My M80's make my ears hear
Either way - I'm not deaf anymore

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#25238 - 11/11/03 11:11 PM Re: System for my Pops...
Audiobob Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/05/03
Posts: 84
If your dad primarily wants the HT setup for TV and/or movies, then the Axiom sub should be ok but if he likes good music then have him go with an Hsu or SVS. This advice comes to you from personal experience when I did not listen to the advice on this M.B. so I got the EP-175 and it was ok for movies but was "muddy" with music (classical, jazz, country, and/or rock). I ended up with the Hsu VTF-2 for the exact same price) and returned the Axiom. I love the rest of the Axiom line, but IMO their sub's are sub(standard). Axiom should OEM the Hsu's or the SVS subs. BTW, Hsu is in Anaheim.

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#25239 - 11/12/03 04:02 AM Re: System for my Pops...
ZeN Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 125
Loc: San Diego, CA
Thanks all for your ideas - here comes one massive reply to cover it all (ish)

In reply to:

Yea, I agree with Hawkson101: get an SVS, or alternatively a Hsu (but Hsu's seem to be a bit more costly per performance.) I haven't ever heard an HSU sub so I cant be of any help suggesting which.




While you and I would totally agree on this, she wont have any of it. Just to get an idea of what we are dealing with She is mad at the thought of having anything other than the TV speakers...

In reply to:

Just because the walls are not wired does not mean you can not have wired surrounds. Heck, it is very easy to run the wire under the floorboard along the carpet, if you do not want to see wire. That is how my room is, and I have wire snaked under the carpet where doorways are.




Crossed this bridge - got nowhere. She refuses to have anything run under the carpet, refuses to have it run along the walls, (amazingly bitchy - man I don’t dislike many people...) and there is no attic (vaulted 25ft ceiling). The basement on the other hand might just work. Its an unfinished and open "play room" for BBQ's and what not, I hadn’t thought of running it under the floor.

In reply to:

How much bass does he want/need? There are always the smaller subs from Hsu...but no small sub will put out what your SVS does.
Might be time that you and I get the our subs together so you can hear the differences. And since you have a truck.......




He absolutely LOVED the sound of my SVS with the M80's - he literally sat there and listened to some of his favorite Taj Mahal tracks with his mouth agape for 15-20 min - it was beautiful

Yeah, I'd love to compare them some time. I really need to stop working so hard and have a life - this no life stuff sucks

In reply to:

Although most of us here seem to agree that the Hsu or SVS subs are sonically superior, it is true that an Axiom sub may well get considerably higher WAF, with its finish perfectly coordinated with the main speakers -- yes, even with the grills off.




Exactly - in her perfect world, they have no TV - and some invisible source of music. When we showed her my SVS she about died. I think my Dad can push something like the Axiom - its smaller, looks better, and can be placed below eye line (as opposed to the 39" SVS )

In reply to:

Also, why is he not allowed to wire inside the walls for the speakers, that would be much more acceptable for the WAF. She seems to me to not understand that good wireless speakers do not exist. They can be bought, but they suck and have terrible distortion that makes them sound like AM radio. Since QS8's mount up directly to the wall, the wire would never be seen by anyone. It seems like your dad needs to stand up to the lady and grow some balls.




You have no idea how right you are snippy - btw, my dad's balls were snipped long ago - I'd say the day they were married. Sometimes I think he is a happy_thoughtless _eunuch now -- My how the mighty have fallen

In reply to:

If your dad primarily wants the HT setup for TV and/or movies, then the Axiom sub should be ok but if he likes good music then have him go with an Hsu or SVS. This advice comes to you from personal experience when I did not listen to the advice on this M.B. so I got the EP-175 and it was ok for movies but was "muddy" with music (classical, jazz, country, and/or rock). I ended up with the Hsu VTF-2 for the exact same price) and returned the Axiom. I love the rest of the Axiom line, but IMO their sub's are sub(standard). Axiom should OEM the Hsu's or the SVS subs. BTW, Hsu is in Anaheim.




Thanks Audiobob - I might try to push the HSU or SVS box subs - they can be painted to match the walls or covered with a white girly cloth thing

Thanks to you all for the feedback. I will try to push her around a little and help my dad resurrect his nads - wish me luck

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#25240 - 11/12/03 03:58 PM Re: System for my Pops...
snippy Offline
devotee

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 427
Loc: San Luis Obispo, CA
I do not know if this got lost with everything else I wrote, but SVS now has colored box subs. They have white and other colors that may match the walls. So maybe they may be worth a try for WAF. Here is the link:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb1_isd_colors.htm

Enjoy!
_________________________
MySpace

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#25241 - 11/12/03 04:34 PM Re: System for my Pops...
JimmyTango Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 175
How int he hell can someone be against havign the wire hidden under the floorboard/carpet?

