Get Free, Friendly, Expert Advice
Call 1-866-244-8796 or email

Designed and Manufactured in Canada Since 1980


AxiomAudio Blog

Outdoor Speaker Placement

Speaker Placement: Unusual Room Layouts and Elevating Speakers

Positioning Floorstanding Speakers

Wall'O'Fame
Greetings fellow Axiom owners...
HG Rosewoods Part 3
Who's Online
3 registered (J. B., medic8r, Ajax), 125 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Financing
Forum Stats
13294 Members
11 Forums
22822 Topics
403176 Posts

Max Online: 378 @ 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Top Posters
Ken.C 17739
pmbuko 16257
SirQuack 13318
CV 11136
MarkSJohnson 10829
Meanwhile On Facebook

Hope everyone's got their summer favourite playlists cued up for the weekend! W...

(y) Love this customer review of the M2s! "the first time listening to my new a...

These LFR1100 speakers in custom Eggshell White are on their way to Taiwan (yes,...

Friday the 13th . . . oooooh! Who's your favorite Slasher flick character?

Page 1 of 19 1 2 3 ... 18 19 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#369690 - 03/14/12 12:51 PM Scoop on Axiom Subs?
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Possibly an inappropriate question for the Axiom board, but I've always been curious what the deal is on the price of Axiom subs.

The more or less accepted word on Axiom non-subs is that they are high quality performers at a price point below that of similar quality competitors.

But that doesn't appear to be the case with Axiom subs. The EP125 is $128 more than the Hsu STF1 (+47%), and the EP175 is $233 more than the STF2 (+67%). Hsu is regarded as a not inexpensive higher-end sub, and the respective subs look comparable.

So why the incongruity on sub pricing compared to non-sub pricing?

[For reference, I'll add that I'm not a troll. I love my M22s, and my son loves his M3s (that I bought him!). And I frequently post positive comments regarding my Axioms on other sites. (Mostly Hometheaterforum, and sometime AVS when I'm feeling brave.)]


Edited by Cork (03/14/12 12:52 PM)

Top
#369703 - 03/14/12 01:33 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 759
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Cork
Possibly an inappropriate question for the Axiom board, but I've always been curious what the deal is on the price of Axiom subs.

The more or less accepted word on Axiom non-subs is that they are high quality performers at a price point below that of similar quality competitors.

But that doesn't appear to be the case with Axiom subs. The EP125 is $128 more than the Hsu STF1 (+47%), and the EP175 is $233 more than the STF2 (+67%). Hsu is regarded as a not inexpensive higher-end sub, and the respective subs look comparable.

So why the incongruity on sub pricing compared to non-sub pricing?

[For reference, I'll add that I'm not a troll. I love my M22s, and my son loves his M3s (that I bought him!). And I frequently post positive comments regarding my Axioms on other sites. (Mostly Hometheaterforum, and sometime AVS when I'm feeling brave.)]


Ultimately, only the "chiefs" at Axiom can determine how their pricing is formulated, but, in the case of the subs, when comparing to HSU in particular(along with several others), you will notice on their website despite stating "designed and engineered in the USA" only the "top-of-the line" ULS series is actually "assembled" in the US as opposed to China for most of their other models. You will also notice, the ULS subs cost considerably more. Other than the drivers, all the Axiom subs are designed, engineered and assembled in Canada, so, no doubt, a cost structure similar to the US, hence, the price differential.

In the case of the sub price structure, I am only speculating, however, that could be the reason for the difference you are questioning.

Top
#369704 - 03/14/12 01:38 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1842
I think it comes from the DSP... I have a buddy who recently was in the sub market, and he had the same comment as yourself... He wound up going with a HSU sub, i dont remember which one though....



That is the only thing that i could see would drive up the price... The amp section/DSP, which is part of the amp...

With that being said, i bought a EP600 on pre-order back in the day when they first came out with that sub, and i have recently placed an order for a second 600... There is 0 distortion from the sub... Am i paying more than an alternate product, possibly... But honestly i dont care, the 600 sounds freakin awsome laugh..


I hope this helps answer your question...

Top
#369711 - 03/14/12 03:36 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8267
Loc: Tacoma
+1 on all-of-the-above.

Some other ID companies don't include shipping.

"Value" is a subjective thing.

Also, Axiom offers a choice of standard and custom finishes (albeit, custom at additional cost) not always available with other vendors. Not everybody wants black.

I'm not sure that Axiom has adequately articulated their philosophy on subs. Many/most companies and consumers are seduced by the seemingly straightforward specifications available in subwoofer marketing. One of the things NOT commonly discussed is the amount of distortion at particular frequencies. I think it's safe to say that there is honest and respectful disagreement about audibility of distortion at low frequencies. My understanding is that Axiom subs are engineered to deliver high spls without correspondingly high distortion found in some competing models. As to whether or not that notion "matters", I'm not sure. But I continue to trust Axiom designs, because I perceive them primarily as an R&D company.

