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#355352 - 09/22/11 04:31 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: MarkSJohnson]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
You're right, of course.

I can't bear to actually stop and prioritize my many wants; too depressing. Since (God willing) I'll have at least one kid in college for the next 7-8 years, I don't think any of this is really going to matter.

Glad I got my car when I did.
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#355361 - 09/22/11 07:32 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: MarkSJohnson]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Tom, first things first.

You need to replace that tiny VP100 with a VP180. Whether or not you're satisfied with the VP100 is irrelevant.


Well from the newsletter it looks like Axiom is making a VP 160 so maybe they will come out with a VP 80 and VP 60 add on for the VP 100 . . . .
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3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#355372 - 09/22/11 08:51 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Tom, that is why I am getting what I can now. My oldest is a senior in high school. College in just under a year, and then when she finishes, my youngest will be hitting college. There will be a lot of ramen noodles and grilled cheese eaten, and it will be by me and not my kids...
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#355869 - 09/30/11 12:02 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: MarkSJohnson]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
I just pre-ordered a JVC RS45 from AVS. Their price was a good chunk less than the Panny 7000 price. I wouldn't have even been looking at it if it wasn't for this thread.
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#355896 - 09/30/11 09:12 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: nickbuol]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Great to hear it! You are going to love having a projector. Sorry if I forgot but have you already select a screen?

Iím looking forward to seeing what you have to say about it.
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#355904 - 10/01/11 12:33 AM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
I've had a projector before (had to leave it with the house we sold a few months back). It was several years old though (a Sanyo Z3). No matter what I got, it was going to be light years better than the Z3, so price won it for me, plus I am looking forward to amazing blacks and real contrast that LCoS can deliver. If the price would have been different, I would have picked up the 7000 and been just as happy.

It doesn't ship until late November, so I better get things finished in the basement before then. laugh
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#356394 - 10/08/11 08:22 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: nickbuol]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I finally got off my lazy butt and hung my surround and rear speakers. The rears are actually mounted on a shelf (metal grill so it doesnít block the bottom midrange). This makes them fully adjustable for both height and width, though from previous experiments Iíve already got the location pretty much dialed in.

The surrounds are hanging from the ceiling now rather than sitting on the Axiom stands on top of boxes (and they still werenít high enough). I just mounted an angle bracket with holes in it along the ceiling and hung the speakers using lengths of small chain. Unfortunately Loweís doesnít carry the black chain I was going to use anymore so I had to get brass which I will either paint or probably replace with black chain when I find some. These are also fully adjustable for height and front to back placement. Iíve already got them where I want for one row of seating but since the rails that they hang from are pretty long I can move them forward if I ever drag my futon out to add another row from time-to-time. Now I just need some black speaker wire since the clear stuff sticks out like a sore thumb.

Itís nice to finally get those speakers up to the height Iíve always wanted them. The rear soundstage now sounds the best it ever has in this room. And thereís no more chance of accidentally knocking over one of the stands anymore.

Along with that I added another shelf for the AE7000 which arrived about a week ago. Iím still waiting on the glasses before firing it up so I donít end up putting to many hours on it that I canít return it if I donít think itís a big enough improvement. It looks kind of cool with two projectors sitting on the back wall.

I also finally ordered the new black carpet for the front of the room. The living room carpet was too new to replace so I just ordered a piece of really dark very non-reflective stuff and am having it cut to size and bound to just through up front to replace the marine grade crap Iím still using from my apartment.

Now all I have to do is order a couple wall brackets to mount my M2 wide speakers and that will finish all the speaker stuff. Hopefully I will then finally paint the trim on the door and the rest of the room.
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#357271 - 10/22/11 07:29 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana

Well I finally broke down and fired up the AE7000 in part based on Projector Centralís comments on the 2D PQ.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasoni...wing-Experience

Quote:

Not only does the AE7000 represent a major step beyond the AE4000 in picture quality, it is a step beyond so-called "higher end" 1080p projectors. Viewed side by side it will outperform some competing products that currently sell for up to triple the price. And most of these competing units do not have the array of features found on the AE7000.


Just because itís there hereís their shootout between the Panasonic AE7000 and the Sony VPL-HW30ES

http://www.projectorcentral.com/shootout_panasonic_AE7000_sony_hw30es.htm?page=Picture-Quality



First thing I can say is I will never watch a Blu-ray movie or play a video game on my AE4000 again, unless the AE7000 isnít working. Iíll still use the AE4000 as a computer monitor and for watching Netflix, and likely any standard DVDs but I might test that later. So how did they really compare?

