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#372204 - 04/06/12 02:17 PM Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say?
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 811
Like many of you, I have been wondering what on earth all the vitriolic Axiom-bashing that is showing up on this message board and others is all about. We’ve always followed the same principals of loudspeaker design, and although some aspects may not be considered mainstream, we firmly believe in taking a scientific approach to loudspeaker design, regardless of what the ‘flavour of the month’ is with reviewers, competitors’ products, or trends on message boards. We stick by our research and that makes us unpopular from time to time. That is all part of doing business and of being true to our ethos.

Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way, and today I have some very disturbing news I feel obligated to share. The rampant bashing we have been receiving for some time now has left many of you - and myself - scratching our heads as to what in the world would be causing it. We are beginning to find the answer, and the news is quite shocking. We have evidence that shows that at least one of the bashers, JBall, sends his or her posts from the same IP address that is used by Gene DellaSala from Audioholics when he logs onto our message boards, as well as when he sends emails to Axiom. This has led me to believe that JBall is in fact Gene himself.

As I have mentioned before I was bothered after the opening of the Audioholics store by the fact that we were sending money and product for supposed objective independent review to a competitor in the marketplace. The fact that Audioholics was purporting to be an independent source of reliable commentary while also building up what would best be described as a house brand speaker line did not sit well with me either.

There was some talk after the store first opened of selling our products in the store, which would then at least change it to a quasi-dealer relationship. After much pondering on this we decided that it simply did not fit with our business model and in the summer of 2010 we cut our ties with Audioholics. This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it.

We do have further evidence that shows the scope of the problem is larger than just the postings being made by the IP sharing JBall but we do not yet know the full extent of how deep it really goes. We may or may not investigate it further as we are really not people who wish to spend time delving into this kind of pure negativity. We really just want to have fun with our customers and provide the best products and service we can offer. The majority of people we come in contact with every day are happy with their Axiom products and their experiences with our company, and those are the people we wish to focus on.

I guess if I had to look for a positive in all of this it would be that there is a certain odd flattery in realizing your competition fears what you are doing so much that they would resort to these kinds of tactics. More importantly, I want to thank those of you who have braved the wrath of these people here and on other message boards. I know how draining the negativity can be. I appreciate your support.

In closing I would actually like to extend my apologies to those who make legitimate posts in our forum with real opinions that are not favourable towards us. We watch these sorts of things as they can contain information that leads to product and service improvements. I am not talking about the endless repeaters of the same negative opinion over and over again that we do not agree with and therefore are not going to change. Or those who bash with no firsthand experience with the product they are bashing. That sort of behavior is not constructive to anyone. But to all the others making constructive points, that we need to either respond to with our reasons or change in order to keep making the products and overall experience with Axiom better.

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#372207 - 04/06/12 02:31 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
i would investigate further if i was you; you have a business to run, not run it down.
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#372209 - 04/06/12 02:33 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11271
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Ian, that's certainly very disturbing. I appreciate your stance on the whole situation, though, and I think customers are going to respond to that.

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#372211 - 04/06/12 02:34 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Speechless
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#372212 - 04/06/12 02:35 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
Wow.

You know, Ian, I've found myself thinking that I'm sorry that you, Amie and other Axiom folks have had to deal with all of this.

I know you put your heart into your business and the satisfaction of your customers. Your exemplary customer service demonstrates that.

Thank you for posting this (unfortunately disturbing) news and your thoughts on the matter.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372215 - 04/06/12 02:39 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
JB, I can assure you they did a complete job investigating and confirming before creating this post. Your comments make no sense, actually the other party is the one that is being unprofessional and running Axiom down for a year or so under a fake name under a rock.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372218 - 04/06/12 02:40 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1063
Disturbing if this is the case.

I sure hope that the IP Address thing is correct. If not, there will be hell to pay...

TAM

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#372220 - 04/06/12 02:44 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SirQuack]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
SirQuack, Ian wrote in his post:"We may or may not investigate it further..."
which is the reason i wrote what i wrote.
he should not let that go.


Edited by J. B. (04/06/12 02:47 PM)
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#372221 - 04/06/12 02:49 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
I wish I thought this was going to help.

Lawyer up, Ian.

I like Axiom products. I respect the Axiom people. I have made many friends here. I am unashamed in my support.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#372222 - 04/06/12 02:53 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
oh I understand, thanks JB, wasn't trying to be negative... cheers my friend!
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372223 - 04/06/12 02:55 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto
Although we hear about it every day, we have now a "head on" example of how someone with some influence(and hiding behind a fictional name), is using the internet in a very negative, vicious and cowardly fashion.

