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#316128 - 07/22/10 06:55 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: jakewash]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
You're probably correct Jakewash, especially if it was a reference to Nine Inch Nails that he was listening to. If these listening tests on the M22 were done without a sub with that content, I can see how it would sound underwhelming, "thin" or "bright". I might call it "unbalanced" which might lead to those perceptions. If he was just listening to the M22 alone, without a sub he was getting a lot of content rolled off below 60hz and he would be missing some of the deeper bass and "slam" that makes some of the NIN albums a very enjoyable listening experience.
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#316137 - 07/22/10 08:16 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: JohnK]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Micah, someone's personal preference for it doesn't lessen the inferiority of an object.

Audio quality, along with truth, reality and a whole bunch of other things you would think 'just are' are all in the eye (or in this case ear) of the beholder.

A quick survey of the real world should confirm this.
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#316144 - 07/22/10 08:59 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: fredk]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
It is funny how people misinterpret a lack of low end bass to an unbalanced sound.
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#316152 - 07/22/10 09:29 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: jakewash]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
As Alan points out.

Getting loudspeaker tone quality exactly right is really a matter of balance. Even slight variations in the relative contribution of bass, midrange and treble may dramatically alter our impressions of a loudspeaker. If you have too much bass output relative to the midrange, the mids and highs may seem a bit recessed or muted and less detailed. If a speaker is shy of bass, its midrange becomes more noticeable and we may describe its sound as “middy” or “thin” (lacking bass), because the midrange and treble are too prominent. (Alan Loft, 2010)

There is no doubt using a subwoofer "balances" the sound of a bookshelf speaker especially when that midbass is not boosted.
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#316168 - 07/22/10 10:17 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: BlueJays1]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Quote:
It is funny how people misinterpret a lack of low end bass to an unbalanced sound.

Well, it is unbalanced in a way.. A chunk of the audible spectrum is missing. Though, it is more complicated than that as our brain is able to actually fill in the fundamental tones if all the harmonics are produced.

Quote:
Getting loudspeaker tone quality exactly right is really a matter of balance. Even slight variations in the relative contribution of bass, midrange and treble may dramatically alter our impressions of a loudspeaker.

Then you put the speakers in a room and all bets are off as room acoustics take over.
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#316188 - 07/22/10 11:08 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: fredk]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Well it seems to me that characterizing something superior/inferior is directly related to the goal in question.

Take the designers behind the M22 and liken them to an Indy car race team. Their whole goal is to produce the 'perfect' race car. And in that pursuit a big determining factor is how much usable horsepower the engine can achieve. So when they run off 1000+ ponies on the dyno-meter they're going to feel very good about it.

Now take the engineers who put together the Energy CB20's and liken them to the team responsible with developing the Toyota Prius. They could care less about how fast they can get around a track 100 times. Their whole objective is to get their car to go 100 miles on a single gallon of gas.

So when the Indy race team gets ahold of the Prius dyno-chart and laugh because their 'inferior' car only made 90 horsepower, well that doesn't mean diddly squat to the Prius guys. They never set out to produce huge horsepower figures in the first place. Their definition of 'inferior' is completely different. They would laugh at the Indy car only getting 8 miles to the gallon!

Different strokes for different folks. It's pretty obvious that not every speaker manufacturer on the market is dedicated to producing the most accurate speaker they can. That's because the is a HUGE market for 'warm' speakers. It's a simple law of business that companies must make products that consumers demand and will purchase... or you won't be doing business for very long.

So yes there is a demand for Axioms as well as other brands that reproduce an audio signal faithfully. But there's certainly just as much demand for Bose and others who color the signal. Therefore I have a hard time throwing a word like 'inferior' at them when they have a different goal and have taken a different path in achieving that goal.

And this business that, "the way the engineer intended the recording to sound is the best" is just as subjective as anything else IMO. Hell nature's intentions were for me to enjoy my life to the fullest unaltered... But I've found that the occasional beer gives life a nice, warm 'color' that makes normal life seem boring in comparison! laugh





wink
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#316191 - 07/22/10 11:19 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: Micah]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Okay. What I got from that was...Don't drink warm beer while driving a Prius at Indy.


crazy
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#316196 - 07/22/10 11:49 PM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: Adrian]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
You got the basics. smile
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#316202 - 07/23/10 12:19 AM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: Micah]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Sorry, didn't understand your post Micah. Not enough words.
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#316227 - 07/23/10 03:06 AM Re: Axiom M22 V3 vs Klipsch RB61 vs Energy CB20 [Re: fredk]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Are you trying to use reverse psychology on me Fred???
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