How I tested them. My HT room is all black except for the back wall which is pained burgundy and 20í from the screen. The walls are curtained so they are actually darker than if painted black and the carpet is black. All incoming light can be blacked out and my equipment is in a separate room so no LED lights to deal with except the beacon I have taped over on my computer mouse.

Both projectors are mounted on the back wall with the lenses a little less than 19í from a 134Ē diagonal 1.78 to 1 (16x9) 1.3 gain Carada Brilliant White screen. My Onkyo has dual HDMI outputs so I just switched the one I had hooked up to my LCD HDTV to the AE7000. To A/B compare the pictures I fired up both projectors at the same time and just held, or placed for longer viewing, a DVD case in front of the lens I wanted blocked. I also replaced the lamp on my AE4000 so both lamp run times were zero. To start I put both projectors in normal lamp mode and Cinema 1 picture mode (theoretically the best). I also had to alternately put electricians tape over the IR receiver on each projector when I was adjusting settings on the other since they respond to the same codes. Hell they use the same exact remote so I didnít even put the batteries in the one that came with the AE7000.

The first thing I put in my Oppo BD83 was the opening scene from Star Wars III Revenge of the Sith, where the fighters are flying through the fleet. This scene has the best PQ of any movie Blu-ray I have and IMO is an excellent test for image quality, black level, shadow detail and colour depth. As soon as I started to A/B compare them I realized that the AE4000 wasn't as well focused as I thought. After fiddling with the focus for a couple minutes I came to realize that it wasnít at all out of focus it was the image on the AE7000 was just that much clearer. The best comparison I can make is that it was like the difference between looking at a painting (AE4000) and a picture (AE7000) the image was that much better. And here I always thought the AE4000ís image was fantastic.

Set up identically there is just no comparison between these two projectors. In the order I noticed them hereís what was better on the AE4000:

Sharper Picture but w/o becoming ďvideo like.Ē
Way more ďpopĒ to the image.
Much better black level.
Much better shadow detail.
Colours were more vivid.
Better gradation between similar colours
More 3D looking 2D image (running in 2D mode).

I also tested out Avatar, The Fifth Element and Fellowship of the Ring and the results were similar. Avatar in particular looked so much better on the AE7000 because of all the picture depth and details. It literally looked 3D in 2D mode.
I also popped Elder Scrolls: Oblivion in since itís got some of the most varied scenery in any game Iíve seen. The first thing I noticed was the better shadow detail. Things that were never there before now were. The detail was also an amazing improvement. Looking at flowers at night in the distance the AE4000 let me see flowers, but on the AE7000 I could see the center of the flower surrounded by individual petals . . . at night . . . in the distance . . . out in the woods, freaking awesome! Again all the PQ improvements combined to produce an image with much more apparent depth.

I also played around with some of the settings on the AE7000. Cinema 2 mode in some ways looked better than Cinema 1. It had way more pop and corresponding three-dimensionality to the image at the expense of some black level and shadow detail. OTOH the colour seemed pretty good which, was also the case in ďNormalĒ picture mode which lost even more shadow detail and blackness. ďGameĒ mode sucked. Iím not sure what behind it but the image just looked flat and washed out. Dynamic mode was way too bright for my room though and loses way to much shadow detail but would be great for watching sports. ďEcoĒ mode really knocked down the pop factor in Cinema 1 mode and also somewhat in the others (note that I am at 19í using a pretty big screen).

Well my worries about having to send this back are gone. The 2D PQ alone is well worth the upgrade. Unfortunately Panny seems to have screwed up their glasses because they still arenít shipping, so any 3D reviewing will have to wait.

Meanwhile I think I may try moving the AE7000 close to my screen to see what effect that has on the PQ. Right now at 19í the Projector Central calculator sayís I should be getting 12 foot lamberts in the best mode. Without moving anything else around except the projector I can get is to 16í which should give me 16 foot lamberts and I can get to 18 foot lamberts by pushing my seating slightly forward. So tomorrow might be a tweaking day. Another reason for trying a closer position is due to the stated limitations of the 3D system which says with the built-in emitter the projector shouldnít be more than 6 meters from the screen and the viewer no more than 5 meters. Well my seating places my head at about 13í right now which is actually 2 feet closer than the THX recommended viewing angle so Iíll have to see what happens if I move closer, which from previous audio test should improve the front soundstage while degrading the rear.
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#357274 - 10/22/11 08:10 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11140
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
You're making me want one, Dean. Stop that.

Only because I don't have the money for one right now. And I still think some more Axiom purchases are in my future before I seriously consider a projector.
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#357314 - 10/23/11 01:35 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: CV]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
I have been looking at the 7000. I'm primarily interested in how it handles motion. I have heard that because of the 480 panels, it 'should' handle motion very well. Have you tried it viewing sports Dean?
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