Get Free, Friendly, Expert Advice
Call 1-866-244-8796 or email

Designed and Manufactured in Canada Since 1980


AxiomAudio Blog

Speaker Placement: Unusual Room Layouts and Elevating Speakers

Positioning Floorstanding Speakers

Our Newest Flagship Model: The M100

Wall'O'Fame
Greetings fellow Axiom owners...
HG Rosewoods Part 3
Who's Online
3 registered (Socketman, tomtuttle, alan), 106 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Financing
Forum Stats
13294 Members
11 Forums
22822 Topics
403170 Posts

Max Online: 378 @ 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Top Posters
Ken.C 17739
pmbuko 16257
SirQuack 13318
CV 11136
MarkSJohnson 10829
Meanwhile On Facebook

Hope everyone's got their summer favourite playlists cued up for the weekend! W...

(y) Love this customer review of the M2s! "the first time listening to my new a...

These LFR1100 speakers in custom Eggshell White are on their way to Taiwan (yes,...

Friday the 13th . . . oooooh! Who's your favorite Slasher flick character?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#35652 - 03/02/04 12:54 PM 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
Hi folks,

Are there any speaker technologies that don't get damaged by loud square waves?

Top
#35653 - 03/02/04 01:08 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Strange taste in music?

And my fiancee complains when I turn up Anti-Flag!

Bren R.

Top
#35654 - 03/02/04 01:12 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
smoovranger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/13/04
Posts: 34
Are you talking about clipping?

Top
#35655 - 03/02/04 01:15 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16257
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Do you mean true square waves, in which the speaker driver must try to instantaneously move from max positive excursion to max negative excursion, or semi-rounded square waves, in which the attack is not so harsh?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#35656 - 03/02/04 01:50 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
Bren, hah

Basically extreme clipping, yes-- by your description, PM, it sounds like loud square waves would fry every speaker known to man?

Top
#35657 - 03/02/04 05:17 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10359
Mike, it isn't entirely clear to me from what angle you're appoaching this. Although I rather like Bren's suggestion, I suppose that you're really thinking about clipping. A square wave of the same amplitude as a sine wave at the same frequency requires the square root of 2(i.e. 1.414)times as much voltage, and since power is proportional to the square of the voltage(i.e. P=V(squared)/R), this amounts to twice the power going into the speaker voice coil on a fully-clipped or square wave signal. Since the voice coil has to absorb twice the power, but it doesn't move any farther on the clipped or square wave to help it in cooling, it can overheat and fail if it can't dissipate the exta power over the time period involved. So, I suppose that answer is that no speaker is "square-wave proof", but the greater its power handling capacity, the greater its ability to play square waves at high level or to handle clipping without permanent damage.


Edited by JohnK (03/02/04 05:40 PM)
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



Top
#35658 - 03/02/04 06:08 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
John, that was very helpful. I had been of the thought that square waves damaged drivers through sort of 'jerking' them back-and-forth instead of a more normal sine-wave curve-- to hear it's a power / heat issue makes everything clear.

Thanks folks!

Top
#35659 - 03/02/04 07:50 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16257
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The power/heat issue and 'jerking' back-and-forth are closely linked.

At either flat end of a square wave, the driver is not moving yet a lot of power is flowing through the voice coil. The back-and-forth motion of a voice coil is what cools it, so the only chance the voice coil has to cool while reproducing a square wave is while it's in transit between the two extremes.

Since more time is spent "excurded" (the horizontal parts of the wave) than in transit (the vertical parts of the wave), this leads to rapid head buildup.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#35660 - 03/02/04 09:15 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
rcvecc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 608
Loc: east haven ct
i believe these subs are designed to handle square waves http://www.globalsupersale.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=3123

Top
#35661 - 03/02/04 10:34 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10359
Obviously that's the case, Ron, but now even the sine waves will come out square.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



Top
#35662 - 03/02/04 10:52 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
Ah, didn't know that PM.

Makes me happy that Axioms have more than decent power handling.

Top
#35663 - 03/03/04 05:45 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
Ok.. I'll bite.

Why on Earth would you want to listen to square waves?
(For some reason or another, I have a feeling the answer will be "to listen to my Wierd Al Yankovic album".)

And if you don't want to listen to them, why else would it be necessary to run them through your speakers?
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

Top
#35664 - 03/03/04 06:27 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Stbean Offline
buff

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Northern California
hehe..
I listen to square waves all the time when im playing with my synth..It's kindof cool listening to square, sawtooth, triangular and sine wave thru high performance speakers..
If your a tweaking around with an analog synth the sound your making with begin with a basic wave like above and then youll start to fool around with the attack, delay , sustain , release and all that other fun stuff.

Top
#35665 - 03/03/04 09:04 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16257
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Reminds me of this keyboard my family had when I was in junior high.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#35666 - 03/04/04 12:51 AM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
Oh... That makes sense. Thank you stbean.
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

Top
#35667 - 03/04/04 02:50 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Stbean Offline
buff

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Northern California
Hah pmbuko!! I still have that bad boy! Its a great little synth.

Top
#35668 - 03/04/04 03:48 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

Are there any speaker technologies that don't get damaged by loud square waves?



One thing you could do if you WERE looking to protect your speakers is find the Speaker Z (in ohms - 8 for most Axioms) and the Peak Power (or 4x Continuous Average Power is a good base) and cross reference them on a fuse nomograph, and put a slo-blo fuse in serial to protect them from thermal damage (or a fast-blo instrument fuse to protect tweeters from large transient voltages).

(ie: 8 ohm, 75W Peak = 1.5A)

If anyone's that interested, I can bring home and scan the nomograph.

Bren R.

Top
#35669 - 03/04/04 04:37 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Stbean Offline
buff

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Northern California
Your welcome....pardon my horrible grammar in that reply. I probably didnt have my coffee yet!

Top
#35670 - 03/04/04 09:14 PM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
Bren, I'm not far enough into applied electronics to set that up, but I enjoyed the information regardless.

Top
#35671 - 03/05/04 12:27 AM Re: 'square-wave proof' speakers?
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

Bren, I'm not far enough into applied electronics to set that up, but I enjoyed the information regardless.



My math stinks... so anything past basic + - x /, I like to have a chart.

Find two points, draw a straight line through the answer.

Bren R.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Home  |  Corporate Info  |  Products  |  Message Board  |  FAQs  |  Warranty  |  Site Map  |  Privacy Statement   |  Contact Us

©2014 Colquhoun Audio Laboratories Limited
All Rights Reserved.