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#282323 - 12/14/09 01:47 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: grunt]
Seekinganswers Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 97
So from what I've gathered so far, any decent priced receiver should be able to drive these speakers with good sound quality at normal listening level. That is more than enough for my needs right now because I am more interested in detail than just pure volume. This eases a lot of my concerns and will save me a lot of money not having to extra for a pre/pro and amp off the bat.

I do have a soft spot for my 606. I think it's a stout little beast. Maybe I under estimated it after reading about so many high-end gear. Maybe it is my current speakers that are the culprits. No offense to polk lovers, but I just feel like my current speakers are a bit anemic and attempts to put out sounds they can't produce. The sound seems a little artificial to me.

Seeking
_________________________
Speakers: Energy RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-Rs and eD A2-300 x 2.
Receiver: Marantz 6006

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#282325 - 12/14/09 01:59 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: Seeking

If you feel like the 606 is more than enough to drive these speaks, then I am more than willing to pull the trigger. I just had my reservations, being somewhat new to this and all.



While not perfect this discussion and calculator below will give you some idea of how amp power relates to loudness and what’s considered normal for various types of music.

http://www.churchsoundguy.com/2009/05/how-much-amplifier-power-do-i-need.html

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

So roughly a pair of m60s (93dB in room efficiency) at 11” could play on your 606 at 80dB with 10dB of headroom for dynamic peaks. Now I’m not going to say that more headroom wouldn't help some but I would wait until you decide if you need more power to buy it. Speakers technology isn’t going to suddenly take a leap however, the electronics side is rapidly changing so IMO your better off getting the speaker you want and worry about upgrading the electronics when you really feel you need to.

This talks about noise levels and exposure time for hearing loss. Keep in mind European guidelines are more strict. Also the frequency is also a factor but I would worry about that if your already near the damage threshold.

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm




Edited by grunt (12/14/09 02:07 AM)
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#282326 - 12/14/09 01:59 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: Seekinganswers]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10411
Seek, there was no reason to be offended, since I was referring to not playing source materials at levels that would permanently damage your hearing.

The great thing about the modern audio scene is how we can get great sound from relatively modest cost equipment such as Axiom speakers and many receivers(such as the 606)which supply transparent amplification without the need to spend "so much money".

One answer that I'll again submit is that we shouldn't exhibit the anthropomorphic tendency to assign human characteristics to inanimate equipment. I've seen on some other audio forums that newcomers have been chastised for not giving their speakers the power that they "deserve". All that's necessary is to have enough maximum power capacity so that the split-second peaks above the 1 watt or so needed for a comfortably loud average level can be accomodated.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#282327 - 12/14/09 02:04 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: Seekinganswers]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: Seekinganswers
So from what I've gathered so far, any decent priced receiver should be able to drive these speakers with good sound quality at normal listening level. That is more than enough for my needs right now because I am more interested in detail than just pure volume. This eases a lot of my concerns and will save me a lot of money not having to extra for a pre/pro and amp off the bat.

I do have a soft spot for my 606. I think it's a stout little beast. Maybe I under estimated it after reading about so many high-end gear. Maybe it is my current speakers that are the culprits. No offense to polk lovers, but I just feel like my current speakers are a bit anemic and attempts to put out sounds they can't produce. The sound seems a little artificial to me.

Seeking


IMO you are correct that any decent priced receiver will drive the system you are looking at just fine. So I would make the electronics choice based on features you want rather than just power. Also since you already have a capable receiver try it out first to see if you really think you need more power. My pocketbook has learned from experience to take things one step at a time in this hobby because often what you think you need you really don’t. It might be “nice” but not “necessary.”

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#282328 - 12/14/09 02:13 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: grunt]
Seekinganswers Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 97
Dean,

Thanks for the insight on taking it one bit at a time. I think I got so caught up on getting everything at once and getting the best I can afford, even if I couldn't afford it.

I will try these speakers out with my current receiver, and I may just be happy with it to hold me off from upgrading anything for a little while. I do have a lot of love for my 606, I just wish I could say the same for my polks. I guess that is why I am here on this forum \:\)

Seeking
_________________________
Speakers: Energy RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-Rs and eD A2-300 x 2.
Receiver: Marantz 6006

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#282329 - 12/14/09 02:20 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: Seekinganswers]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Sounds like a good plan. I was in the same boat as you and the Axiom sales rep talked me down from an EP600 to an EP500 and from 7.1 to 5.1 both of which were good calls. However, later I gave in and got 2 more QS8s for 7.1 and only then realized that the QS speakers were so good that 5.1 really had been enough. But not all was lost now my 2nd pair of QS8s are my front “Height” speakers.

Also if you have the option don’t overlook buying from the factor outlet (FO). All 11 of my Axiom speakers are FO and came w/o any issues. At most some people have had very minor cosmetic issues. So consider it if you haven’t.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#282354 - 12/14/09 10:24 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: Seekinganswers]
Eric Crowder Offline
regular

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 5
 Originally Posted By: Seekinganswers
My current home theater is located in my living room area that is 14'x14' that is somewhat sectioned off by a bar area that connects to the kitchen, so the whole area, I would say, is about 14'x32'x8'. I usually sit 10-12 feet away from the tv.

