Get Free, Friendly, Expert Advice
Call 1-866-244-8796 or email

Designed and Manufactured in Canada Since 1980


AxiomAudio Blog

Sneak Peek into Axiom’s Current Research and Development

Axiom’s Newest Speaker: The In-Ceiling M3

Outdoor Speaker Placement

Wall'O'Fame
Experimental Atmos
Greetings fellow Axiom owners...
Who's Online
2 registered (pmbuko, J. B.), 48 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Financing
Forum Stats
13317 Members
11 Forums
22877 Topics
404363 Posts

Max Online: 378 @ 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Top Posters
Ken.C 17775
pmbuko 16273
SirQuack 13333
CV 11201
MarkSJohnson 10886
Meanwhile On Facebook

So much going on in this month's newsletter - new product announcements, a new v...

Love this comment from Doug T! "The M22 bookshelf speakers sound so clean and a...

󾓶 Andrew has spoken! Big update on the AxiomPlay Wireless Platform on the Axiom...

A New Look For Our Amps and Pre-amps? Adding yet another level of customization...

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#3008 - 05/10/02 09:19 PM Speaker Wire?
kayizm Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 63
I am new to home theater and I just purchased the M22TI speakers and I would like to know what wire (not too expensive but good quality) is recomended for these speakers?
My system so far

Reciever- Denon 1802
Speakers- Fronts -M22TI
DVD- Sony DVPNS700P
TV- Sony KP43HT20

Top
#3009 - 05/11/02 04:45 AM Re: Speaker Wire?
Randyman Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
This topic has been covered in several posts (over and over) recently. As I recall, both Ian and Alan (and I am in agreement) recommend good quality 12 gage stranded copper wire. (and yes you CAN get it at Home Depot or Radio Shack - and even Monster Cable will work just fine!) I know Ravi is enamered with some stuff from Kimber Cable - but I believe you would be better served to put your $ in good equipment and not overpriced "exotic" speaker wire.

Good Luck

Randyman

Top
#3010 - 05/13/02 09:10 AM Re: Speaker Wire?
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
Randyman

My Kimber 4PR is more detailed than my Phoenix Gold 12 Ga, especially in the upper range of sounds. However, since it's about $3 a foot, I wouldn't recommend buying it at that price. I bought stuff from Marc at audioshop.on.ca, and he has a special where you get speakers, stands, and Kimber 4PR. It was WELL worth it!

Top
#3011 - 05/13/02 11:05 PM Re: Speaker Wire?
Randyman Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Ravi,

Sorry if I sounded like I was putting you or your opinion down about the speaker wire. That was NOT my intention! Everyone comes to their own decisions based on their particular experiences, background, wants, needs, etc.

Personally I have never been able to really hear any difference in good quality 12 gage wire vs some of the exotics (but it has been a few years since I have had an oppurtunity)

What I would really like to know is HOW you can go about doing a quick(?) and efficient A/B test of different wire and keep everything else constant. (amp, speakers, speaker placement, etc). Given the human ears ability to adjust to sounds and the short acoustic memory that goes with it, I just have trouble understanding how one can make such comparisons. Again, not trying to put your experiences down - I'm just wanting to understand the process that brought you to your conclusions about the sound differences.

Thanks!

Randyman

Top
#3012 - 05/14/02 01:12 PM Re: Speaker Wire?
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
Randyman

hey, don't worry about it. I was just letting you know how I ended up with the wire.

here's how I tested the difference:

I placed my M22s (i also did this with my m3's but with much less time and attention) on stands, and left the stands exactly in the same place. Trust me, they didn't move, there's spikes on the bottom sticking into my floor. I put on recordings I know VERY well and have heard on many different systems, and that are well recorded.

Here's the cables I used:

16 ga phoenix gold
12 ga phoenix gold
22 ga mic cable
14 ga Kimber 4PR

they were barewire connected on both the speaker and amp end.

With each cable, I listened to several 1 or 2 minute clips of songs. Then, I would wire one speaker with, say, 16 ga, and one with 12 ga. then, one with 12 ga, and one with 4pr. then, one with 22 ga, one with 16 ga, and so on and so forth. I tried all the combinations. I also tried using 12 ga or 16 ga AND 22 ga at the same time. Here's my conclusions:

the 22 ga wire was really clean, but had a really hard time letting any kind of bass through and the speakers didnt play loud at all.

the 16 ga i didn't like at all. the sound wasn't as detailed as the 22 ga, though there was more bass.

the 12 ga was very good. I definitely could hear the sound being fuller in all ranges, but mostly the bass. It offered the most bass of all these cables.

the 14 ga Kimber 4PR was better for treble and midrange, but there was slightly less volume in the bass than the 12 ga. It was most evident on piano's and classical music.

