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#362421 - 01/02/12 12:21 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: CatBrat]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Just curious. What makes the Revel Salon2 sound better than the Axiom Audio M80's, other than the $20,000 price tag? They do seem to have more speaker surface area, perhaps.

If Revel can outperform M80's for 13.8 times the price, what could a redesigned Axiom hi-end speaker be able to accomplish at say, twice the M80 price?


Salon2 has smaller production runs, extremely well crafted cabinets, high tech hand made drivers, well designed crossovers, all using exotic and no expense spared parts.

I know Axiom likes to compared there speakers to ultra high end stuff and say they sound similar, but the Audioholics shoot out with the M60s they didn't exactly blow the competiton away and it was a blind test and sighted at the end. They did hold there own in the test and IMO performed well against the competition. But to say that Axiom speakers perform with speaker costing 2-4X times the price is over reaching and a little optimistic. I also read that Axiom was alittle pissed at the results of that blind test with the M60s because it was done by them so the M60s could win. Yes Price doesn't mean better sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't.

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#362424 - 01/02/12 03:59 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: JBall]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3127
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Got my interest up on Revel speakers, so I decided to check them out. I don't like the look of plastic speakers, so to me that's a complete turn off. Their upper end towers look like plastic.

The center channel speakers look to be designed and priced similar to the VP160. But the Revel speaker seems to be lacking on the low end. Missing bass ports. I'd take the VP160 over the similarly priced Revel C12 center any day.


I've had the opportunity to demo a pair of Revel Salon2's on multiple occasions and I can tell you they were light years beyond the M60s. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like my M60s and for 1/20th of the price, I am not complaining. Let's just put things into perspective.

I did purchase a pair of JBL towers of similar price to the M60s and compared them directly in my home before sending the JBLs back. Overall I felt the Axioms had more detail in the highs and a bit more low end bass while the JBLs had cleaner midrange. I listen to a lot of jazz and instrumentals more than music with vocals so I kept the Axioms. But I one day aspire to be a Revel owner. smile


Though I do not commonly particpate in these gearhead gauntlets, and I hate to agree with anyone hear [sic], ever, about anything, I am forced to go with JBall on this one. After listening to dozens of speakers, I went with the Axioms, because I could not afford the $8000.00 pr. of Revels I was so hot for.

Nothing I herd [sic] came closed [sic] enough to warrant the 4-6k price tag. Do I still wish I had them? You betcha! Am I at all disappointed in my M60's (if you haven't heared [sic] them in real wood veneer, your [sic] missing out)? Of course not! Frugality is not a side effect of stupidity. More stupidity is the side effect of stupidity.

This is a set-up in need of a mark. Please bite.
_________________________
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#362428 - 01/02/12 05:42 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: BobKay]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I don't believe any of us on this forum believe our Axioms are the end all be all to speakers. I have heard some magnificient Sonus Faber's at $15000 but I really couldn't couldn't justify paying that extra $13000 for them over my M80s nor the extra $3000 for a set of Paradigm S8's I had a chance to buy for a pretty good deal. We do feel our speakers are one of the best bang for the buck speakers out there.

Gene has been pretty good to not mention any names in these articles however it isn't hard to find those same pics he shows from previous articles/reviews and put 2 + 2 together. IMO it would have been better for him to build his own XO's to prove his points, they are after all cheap and easy to make..
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#362430 - 01/02/12 06:05 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: jakewash]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5819
Loc: Some random location
Just to be clear (or decoding what I thought I said):

I was only talking about the $600 Revel C12 center speaker, compared to the VP160, that the VP160 "looks" like it would sound better.

I also believe that if Axiom designed a speaker that cost about 2 or 3 times as much as the M80, that it would probably sound better than an M80.

Also, I'm pretty sure that there would be a market for it, especially if they could give some of the upper priced brands a run for their money.

That was my 3 points.


Edited by CatBrat (01/02/12 06:19 PM)

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#362435 - 01/02/12 07:52 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: CatBrat]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
I really wonder, if the guts of an M80 were transplanted in to the somewhat more elaborate cabinetry of a pair of top-of the-line Sonus Faber, Revel, B&W Series 800 or any other so-called floor-standing "high-end" speaker line, after listening to them without knowing the brand name, would a potential buyer be willing to pay $8000 "plus" a pair for them?

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#362436 - 01/02/12 08:05 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: casey01]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: casey01
I really wonder, if the guts of an M80 were transplanted in to the somewhat more elaborate cabinetry of a pair of top-of the-line Sonus Faber, Revel, B&W Series 800 or any other so-called floor-standing "high-end" speaker line, after listening to them without knowing the brand name, would a potential buyer be willing to pay $8000 "plus" a pair for them?


Or take cheap Sony Bookshelf speaker parts and put them in an Axiom cabinet and watch the Axiomites go crazy for them. Goes both ways.

Those expensive speakers also have cabinets that are better built and better braced, crossovers use better quality parts and are designed better, exterior of the cabinets have better finishes, higher end drivers. Less distortion, deeper extension, high SPLs ect.

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#362437 - 01/02/12 08:10 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: casey01]
FireGuy Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 309
Loc: Buffalo, New York
Maybe something like this? (Source: Audio Circle - Bryston Loudspeaker thread):












Edited by FireGuy (01/02/12 08:10 PM)
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#362438 - 01/02/12 08:17 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: gtpsuper]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Originally Posted By: casey01
I really wonder, if the guts of an M80 were transplanted in to the somewhat more elaborate cabinetry of a pair of top-of the-line Sonus Faber, Revel, B&W Series 800 or any other so-called floor-standing "high-end" speaker line, after listening to them without knowing the brand name, would a potential buyer be willing to pay $8000 "plus" a pair for them?


Or take cheap Sony Bookshelf speaker parts and put them in an Axiom cabinet and watch the Axiomites go crazy for them. Goes both ways.

Those expensive speakers also have cabinets that are better built and better braced, crossovers use better quality parts and are designed better, exterior of the cabinets have better finishes, higher end drivers. Less distortion, deeper extension, high SPLs ect.


Well, it seems your mind was made up a long time ago so I am not really sure why you are even part of the discussion?
By the way, based on your description of "alleged" superiority of all the items you listed, there is absolutely NOTHING based in fact that these so-called improvements relate to "superior" sound. I believe I have some knowledge in this area because I have been in the business for over 25 years!

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#362441 - 01/02/12 08:56 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: casey01]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Never said anything about those speakers sounding better. For someone in the business over 25 years you should know that, exotic cabinets, drivers made of exotic materials or multiple drivers, higher quality crossover components, exotic woods or laminates cost alot of money. When your working with a larger budget to build a speaker you can acheive great SPLs, low distortion and or deeper extension.

What I gather from your post was anyone who purchased Sonus Faber, Revel, B&W, Paradigm ect. Would have been better off if they just purchased Axiom?

Its Axiom knows best to hell with everyone else attitude on here.




Edited by gtpsuper (01/02/12 08:56 PM)

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#362442 - 01/02/12 09:11 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: gtpsuper]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5819
Loc: Some random location
I didn't get that from this conversation at all. Axiom customers frequent Axiom forums because they like the product for what it is. They know there are better speakers out there, but they are not willing, or able, to pay the exorbitant prices they are asking for them. Niche needed. Niche filled. No one is debunking the other products, except you.

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