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#281302 - 12/03/09 09:04 AM Laptops
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1124
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Just wondering if I could pick your brains. My very old T40 Thinkpad died, so it's time for a replacement.

The Thinkpad was very good up until the last 3 or 4 months. I loved having the track point, but very few new units have that feature. It will mostly be used for work (MS Office) and surfing the net. At home, it will access my mp3's and watch the odd movie. No gaming or cad software, so a killer video card is of little importance.

Thoughts? Any brands I should stay away from? I've searched high and low for that post regarding reliability from the different brands, with no success.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#281307 - 12/03/09 09:42 AM Re: Laptops [Re: real80sman]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Lenovo took over building the ThinkPads from IBM. They're still built in the same factories. If you want something along the same line you could go that way.

As for the reliability report it was a study done by aftermarket warranty company, Square Trade. You can read their findings in a PDF linked from here: http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/laptop-reliability-1109
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#281313 - 12/03/09 10:22 AM Re: Laptops [Re: ClubNeon]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
We just got a few Thinkpad T400s machines (not the plain T400--that one was heavy and slow!) at work, and I've actually been pretty impressed with them--I normally find Thinkpads to be miserably slow, for one reason or another. Avoid the X300 like the plague.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#281317 - 12/03/09 10:56 AM Re: Laptops [Re: real80sman]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I am personally somewhat leery of Dell Inspiron notebooks. If you get one, spring for the extended 2-3 year warranty.

In the past couple of years, I've owned two of them (a 1420 and a 1520). I have family members (for which I provide the tech support) that have owned another three or four of them (1525's, 1720's, 15's). Within 12-18 months, all but one of them became untrustworthy and generally not usable.

The 1520's LCD backlight died with about 2 months left on the 1 year warranty. Dell replaced it, without hassle. Three months later (outside of warranty), the hard drive died. I replaced it on my own. Two months after that it started suffering random lock-ups, even after full reinstalls of XP, Vista, or Ubuntu. New memory didn't help. Then the LCD started occasionally winking out on me. At that point, I was done with it.

The 1420's LCD screen started randomly just flipping to a red screen about 4 months outside of the one-year warranty. It got worse and worse over the next few months until it ceased functioning all together. The machine still works, but only with an external monitor.

The family members' Inspirons have suffered similar fates. The LCD died on one of them, and another one had a hard drive failure as well. My sister currently has a 9-month old 15xx. It's working fine now, but time will tell.

On the other hand...

Us upper-level software developers at work all have Dell Precision workstations. We like them. They have proven to be reliable, even when beat-upon as temporary database & web servers. Our in-the-field sales team all use Dell Latitude notebooks on a three-year rotation cycle. Generally speaking, they hold up pretty well. We do occasionally have hard drive crashes or keyboard problems, but I'd guess that about 90% of them last the full three-year cycle and are still in "good" shape when they return. Other than batteries, which only last a couple of years (but that's normal).

. . .

I have a friend who spent like $4,000 on an Alienware notebook a couple of years ago. He had more problems with that thing, and regretted spending that much. We told him he was nuts. It was a beast of a machine when it wasn't randomly overheating and locking up.

I've had dealings with a couple of Toshiba notebooks. My sister owned one for a couple of years until it's started to become untrustworthy with random lock-ups. It was a good notebook until it wasn't. My brother-in-law used to have a Toshiba notebook too. It worked really well for a couple of years until it was dropped and the LCD ceased working. Hardly the Toshiba's fault. But on the other hand again, a co-worker bought a high-end gaming Toshiba notebook about 3 months ago and has had a lot of problems with it as well. Heat related lock-ups when gaming. Best Buy & the Geek Squad has worked to fix it but can't, and so they recently replaced it with an equivalent Acer model. No idea of the longevity of it, but the Acer seems to be a nice notebook.

