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#352162 - 07/20/11 07:59 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: fhw]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
Unfortunately, the prime element in US politics which will ALWAYS dictate the agenda is the power and influence of the lobbyists, corporations and the enormous sums of money attached to all of it which in turn really determines policy. The groups in question during these debates are already jockeying for position and spending loads of money. Be it healthcare, defence spending, social security, the financial industry, oil companies and list goes on and on, it is easy to notice that during these debates on major budget items, they tinker and offer lip service but nothing really ever changes. After all, the politicians don't want to "bite the hand that feeds them". Despite the rhetoric, tax loopholes will never disappear either because that is why corporations, among other things, spend all that campaign finance money. The "Average Joe" doesn't have a chance.

Until the enormous sums of money required to run for office(along with the strings attached for that money) in the US are drastically reduced and the system is overhauled, don't expect any changes in policy and tone any time in the foreseeable future. The "perks" of power in US politics are just too good and as we can see no matter the consequences, these "perks" for most politicians are maintained at the expense of the American taxpayer and economy.

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#352165 - 07/20/11 09:11 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: casey01]
audiosavant Offline
devotee

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 311
Loc: Worldwide
It's funny how all these teabagger bozos didn't seemed too concerned with spending and deficits when George Bush was borrowing and spending money on two unnecessary (and illegal) wars while giving tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy.

We should just return to the tax rates we had under their god Ronnie Reagan (an Alzheimer addled ex-actor and terrible president). Or how about Clinton era tax rates? You know, back when the economy was booming and we had a surplus and yet the rich still got rich! It's a lie that cutting corporate taxes create jobs. If that were true, where are they? They've (tax rates) been the lowest they've ever been for the last 10 years. Corporations outsource those "jobs" and have pretty much killed the middle class and American industry.

Obama has a lot more patience than I do with the current crop of Republicans. They want the economy to tank because that's their only chance of winning in 2012. But they won't. I think America is (finally) waking up now that News Corp and Murdoch are being exposed for the corrupt scum bags they are. The right wing propaganda that they peddle is becoming quite stale. Getting rid of Fox news will go a long way in restoring the political climate and rational debate in this country. If McCain/Palin (god forbid) had won, Osama Bin Laden would still be alive and GM would be long gone.

It's also funny how the right thinks that Obama is a socialist since he's a centrist moderate and more conservative than Nixon (who would be considered a commie by the wing-nuts on the right today) was! 30 years of conservative trickle down theory has almost destroyed this country. I wish president Obama WAS a socialist! Then maybe we would all have affordable universal healthcare like every other civilized country in the world. But god forbid we should turn the USA into one of those horrible socialist hell-holes like Sweden, Canada, Norway, Germany, etc.! Oddly, those countries have a higher standard of living and better literacy rates.

History keeps repeating though... Republicans get into power, fu#k up everything, then a Democrat gets elected and has to clean up the mess they made. Look it up. History and facts are on my side here. But, as you probably know, "facts" do have a liberal bias.. wink

I also have no love for the Democratic party, they've let me down many times. They've been acting like Republican-lite ever since the Reagan era. Good cop to the Republican's bad cop... but both are cops and are going to bust you! Bill Clinton was a pretty great Republican president though... grin

However, I do think Obama is one of the best presidents this country has ever had. And I believe Republicans know it, that's why they hate him so much. He continuously schools their asses with smarts, competence, decency and statesmanship.

Yeah, I think that liberal policies are what helped make this country great. I also appreciate some good conservative ideas. I love Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. Even William F. Buckley was a reasonable and intellectual conservative. Compare him to Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh.

I'm just a reluctant capitalist bleeding heart liberal and I love freedom and America. I want ALL Americans to do well, but the left AND right have to work TOGETHER or else this great nation (empire) will fall just like my people's did, the Romans (and we were the baddest motherfu#kers of all)
_________________________
"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
---Frank Zappa


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#352167 - 07/20/11 09:19 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: casey01]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3131
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
"You guys" are so on top of American politics, for real, no kidding. I'm always impressed and embarrassed.

You should move here and help. We promise we won't throw you out of Acadia again (joking)! However, anyone who does not speak accentless American English will be remanded to Louisiana---direclty this time (not joking). OK, joking still.

There! Ya happy now?
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#352169 - 07/20/11 09:35 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: medic8r]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
Interesting articles JP. My new favorite quote: "Washington has gone from theater to reality TV"
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#352174 - 07/20/11 10:23 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: fredk]
audiosavant Offline
devotee

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 311
Loc: Worldwide
“Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.”
-- Frank Zappa
_________________________
"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
---Frank Zappa


Top
#352177 - 07/20/11 10:44 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: BobKay]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: BobKay
"You guys" are so on top of American politics, for real, no kidding. I'm always impressed and embarrassed.

You should move here and help. We promise we won't throw you out of Acadia again (joking)! However, anyone who does not speak accentless American English will be remanded to Louisiana---direclty this time (not joking). OK, joking still.

There! Ya happy now?


Bob, sometimes when you can view situations from farther afield, they seem much clearer than when you are right in the middle of it. It is interesting(and scary) to note when I happened to be watching a news show tonight that there are a group in the HoR(I would expect mostly tea partiers and extreme right wing Republicans) who they nickname "Deadenders". These are a group who really believe that they were elected in order to NOT compromise on any issue and are not concerned if they are re-elected. Now that's scary!