This is quite disturbing, although, when one thinks long and hard about it, not particularly surprising. I really could never understand why when this whole thing started to flare up to the degree it did, there was the odd superficial intervention by the principles at Audioholics asking "meekly" to tone down the rhetoric but, in the end, nothing was ever really done to quell the nonsense or ban any of those that were constantly doing it. It would seem Ian's comments, unfortunately, expose exactly why.

In my opinion now, whatever credibility the folks at Audioholics had left, has now totally disappeared.

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#372229 - 04/06/12 03:01 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
I agree Casey.

I've spent a few minutes perusing JBall's posts here and it's interesting to say the least. Especially his last one involving the Audioholics shootout.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372230 - 04/06/12 03:02 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4082
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
So Jball is in fact Gene? That's really messed up. I've always had the up most respect for Gene and Audioholics. I'm quite stunned.
_________________________
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#372231 - 04/06/12 03:04 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: BlueJays1]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Now you probably have the down most respect for him, eh?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#372234 - 04/06/12 03:08 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I agree Casey.

I've spent a few minutes perusing JBall's posts here and it's interesting to say the least. Especially his last one involving the Audioholics shootout.


I would suspect that should "JBall" never post again then we will, obviously, have our answer.

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#372235 - 04/06/12 03:12 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: casey01]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: casey01
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I agree Casey.

I've spent a few minutes perusing JBall's posts here and it's interesting to say the least. Especially his last one involving the Audioholics shootout.


I would suspect that should "JBall" never post again then we will, obviously, have our answer.


if he's intelligent enough, then he will post again, just to diminish suspicion.
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#372237 - 04/06/12 03:17 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Where is John when you need him.... Ble, he is probably working.....


Ian, in a way that explains some of the bizar posts made by the user Jball.. He was asking questions in the LFR thread about the case v.s. stamped and would not let it go, also bizar questions in the subwoofer thread... i know i was kind of wondering what was going on.. i guess it makes it clear now.....


I would say do some more investigating, if you can prove it was Gene, then lawyer up and take him down the American/Apple way....

It would be interesting to see if he is feeding the fuel over at audioholics under an assumed used, then logging in as Gene to "save face"

Wasn't audioholics the company that was doing the "subwoofer shoot out" that Ian decided not to participate in? Maybe your gut instinct about them was right on many months ago Ian?

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#372238 - 04/06/12 03:17 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I've long since given up posting in those types of threads and had second thoughts on posting in this one but I would like to thank Ian for posting his views on the events at hand.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#372239 - 04/06/12 03:18 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
JBall is one of the few people I have on ignore here. Audioholics is the site that brought me to Axiom, yet I'll never visit them again, if this turns out to be true. That would be ironic.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#372240 - 04/06/12 03:19 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: pmbuko]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Now you probably have the down most respect for him, eh?


Hey, come on now... typo's are an easy and inadvertent oversight.

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#372241 - 04/06/12 03:21 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SirQuack]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: SirQuack
oh I understand, thanks JB, wasn't trying to be negative... cheers my friend!


to me, it was just a misunderstanding; i need more than that in order to read "negative".
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#372242 - 04/06/12 03:28 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
Ian, thanks for the inside information. Us true Axiomites as always have your back. We will not be swayed by those who speak with a serpent's tongue, or those who chose too throw daggers from the shadows.
_________________________
"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#372248 - 04/06/12 03:45 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Thanks Ian,

This would make sense now, especially if anyone has seen the "Jball" posts at blu-ray.

I think he posted over there today actually... confused
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#372250 - 04/06/12 03:48 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
and has been reading this post since created.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372252 - 04/06/12 03:50 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SirQuack]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Originally Posted By: SirQuack
and has been reading this post since created.


Yes, I see that...maybe he can respond...
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#372253 - 04/06/12 03:51 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: dakkon]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Those of you who understand computing will know better than I, but JBall and Gene having the same IP number means that they are using the same computer (internet connection? Modem?), correct? They, in fact, then may be different people. However, may we assume, at the very least, JBall must have some connection to Gene, Audioholics, or both?
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#372255 - 04/06/12 03:56 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Same Internet connection. There could be 1 computer or 100 computers (or more) behind that connection. If it is always the same IP address, from day to day, it's probably statically assigned, and likely the connection that belongs to a business (most home users don't get static IPs).

