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#281242 - 12/02/09 01:32 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I figured Iíd better post to update what Iím hearing with the new height and wide channels.

After spending more time watching whole movies and not jus checking out specific effects I have to revise my opinion of the wide channels and say that they really do enhance the overall soundstage especially sitting in the sweet spot.

For specific effects like panning across the front and of the L/H or R/H side of the screen wides are still a mixed bag especially if I concentrate on what their doing. But Iíve noticed two things about then now. When not specifically listening for them itís not nearly as noticeable when they over exaggerate a L/R pan. Also leaving them on throughout the movie really does seem to improve the immersion of not just the front soundstage but all the way around. Sort of tricks my ears into hearing 360 degree sounds even when almost nothing is coming out of the surrounds and backs.

This effect is very soundtrack dependent based on how much ambient stuff is in the front L/R channels. An example of a movie that sounded much better using the wides than the heights is ďAngels and DemonsĒ Blu-ray I watched last night. Many of the scenes involve crowds or street noises and here the wides really shine.

I still donít like the wides for most music the one exception as I expected being concert recordings. The wider soundstage sounds is much more realistic. However, having tried them on 3 games now, Bioshock, Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Mass Effect I canít see using the wides for gaming.

Last night I finally mounted the QS8s up as height channels so I can get a feel for them with more material especially games where someone has mentioned they are suppose to excel. I still prefer Dolby PLIIz to the DSX height.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#283848 - 12/26/09 12:55 AM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Just thought Iíd update on some of the new equipment.

With 412 hours on it the lamp of the AE4000 is starting to show itís age. Iím still running it in ďeco-modeĒ since I donít see a big difference running it in normal. Iím still using ďcinema 1Ē which IMO gives the best un-calibrated picture. PQ is still great but itís lost some of the pop it had right out of the box. Switching the picture mode to normal retuns the pop but also IMO is as true looking and also seem to loose a little shadow detail though I havenít tried tweaking any setting to make this mode look better yet. No complaints since I knew I was going to be stretching the limits of this projectors capabilities.

Iíve done a lot more listening using the height and wide speakers and can say itís really a coin toss for me which I prefer. I would say if you can, wait until a reasonably priced receiver (last time I looked the Denon wasnít in my reasonable range) comes out offering both of them. They are both nice but not IMO at twice the price I paid for my Onkyo.

Since the chairs I bought are more than tall enough to see over the M80s to the screen building a riser became unnecessary so I tried to find another way to connect my Buttkicker to all three of my chairs. Turns out just attaching the Buttkicker to a long 2x4 and putting the back legs of the chairs on it works great. Actually the bass now feels better (tighter and more natural) than when I had it attached directly to my futon in the apartment. Must have something to do with the dampening effect of having the 2x4 laying on the ground. If I ever decide to add more chairs Iíll need to make I riser or use another Butkicker.

Still waiting on the curtains from Dazian as they ran out of the material I requested. To their credit they offered to substitute an equally dark and more expensive material for he same price but it had audio dampening qualities I didnít want so I chose to wait. Should get them some time in January. Have to say theyíve been great to work with sending samples of material so I could test it and grommets so I could check for compatible curtain hardware.

Having seen and heard what Blu-ray has to offer Iíve started ordering more of them than I had ever intended as I see them on sale at Amazon. For example:

Original Star Trek seasons 1-3
Original Star Trek movies pack
Star Trek Next Gen movies pack
10 pack of James Bond movies
15 other miscellaneous titles.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#283850 - 12/26/09 01:34 AM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11200
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I can account for two of the miscellaneous titles.

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#283858 - 12/26/09 02:53 AM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: CV]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Good one! But not at those prices . . . yet. ;\)
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#287594 - 01/19/10 02:50 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
My curtains arrived! No warning just a ringing doorbell with a UPS truck driving away and a big heavy box at my door, and I mean heavy. Checked them out and it seems Dazian got everything right, I wonít say perfect until theyíre hanging and Iím sure. But even the corner pieces that hang at an angle because of the vaulted ceiling look like they fit just right.

Ok, did I mention these things are heavy. Iíve been using cheap curtains from Wally-World up to now and thereís no comparison. Iím glad I waited to buy the hardware to hang them because the first stuff I was considering probably wouldnít hold up to the weight. I was already considering other hardware for another reason I will post if my plan works out.

Despite being over 70 lbs they shipped them next day air I guess because of the delay in getting the material. Heck the second installment payment just posted to may card as pending today.

Tough not calling I to work today to get this done.


Side note 666 hours on the projector when I shut it down last night.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#287604 - 01/19/10 03:22 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10886
Loc: Central NH
 Originally Posted By: grunt

Side note 666 hours on the projector when I shut it down last night.

Randy?

Wanna let him know what he's in for?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#287688 - 01/19/10 08:34 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: MarkSJohnson]
BigHonu Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 198
Loc: In the middle of the sea
grunt,

How are PLIIx/DSX working out for you? Any more thoughts/observations?

