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#337829 - 02/10/11 12:38 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: JBall]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5908
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
It sounds like his room is designed to add bass and treble, so that poor quality speakers sound better.

I know, just stating the obvious.

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#337834 - 02/10/11 12:53 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: JBall]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: JBall
Funny how the revels in his same room measured so flat...

So, nothing in his room has changed, and he's using exactly the same equipment, with the speakers in exactly the same position, and the mic set up in exactly the same way?

I doubt it. Measurements taken in room are useless for anything other than looking at how things are measuring at that time. You especially can't compare them against each other.

I'm sure the Revels are better speakers, but can't trust anything he says to back that up.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#337837 - 02/10/11 01:09 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: ClubNeon]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8293
Loc: Tacoma
Keep in mind that the "review" is completely subjective, and is the antithesis of "blind testing".

Likewise, we know almost nothing about the testing conditions which produced the alleged "objective science" part (the graph), making it of relatively limited use, except perhaps to justify the subjective part. Which came first - the listen or the measure? We just don't know, and it matters.

I think it is dangerous to discuss someone's perceived "tone".

Didn't the M60's get a "Approved and Recommended" out of this?

JBall, I simply don't understand your point. We have speakers to derive enjoyment. The measure of that enjoyment can only be your ears in your room. The graph doesn't come from either your room or a scientifically controlled environment, and your ears can't hear the graph. So, why does the graph matter so much to you?
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#337844 - 02/10/11 01:29 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: tomtuttle]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
The graph for the Revels is flatt-"er", but it still looks +/- 2db's to me assuming all things being equal, and that's a big assumption given the lack of testing details.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#337846 - 02/10/11 01:35 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: ClubNeon]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
Originally Posted By: JBall
Funny how the revels in his same room measured so flat...

So, nothing in his room has changed, and he's using exactly the same equipment, with the speakers in exactly the same position, and the mic set up in exactly the same way?

I doubt it. Measurements taken in room are useless for anything other than looking at how things are measuring at that time. You especially can't compare them against each other.

I'm sure the Revels are better speakers, but can't trust anything he says to back that up.

Exactly.
He stated in the review he had the M60s at 30" from his back wall, twice what he normally "prefers".
That already leads to the idea that his speaker locations were not the same when measuring.
Same as angle of placement, something he also referred to as a difference.

His total score at the end is useless when incorporating a subjective opinion as part of that score, but more so, what was the objective bar used to score the other categories?
I didn't see a defined scale.
If build quality is a 9, how was that ranked? By speaker weight? # of internal bracing components? Driver shape and dimensions? etc.

These reviews are like watching the aftermath of a car crash as you drive by.
You can't help but be intrigued and want to look at it, but on the other hand, you probably shouldn't be gawking at it either.



Edited by chesseroo (02/10/11 01:37 PM)
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#337857 - 02/10/11 02:51 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: JBall]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
Originally Posted By: JBall
Funny how the revels in his same room measured so flat...


Yeesss......isn't it?
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#337884 - 02/10/11 04:46 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: Argon]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3167
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Revels were what I was just about to pull the trigger on when I found Axiom.

Honestly, I REALLY like them. But I got M60/500 plus 4 QS8's with stands, and I spent less than the two Revel towers would have cost. And, though I have VaSSallo's, my choices of finish with ANY Revels were black ash, maple or cherry (black grilles only). I think they've dumped the maple and now the choices are two.

Their appearance would not have been a consideration, as long as they're not sprayed flat black with orange peel up the kiester. Seen $$$$ speakers that come that way. My Fender and Ampeg road equipment looked better.

Do I like them better than Axioms? Yes. Do I long for them? Not al all. For me, the point of diminishing returns kicks in at around $5k/pr.
And that's where I had to go ($$$) to begin to close in on the Axioms. Revels top out at appx. $20k/pr.

All Revel's are direct-firing, so their "HT systems" must be murderously unforgiving to place.

Once again, it's a snake oil sideshow when trying to assess value/$. Isn't that why we're all here?
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#337886 - 02/10/11 04:49 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: BobKay]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
I'm here because JP gives me free meds.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#337888 - 02/10/11 04:51 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: BobKay]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Isn't that why we're all here?

I am here for the clever repartee
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#337890 - 02/10/11 04:55 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: BobKay]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
I was looking at Revels too, before I considered JBL, and finally Axiom. But not their Ultima(2) line, the Concerta instead. The Concerta S12 is not direct firing, and neither is their Performa S30.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

Top
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