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#265375 - 07/04/09 06:37 PM Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
I've decided to upgrade from my Onkyo HTIB to an Axiom 5.1 sound system. I've already decided on the speakers I want, but I'm have trouble deciding what I will use to power them. I'm hoping to get some advice from the forum members here.

Audio Setup:
2x - M80 v2 Floorstanding Speakers
2x - QS8 v2 Surround Speakers
1x - VP150 v2 Center Channel Speaker
1x- HSU VTF-2 MK3 Subwoofer

A friend of mine recommend Emotiva Audio's UMC-1 and XPA-5.

Emotiva Audio UMC-1 Audio/Video Processor
http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

Emotiva Auio XPA-5 Five Channel Audio Power Amplifier
http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

I tried to run a forum search to see if there were any threads relating to Emotiva's products, but nothing came up. So, my question: Is the combination of the UMC-1 and XPA-5 going to be able to power the above mentioned speakers? Or should I look elsewhere?

My budget is between $1,000-$1,500, and I need something with the following specs:
5x - HDMI inputs
3x - Component inputs
Support for legacy video inputs to be scaled and output over HDMI at up to 1080p
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#265377 - 07/04/09 06:48 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Welcome to the forum.

I have no experience with Emotiva but one question that might open up more possibilities. Are you willing to use and HDMI switcher to get you to 5 inputs or do you want them all direct connections?
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#265378 - 07/04/09 06:57 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: grunt]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
I'm willing to use an HDMI switcher, but I would prefer to have all direct connections. I have a lot of gear in my setup, so I would like to avoid adding unnecessary equipment if possible.
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#265409 - 07/05/09 12:28 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
My main concern is whether the receivers I'm looking at will be able to drive the Axiom M80's. Here are two others I'm considering:

Denon AVR-4310CI
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4844.asp

Denon AVR-3310CI
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4972.asp

I've also looked at Onkyo, Yamaha, Harmon Kardon, and Marantz. Based upon several threads here, it seems that pairing an Onkyo receiver with the M80's is a bad idea, and I didn't find anything that meets my requirements from Yamaha, Harmon Kardon, or Marantz.

*Sorry to double post, but I didn't have the option to edit my last post.


Edited by zero002021 (07/05/09 12:29 AM)
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#265410 - 07/05/09 12:37 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
St_PatGuy Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7413
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
The Denons will drive the M80s with no problem. Harmon Kardon are also well regarding in the oomph department.
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#265412 - 07/05/09 12:43 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Z,welcome. Yes, the 5 HDMI input requirement does limit the choices. The two new Denon models that you link would be fine and the similarly priced Onkyo models would drive the M80s just as well, since their amplifier sections are quite powerful and have tested well at 4 ohms. I'd mention the 876 in particular, which is available for a little under $1000 now from Shop Onkyo. 4 HDMI inputs, however, and the new model isn't in yet.
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#265413 - 07/05/09 01:06 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: JohnK]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
Thank you for the quick responses.

Though it's over my price range, I think I'm going to spend a little extra and order the Denon AVR-4310CI. It has everything I'm looking for with 6 HDMI inputs (5 rear, 1 front), 3 component inputs, and support for legacy video inputs to be scaled and output over HDMI at up to 1080p.
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#265415 - 07/05/09 01:35 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
If you get the AVR-4310CI please post your impressions of it. I’ve been eyeballing it as part of my BD player/projector/screen upgrade plan.
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#265422 - 07/05/09 02:41 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: grunt]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
I was reading the AVR-4310CI impressions at AVS Forums and the majority were positive, so I placed an order for one.

I got a great price from an authorized Denon reseller. Are we allowed to share pricing/hot deals? I know some forums don't allow it.
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#265424 - 07/05/09 02:59 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
There’s a prohibition against advertising and solicitation but I don’t think anyone has ever been slapped around for pointing out a deal. Unlike some forums you may be use to the denizens of this one are within limits relatively well behave so the forum is virtually un-moderated as far as I can tell.

So you could post your find here or there is even a Deals thread
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#265443 - 07/05/09 01:25 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: grunt]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
Good to know. I'll post the link here, and use the Deals thread to post other deals I find in the future.

