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#338331 - 02/13/11 04:24 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: Adrian]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Alan and others here did say that they would put the M80s directly up against the top Revels and they would likely score "similarly good".

So let's assume that is true and Axiom built the perfect speaker that can't be beat and only tied in a blind test. If that's the case, there should never be a rev 4 or beyond b/c a point has been reached where a better performing speaker cannot be made since any more money thrown at it would be solely for cosmetic value.

Alan did state beyond $2k/pair you simply cannot get better performance and I quote it below:

Quote:
Over the years, I've found that once you reach a price point of about $1000 to $2000 per pair in loudspeakers from a talented designer, more money will not buy you "better" sound reproduction. It may be similarly good, but the more expensive speakers won't necessarily rank higher in double-blind tests.


Also note that this is still being referred to as a Double Blind Test despite others and myself clearly proved Axiom tests are NOT double blind.

So following this logic in how Axiom designs and compares speakers, one must wonder why there is even a rev 3? Wasn't rev 1 already the perfect speaker that could beat or tie all others in a blind test?

I sense a lot of dislike here against me from people whom actually believe in the Axiom doctrine that dictates their speakers are so good that they are similarly good to the best designs in the world regardless of price and if anyone refutes that claim it's b/c they are biased by looks or brand appeal. Yet we are to believe this from a blind test run by the manufacturer that has a vested interest in the outcome of the results.

If someone other than Axiom measures the product, the measurement is invalid b/c it wasn't done in an anechoic chamber. This is how the S&V measurements are so easily dismissed here.

That is how Axiom and their fans can so easily dismiss 3rd party measurements of Axiom products such as the tests Ikka did on the EP600 showing design issues with the sub:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/973-axiom-ep-600-2nd-test.html

Wow this sound like a wonderful start for a religion.

Seriously I'm done with this topic as I made all my points and nobody wants a open minded discussion.

It's great that Axiom has convinced everyone that we have the best speakers in the world regardless of price. I was actually convinced too when I made my purchase.

Bose has done the same to so many people. Axiom seems to be following the Bose business model (their research produces the best sound and can only be measured and compared using their protocol) which isn't such a bad thing since Bose is the most profitable speaker company in the world.

Thanks for the discourse, its been most enlightening.



Edited by JBall (02/13/11 04:39 PM)

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#338332 - 02/13/11 04:32 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: JBall]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: JBall
Seriously I'm done with this topic as I made all my points and nobody wants a open minded discussion on this topic.


When one of your main points is that we're all unthinking drone zealots, what kind of reaction are we supposed to have? I tried acknowledging some of your points, but you seem to be more interested in insulting everyone than in conducting an actual conversation about it.

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#338333 - 02/13/11 04:33 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: JBall]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Who said it was a perfect speaker? can you quote someone. All Alan and everyone(most) are trying to tell you is that there isn't really a corellation between price and performance(generally speaking). I think it may be you who is not being open minded in fact.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#338334 - 02/13/11 04:34 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: JBall]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I love being a student of Social Psychology. It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are baited into the same arguments over and over again. Human nature . . . ?
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#338335 - 02/13/11 04:36 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: grunt]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
My existence certainly involves a lot of repetition. My arguing is like your exercise. smile

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#338336 - 02/13/11 04:37 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Quote:

Seriously I'm done with this topic as I made all my points and nobody wants a open minded discussion on this topic.

I love this sort of post. Not enough just to stop posting but have to announce the fact as if it’s “really important.” I’ll alert the press!
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#338337 - 02/13/11 04:38 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Quote:

My existence certainly involves a lot of repetition. My arguing is like your exercise.

The difference is my exercise validates my existence while arguing also validates the other’s.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#338339 - 02/13/11 04:39 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: grunt]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
No sense of community?

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#338340 - 02/13/11 04:44 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: CV]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Quote:

No sense of community?

Nope. I’m an antisocial non-conformist which makes it next to impossible. Probably why I piss off the “leadership” of every organization I’ve ever been a part of. wink
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#338341 - 02/13/11 05:03 PM Re: Sound & Vision mag reviews M60's [Re: grunt]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I'm not too popular where I work, either. I'm not sure how much is my ideology and how much is just that I want to feel cool, though. Either way, management makes it easy to provide resistance when they don't know what they're doing. smile

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