I will eventually add the Emotiva processor and amp to the system, but I am hoping the 606 will do the job for now. I am more concerned with clarity than how loud I can get the system. I live in a townhouse with a roommate and neighbors.

I guess what I am looking for is the wow factor with these speakers, even if they're driven by the 606. I have an entry polk audio system and they served me okay for a while. Now that I am seriously learning about home theater, the polks no longer cut the cheese.

Please advise

Seeking





Everyone is totally missing the biggest problem with your setup, and believe me I know because I have the same problem....

Townhouse/neighbors. You say you normally listen at normal levels. The problem with movies, especially the blockbusters that we all love like the new Terminator, transformers, etc..., is that the dynamic range is so large, when you're listening to dialog at moderate levels, once the robots, aliens, enemy start to blow stuff up and shoot, it's gunna almost blow the roof off your townhouse. This is why we LOVE home theater, but your neighbor isn't going to love it. In the town house, all the LFE energy from the sub is going to transfer through the building materials into their home. There's no amount of sound proofing that will prevent this. They're going to be hearing(and feeling) boom boom boom during your movies (and music depending on what you're listening to). Just something to think about before you spend a lot of money. I'm starting to think of moving to a detached house with lots of space between neighbors so I can enjoy my HT at reference levels with out the constant guilt and eventual complaints.

-eric

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#282356 - 12/14/09 11:43 AM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: Seekinganswers]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Seekinganswers
So from what I've gathered so far, any decent priced receiver should be able to drive these speakers with good sound quality at normal listening level. That is more than enough for my needs right now because I am more interested in detail than just pure volume. This eases a lot of my concerns and will save me a lot of money not having to extra for a pre/pro and amp off the bat.


Hi Seeking - I am 9 months into Axiom ownership so far. I also moved from entry level Polks into the Axiom W series. I did a crude A/B comparison when I first received the W22's and W150 with a much smaller and inferior amp compared to the Onkyo you currently have. The difference between the Polks and Axioms was incredible. I could hear nuances to guitar and string instruments that were just non-existent with the Polks. The reason why I say all of this is because 1) the W series is a compromise compared to the M60's you are considering and 2) the amp I was using at the time was inferior to your Onkyo and my experience was still a fantastic improvement - so it stands to reason with a better amp and better speakers you should be very pleased with the improvement you will get in sound quality.

Keep us posted and good luck with your purchase decisions1

Cheers,
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#282363 - 12/14/09 12:50 PM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: cb919]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Seeking, the biggest component to any system are the speakers, next would be the room environment and lastly the equipment driving it. If you look at tube amps most run very low power 30-50W and achieve great sound through efficient speakers like Axioms. Rest easy and try out the M60s.

I would suggest buying the M60s to see if you like the Axiom sound and if you approve of the M60 buy the rest of the system, if you complete all the purchases within the 30 day trial period you will still receive the 5% HT discount, I would ask about this but it applied to my purchases.

If the M60's do not WOW you, you can then trade up to the M80 and still only pay for the price difference between the M60 and M80s, Axiom covers the cost of shipping for both items and the prevoiusly mentioned 5% HT deal should still apply.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#282367 - 12/14/09 02:08 PM Re: Set on Axiom speakers, need avice [Re: jakewash]
Seekinganswers Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 97
Eric,

When I am watching movies by myself, I try to be courteous to my roommate and neighbors. Whenever I decide to indulge my aural senses, I usually invite my roommate to come enjoy the movie with me. He knows about my new obsession with audio gear and supports this hobby.

As far as my neighbor goes, he is a co-worker of mine and sometimes he plays his audio pretty loud so there is a mutual understanding there. Haha, I just have a feeling he'll be less understanding once I get the new speakers. I just don't try to abuse my privileges. My roommate is also my co-worker and a good friend.

The best thing about all this is the tower is 24/7 and so most of the time we all work opposing shifts, so all I have to do is look out the window for my neighbor's car and I am good to go.

Cb919,

I feel so much more at ease from reading your post. If you say your upgrade was night and day, then I am confident my 606 will be fine. I feel bad because I only had my 606 less than a year and my eyes have already wandered. I need to spend more quality time with her and show her more love.

Jakewash,

From all the positive reviews I've read on these speakers, I really have no doubt I will love these speakers. And it would be pretty hard to find anything close to the quality I read about at the same price. So when I do save up enough money for them, I am just going to order all the speakers at once because I don't want to audition the M60s, fall in love with them, and wait an excruciating 3-4 weeks extra for the rest of the speakers. If I don't like them, shipping won't be so bad for me.

I have been torn for a long while between the M22s, M60s, and M80s. At one point I wanted to save money and go with the M22s but having to get stands for them was a turn off for me. Then I wanted the M80s but they're a bit harder to drive and I don't listen to two channel music so I believe that would be overkill for me. The M60s are easier to drive and will be perfect for my needs.

Seeking
_________________________
Speakers: Energy RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-Rs and eD A2-300 x 2.
Receiver: Marantz 6006

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