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#25242 - 11/12/03 05:28 PM Re: System for my Pops...
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Geez, Zen, glad you're back. I didn't realize how boring we'd gotten without a little family audio intrigue!

Find a time when she (or both her and your dad) are gone and just do it. It's easier to get forgiveness than permission. Use the basement option.

Be unfailingly nice, even when she's unreasonable. It will confuse her.

And take your Dad to "Spines R Us" on the way home sometime.

Good luck, buddy. Let us know how you make out.

_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#25243 - 11/12/03 05:38 PM Re: System for my Pops...
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
Masa,
I just realized that I didn't notice the wires to the surround speakers when I was at your place yet there are race tracks up from the floor. How the heck did you get those wires to the back wall?
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#25244 - 11/12/03 05:39 PM Re: System for my Pops...
x94blair3 Offline
local

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 257
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
Aint that the truth. Bitter people (and she sounds bitter about something) hate when you're sincerely nice to them. Unless you're doing it sarcastically, you've effectively given them no easy ammo and they tend to fold.

Personally I can't imagine marrying someone like that...let alone acting that way.

Peace and love!

-Nick
_________________________
My M60's make me listen
My M80's make my ears hear
Either way - I'm not deaf anymore

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#25245 - 11/12/03 05:43 PM Re: System for my Pops...
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
In reply to:

She seems to me to not understand that good wireless speakers do not exist




She doesn't seem to understand nor care much at all about what good audio is! Try to get her involved in the good sound part of it.
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#25246 - 11/12/03 07:09 PM Re: System for my Pops...
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
Mike,

The wires goes around the room through the same raceways placed just above the base moulding, along the wall facing the backyard. Most visitors just don't see them.

In fact, the raceways contain the S-video and component video cables to the projector, in addition to the 12-awg surround speaker cables.

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#25247 - 11/12/03 08:27 PM Re: System for my Pops...
MIKEY Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 331
Loc: ORANGE COUNTY CALIF
Hey Kolbe.. Welcome back..
Say, is this the big room with hugh glass wall ? And the 5 or 6 foot high room divider right across the middle ?
I know this may be low balling the deal, but I would suggest going with the Epic Midi or the Epic Master..
Small enough to stay out of the way, but quality sound.. You could run the wires under rugs, along that divider, etc.. Would not require a hugh a/v reciever, so there would not be as many buttons to push..
You could also set him up with one remote.. One of the nicer ones, with micros, like the pronto.. I'm sure Sony must sell one.. Then he just hits play dvd, and it's a done deal.. ?
Oh yeah, don't forget the duck tape.. For the wife !! Oppps.. Did I really say that ????? hahaha. . delete delete...
_________________________
LFE ! The rest is just details..

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#25248 - 11/12/03 10:23 PM Re: System for my Pops...
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
Ok. But how do you get them from the fireplace area to the wall without crossing the open area to the kitchen?
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#25249 - 11/13/03 02:05 AM Re: System for my Pops...
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
The raceway simply arches the opening; again, most people don't see it till I point out.

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#25250 - 11/13/03 03:29 AM Re: System for my Pops...
ZeN Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 125
Loc: San Diego, CA
In reply to:

Say, is this the big room with hugh glass wall ? And the 5 or 6 foot high room divider right across the middle ?
I know this may be low balling the deal, but I would suggest going with the Epic Midi or the Epic Master..
Small enough to stay out of the way, but quality sound.. You could run the wires under rugs, along that divider, etc.. Would not require a hugh a/v reciever, so there would not be as many buttons to push..
You could also set him up with one remote.. One of the nicer ones, with micros, like the pronto.. I'm sure Sony must sell one.. Then he just hits play dvd, and it's a done deal.. ?
Oh yeah, don't forget the duck tape.. For the wife !! Oppps.. Did I really say that ????? hahaha. . delete delete...




Yes, this is the HUGE room, its 20W x 38L x 25H - of the two 38 foot sides, one is open to kitchen, entry, hallway, and the other is a massive glass wall 1 foot below the ceiling to 1 foot above the floor.

I haven't had the chance to talk to him yet (ended up with a surprise root canal today... but thats another story ) but as soon as I do I will let you all know the fruits of your suggestions

Until then!!!

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#25251 - 11/13/03 08:10 AM Re: System for my Pops...
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
I get it now. You've done a great job of hidding them.
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*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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