Courts have ruled that an IP address does not equal a person, but with other details it can paint a part of the whole picture.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#372256 - 04/06/12 03:57 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ajax]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
I dunno but wasn't Axiom hacked the other day regarding some credit card scheme....as was posted over at avs and CAM(canuck audio mart)?
Come on people somebody has hacked into Gene's system and using his IP...it freaking happened to me a few yrs back!

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#372257 - 04/06/12 04:06 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I'll let Ian give out the details on the IP address should he want to, but from what he told us, it was fairly conclusive. Not a one off thing.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#372259 - 04/06/12 04:07 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: ClubNeon]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Ian brought the customer council in on his decision to go public with this, and we are therefore privy to some information/evidence that he did not disclose. I won't disclose it here, but I feel, as an IT professional, I can say that the IP address connection is solid. Some very sophisticated individual would need to have framed Gene in order for the numbers to line up like they did.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#372260 - 04/06/12 04:08 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
And it would have had to be very long term.
_________________________
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#372264 - 04/06/12 04:42 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
So, the real question is, why haven't we used this fancy technology to figure out who bbigwyres is yet?

Or could the person behind bbiggie just be that slick?! wink
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372265 - 04/06/12 04:42 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
FordPrefect Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 1335
Loc: Ancaster, Ontario
Not much I can add to this. My respect for Axiom, the company and the people has always been strong.

I guess it's the sign of the times that being able to hid behind a keyboard gives the gutless the ability do things that they would never do in a face to face situation.

If it would be possible to pursue this to a satisfactory conclusion I would advise it. If not an old saying comes to mind..."on the internet never argue with an idiot."

Ian and the rest deserve much better than this.
_________________________
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#372266 - 04/06/12 04:45 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
They can't track IP's from BigRigs, they are always heading down the highway and jumping IPs.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372268 - 04/06/12 04:58 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Ah, so that's how you do it, Randy.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372269 - 04/06/12 05:03 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Hmm, the more I think of it, John Gabriel's Greater Internet Theory is a piece of genius.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372273 - 04/06/12 05:17 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
ghost271 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 75
Thanks for clarifying things Ian.
I had been reading the bashing over the last few weeks and was rather concerned if buying my Axiom had been a bad choice and perhaps i had been 'duped'. Then to calm my fears, all i had to do was go downstairs to my theatre and put on a few demo blurays, and a couple CDs. At that point i was so happy with what i heard, that quite frankly i didnt care. I was and still am EXTREMELY happy with my Axiom system.
_________________________
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QS8s

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#372275 - 04/06/12 05:20 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I'm at the "I don't care point" with these issues. I never even bother to read the messages (about this topic) on the other sites anymore.

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#372276 - 04/06/12 05:21 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 278
Loc: Alexandria, VA
hey, medic8r, do you have a vanity plate saying the same thing? if you do, i've seen your here in car here in alexandria!
_________________________
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OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 105D&93

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#372277 - 04/06/12 05:25 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: CatBrat]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I'm at the "I don't care point" with these issues. I never even bother to read the messages (about this topic) on the other sites anymore.



Cat, i think that almost all of us who currently own the product have the same view.. However, potential new customers may be dissuaded from buying Axiom if they read the forums, and formulate an opinion off of what they read. In the long run axiom would not be able to gain market share, which would limit their future ability to increase capital and R&D money...

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#372278 - 04/06/12 05:26 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: solarrdadd]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Indeed he does. I've seen it parked in front of his house. smile
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#372279 - 04/06/12 05:28 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: pmbuko]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 278
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Indeed he does. I've seen it parked in front of his house. smile


Small world, huh!?!

just trying to remember, I either see it at the courthouse or cityhall garages.
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 105D&93

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#372281 - 04/06/12 05:33 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
My current plate is a non-vanity one - someone else is medic8ing up there at the courthouse. He may have gotten stung in an opioid crackdown...
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372284 - 04/06/12 05:50 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: medic8r]
solarrdadd Offline
local

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 278
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: medic8r
My current plate is a non-vanity one - someone else is medic8ing up there at the courthouse. He may have gotten stung in an opioid crackdown...


i'll be sure and take a picture of it and post it here for ya!
_________________________
SonySXRD55"
OnkyoPR-SC5507P pre-amp
Emotiva XPA-5,UPA-2amps,
14 Speakers, All Axiom
Oppo 105D&93

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#372289 - 04/06/12 06:37 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: J. B.]
a401classic Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1194
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Originally Posted By: J. B.
i would investigate further if i was you; you have a business to run protect!