After the Dell's died, my wife wanted a Mac. It worked so pleasingly well that I soon followed. She has a Macbook Air and I have a 15" Macbook Pro. The Air is about a year old and my Pro is about 6 months old. No, not old enough to really gauge long-term longevity. But the build quality and aesthetics of both surpass anything I've ever experienced in the PC world. Everything from the tactile response of the keys and touchpad to the resistance of the screen's hinges are pleasing to me. Both machines have been absolutely flawless hardware & software wise. They're both a joy to use. And with Parallels or Bootcamp for those couple of stubborn Windows-only apps that I have, neither of us can imagine going back to the PC-only world. I may just be growing old and tired of the endless tinkering and patching of a Windows machine (which I still have to do at work, of course...), but I've found myself very much enjoying the "it just works" ethos of owning a Mac for home. YMMV, of course.

If you want to really get some good opinions, check out the forums on NotebookReview.com, http://forum.notebookreview.com/index.php . They have broad, general-discussion forums, and specific, model-by-model forums for every brand imaginable. It may take a bit of reading & searching, but you can definitely get a feel for what models people like, what they don't like, common problems & solutions, the most cost-effective configurations, where to get good deals, etc.

And for deals, keep an eye on http://www.xpbargains.com. From first-hand experience, you can save hundreds of dollars by using coupon codes from that site. Dell in particular often has semi-secret coupon codes that will knock 15%, 25%, even 30% off the price of a machine.

Good luck! \:\)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#281320 - 12/03/09 12:06 PM Re: Laptops [Re: PeterChenoweth]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5871
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Just a warning on the extended warranties.

A few years ago, I bought a HP laptop with a 3 year extended warranty. I ordered both from HP online. All I had for paperwork was the shipping info.

After 2 1/2 years, the motherboard went out. When I contacted HP for maintenance, they said I had to prove I had bought the extended warranty with a receipt, and that the shipping notice was not sufficient. I couldn't prove it, so it's now a paperweight in my closet and I'll never buy anything from HP again.

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#281322 - 12/03/09 12:19 PM Re: Laptops [Re: CatBrat]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
I wasn't sure if you were interested in a Mac, but I have my choice of laptops at work, pretty much. I have a Thinkpad T61p and a Macbook Pro (which, I will admit, is a bit newer). I use the Thinkpad only when I need the extra screen real estate to remote control computers. Otherwise, I spend all of my laptop time on the Macbook. If I had a T400s, it would be the same.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#281326 - 12/03/09 01:23 PM Re: Laptops [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Will Netbooks with the Atom processor run Office?
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#281331 - 12/03/09 01:41 PM Re: Laptops [Re: tomtuttle]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Yes, the Atom is fine for Office. Get one with nVidia's ION chipset and it'll play Blu-rays.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#281335 - 12/03/09 02:27 PM Re: Laptops [Re: ClubNeon]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
The one netbook I tried (a Dell Mini 10v) I just about threw through a window. Now, I was predisposed not to like it anyway, but here were the main problems:

1. The trackpad was terrible. Obviously the designers never used it during the design/testing phase. They tried to make it like the no button Macbook trackpad, but it's only about 1.5" tall, and it's not multitouch, so clicking the button in the lower left moves the cursor to the lower left. And you always run out of room moving the cursor up. Seriously stupid design.

2. The screen is, by definition, dinky. 600 vertical pixels is nothing, especially with a modern OS. Consider the Start menu--this screen isn't big enough to show the whole thing!

It's actually reasonably fast on start up running Windows XP, which surprised me, but with a 1 GB of RAM limitation (thanks, Intel!), there's no way you're going to be running more than one, maybe 2 programs at one time. Browser and email, check, oops, better close one so you can run Word!
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#281336 - 12/03/09 02:38 PM Re: Laptops [Re: PeterChenoweth]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
I really like the Thinkpads. My coworkers use the newer T6x series and those are nice. I really like the X series but you lose the DVD player.

Macbooks are nice but you pay the 'tax'. Don't think of it as only a Mac, you can make it a PC by running Boot Camp or Parallels/VMWare/VirtualBox. My wife runs her Macbook w/ XP and it's pretty much a PC.

I have a Dell Mini 9 and love it, but wish the keyboard was bigger. The 10v is rated well.

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#281340 - 12/03/09 02:49 PM Re: Laptops [Re: oldskoolboarder]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
Oh come on, like you don't pay a tax with a Thinkpad.

