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#281583 - 12/06/09 01:14 PM Yikes, Dad wants a Bose!
BobG Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 82
Loc: Rock Springs, WI
My Dad has announced that he wants a Bose for Christmas. He says he has researched them (ie, he has seen their ads and infomercials...) and is convinced he wants one. Of course, I am not convinced. He is 85 years old and wants to listen to his music more often, which is great. I would like to try to convince him subtly that he can get way better sound for the same money with some Axiom bookshelves and a basic stereo receiver. He can use his dvd player to play the audio CD's. This is obvious to you and me, but I know it will be diffidult to convince him since he is believing in the magic of Bose.

It looks like I can get some M22's and a Sherwood Newcastle RX-770 receiver here for about $675. a little more than the Bose, but insignificant considering the upgrade.

Room size is large, probably 14 x20 or more, but the budget is set at $675. Bigger speakers are not an option regardless of room size.

So, do you guys see any better options than the M-22's and SN RX-770? Time is a factor also, as Christmas is nearing. I guess I am answering my own questions as I type, but I am just wondering if anybody has any different/better ideas in the price range?
_________________________
M60's Rotel Nad Music Hall MMF-5
M80's VP150 QS8's Sherwood Newcastle Panasonic Plasma
Algonquins

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#281584 - 12/06/09 01:26 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BobG]
duckman Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 312
Loc: kansas
M3's would be a less expensive option, and closer to the blose in size. My only concern would be this- older people generaly have hearing loss in the higher freq.'s , and 22's would would compensate slightly in that direction.
Your anti-blose argument can be the room is wayy to big for blose, and youd be right.
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Just say No to HDMI

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#281585 - 12/06/09 01:28 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BobG]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 761
Loc: Toronto
Unfortunately, your dad has drunk the "Kool-Aid" of Bose marketing which is basically what they are(a marketing company), not much more.

When people ask me about their products I basically mention two drawbacks to buying their equipment: 1. It is "gimmicky" and too expensive. 2.When has one ever seen any "reputable" A/V publication(internet or magazine) review their equipment? You would be hard pressed to find one.

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#281586 - 12/06/09 01:39 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BobG]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
That combination will be excellent.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#281589 - 12/06/09 01:43 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: casey01]
Wid Online   confused
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Years ago Stereophile did a review on the 901s.

I would opt for the M3s if you're not going to have a sub in the mix.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#281596 - 12/06/09 02:29 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Wid]
FordPrefect Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Ancaster, Ontario
Part of me thinks that if your dad, at age 85 wants a Bose system then by all means get it for him. In the end it should be about what makes him happy.
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getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s

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#281597 - 12/06/09 02:35 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: FordPrefect]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
But what if he would be more happy with a system which sounds better?

Just because my grandmother was happy when she got a "free" cruise, doesn't mean we didn't reverse the charges on her credit card, and set her up with proper travel arrangements which in the end cost less.

Bose operates a scam which takes money from the uninformed and should be treated as such.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#281598 - 12/06/09 03:53 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: ClubNeon]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
My Dad bought a Bose 3-2-1 system a few years ago, I did some FR sweeps and was astonished(not really) how bad they are, the Bass module plays alot of voices through it and the XO is around 250hz, luckily the system is now dead and I get to put a quality system in the house for them.

I think the M22s/SN would be a great system, just bump up the bass a few db to get the same sense of extra bass that the M3s create only with the extra clarity the M22s present.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
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#281600 - 12/06/09 04:22 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: jakewash]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
I dislike Bose as much as anyone, but a big factor might be simplicity in comparison to a separate receiver and disc player.... and he may or may not want to admit that.