Denon AVR-4310CI - $1,699 (MSRP $1,999)
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR4310CI-7-...46813968&sr=8-1

The deal is available on Amazon through OneCall. Both are "Authorized Denon E-Tailers", so Denon will honor their warranty if you purchase through them.
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#265554 - 07/06/09 05:14 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I would also think the Marantz offerings would drive M80s since they are also made by D&M Holdings, Denon's parent company. I am sure they share many internal components.
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#265556 - 07/06/09 05:19 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Welcome to the forums Zero. Thats going to be one heck of a system when you get it all set up. Don't forget to come back and post some pictures.
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#265674 - 07/08/09 10:31 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
Smitty4ut Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 25
I have a Denon 3808CI. It sounds really good or so I thought. I replaced an Yamaha RX-V1000 with the Denon. I recently purchased a B-Stock Emotiva XPA-5. I am using the Denon as my Pre/Pro until Emotiva comes out with there new XMC-1. I can tell a big difference with the XPA-5 driving my Paradigm Studio 60's. They are 8ohm nominal. So I would think that an XPA-5 would do a much better job of driving your Axiom's. Also there customer service is awesome. Not sure that Denon's customer service is even in the same class.

Check out some of the Emotiva threads on other forums. Also their reviews on ther equipment all seem to be good. I find it hard to believe that you can do better for the money.

Hope this helps.

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#265678 - 07/08/09 11:02 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Smitty4ut]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: Smitty4ut
I I find it hard to believe that you can do better for the money.


Don't know about that. I found that the "pro" amps offer much better bang for the buck and don't blink an eye at 4 ohms (or even 2 ohms). My QSC has loads more power for 100+db transients, has a smaller (but damn heavy) form factor, and cost less, with a longer warranty and tons more experience with amp design. I'm not knocking Emotiva - I'm a fan of there's. Love that they put a good (if not always perfect) product out there for a good price with solid customer service. Just saying, in the "better for the money" category, I think you can do a tad better. But the Emo's look much better than the pro amps, so you have to consider that...I guess.
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#265680 - 07/08/09 11:23 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Zimm]
Smitty4ut Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 25
When I do a search for Pro Amps, I don't really get a company. Can you provide a link? I just know that as soon as I hooked up my XPA-5 compaired to my Denon 3808CI receiver, my daughter was downstairs on the computer. She looked over at me and said wow. Mine was also a B-Stock, that I got for $699.

Sorry I didn't see the QSC at first. I am looking at their web site now.


Edited by Smitty4ut (07/08/09 11:26 AM)

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#265681 - 07/08/09 11:26 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Smitty4ut]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4082
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Google....crown pro amps
Google.... yamaha pro amps

just a couple companies that make quality pro amps
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#265682 - 07/08/09 11:50 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: BlueJays1]
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
Behringer-EuroPower is popular amongst frugal audiopiles. Do a search on pro amps @ Musician 's Friend website. Don't know if they still have decent prices, but at least you can browse for a wide selection of pro amp in just one place.
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#265693 - 07/08/09 03:39 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: JaimeG]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto
Over the years, companies like Behringer seemed to have geared their products more towards the musical instrument market, however, I am curious about these attractively priced stereo power amps. Generally, the good quality amps for A/V use, in terms of S/N ratio, are pretty quiet. I am curious to know how these amps from companies like Behringer measure up in this particular category?

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#265834 - 07/10/09 12:33 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: casey01]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Look up the specs for what ever amp you desire, the S/N ratio is there, it is usually a lower number than home audio amps but still not usually audible.
_________________________
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-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#265876 - 07/11/09 02:36 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: jakewash]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
6ave.com is selling the denon 4310 for $1645 with no tax and free shipping...
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#265897 - 07/11/09 10:56 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: terzaghi]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I wonder if they still do AVSforum member deals on the 4310.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#266048 - 07/13/09 06:45 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: jakewash]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
The Denon 4310 was delivered over the weekend. I had a chance to set it up on Saturday, and it seems to be a pretty nice receiver. It does a great job with the HDMI pass-through/scaling. There is no noticeable degradation in image quality.

Before the I order the speakers, I have one final question. I was having a discussion with a friend about the speakers I'm looking at, and he was telling me that my room is too small and they wouldn't sound good.

Below is an image with my room dimensions and the speaker setup. I know the speakers I'm looking at are overkill for a room this size, but I may move the setup into a large room in the future, and I would prefer to buy the best now, instead of upgrading again later when I switch rooms.

Can I get some thoughts about this? Is my room to small for the speakers I'm looking at? Or they will they sound fine?

Again, here are the speakers I'm looking at:
2x - M80 v2 Floorstanding Speakers
2x - QS8 v2 Surround Speakers
1x - VP150 v2 Center Channel Speaker
1x- HSU VTF-2 MK3 Subwoofer (already bought)


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#266049 - 07/13/09 06:48 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
It's a fairly small room. Is that bench where your seating position is, or is there a couch or something in front of that?

That said, I sit about 8-10' away from my M80s in a room that's 19x20 with an opening to the kitchen behind it, and they sound just fine. As long as you calibrate things, you're ok. Of course, if you're too, too close to the M80s (like, with 2 feet) you start hearing individual drivers instead of the whole thing.
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#266054 - 07/13/09 06:58 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Ken.C]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
The bench is where the seating position is. The distance from my current speakers to the bench is about 8 feet.