I own an older SVS sub, btw. The bottom-firing form factor was a key criterion when I was shopping, and was not offered by Axiom. I have heard Axiom subs on several occasions (including direct comparisons) and thought they were just wonderful.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

Top
#369754 - 03/14/12 09:40 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Here's my 2 cents on the whole axiom sub pricing. I have owned both the ep350 and dual ep500's. Yes, I could have gotten less expensive subs and researched many subs prior to purchasing. But at the time and for me, the quality sound of axiom subs for music along with dsp control, was very much worth every penny I paid. No regrets.

However, I have moved more to movies as of late and needed more impact. And I mean impact that would peel the paint off the walls. You can see in my sig obviously I now have duals 18 inch subs by CHT. Sold the dual ep500's. Would I have liked to get dual ep800's? Of course, I just didn't have the coin to do so.

If I could afford the dual ep800's, I certainly would have purchased them and yes, they would peel the paint off the walls as well.

Perception is reality, I spent less money getting the impact I wanted, but again I would not hesitate recommending axiom subs. Yes, you "may" pay more, but they have a sound all thier own, that one must hear to appreciate.


Edited by Dduval (03/14/12 10:04 PM)
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

Top
#369807 - 03/15/12 01:11 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Hmmm … I appreciate the hypotheses, but I’m not yet convinced there’s a good reason for Axiom’s subwoofer pricing structure.

It’s not the DSP. The lower three models, which include the 2 models I mentioned, don’t have that feature. Neither Axiom nor Hsu publish SPL graphs for those subs, with or without distortion information, so there’s no reason to believe one is better than the other. I’ll add that quality is the reason I used Hsu as a comparison, as they are generally considered high quality.

Local labor is a good reason. I’d be willing to pay a bit more for a product made in North America, but 50% more taxes my good will in that regard. So if that’s the reason I’d say it’s not a good one. The Axioms definitely look nicer than the default black (which Hsu uses), so there’s that.

Oh well, thanks for the feedback. I’d say I still can’t justify spending the money for an Axiom sub. It just seems so strange that the apparent cost/performance ratio for subs is a 180 from that for the other speakers.

I’m not actually in the market for a sub; the question came about as I was doing the usual window shopping and thinking "wouldn’t it be nice ..." I guess I'll have to go back to pining over the M60s.

Top
#369813 - 03/15/12 02:10 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Jasper Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Cork
It just seems so strange that the apparent cost/performance ratio for subs is a 180 from that for the other speakers.

The other speakers don't have amps. That's the one thing that sets the subs apart from the other speakers, isn't it?

Top
#369826 - 03/15/12 03:55 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8267
Loc: Tacoma
Right, Jasper, and I don't think that Axiom uses off-the-shelf amps. I don't know where they are manufactured, but suspect they are not simply a rebranded version of something else.

Well, we're really looking at the issue from a consumer perspective without ANY meaningful knowledge of the actual sourcing and manufacturing costs. So, I guess I'm confident/comfortable that Axiom's "pricing structure" makes sense for them. If they thought it would be more profitable to price the subs lower and sell more of them, I'm sure that's what they would do.

Again, in my somewhat limited experience, I think the Axiom subs sound very natural. Perhaps somewhat "dry" compared to other models; a bit like the bass extension from a transmission-line loudspeaker.

I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that the "cost/performance ratio for subs is a 180 from that for the other speakers". Individuals might perceive different levels of value from different products, but that phrasing implies that the speakers are a great value and the subs are a terrible value. I just don't think that's fair.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

Top
#369827 - 03/15/12 04:05 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: tomtuttle]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1842
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Right, Jasper, and I don't think that Axiom uses off-the-shelf amps. I don't know where they are manufactured, but suspect they are not simply a rebranded version of something else.


They aren't rebranded amps, i have replaced the amp in my EP600, so i have seen the old version of the amps and the new version.. They are not using another companies product and putting an axiom name plate on it. When i ordered my new amp, Brent said that the amp that was coming to me was in the quality control booth ( I may have called him a couple times to check on the status of my new purchase smile ).. So they essentially built an amp just for me... Well, pulled one off of the shelf and tested prior to sending to me anyhow.. But you get my point. If Brent was able to find out where the product was in the manufacturing process within a day and tell me where it was in the manufacturing process, it is almost guaranteed that it is manufactured in house.

Top
#369868 - 03/16/12 10:55 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: dakkon]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 500
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Originally Posted By: dakkon
. . . it is almost guaranteed that it is manufactured in house.


Hi Dakkon,

Axiom subwoofer amplifiers as all Axiom amplifiers are designed and built in house by Axiom. It has been the case for many years.
_________________________
jc
Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Recrutement d'Intégrateurs/Installateurs professionnels Québec

Top
Page 1 of 19 1 2 3 ... 18 19 >



Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Home  |  Corporate Info  |  Products  |  Message Board  |  FAQs  |  Warranty  |  Site Map  |  Privacy Statement   |  Contact Us

©2014 Colquhoun Audio Laboratories Limited
All Rights Reserved.