Anyone still make some nice-quality receiver/disc player combos as an option? Even if it's only 30 wpc or something, it would likely serve him just fine!
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#281601 - 12/06/09 05:03 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: MarkSJohnson]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
The M3's would be great for this purpose. I see on the axiom website they have 30% of their sherwood newcastle receivers with a purchase(s) right now.
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I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#281603 - 12/06/09 06:18 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BlueJays1]
BobG Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 82
Loc: Rock Springs, WI
I should claify, the Bose my Dad wants is a Bose wave radio type
thing, not something with full speakers (if Bose even makes those anymore)

Anyway, I am not very familiar with the M3's and am surprised to hear some recommending them over the M-22's. The M3's have more base? Actually, the M3's may be more desireable if the sound compromise is acceptable, as I assume one issue my parents may have with the M22's is that they are "too big"

I have been on these forums for 5 years and I think this may be the first time I have seen you guys actually recommend going with a smaller speaker!
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M80's VP150 QS8's Sherwood Newcastle Panasonic Plasma
Algonquins

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#281604 - 12/06/09 06:20 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BlueJays1]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5802
Loc: Some random location
I had a set of Bose 901's along with a 250 wpc Bose amp back in mid 70 to early 80. Then the price, with military discount was about $1500 for the pair, I think. At the time, I thought it was a great sounding system. I've not heard 901's in years, but I remember listening to the 301, 501 and the stuff they sell today for PC's and HT and it just sounds like c.r.a.p. But this leaves me wondering if the 901's back in the 70's were "different" that what they sell today?

I would like to see the research done on the 901's. I'm going to search for it and see what it says.

Ok, I read the article mentioned earlier in this thread. There was a lot of sound theory discussed there concerning the Bose 901 reflective sound, but nothing convincing that it was no good, to me at least. If a person was considering Bose, I think they would have to go the 901 route and have an adequate room to put it in. A lot of gripes on this system was room response concerning inadequate rooms.

Here's the last 2 paragraphs on that article:

"We don't wish to give the impression, though, that the 901 is a dull-sounding system. You can, of course, make it sound that way via the treble-cut settings on the equalizer, or you can make it sound hard and zippy at the top, but with the equalizer set for flattest response (according to Bose's curves, and our ears), the 901 has much of the brilliance of a typical horn system, but without the "horny" midrange coloration.

If we were to judge the 901 in terms of the best sound available, then, we would say that it produces a more realistic semblance of natural ambience than any other speaker system, but we would characterize it as unexceptional in all other respects. It is ideal for rock enthusiasts to whom sheer sonic impact is of paramount importance, and for classical listeners who want the next best thing to ambient stereo without the cost and the bother of rear-channel add-ons. However, we doubt that the 901 will appeal to perfectionists who have developed a taste for subtleties of detail and timbre."


Edited by CatBrat (12/06/09 06:53 PM)

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#281620 - 12/07/09 01:16 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BobG]
HAY Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 720
Loc: Burlington, Ontario
My dad bought the bose radio a couple years ago and couldn't be happier with the size, simplicity and sound.

When I was visiting him he was eager to show it to me knowing what I had at home and having heard it. I must say... the wave radio was pretty good. For his use of back ground music in the kitchen it serves him well and much better than a receiver and speakers due to space and set up.

Also, the M3's are pretty big...you wouldn't be saving much space compared to the M22.
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M60 VP150 QS8
Open for Auditions but please don't drool on the High Gloss

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#281626 - 12/07/09 02:05 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: HAY]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
There's always Audiobytes. Sure, he'd need an external source, but they sure sound good!
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#281629 - 12/07/09 02:29 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Ken.C]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
The 901's are actually pretty decent speakers, but overpriced.

The Wave Radio sounds pretty nice for what it is, but again way overpriced.

I like the idea of using Audiobytes and a decent CD player hooked up to it. It would surely sound better than a Wave Radio.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#281630 - 12/07/09 02:35 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: jakewash]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
I'm sorry, I disagree about the Wave Radio--it sounds horrible to me. Bloated bass coming from a plastic box.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#281631 - 12/07/09 05:34 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Ken.C]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Let me rephrase that, sounds better than most all-in-one radios(like clock radio etc) I have heard, not micro/mini cd radio systems.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#281646 - 12/07/09 09:28 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: jakewash]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5802
Loc: Some random location
If it were me, I'd just get him the bose radio. At least he'd be happy with it. Tell him how great it sounds instead. Consider his age.