There is a big rug underneath the area where the speakers are placed to help with the rooms acoustics.
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#266055 - 07/13/09 06:59 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Ken.C]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
Zero, your dimensions are similar to my own. I am using M80s, VP150 and 2x QS8s without any issues, however I have my TV and fronts on the short wall as opposed to your setup on the long wall.
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#266134 - 07/14/09 12:45 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Adrian]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
While some speakers may be too big for a room, the M80 are not that kind of speaker. They are capable of being too loud for your room, but should sound great at lower levels as well - which is what you want.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#266139 - 07/14/09 01:31 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Zimm]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Lower volume levels are where the M80's excell, IMO.
_________________________
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-----------------
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My HT

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#266343 - 07/16/09 07:00 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: jakewash]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
Does anyone know what the difference between "Black Oak vinyl finish" and "Black Oak finish" is? On the product pages, I just noticed that it says:

"New Black Finish! Axiom is now offering a new stock Black Oak vinyl finish. If you need your speakers in our old Black Oak finish, you may purchase them for no extra charge in our Custom Vinyl Shop."

Any ideas? Or should I contact Axiom directly?
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#266344 - 07/16/09 07:15 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3271
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Contact them. Even in the "custom vinyl" section, nothing is named like that. I guess a bit of copy-editing would have helped in this case! ;\)
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#266352 - 07/16/09 11:23 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: EFalardeau]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Either that or it's an all black finish, as opposed to the black/woodgrain finish.
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#266355 - 07/17/09 03:33 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Ken.C]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
That's interesting. If that's the case, I would have preferred an all black finish on my QS8s. I'm still in the (slow) process of replacing all my old Sony speakers with Axioms. Next on my list is the VP150. I guess I'll get it in the (now) Custom Black Oak to match the QSes.

I'm hoping the Custom Black Oak will continue to be available at no additional cost for the foreseeable future.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
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#266388 - 07/17/09 02:46 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: ClubNeon]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
For those that are interested, here is the response I received from Axiom:

"This change is relevant only for Axiom owners of Black Oak speakers looking to complete their system. The difference is subtle between the two finishes but different enough to be apparent when the two are side by side. The former Black Oak had silver nuances in the wood grain; the new one does not."
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#266461 - 07/18/09 12:25 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: EFalardeau]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
Contact them. Even in the "custom vinyl" section, nothing is named like that. I guess a bit of copy-editing would have helped in this case! ;\)


Éric, the former Black Oak standard finish is labelled Custom Black Oak and is the last item on the "Choose your Custom Finish" drop dowmn menu list. In reality, this finish should be useful only for Axiom owners wanting to complete their system. Axiom will take measures to notify Axiom owners of Black Oak products of the change.


Edited by Jc (07/18/09 12:27 PM)
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#266629 - 07/20/09 03:06 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Jc]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Any word on how long the Custom Black Oak vinyl will be available at no additional cost? I'd like to have my 7.1 setup finished by the end of this year, but there's no guarantee, and I'm buying it a speaker or two at a time.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#267068 - 07/24/09 04:36 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: ClubNeon]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
I just placed my order for the Axiom speakers. Thanks for the help everyone. I'll be sure to post pictures of the setup when I get them. \:\)
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#267071 - 07/24/09 04:39 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: zero002021]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
You'd better. It's The Law.

(And congratulations!)
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#267086 - 07/24/09 07:24 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: MarkSJohnson]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4082
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Congratulations on your Axiom Audio purchase zero002021. May great sound be with you \:\) .
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-Max Payne

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#267151 - 07/25/09 02:38 PM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: BlueJays1]
Shaun Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 31
how is the denon working out for you?

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#267185 - 07/26/09 12:48 AM Re: Upgrading to Axiom's - Need AVR Advice [Re: Shaun]
zero002021 Offline
buff

Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Boston, MA
The Denon is working great so far. I have the following devices connected to it:

Component:
- Xbox 360
- Nintendo Wii
- Verizon FiOS / Motorola Cable Box

HDMI:
- PlayStation 3
- Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD Player

I have the receiver set to output everything through HDMI. It does a great job with the HDMI pass-through/scaling. There is no noticeable degradation in image quality.

My two previous receivers were Onkyos, so it took me a few days to get used to the menus/user interface on the Denon, but it's easy to use now that I'm familiar with it.

The iPod/MP3 player support is nice to have and works well. I was able to plug my iPhone in through the USB port on the front of the receiver, and it detected it and let me listen to all the music on the iPhone. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the HD Radio, as reception in my basement isn't very good with the included antenna.

If you have any specific questions about the receiver, let me know and I'll answer if I can.
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