Top
#352188 - 07/20/11 11:57 PM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: medic8r]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: medic8r
Yes, casey01, you are on target. Substitute "cult fringe" for "Tea Party" and you'll see that Senator Harkin said the same thing today:

"The sad thing is America no longer has a two-party system," Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) said at a press conference Wednesday. "One of our two parties has morphed into kind of a cult driven by a singular fixation and obsession: preserving tax breaks for the wealthy at all costs ..."

"The fight is not between Democrats and Republicans, it's Republicans and their cult fringe, as I refer to them out there. You'll find all sorts of Republicans who are willing to let this country go down the tubes on their ideological ideal."




Originally Posted By: michael_d
Two party system.... I hate it. Long gone are the days of voting FOR someone, and it's been replaced by voting AGAINST someone.


The two party system that has evolved over modern times has not served us well. I've always thought Harkin was a tool and his recent statement reinforces that for me.

I think if we could scrap the primary voting system and replace it all with a general election run off we'd be so much better off. It's the closest thing to being able to vote FOR someone instead of simply voting against the other.
_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

Top
#352189 - 07/21/11 12:01 AM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: audiosavant]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: audiosavant
It's funny how all these teabagger bozos didn't seemed too concerned with spending and deficits when George Bush was borrowing and spending money on two unnecessary (and illegal) wars while giving tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy.

We should just return to the tax rates we had under their god Ronnie Reagan (an Alzheimer addled ex-actor and terrible president). Or how about Clinton era tax rates? You know, back when the economy was booming and we had a surplus and yet the rich still got rich! It's a lie that cutting corporate taxes create jobs. If that were true, where are they? They've (tax rates) been the lowest they've ever been for the last 10 years. Corporations outsource those "jobs" and have pretty much killed the middle class and American industry.

Obama has a lot more patience than I do with the current crop of Republicans. They want the economy to tank because that's their only chance of winning in 2012. But they won't. I think America is (finally) waking up now that News Corp and Murdoch are being exposed for the corrupt scum bags they are. The right wing propaganda that they peddle is becoming quite stale. Getting rid of Fox news will go a long way in restoring the political climate and rational debate in this country. If McCain/Palin (god forbid) had won, Osama Bin Laden would still be alive and GM would be long gone.

It's also funny how the right thinks that Obama is a socialist since he's a centrist moderate and more conservative than Nixon (who would be considered a commie by the wing-nuts on the right today) was! 30 years of conservative trickle down theory has almost destroyed this country. I wish president Obama WAS a socialist! Then maybe we would all have affordable universal healthcare like every other civilized country in the world. But god forbid we should turn the USA into one of those horrible socialist hell-holes like Sweden, Canada, Norway, Germany, etc.! Oddly, those countries have a higher standard of living and better literacy rates.

History keeps repeating though... Republicans get into power, fu#k up everything, then a Democrat gets elected and has to clean up the mess they made. Look it up. History and facts are on my side here. But, as you probably know, "facts" do have a liberal bias.. wink

I also have no love for the Democratic party, they've let me down many times. They've been acting like Republican-lite ever since the Reagan era. Good cop to the Republican's bad cop... but both are cops and are going to bust you! Bill Clinton was a pretty great Republican president though... grin

However, I do think Obama is one of the best presidents this country has ever had. And I believe Republicans know it, that's why they hate him so much. He continuously schools their asses with smarts, competence, decency and statesmanship.

Yeah, I think that liberal policies are what helped make this country great. I also appreciate some good conservative ideas. I love Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. Even William F. Buckley was a reasonable and intellectual conservative. Compare him to Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh.


heh, ya I pretty much completely disagree with every single thing you just said (Obama the best, Reagan the worst??? Sorry but LOL!)...



Originally Posted By: audiosavant
I'm just a reluctant capitalist bleeding heart liberal and I love freedom and America. I want ALL Americans to do well, but the left AND right have to work TOGETHER or else this great nation (empire) will fall just like my people's did, the Romans (and we were the baddest motherfu#kers of all)


This we can agree on however!
_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

Top
#352193 - 07/21/11 12:13 AM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: medic8r]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: medic8r
One of the most interesting things about politics is how each side in a two-party system can be so convinced it is right and that the other side is just so totally wrong, misguided, and even dangerous. More on that in a minute.

I completely agree.



Originally Posted By: medic8r
I try not to cheerlead too much in politics, because I realize that a lot of it is disingenuous BS. I have to step back once in a while and take a breath so I don't get too wrapped up in it. It can be infuriating. I don't know how some people do it. Their tolerance for BS is higher than mine, I guess.

I agree with that as well.



Originally Posted By: medic8r

That said, this Robert Reich column from 7-17-2011 rang true to me.

Even more so, this Paul Krugman column from 7-14-2011 has some really spot-on perspective, I think.


I'll take your Reich and Krugman and raise you this Mariotti
_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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#352202 - 07/21/11 08:36 AM Re: Gang of Six Budget Plan, try to keep it civil [Re: INANE]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
They need to take the federal employee pay and retirement benefits off the chopping block in my opinion....Shouldnt be a part of any debt deal
_________________________
-David

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