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#281648 - 12/07/09 09:33 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: CatBrat]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6740
Loc: PEI, Canada
Good point, I'd probably research other 'all in one' units just because I would hate to encourage Bose by giving it more money but in the end, making him happy is probably more important.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#281650 - 12/07/09 09:56 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Murph]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6600
Loc: It's all about the location.
Some good points brought up here. If it were my father, I would present him with a couple of alternatives(mentioned already) as well as why they might be a better choice, and then leave the decision to him without trying to force my own ideas. As mentioned, he's 85, and it's more important he's happy about the speakers than you/I am.
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#281655 - 12/07/09 10:06 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Adrian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
Maybe a Tivoli.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#281673 - 12/07/09 01:37 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BobG]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 761
Loc: Toronto
This type of discussion always gets us back to reality when individuals who comment in these forums and take more than a passing interest in this hobby unfortunately are still a relatively small minority of today's consumer electronics customers. People like your dad represent the "mainstream" who are subject to the whims of marketing like Bose who do it very well. WE ask "who in their right mind would spend $600 on a kitchen radio", yet many do.

I have to catch myself when I might be talking to a friend or family member who just purchased a new television monitor or surround system and I start talking about proper connections, setting it up properly etc. etc.

The vast majority of time when I mention something the "least" bit technical about it you can see their eyes start to "glaze over" and I know then it is time to shut-up!

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#281674 - 12/07/09 01:50 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: casey01]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
 Originally Posted By: casey01
their eyes start to "glaze over"

We need an emoticon for that!
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#281676 - 12/07/09 02:01 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: EFalardeau]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6740
Loc: PEI, Canada
This is close.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#281677 - 12/07/09 02:02 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Murph]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
I picture a drooling Homer when he's thinking of either beer or donuts.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#281680 - 12/07/09 02:39 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: St_PatGuy]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
Now THAT one I've got handy!


_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#281681 - 12/07/09 02:55 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: MarkSJohnson]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Perfecto!
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#281696 - 12/07/09 05:34 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Ken.C]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Maybe a Tivoli.


As the resident fan of Tivoli products, +1. ;\)

And their radio receivers even have a little bit of that "old-time" radio feel to them; with the wooden cabinet, big analog tuner knob, and simple operation. He might like that, if he listens to the radio at all. And a complete Tivoli setup with Radio + CD + sub isn't much more than a B{l}ose Wave Radio. And it will (does, from experience) sound fantastic as a small Bedroom|Den|Office system. http://www.tivoliaudio.com/home.php

But....This is a tough one.

I can completely understand the, "Bose is crap. You must steer him towards something good," argument. I would make it myself, and have with several friends & family members over the years, usually with good results.

But having dealt with {grand}parents of that age, I can also completely understand the, "He's 85 and he wants a Bose system. Happiness is important," stance. If it's what he wants, then perhaps that's what you should get him. My grandfather always drove Buicks. Even during the dark days of Buick, when the competition was so much better. I used to ask, "why do you drive a Buick when you could get a Cadillac, or a Mercedes, or a Lincoln, or {whatever}?". With {whatever} being the latest luxury car that the likes of Car & Driver or Automobile had favorably reviewed. Because he always drove Buick's, and that's what made him happy. I used to not understand it, but I think I do now. That's worth something. Sometimes the superior choice isn't the right one.

But then again, friends don't let friends buy Bose. So ...
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#281702 - 12/07/09 07:37 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: PeterChenoweth]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Very well stated, Peter,

I like the Tivoli idea, too.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#281705 - 12/07/09 09:29 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: St_PatGuy]
Ukiah Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Ontario
Your father is in his 80’s, and he most likely will never her the difference between the Bose system and an Axiom / receiver combo. For the matter, he might not hear the difference between either of these choices and a simple clock radio. Get the Bose, let him smile, at least he made the choice himself and that counts for something, particularly at this stage of his life. .
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#281714 - 12/08/09 12:16 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Ukiah]
SirQuack Online   shocked
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I'd say the Bose Acoustic Wave Radio would be an option, my father-in-law loves his, Gooooood Day....RIP Paul Harvey
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#281720 - 12/08/09 09:23 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: SirQuack]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
My father-in-law has two of the low profile Wave Radios -- one in the kitchen and one in his bedroom -- and a Bose 3-2-1 system in the living room. He's happy with all of them, but the 1-2-3 system is particularly painful for me to listen to. The Bass unit is so bloaty and there must be a huge gap in the midrange that just isn't covered.