Depending on how damaging this may have been to sales, I think I'd go after it as well.

This must be the thing to do these days. One of the local DA prosecutors had several on-line aliases and was badmouthing the clients he defended in court - cost him his job and the DA's office is looking at prosecuting him.

Scott
_________________________
Scott

My HT

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#372290 - 04/06/12 06:39 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Dakkon, to get back on point, you are correct, if we stop providing input on other forums people can get misinformation from people like Jbally. I used to frequent AVS long before I heard about Axiom. Once I became an Axiom owner, AVS was not a bad place to hang out. There was a lot of good conversation from both sides. Move forward a few years and I just got tired of trying to defend issues. There were a few people that cast a few posts on reasons they didn't like Axiom, and that is ok. Enter the trolls that have other agendas and never go away.

It is not constructive or good for the industry. Most manufacturers have respect for each other and mingle at product shows. This is how everone grows. It is unfortunate that one of those so called professionals would stoop to this type of tactics. I'm sure it goes on more than we know.

All the respect I used to have for the many reviews on Audioholics just got flushed down the old toilet. However, I guess that is not fair for the others that provided articles on that site.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372294 - 04/06/12 07:14 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: ClubNeon]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4082
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
JBall is one of the few people I have on ignore here. Audioholics is the site that brought me to Axiom, yet I'll never visit them again, if this turns out to be true. That would be ironic.


Same here. I have always found Audioholics a very educational place. The go to site for reviews, articles, commentary (controversial or not). I even received a pleasant PM from Gene at this forum under Gene DellaSalla a few years ago.

This is just bizarre and if true destroys his integrity and that of the website. There is a line crossed when you are "in the industry". And I ALWAYS liked Audioholics and supported them on this forum. These are the type of things you learn about that make me want to drop this hobby all together.

_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#372298 - 04/06/12 08:04 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Man that's wild about Gene, I never thought somebody in his position would have stooped so low.

What an idiot.

Makes me even more glad that I am a part of the Axiom community.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#372299 - 04/06/12 08:05 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1215
Loc: Whitehorse YT
This really doesnt surprise me in the least. It's sad when someone has an agenda and they hide behind their keyboard.I don't think anyone with a sound mind will read what is at the bluray forum and not see it for what it is. I read it,and i find it quite obvious what the writers intentions are. Furthermore ian, at the very least i would seek council to find out what my options were in regards to slander.Sometime's the best response is none at all. A simple counter reaction is to post ourselve's on those thread and extole the axiom brand virtues.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#372330 - 04/06/12 09:51 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: RickF]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7229
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: RickF
Man that's wild about Gene, I never thought somebody in his position would have stooped so low.

What an idiot.

What we know so far is that the originating IP is Audioholics. The identity of the idiot remains to be determined.

If this were politics, there would be an underling under the bus in short order. I don't know if that's funny, sad or both.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372331 - 04/06/12 09:55 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
It's more specific than Audioholics, actually.
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#372341 - 04/06/12 11:09 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
And Gene responds...

Wow this is certainly turning out to NOT be a “Good Friday”. It’s unfortunate that Axiom posted this without consulting with me first to examine the facts but I can understand their frustration. The reality of this situation is I hired a close friend of the family about 4 years ago who is now a struggling freshman college student in need of cash. I needed assistance at our corporate office to publish editorial content (none of which was written by him as he is NOT a writer) and also help me move heavy audio gear given the recent back issues I’ve been having. Over the years I’ve been mentoring him on the A/V business and having private conversations about the industry in general. What I didn’t realize was the extent in which he was posting on the forums and under the name “JBALL’ without revealing he unofficially does work for Audioholics. I guess I should have suspected why he was billing me 3+ hours to post a 4-5 page editorial that I could do in ½ the time.

I do however take issue with the following statement made by Ian:

“This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it”.

I can only suspect Ian wrote this out of anger when he discovered JBALL was doing work for our organization. I have always wished Axiom well in their business and I simply don’t use that kind of language nor do I recall ever saying such a thing. We have always given Axiom a fair shake in our reviews and editorials including allowing them the opportunity to peer review all content we publish on their products.

Although we have had disagreements on some aspects of loudspeaker design and theory, we’ve always managed to find common ground with each other. I have always considered Ian/Amie as friends, not just business partners.

