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#300220 - 04/04/10 01:39 AM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: SRoode]
wilwom Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 175
Loc: Denton, TX
I appreciate hearing the body of responses. There are a lot of interesting points made.
1. Total product cost including shipping is more competitive in Alaska and Canada than in the continental USA.
2. Some customers do want all their speakers to have one brand. Some customers don't care.
3. Some loyal Axiom customers are willing to pay a premium and endure multiple product replacements because they have confidence that Axiom will be there to make things right.

Just to clarify it's pretty much the DSP subs where I've followed threads that indicate Axiom shipped product early. SRoode made the point Axiom lost a great deal of money in shipping charges alone to make his EP800s right.

I really do appreciate the Axiom speaker line and the amazing customer service. When I decide to upgrade or add HT speakers Axiom will be my preferred chioce.

The EP600 was on my short list when choosing a new sub 9 months ago. It didn't make my final cut but might have if:
1. it had been a bit less expensive and
2. if I weren't lurking and reading threads about Axiom sub DSP issues at that time.

Axiom has an internet based direct selling approach which seems to be very successful for their line of speakers. I hope they achieve a similar level of success with their subwoofer line.

Bill

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#300274 - 04/04/10 10:49 AM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: michael_d]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7117
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Just because a product is manufactured in China, does not necessarily mean that the product is, well…junk.

Nobody here has suggested that. I was aware (and impressed) that Axiom owned its facility in China before I bought my system. I was also aware that Axiom designed its own drivers rather than OEMing them from someone else.

I remember when people had this same sort of conversation about goods manufactured in Taiwan. I still own a no-name table saw who's fit and finish is every bit as good as the 'North American' brands sold for twice the price at the time. Ian clearly figured out the value of manufacturing in China some time ago, and has taken the important step of maintaining control of the process.

In the end it is about a quality product for the right price. There seems to be a lot more competition in the subwoofer market all the way from DIY to manufactured to OEMed (Outlaw) than there is in the speaker market.

AV123's MFW 15 is an example of what happens in this type of market. The MFW15 is a good design missing the type of quality control Axiom works very hard to maintain. It was damn near a killer product... with absolutely no margins. Margins for some of the best DIY drivers out there are also very thin. Kevin Haskins of Exodos has written as much on one of the forums.

After all that rambling, I had a hard time deciding on a sub, but ended up going for the EP350. It may not be the same 'steal of a deal' that the M80s are, but its still a very competent sub. I got my money's worth.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#300277 - 04/04/10 11:04 AM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: pmbuko]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: pmbuko

Also, many forum members agree with you that the subwoofers are on the expensive side, and have voted with their wallets by buying other brands. You'll often see SVS and Hsu recommended as alternatives (although perhaps not as much as in the past).

I don't agree that they should not have entered and/or should leave the subwoofer market altogether. Subwoofers are speakers -- which Axiom excels at making -- and amps -- which Axiom has proven to be more than competent at making -- all in one box. Seems like a natural marriage, to me.

Yep.



Edited by chesseroo (04/04/10 11:04 AM)
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#300279 - 04/04/10 11:07 AM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: wilwom]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: wilwom

The EP600 was on my short list when choosing a new sub 9 months ago. It didn't make my final cut but might have if:
1. it had been a bit less expensive and
2. if I weren't lurking and reading threads about Axiom sub DSP issues at that time.

Consider buying one on the used market at Audiogon or Canuck Audio Mart.
The prices on used speakers are considerably less (often 30-40% less than new cost) and Axiom has honoured the warranty in the past if a fault of the unit was due to a flaw in the making or design (e.g EP800 amp).
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#300290 - 04/04/10 12:29 PM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: chesseroo]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3167
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
I think it's all about the HT aspect of a system. If there are instances when all of the drivers are firing simualtaneously, I'd rather that they were designed as a "set." They were built to function together, tested that way and with a somewhat compromised (reconciliated?) goal to begin with (HT and Music reproduction).

I've sub'ed my old Snells for my M60's. They just don't do as well when used for HT. That thinking is what made me buy the ep500. If I had the space I'd have a nice $6k pr. right next to my 60's with their own monoblocks and pre-amp. That'd also render the sub less important (for music), 'cause $6k speakers shouldn't be asking for that much bottom.

Even some great mfr.'s out there really only take their well-established and well-received towers and throw in a couple of under R & D'd "surrounds" and a "front." Now you're shelling $10k and up for something that was never really designed as a suround system. Great music---HT, ah, not so much.

Researched, shopped online and real time for 6 months. Lucky enough to have 2 audio high-enders within 25 miles.

If you're not committed to spending twice as much or more, the differences are likely to not be significant enough to justify the added costs.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#300361 - 04/04/10 10:11 PM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: BobKay]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Enjoyed reading through this thread.

I am definitely happy with my ep500 and really want to trade up my ep500 for an ep800 at some point.

I think it would be very strange if axiom sold speakers but not subwoofers...
_________________________
-David

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#300375 - 04/04/10 11:46 PM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: terzaghi]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I bought my EP500 over the competition for a few reasons.

First, Axiom offered a 5 year warranty SVS was 3 years and HSU 7 on the sub and only 2 on the electronics. Since I didn’t know if I would ever end up with a real job (I was on temp orders) I wanted as much purchase protection as possible.

Second, I was sick of speaker shopping after 3 months and if I had to do a return because I didn’t like the Axioms I only wanted to deal with one company.

Third, when I first posted here about making an Axiom purchase several people recommended SVS and HSU might get me “more bang for my buck.” Not only did Axiom let those statements stand but no fanboys shouted them down. So partly out of respect for allowing dissenting opinion (something many other companies squash) I figured what the hell.

Now that the first issue, warranty, is no longer salient I would consider all options if getting another sub.

However, for the price I would be more inclined to go with 2 EP500s/PB12-Plus/ULS-15 or something comparable rather than 1 EP800 as I believe I would benefit more from multiple subs than one more powerful one.

Since the EP800 would, in room, give me 125dB while two EP500s should give me 123dB (Is +3dB a fair estimate for adding a second sub?).

Anechoic (+/-1.5) the EP800 goes down to 13Hz to the EP500 18Hz. (people really finding much below 20Hz?) besides for $400 my Butticker goes down to 5Hz with 1000w beating the crap out of both of them w/o making the rest of the bass to strong. Ask Sean if it worked well for the rumbly scenes. ;\)

2xEP500s will help even out my bass 1xEP800 won’t. How about 4xEP500s vs 2 EP800s. I guess if price were no object 4xEP800 would be nice but I think that extra 5K-7k would rather be an even better projector.

Obviously everyone has there own preferences I try to prioritize mine toward what gives me the most utility value.

Also hardly recommend speaker brands to anyone anymore unless they have a very specific need. It’s just not worth the effort. However, if someone asks about them I highly recommend Axiom.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#300376 - 04/04/10 11:50 PM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: grunt]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Can you even hear 13 Hz or does it simply induce vomiting and confusion?
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#300378 - 04/05/10 12:00 AM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: 2x6spds]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Can you even hear 13 Hz or does it simply induce vomiting and confusion?


Don’t know. They warn against it at work but even doing extended power runs on the engines 4+ hours has never caused me any problems while running ground. The ground shakes which is exactly what the Buttkicker feels like, but I have no way of know what frequencies it’s getting other than below 40Hz where the filter is set.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#300380 - 04/05/10 12:03 AM Re: I don't hesitate to recommend Axiom [Re: grunt]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
I am not aware of any material at the top of my head that hits down to 13hz in the subsonic region, though I'm sure there is stuff out there. You won't be able to hear it, just feel it.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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