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#284745 - 12/31/09 11:53 PM just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3?
zlabinger Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Hi, I just received my first pair of Axiom speakers - the M22v2. I am struggling with the common theme of being pleased with their upper and mid range clarity and depth, but lack of lower frequencies. I am using them with the Denon AVR-2310ci in a room that is 1,400 CUBIC FEET. Room is 9' HIGH x 11 LONG x 13 WIDE. I'm 9 feet from my 46" Sony Bravia. I will use them for music and film equally. My music interests range from rock to jazz to electronic music. I am impressed with how they handle pop music and jazz, but when I play my ambient music like Steve Roach, Brian Eno, Thomas Koner, vidnaobmana, Peter Gabriel's Passion, Philip Glass, etc, I can tell there is something missing. So my question is, do I stick with these until I've saved enough to buy a sub? Or do I exchange these for the M3s. I do like warmth in my music, and I do have music that demands lower frequencies. Will I be missing out in the long run if I part with the M22s? It sounds like if I am patient and wait to get a decent sub, that my appetite for warmth, "wall of sound", deep boom and thump will be solved. I am sorry for launching into a list of concerns and negative feedback with my first posting. My positive feedback is I can tell there is real craft and artistry in these speakers. There is such detail and clarity in the mid range it's remarkable. Miles Davis' Kind of Blue- AMAZING! Hall & Oates "Maneater" has terrific brightness and lift. I can hear singers gasp and breathe in songs that I have listened to a million times. But I am aiming for atmosphere and warmth in addition to the brightness and clarity. I listen to a lot of soundtracks and ambient music that live down there. But with that said, even the ambient music has a layer of mid-range nuance, so I don't want to muck that up by parting with the M22 and getting the M3 for a quick fix bass thump because I can't afford a sub right now. Anyway, let me know what your thoughts are. Was my choice in receiver not a good one? I also have a Technics 1200 and will be listening to quite a bit of vinyl since some of my ambient artists are now choosing to release their music exclusively on vinyl. (i.e. Fear Falls Burning, formerly vidnaObmana from Belgium.) I appreciate your time and expertise in advance!

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#284746 - 01/01/10 12:03 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: zlabinger]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Bump the bass setting in the receiver 2-3 db, it helps till you can afford the sub \:\)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#284747 - 01/01/10 12:04 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: zlabinger]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Keep the M22 and get a sub later. I know both the M3 and the M22 and you will not gain anything to go to the M3 for the bass nudge. The M22 has enough bass and better everything else. Wait for the sub.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#284750 - 01/01/10 01:12 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: EFalardeau]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
What Jay and Eric wrote.

The M22 actually reaches a little lower than the M3. A bass boost will give you more apparent bass the way the M3 does.

In the long run, you will be glad you kept the M22.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#284782 - 01/01/10 09:58 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: fredk]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5797
Loc: Some random location
I have purchased both the M3 and M22. I much prefer the M22 over the M3. I am also waiting on getting a sub woofer, but am looking for a temporary cheap one at the moment, either used or a Best Buy cheapie, then upgrade later.

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#284790 - 01/01/10 10:18 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: zlabinger]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6599
Loc: It's all about the location.
Another vote on keeping the M22s and add a sub when your budget allows. Pretty much any bookshelf speaker is limited on lower fq's due to cabinet volume, the 22's are by all accounts, similar to Axioms tower speakers when combined with a half decent sub.

BTW, absolutely nothing wrong with your choice of receivers, Denons are the favourite choice here, for the most part.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#284791 - 01/01/10 10:19 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: CatBrat]
FireGuy Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 309
Loc: Buffalo, New York
If you want a more leaner sound the M22 is it. I've owned my M3ti's for about 2.5 years and very much enjoy their warmness yet detailed and transparent sound...I consider them the bargin of the century (along with) the M22's. IMO I would keep the M22's and add a good sub.
_________________________
FireGuy
M22V3/M3ti/M2V3/Omega Super 5/Aperion 5C/OutlawLFM1+Sub/Denon AVR1906/YamDVDC750/AS AMP110

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#284794 - 01/01/10 10:29 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: zlabinger]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi,

As Jay (Jakewash) pointed out, try using your bass control to boost the lower frequencies. The M22 has dual midrange/woofers so it will handle up to 5 dB or 6 dB of bass boost without complaint.

I think you'll like the added warmth and bass you get with some boost, and you'll still retain the lovely mids and highs.

Another option is to wall-mount the M22s with brackets. The bass boost you get from boundary reinforecement (the wall) is quite effective.

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#284799 - 01/01/10 12:02 PM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: alan]
audiosavant Offline
devotee

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 311
Loc: Worldwide
Keep the M22's!!! Get a good sub!!!

Then you will have full range happiness!

It will change your life, trust me...
_________________________
"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
---Frank Zappa


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#284807 - 01/01/10 01:43 PM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: audiosavant]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5797
Loc: Some random location
One other thing I'd like to point out is the effect different receivers have with the M22. Originally, I had the Sony STR-DH500 ($160, 100 watt), then I sent it back and bought the Pioneer VSX-21TXH ($630, 110 watt). The difference in bass response between using these 2 receivers is like night and day. I get a much fuller sound with the more expensive Pioneer.

But I reread your post and the Denon you're using should have plenty of power.


Edited by CatBrat (01/01/10 01:45 PM)

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#284810 - 01/01/10 02:13 PM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: CatBrat]
zlabinger Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Thanks for all this great info. So if I were to hang the M22's what would be the ideal height be and idea distance from one another be, considering the dimensions of my room. Room is 9' HIGH x 11 LONG x 13 WIDE. I'm 9 feet from my 46" Sony Bravia. How far should the M22s be from the corner of a room. What's too high? What's too low? Would I lose much if the tweeters are 2 feet higher than the traditional ear height?

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#284825 - 01/01/10 02:56 PM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: zlabinger]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Hello Zablinger

I own a pair of M22s, gave away my M3Tis. As stand alone speakers, IMNSHO, there is no comparison ... the M3s are much more enjoyable without a sub. The M22s are excellent speakers though to my ears they sound a bit flat, sterile. The M3s on the other hand are awesome speakers ... Axiom's best in my opinion. The M22s improve greatly with a sub, however, if you intend to wait for a sub, swap those 22s for a pair of 3s.

Good luck to you and welcome.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#284981 - 01/03/10 02:26 AM Re: just got M22s, do I add sub or switch to M3? [Re: 2x6spds]
BigHonu Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 198
Loc: In the middle of the sea
While I really enjoy the sound of my M3's (and don't have M22's yet) I would say to keep the M22's and get a sub. By letting the sub handle the lower, power hungry frequencies, you free up more headroom for the 22's.

Regarding placement in your room, normally, corner loading your speakers will achieve the biggest bass boost. Some frequencies may have a greater gain than others, and your seating position within the room will make a difference at certain frequencies. I believe placement also affects decay, but am not certain what the relationship is. I'm still trying to learn.

Best thing to do is experiment with placement and find a location that sounds good to you.



Edited by BigHonu (01/03/10 02:27 AM)

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