He readily admits that my speakers are better, and has shown interest in having me put together a system for him, but it's not on his priority list. \:\(
_________________________
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#281725 - 12/08/09 10:04 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: pmbuko]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
Oh yeah, he just had to go and get the Vette first, didn't he. Some people.
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I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#281783 - 12/08/09 06:05 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Ken.C]
BobG Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 82
Loc: Rock Springs, WI
Hey Guys, Thanks for all the responses. I think I agree with those of you who have suggested getting Dad the Bose that he wants. He likely won't appreciate the speaker/receiver system (after all he still wears his old dress shoes with his jeans). Ironically, looking back at my Christmas's as a kid I used to get mad at my parents for buying me what they wanted me to have and not what I asked for. Maybe subliminally I was trying to get them back! Or maybe they trained me really well!

Perhaps the best gift I can give him is a compliment on how good the Bose sounds, and ask him if he will trade the Bose for one of my Axiom systems! I guess I will leave it at that.

Thanks again for all of your responses. Merry Christmas
_________________________
M60's Rotel Nad Music Hall MMF-5
M80's VP150 QS8's Sherwood Newcastle Panasonic Plasma
Algonquins

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#281795 - 12/08/09 09:05 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: BobG]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
 Originally Posted By: BobG
ask him if he will trade the Bose for one of my Axiom systems!

And if he says "Hell Yes! That was my plan all along, Sucka!" what'll you do? \:\)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#281797 - 12/08/09 09:10 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: MarkSJohnson]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
\:D

That would be awesome. I mean, sure, that would suck for BobG, but pure gold for us!!
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#281815 - 12/09/09 08:01 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: St_PatGuy]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
I think it is awesome that your father can still do this kind of research and make a decision on this subject at that age. You may not realize how lucky you are. I didn't have any of my grandparents live past 83 and non of them was ever in a condition that I could have a conversation about audio equipment. I guess I would just be happy to be alive at age 85.

If your father wants the four letter word audio manufacturer, get it for him. It may not be the best value, but he'll be more likely to use it and enjoy it, because it was his idea.

paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#281819 - 12/09/09 08:07 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: Worfzara]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
My MIL just renewed her drivers license a couple of days ago, she's like 78 and upon receiving her license the issuing officer said "Congratulations ... you're good to drive until 2018!"


_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#281931 - 12/09/09 07:22 PM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: RickF]
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
My Mom is a very young 87 and still drives.
She is probably a better driver than some of the youngsters racing around town

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#281957 - 12/10/09 01:04 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: MarkSJohnson]
BigHonu Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 198
Loc: In the middle of the sea
 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
 Originally Posted By: BobG
ask him if he will trade the Bose for one of my Axiom systems!

And if he says "Hell Yes! That was my plan all along, Sucka!" what'll you do? \:\)


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#281980 - 12/10/09 08:35 AM Re: Yikes, Dad wants a Bose! [Re: RickF]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6740
Loc: PEI, Canada
 Originally Posted By: RickF
My MIL just renewed her drivers license a couple of days ago, she's like 78 and upon receiving her license the issuing officer said "Congratulations ... you're good to drive until 2018!"


I may have mentioned this before but I once was rear ended by a lady while I waited for a freight train to rumble by directly in front of me. When I got out to inspect the damage, this little old woman hobbled up to me and said "Well Dear, Why are you stopped in the middle of the road?" I was speechless. All I could do was point at the train full of rebar steel that continued to thunder by.
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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