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#268715 - 08/09/09 09:19 AM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: fredk]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6251
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
As most of you know, I defended Sean when he came to this forum to introduce his modifications for Axiom products. I thought then, and still do, that he was, justified or not, unfairly and ungraciously treated here. Then he proceeded to deliver a totally unprofessional hatchet job to Axiom products on his forum.

I suspect that Ken is correct when he says his doing this was caused by the unwelcoming response, justified or not, he received here at the forum. Whether what he said is actually his honest opinion or not is unknown (I suspect it is). Regardless, he violated what is considered, though unwritten, virtually a law that one in the industry never does what he did to another in the industry. It reflects badly on both parties. Fortunately there is enough independent information about Axiom products which refutes his conclusions and opinions.

I cannot speak to the quality or performance of Sean's products. But, personally, he has lost my respect.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#268717 - 08/09/09 09:43 AM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: Ajax]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Regardless, he violated what is considered, though unwritten, virtually a law that one in the industry never does what he did to another in the industry.

If that is the case, he did the hatchet job on himself. Its a small industry and people remember things like this.

I agree that he was not given the best welcome here.
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#268723 - 08/09/09 10:22 AM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: fredk]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Skiing Ninja just sells overpriced/expensive modifications to add to a few manufacturers speakers lines...if you want to buy that kind of stuff then more power to you. I'll spend my money elsewhere.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#268726 - 08/09/09 10:43 AM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: BlueJays1]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
As to the M80s, I have reliable information that the M80v2 had significant improvements over the Ti in the realm of crossovers (or at least, significant improvements were made before changing the designation). So maybe there is something to his graphs, but I still agree with Jack.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#268737 - 08/09/09 02:36 PM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: Ken.C]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Another review i came across which shows the ninja's graphs are out to lunch.



http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/axiom-m80.html



Seriously though folks, in the end it really comes down to what we all like. When i was young my dad had wharfdales, and they always sounded constrained to me but he loved them. When i was 16 i bought some Pioneer HPM 900's and i still have them 31 yrs later.Maybe not the best speakers by some peoples standards, but the imaging is incredible and they did a great job at HT and they have rocked out at more than a couple parties in my younger years . I havent listened to any music on the new speakers yet but i really like the axioms for HT.The Pioneers still serve duty for the kids to play their so called music at deafening levels. My only regret is i didnt take better care of my hearing (mechanic) as i am unable to hear as well as i used to.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#268741 - 08/09/09 03:23 PM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: Socketman]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
As Jack said(very well), there exists a code of ethics between companies that was broken by one of the parties involved here, and that business comes across as having an agenda against Axiom products...Axiom does make great speakers, no need to do something childish like cross out the word "great" because you think you can improve upon them. Maybe he can, maybe he can't, but his business methods are immature to say the least, and for the coin he's asking for the "improvement", I'd pass on it and buy a nice amp instead.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#268752 - 08/09/09 04:33 PM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: Adrian]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Great point Adrian. I do not understand burning bridges either with manufacturers especially when his business depends on the success of them. Its not really surprising though, I suspect there are not many people buying the M22 crossover and no market for it within Axiom owners, so it really does not effect his bottom line. His product cater to the 123 crowd anyways, and their fanboys have always seemed to have an agenda against Axiom, if you read the various audio forums (ugly, poor build quality, cheap vinyl finish, ear bleeding bright, shrill, no bass etc etc) so all in all the comments are not really suprising. Certainly there is a lack of business ethics, but this shows the different approaches companies take. I have a great deal of respect for Axioms business model and the way they go about their business and always holding true to certain ethics/standards.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#268754 - 08/09/09 05:02 PM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: Ken.C]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
As to the M80s, I have reliable information that the M80v2 had significant improvements over the Ti in the realm of crossovers (or at least, significant improvements were made before changing the designation). So maybe there is something to his graphs, but I still agree with Jack.

Not really Ken. Soundstage has Ti and V2 measurements and both look considerably better than what the Ninja put up. Neither had the big rise at the top end that he shows.
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#268780 - 08/09/09 10:43 PM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: fredk]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Absolutely right, Fred; the NRC(not by SoundStage itself, as was said)measurements for both M80 versions are readily available. They show very good to excellent frequency response for both and in particular no huge 9-10dB rise between about 3KHz-15KHz exists. The listening window average, which includes plus and minus 15 degree vertical measurements also shows none of the huge vertical angle frequency irregularities.

The NRC(National Research Council of Canada)is recognized as one of the most experienced and competent organizations which measure speakers. It's those measurements which can be trusted and which square with the generally excellent(in view of varying subjective preferences)user experience with the M80s.

As Alan has reported here on several occasions, his suggested modifications after he came to Axiom apparently resulted in greater lower mid-range smoothness from about 200Hz-1000Hz. That's about it.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#268868 - 08/10/09 10:09 PM Re: Skiing Ninja. Anyone heard of this [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Oh man, not another freaking ninja thread... ;\) I thought we got rid of conversations about that idiot..
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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