The 10v raters must be using a mouse or something...
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#281359 - 12/03/09 04:11 PM Re: Laptops [Re: Ken.C]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
That's cuz the 'raters' the Hackintoshers... ;\)

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#281362 - 12/03/09 04:37 PM Re: Laptops [Re: oldskoolboarder]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Netbooks have their place, and they're certainly *cool*.

But I can't imagine anyone actually using one as a "primary" computer. They are powerful enough, and one can adapt to the smaller keyboard if your hands are small. But the big problem that you can't really adapt to is screen size. On the 9" netbooks I've used, even surfing sites like CNN or this board were an exercise in scrolling patience.

I would think that trying to compose any sort of decently-sized Word or Excel document would be maddening after a short time.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#281365 - 12/03/09 05:39 PM Re: Laptops [Re: PeterChenoweth]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16277
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
 Quote:
Netbooks have their place

I added a link for you. \:\)
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#281366 - 12/03/09 05:47 PM Re: Laptops [Re: pmbuko]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
DOH!

I agree, I wouldn't use a netbook as a primary computer. But as my secondary one, it's great, especially for travel.

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#281498 - 12/05/09 11:18 AM Re: Laptops [Re: oldskoolboarder]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1124
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks, guys! Tons of great info. I would like to have a Mac, but deals are tough to find. Same with Lenovo's. Toshiba deals tend to be everywhere - I'll have to look a little closer at those.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#281502 - 12/05/09 01:30 PM Re: Laptops [Re: real80sman]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I have had no problems whatsoever with the dell inspiron laptop. I bought one for my wife last Christmas and it has performed perfectly.

Dell is running some pretty good deals on their laptops over the next several days.

Dell has an Inspiron 15for only $499 through tomorrow only, and can be customized with extra features if you want. This is what I did for my wife last year, but upgraded it to a faster processor, added a bit of ram and up graded the screen to glossy 1440x900

link to dells deal page here:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/days_of_deals?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

They did re-design their inspiron laptops last year.
_________________________
-David

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#281554 - 12/06/09 09:55 AM Re: Laptops [Re: terzaghi]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
We had a Dell plant here in Winston-Salem. The local city government paved the way several years ago with incentives to Dell Corporate in exchange for increasing the number of Jobs. Now, with the economy the way it is, Dell has closed down the plant and an ugly battle ensues over payback of the incentives. The local atmosphere is anti-Dell.

On a positive note, my youngest daughter got a Macbook Pro 13" as her college laptop this past summer. We were so impressed with it that I ordered one for my wife on Black Friday. Apple had a special one day deal where the Pro was $101 cheaper and the Windows Office Suite was only $99 installed. It shipped from Shanghai on Monday and was in our driveway on Thursday. Merry Christmas. When our Gateway desktop dies, it will most likely be replaced with another Apple product.

Having said all that, has anyone replaced Vista with Windows 7? Is it difficult to do?
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#281562 - 12/06/09 11:39 AM Re: Laptops [Re: Argon]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
It's very easy to upgrade from Vista to 7--just about as easy as going from MacOS X 10.5 to 10.6. ;\) But seriously, MS did a bang up job on the upgrade process. It checks for incompatible programs, asks you to uninstall them, and then does its thing. It's pretty quick, as far as Windows installs go--or at least compared to the eternal XP install.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#281635 - 12/07/09 08:00 AM Re: Laptops [Re: Ken.C]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6832
Loc: PEI, Canada
I've been looking for a personal notebook to replace the heavy, corporate security laden, Compaq nc6400 I normally drag around so I've been doing a lot of research and doing 'hands on' with everyone I see who has a newer model. I'm pretty convinced that you can't go wrong with an Asus if you take the time to get the model that suits you. in fact, that might be their only problem, they have sooo many models it gets very confusing. Luckily or unluckily, I'm limited in my choices in Canada. As pointed out by the reliability matrix, they have an excellent maintenance record but one should still note that just like every other company, the return rate increases as you drop down into the cheaper models like netbooks. In short, they are tops in their respective classes but you still get what you pay for.

Right now, I need a little more power than a cheap Atom powered netbook but I desire the portability. For just a bit more, you can get one with a much more robust chipset. Since I'm not in a hurry, I'm holding off until the first of next year to see see if the new Atom processors are truly more powerful or just more power efficient.

