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#336010 - 01/28/11 01:21 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: CatBrat]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I think it would make a "noticeable" difference only in a large room and at high SPLs. At moderate levels I don't think it would be noticeable but I never had the chance to make a comparison.
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#336017 - 01/28/11 01:29 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: bdpf]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5871
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I know when I went from a cheap Sony 100wpc amp to a more expensive Pioneer Elite 110wpc, there was a night and day difference. I'm assuming that if I went from what I have to some really good, and powerful separates, that this night and day difference would probably be there also. (More noticeable with M80 than M22).

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#336051 - 01/28/11 02:41 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: CatBrat]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I know when I went from a cheap Sony 100wpc amp to a more expensive Pioneer Elite 110wpc, there was a night and day difference. I'm assuming that if I went from what I have to some really good, and powerful separates, that this night and day difference would probably be there also. (More noticeable with M80 than M22).


I agree. But this is a touchy subject.

Around here, the prevailing attitude is that amps don't affect sound quality. I disagree (based on my own personal experiences), but I choose not to fight that battle. IMHO, it's the Kobayashi Maru of online audio discussion. wink
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#336052 - 01/28/11 02:47 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: CatBrat]
GregLee Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 131
Loc: Waimanalo, HI
There is little agreement about whether technical differences among amplifiers are reflected in sound quality. The most relevant test of this, double-blind listening comparisons, are so much trouble to conduct that they are rarely done. So, what it comes down to is acquiring a set of prejudices that let people arrive at conclusions in the absence of relevant evidence. My suggestion: Don't believe anything.
_________________________
Greg
VP180, M80s, M22s, QS8(4), CSW S305s, EP500, Pioneer SC-1522
M2i, M3(2), Pio vsx-1017

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#336053 - 01/28/11 02:48 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: GregLee]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5871
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I believe in canaries.

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#336054 - 01/28/11 02:51 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: PeterChenoweth]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted By: PeterChenoweth

Around here, the prevailing attitude is that amps don't affect sound quality. I disagree, but choose not to fight about it. It's the Kobayashi Maru of online AV discussion. wink

Now that's funny Peter!

Yeah I know the whole amps don't sound different debate and I have some mixed feelings there but no facts to back anything up. I know that debate can't be completely separated from this discussion, but my point in the original post was more a question of how do reviewers attribute what amps sound like in a review when the speakers and other factors have a much greater affect on sound quality?

And back to my other rhetorical question, would a modern Pioneer vs. a modern Denon vs. a modern Onkyo all of similar quality/power ratings really sound any different from each other played within their limits?
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#336062 - 01/28/11 03:06 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: cb919]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5871
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
My personal opinion (yeah, I know, no body asked for it, but I just can't help myself (pestering addiction)) is if they are similar, there won't be any difference. But if there are major design differences, such as better power supply, bigger transistors, etc. that there will probably be a difference if more power / headroom is available, and is being used.

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#336064 - 01/28/11 03:10 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: cb919]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
The reviewers have their "reference" system, that they are supposed to know intimately. They can then swap out a part (like the receiver) when they are doing a review and compare what they hear to what they remember. (I already have a problem there, as audio memory doesn't last that long.)

Then they use flowery terms to describe what they are hearing. Words that have no relationship to measurable quantities. There's no way to argue how warm the midrange is, or sweet the highs.

I used to pour over equipment reviews when I was a kid. Trying to imagine what these words meant, how I was missing the chocolaty middle while listening to my mom's Sound Design stereo system. Over time I grew more and more aware that these reviewers are writing to appeal to readers (and their advertisers). They're telling a story that people want to hear, but it is mostly fantasy.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#336065 - 01/28/11 03:10 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: ClubNeon]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17781
Loc: NoVA
Pour chocolate over the reviews? Wouldn't that make them hard to read?
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#336068 - 01/28/11 03:12 PM Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews [Re: Ken.C]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5871
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Mmmmm chocolate. I want some.

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