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#258163 - 04/25/09 02:48 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: mistico]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10374
Misti, amplifiers simply don't work that way; they have no capability of performing a miracle by making speakers "come alive sooner" at lower volume level. Volume is volume.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#258164 - 04/25/09 03:01 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: JohnK]
mistico Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Bay Area, CA
What I meant is that at the same SPL as before, the speakers have better bass, mids and there is more detail everywhere. Before I had to listen at higher SPL for the speakers to have this "sound". Maybe I have crappy receiver, good thing it has pre-outs.


Edited by mistico (04/25/09 03:02 AM)

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#258168 - 04/25/09 05:15 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: mistico]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Zimm might I send you to Outlaw Audio and try out the M2200

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

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#258177 - 04/25/09 08:50 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: jakewash]
Spoiler Online   content
aficionado

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 680
Loc: South Florida
I like mine, and they're dead quiet... and on sale!

The Behringer Europower amps seem worth a look. Low distortion, good price. They have fairly noisy fans, but there are sites for DIY's to quiet them down.

_________________________
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED

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#258180 - 04/25/09 09:51 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: jakewash]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Zimm might I send you to Outlaw Audio and try out the M2200

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html


Thanks, i had not found those. For $270 per ch that is pretty good. Still not the power level of this Crown (450/ch at 4 ohms) but clearly a bargain with low THD. it is now on the radar!
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#258181 - 04/25/09 09:59 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: JohnK]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Misti, amplifiers simply don't work that way; they have no capability of performing a miracle by making speakers "come alive sooner" at lower volume level. Volume is volume.


I accept that the impact is driven by a placebo effect, but I do "find" more bass even at low levels (this time about 70db). They call it weight I think. The only non-placebo explanation I can offer is possibly power reserves allowing bass (without a sub) that a smaller power supply can't reach. Sames as the greater dynamic range I explained above. But that is far from scientific, and I'm too lazy to do true A/B testing for the group.

That is the most surprising aspect of the external amp issue for me. There literally was more music than I was getting - 2 to 3 db of sound peaks. I didn't expect that and i think it adds something to the experience, when you exceed my old amps comfort zone of 80 to 100 watts.

And just to show I am not completely cured, I could swear the image moved higher in the room. No idea why, but Knopfler's voice is about 18" higher on "You and Your Friends" than I recall on the Denon. Damn powerful placebo!


Edited by Zimm (04/25/09 10:30 AM)
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#258182 - 04/25/09 10:27 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: JohnK]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Very good, Charles; enjoy. I do have to comment about one statement however: 80-85dB is by no means a "soft" level, it's quite loud and is the upper limit for long term exposure without hearing damage. For example, ordinary conversation with a nearby person would typically be about 60-65dB(doesn't always apply to wives)and 20dB above that is quite a significant jump considering that a 10dB increase is said to be subjectively "twice as loud".


And that is where I think so much of the debate on the amp issues lies. To me, 85db is nice. No, it is not soft, but it is far from the live instrument volume you are trying to reproduce. If 85db is near your top end, then a 5000 watt amp would make no difference. But trying to recreate a live emotion (not live rock concert! ), where 100db is often found, and 105 is common, then these more powerful amps just keep the signal clean so you don't get the distortion of my Denon clipping the signal.

In short, I agree with you, and your wrong. ;\)
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#258183 - 04/25/09 10:29 AM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: Zimm]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
 Originally Posted By: Zimm
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Misti, amplifiers simply don't work that way; they have no capability of performing a miracle by making speakers "come alive sooner" at lower volume level. Volume is volume.


I accept that the impact is driven by a placebo effect, but I do "find" more bass even at low levels (this time about 70db). They call it weight I think. The only non-placebo explanation I can offer is possibly power reserves allowing bass (without a sub) that a smaller power supply can't reach. Sames as the greater dynamic range I explained above. But that is far from scientific, and I'm too lazy to do true A/B testing for the group.

That is the most surprising aspect of the external amp issue for me. There literally was more music than I was getting - 2 to 3 db of sound peaks. I didn't expect that and i think it adds something to the experience, when you exceed my old amps comfort zone of 80 to 100 watts.


I must be taking the same placebo.

I'm with Zimm on this one.

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#258191 - 04/25/09 01:00 PM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: bugbitten]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
After my A1400 experience I can't buy a seperate amp soon enough.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#258203 - 04/25/09 02:12 PM Re: Added an Amp...WOW, kinda. [Re: jakewash]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10853
Loc: Central NH
Damn, you guys make me want to order a couple of those Outlaws. I've been saving their Sale e-mail as a reminder.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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