When I combined cables (12 ga or 16 ga with 22 ga), I could not honestly say I heard a difference. There migh thave been one, but I can't say I heard it.

All the other stuff people talk about, such as soundstage, imaging, and so on, yes, they slightly changed with the different cables, but not much. Basically, the thicker the cable, the better sounding it was in all aspects.

for curious people, here's the songs I used to test the M22's:

1) The Becoming - Nine Inch Nails - STILL
2) So What - Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
3) Butterflies - Alicia Keys - Songs in A Minor
4) Something I Can Never Have - Nine Inch Nails - STILL
5) Company - Patricia Barber - Modern Cool (excellent drum solo)
6) Magnetic - Tabla Beat Science - Tala Matrix
7) various from Bach : Brandenburg Concertos


Randyman, you are right that this could be affected by short term acoustic memory, but it is the best I could do! It is also definitely not scientific, it is just my personal taste. My general that comes from this is try to get thicker wire, not thinner. Second, better wire will result in better shielding, which is likely the case with the 4PR. there's slightly less signal loss and interference, so it sounds a bit better, more detailed. I definitely don't think this is an 'exotic' cable, either.

Well, that's my experience in a nutshell!

p.s. i did try doubling the runs with the mic cable (22ga). it was louder, but still, not half as good as the 12ga or 4pr.




Top
#3013 - 05/14/02 03:18 PM Re: Speaker Wire?
Randyman Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Ravi,

Thanks for the info/update. Very detailed information.

Your test method was pretty much as I expected. It's the about only way I could do it as well. I was just curious if you had some exotic switch setup with multiple wire runs to the speakers or something like that.

I think it would be interesting if you could repeat the test and have someone else do the wire switching, so that you were completely unaware of which wire you were listening thru. (an honest blind - or double blind test). That way you could listen, take notes and then compare your comments/results to the wires.

I would be curious to know if the results would be the same.

I guess this test would apply to anyone who really wants to try to "hear" the difference in different wires. Often, the results of a "test" is subconsiously influnced by our desire for a certain outcome. And that is the case for nearly everything else in the audio system as well.

Again, thanks for your info!

Randyman

Top
#3014 - 05/14/02 05:22 PM Re: Speaker Wire?
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
Randyman

I very much agree a blind test would be optimal, but I didn't really have the time to do that. Perhaps I will sometime soon. However, I like to believe I am not biased, but, you never know!

If you do a blind test, I'd be curious to know if you prefer the 12 ga over the other smaller guages.


Top
#3015 - 05/15/02 12:13 AM Re: Speaker Wire?
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Interesting thoughts on the blind tests. I agree that getting someone else to switch the wires would be essential.
I have to say that i'm interested in listening for differences myself. As a man of science i sometimes just can't believe others opinions and have to take in the experience myself to be sure the tests were done without that bias of which you speak.

I'm waiting on some 12ga wire coming in this week and i've got some 14ga and 20ga as well laying around (relatively generic stuff). Perhaps if i went over to Future Shop and picked up some Acoustic Research "high end" cables and tested them out for fun (before bringing them back) against the generic brands and different gauges i could get the wife to play assistant for the day....er...hour, to help with the blind testing.

Now i just gotta find a way to stay outta the beer fridge before the testing is finished so i don't skew my results.

_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

Top
#3016 - 05/15/02 10:54 AM Re: Speaker Wire?
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
The beer test may be an interesting test all on its own. One would presume that the performance would peak at a certain number of bottles and start to fall off after that point. Then again it may just remain constant until the recording of the results became too cumbersome.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

Top
#3017 - 05/15/02 12:07 PM Re: Speaker Wire?
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
hmmm a beer test..

would Axiom finance a scientific beer test conducted by non biased people who do not work for them, but are familiar with their products?!

Top
#3018 - 05/15/02 10:03 PM Re: Speaker Wire?
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Now there's a thought.
A free case of beer with each purchase.
Geez, the partnership between a speaker company and the beer store could open up a world of new clients...
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Home  |  Corporate Info  |  Products  |  Message Board  |  FAQs  |  Warranty  |  Site Map  |  Privacy Statement   |  Contact Us

©2014 Colquhoun Audio Laboratories Limited
All Rights Reserved.