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#279986 - 11/20/09 04:24 PM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: CatBrat]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Given that LCD panels can't pull off much more than 1500:1 natively, and every panel made today does that. Anything more is from tricks with the backlight, and basically lies because you can't get near that with a uniform backlight with real content only test patterns.

So making the backlight able to dim down to just about nothing when measuring the black, and making it twice as bright as model which measures 30,000:1 will get you up to 70,000:1. But since real world pictures have bright areas on the screen most of the time the backlight will usually be run up almost all the way, washing out the blacks.

Again look around to see if there's a control for backlight levels, and cut it down. This may also be labeled as a power saver mode. Some sets also adjust the backlight to follow the Brightness or Contrast controls.

That said, I don't like Samsung sets. They may be the best of the cheap stuff, but they're still in the cheap pile. Panasonic or Sharp are the way to go for LCD (not that I'd buy an LCD anyway).
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#279992 - 11/20/09 04:42 PM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: ClubNeon]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5795
Loc: Some random location
There is a "back light" adjustment on the Samsungs, which I'm going to play around with a little more. But another thing I'm going to do is examine the 26 and 37 inch together, by swapping the hdmi input back and forth while viewing the same material. After making sure all of the settings are the same, that is. Both of them have (almost) the same picture settings. If the 26 inch 30,000:1 is much better than the 37 inch 70,000:1, then it's going back to the store. (I would get a plasma, if I could find a 35-38 inch, 1080p in the $700 price range. I did some extensive previewing with a movie I brought of the 55 in Panasonic Viera S1 and it was crap. Too much green that can't be adjusted out.)

Also, a question on the W100 and W3 in/on wall speakers. I may have to call Brent for this, but I need to know how close to a wall stud for the W3 and how close to a horizontal header (Ceiling on other side of wall is 38 inches up on mounting wall) for the W100 can I mount them?



Edited by CatBrat (11/20/09 05:02 PM)

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#280003 - 11/20/09 06:52 PM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: CatBrat]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5795
Loc: Some random location
Well, that was certainly revealing. After doing a side by side comparison of the 26 and 37 inch Samsung TV's, I found absolutely no difference, except size when tended to amplify any problem areas that just made it "seem" to be inferior. Same black levels, and same off angle viewing problems.

(Patiently waiting for the "I told you so's".)

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#280005 - 11/20/09 07:50 PM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: CatBrat]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8267
Loc: Tacoma
Well, you showed your self, so I guess you've got that "I'm from Missouri" thing pretty much covered

\:\)
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#280024 - 11/20/09 11:06 PM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: CatBrat]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10359
CB, you continue to quote those absurd advertised contrast ratios in the tens of thousands, although about the only way you'd get the screen that dark would be to pull the plug out of the wall. As Chris pointed out, a number around 1000, certainly not higher than 1500, is more realistic.

Since the black levels are so significant to you, it might have been a better idea to consider the 42" Panasonic plasma available for $600-$700 if it would fit your location.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#280035 - 11/21/09 02:20 AM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: JohnK]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Additionally don't worry about 1080p with displays smaller than 50". You just can't see the detail unless your nose is up against the panel. A 42" 720p plasma would deliver everything you want.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#280048 - 11/21/09 09:20 AM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: ClubNeon]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5795
Loc: Some random location
Thanks for the replies. Can't go 42" because of mounting 2 W3s. There are studs in the way in the wall. The 37" will put the speakers about 1 to 2 inches away from the sides of the TV. Can't mount on the other side of the studs because then there would be a door and a hallway in the way. I thought about the 720p for quite a while, but just wanted the 1080p. If I got the 720p, I would constantly be wanting to upgrade it again.

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#280052 - 11/21/09 10:03 AM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: CatBrat]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5795
Loc: Some random location
Also, concerning the under $700 37" plasmas, 1080p, the only one I could find that even looked halfway decent was the Panasonic S1 model, but the S1s suffer from a greenish overcast that can't be adjusted out. Reported by cnet and by my own observations.

Taking ClubNeon's advice, I turned the backlight adjustment down from 8 to 5 and there is a big improvement of the black levels. Particularly the upper and lower black bars. They are black now instead of a dark grey.

Can't do anything about the viewing angle, but it only affects one seating position out of 7. Not too bad. At, least it's not where I sit. lol.

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#280053 - 11/21/09 10:19 AM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: CatBrat]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10829
Loc: Central NH
Who needs more than 6 friends anyway? That's twice what I've ever had...
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#280058 - 11/21/09 11:31 AM Re: M60 vs M80 [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6599
Loc: It's all about the location.
That's 'cause most people wouldn't want to be caught dead with a mortisian. ;\)
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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