70lb curtains?!!! You may need some kind of heavy duty pulley system to open and close those puppies! \:D


Edited by BigHonu (01/19/10 08:35 PM)

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#287728 - 01/19/10 11:14 PM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: BigHonu]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: BigHonu

How are PLIIx/DSX working out for you? Any more thoughts/observations?


So far I can say w/o a doubt I don't like PLIIz or either DSX height/wides
for most music with the one exception being large outdoor concerts where the
wides are more realistic in their envelopment.

For movies it's still pretty much a coin toss whether the heights or wides
are better but both beat out the rears in my situation. However, I have
been doing some experimenting in anticipation of getting the curtains and
"finalizing" my setup and what I've found so far is pretty straight forward.

Heights - preferred uses: Games and some movies but not music.

Great for ambient sounds like echoes, wind and rain, really impressive when
it happens.

Have slightly more impact when the L/C/R below a large screen.

Generally creates a wall-of-sound effect but coming only from the front.
Can seem tunnel like the farther back the seats.


Wides - preferred uses: Movies and some music (large concerts).

Great for ambient sounds normally occurring on the horizontal plane like
street noise and machinery which happens more often, but not as impressive
as when the heights kick in.

Have more effect the smaller the angle between the mains and the wider the
angle between the wides.

Occasionally throws a directional queue distractingly off the screen.

Cause a sharp rise in volume during some video games when planning off
center.

Don't seem to smooth hard pans from the mains to the surrounds much if at
all.

Occasionally anticipates the arrival of action coming from off screen L/R
but not back to front.

Generally creates a more enveloping soundstage seeming more immersive more
often.

Unfortunately the way the Onkyo 3007 is set up I can't switch easily between
the PLIIz and DSX heights as it requires cycling through all the various
options or switching between modes like "cinema," "music," "game" and "THX."
However, switching between heights and wides in DSX is a simple double
button push.

Note: in all cases I've been testing the heights and wides at the
appropriate angles while I have OTOH been moving the mains around trying
different locations. Also, I've used the default volume settings for the
height and wides. Dolby at least and maybe DSX allows a way to boost or
drop the gain of the heights w/o directly changing the speakers calibration.
I've been limiting some testing and evaluation pending the installation of
my curtains since they will have a huge sonic impact on my room.

 Originally Posted By: BigHonu

70lb curtains?!!! You may need some kind of heavy duty pulley system to open
and close those puppies!


I was a little shocked at how heavy they are, however they will cover both
side walls and the front wall when closed.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#288292 - 01/23/10 02:27 AM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Iíve made enough of changes I thought Iíd post some pictures. Iíve still got a lot of work to do like painting the trim, running cables. I just hate doing the detail stuff cause if it works then that should be good enough.

This picture is looking at the kitchen from the arcadia door. With the curtains closed the room is almost totally black. I had to leave a couple things visible in the pictures to give a sense of perspective. Just like in my apartment itís very disorienting with all the lights off. However, Iíve realized that with a screen this big I will never get the room as dark as my apartment was when watching things on the HDTV. I



This picture is looking back at the arcadia door from the kitchen. The reason thereís no curtains back there is two fold. First I cut out the curtain for the back wall to save money. I found in my apartment that not enough light even reflected off the white back wall to be a problem so Iím not worried about it here with burgundy.

The reason for not curtain on the back of the right wall is that Dazian messed up. Everything they did was perfect including the angle cuts for the valance at the front running up the vaulted ceiling. But when I went to hang the back right curtain panel there was a grommet missing right in the middle. They are fixing it at their expense and I should get it back next week.



This picture is from the arcadia door toward the office (equipment/media room). Also I opened up the curtains at the door/hallways to give a better perspective of what the room really looks like.



Here is a link to the before pictures to see the changes

Before

Like I mentioned I still need to run my wiring. It will be easy since the curtain hooks are doubles with the rod on the out hook. I will just run the wiring along the inner hook and drop it down to each speaker. Thereís no way I could have run the wires in the vaulted ceiling and this way the only hole I have to punch in any wall it to get the wires out of the media room. I might even run the wires through 1 1/2 black PVC pipe which will fit a VGA cable and snap tightly into the inner hook. Not sure if I will bother with that since the bare wires wonít show with the curtains drawn anyway.

Also Iíve decided not to install black carpet. Black just shows way to much dirt to use as permanent flooring. Instead Iím having a throw rug made of black carpet to lay down in front of my seating. Not sure what the real colour will be. I like burgundy to match the walls but I might go with a tan or gold to keep it brighter and paint the trim to match that.




_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#288297 - 01/23/10 07:32 AM Re: New HT Room Advice [Re: grunt]
onn Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 903
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
Looking great Dean. I wish I could do something like that but I don't have the room. Nice pics
Mel
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