In another plug for Asus, the new "seashell" designed models are truly thin and the most elegant looking I have seen up close so far, if that is a factor for you.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#281666 - 12/07/09 01:03 PM Re: Laptops [Re: real80sman]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: real80sman
Thanks, guys! Tons of great info. I would like to have a Mac, but deals are tough to find. . . .


Mac deals are just about impossible to find. They don't really go on sale like other computers. At least, not usually. At best, you can hope for free shipping or discounts on software - like they did for Black Friday. But there is an option; check out the genuine Apple certified refurbs at store.apple.com.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

Both of my Macs were purchased from here. I saved almost $1,000 vs. MSRP by doing so. Pretty much eliminated the "Mac Tax". Same warranty as new, same service as new, same parts as new. Both my Macbook Air and Macbook Pro were indistinguishable from new. No scrapes, no scuffs, no scratches, no marks of any kind; neither on the notebook itself nor the power adapter. No fingerprints, no crumbs in the keyboard, no discharge cycles on the battery, no stuck or dead pixels in the display, etc.

YMMV, of course, but in both of my cases, the notebooks truly were as good as "new". When I eventually need to replace the Macbooks that I currently have, I won't hesitate to buy another refurb.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#281687 - 12/07/09 04:08 PM Re: Laptops [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
I would look keep a watch at Best Buy. In the week leading up to Black Friday, Best Buy had the same discount that Apple offered on Black Friday. The Macbooks were discounted $100 and the software was discounted $50. Don't know if they will rerun or not.....
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#281688 - 12/07/09 04:12 PM Re: Laptops [Re: Murph]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Murph,

Yes, I researched Asus and I agree the plethora of models was confusing. As it turned out, the one I wanted wasn't available in Canada so I ordered it in the US. It's blazingly fast and runs much cooler than my cranky old hp (the latter lost its hard drive after about 18 months, out of warranty, of course). It came with Vista and so far, it's been working great. Also thinner and lighter than my old hp and the special battery modes extend working time up to about 5 hours. It has features I have not even tried yet--something called LightScribe, which labels discs you burn.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#281715 - 12/08/09 02:05 AM Re: Laptops [Re: alan]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I've been lightscribing discs for years now, it works pretty good, just have to keep them out of the heat otherwise the image fades.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#281723 - 12/08/09 09:39 AM Re: Laptops [Re: jakewash]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5871
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I've had 2 computers with lightscribing ability, but it always looked like I had to buy the software to do this with. (I haven't checked in a couple of years). Is there a free download for the software? One computer didn't come with any, and my other one I built myself.

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#281730 - 12/08/09 10:39 AM Re: Laptops [Re: jakewash]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Jay,

That's interesting. Thanks for the tip.

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#281734 - 12/08/09 11:39 AM Re: Laptops [Re: alan]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Bleh. Who needs Lightscribe when you have a



;\)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#281735 - 12/08/09 11:54 AM Re: Laptops [Re: PeterChenoweth]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Ah! So YOU're the one who stole my pen!
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#281736 - 12/08/09 12:05 PM Re: Laptops [Re: EFalardeau]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
We even get COLORED sharpies, sometimes.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#281737 - 12/08/09 12:21 PM Re: Laptops [Re: tomtuttle]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
We even get COLORED sharpies, sometimes.


Wow. Lucky! \:\)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#281738 - 12/08/09 12:29 PM Re: Laptops [Re: PeterChenoweth]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
 Originally Posted By: PeterChenoweth
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
We even get COLORED sharpies, sometimes.

Wow. Lucky! \:\)

Yeah, but would you see a difference in a double blinded test?
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#281743 - 12/08/09 01:16 PM Re: Laptops [Re: EFalardeau]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
I can never find my black sharpies.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#281763 - 12/08/09 03:15 PM Re: Laptops [Re: Ken.C]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Here is Lightscribe's web site for more info. Their program works but I use Nero.

http://www.lightscribe.com/
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#283356 - 12/21/09 09:55 PM Re: Laptops - UPDATE! [Re: jakewash]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1124
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Well, I ended up buying this Toshiba. It was within budget, and in the top half of the reliability matrix. My wife made me wrap it and put it under the tree, so no play time yet!

Thanks again for all your help.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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