In any event, I apologize for this incident and deserve the public flaming in the forums as a result. I take full responsibility for JBALL’s actions and feel quite embarrassed and regretful about these chain of events. Certainly mistakes were made on both sides but our goal is to move forward and rebuild the strong relationship we once forged.

I had a great conversation with Ian/Amie about this and assured them he would NEVER be posting on a public A/V forum again. I asked Axiom to suspend JBALL account and remove all negative posts towards Axiom. Thank you for listening.

__________________
Gene DellaSala
President, Audioholics
Pursuing the truth in audio & video...

_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#372342 - 04/06/12 11:10 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ken.C]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Gene has just issued a statement...taking full responsibilty...for JBALLs actions.

See above.... blush


Edited by billy p (04/06/12 11:12 PM)

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#372343 - 04/06/12 11:32 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1215
Loc: Whitehorse YT
cough cough bullshit cough cough.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#372344 - 04/06/12 11:40 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
This is from another forum & member, He said this 1st post Jball ever made on blu ray makes Gene's response all the more interesting...I would have to agree.


Originally Posted by JBALL
The Audioholics review of the M80 system is a joke at best. So are most reviews of Axiom product. They read like a product brochure. I have come to learn you can only read product reviews to get tech data but not real credible opinions. I'd much rather read user experiences on the forums like this one.

I purchased a complete Axiom system b/c of these glowing reviews. I initially liked the system (M60V3, VP150, QS8, EP600). Then I started noticing voices weren't very clear if I didn't sit center seat. AVS threads educated me as to why.

The M60v3s don't sound bad, but at high listening, the midrange gets very broken up, and you can see the woofer moving. I found out they don't use a crossover in that part of the speaker!

I recently heard a pair of Sierra Towers side by side and they totally stomped my Axioms so I was fortunate enough to sell my Axiom system (except my QS8s) to my neighbor. I ordered the Sierra Towers and looking forward to the upgrade.


http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1947
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#372345 - 04/06/12 11:40 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Socketman]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Yeah....he owned up to it but...not knowing come on but to what extent...maybe.

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#372346 - 04/06/12 11:44 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Socketman]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
That's pretty bad Gene! Honestly.....


Edited by SBrown (04/06/12 11:45 PM)
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372347 - 04/06/12 11:57 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: dakkon]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I'm at the "I don't care point" with these issues. I never even bother to read the messages (about this topic) on the other sites anymore.



Cat, i think that almost all of us who currently own the product have the same view.. However, potential new customers may be dissuaded from buying Axiom if they read the forums, and formulate an opinion off of what they read. In the long run axiom would not be able to gain market share, which would limit their future ability to increase capital and R&D money...


Perhaps, but, my reading the messages isn't going to help anyone.

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#372348 - 04/06/12 11:59 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Dduval]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Originally Posted By: Dduval
This is from another forum & member, He said this 1st post Jball ever made on blu ray makes Gene's response all the more interesting...I would have to agree.


Originally Posted by JBALL
The Audioholics review of the M80 system is a joke at best. So are most reviews of Axiom product. They read like a product brochure. I have come to learn you can only read product reviews to get tech data but not real credible opinions. I'd much rather read user experiences on the forums like this one.

I purchased a complete Axiom system b/c of these glowing reviews. I initially liked the system (M60V3, VP150, QS8, EP600). Then I started noticing voices weren't very clear if I didn't sit center seat. AVS threads educated me as to why.

The M60v3s don't sound bad, but at high listening, the midrange gets very broken up, and you can see the woofer moving. I found out they don't use a crossover in that part of the speaker!

I recently heard a pair of Sierra Towers side by side and they totally stomped my Axioms so I was fortunate enough to sell my Axiom system (except my QS8s) to my neighbor. I ordered the Sierra Towers and looking forward to the upgrade.


http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1947



I have to also say that's one hell of axiom system Jball purchased since according to Gene, he is now a struggling student in need of cash. Plus he just bought Acsend towers after he sold his m60's to his neighbor just recently as well... grin
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#372349 - 04/07/12 12:08 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SBrown]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Lets go slowly. What Gene says certainly could be the case.

The problem, for us, with his explanation is that, if he himself were culpable in some way (and I'm not saying he is), his explanation is precisely what one would expect to hear - an anonymous, young individual, "unofficially" working for Audioholics, was rogue posting all over the internet, for months, without anyone knowing.

Also, his explanation raises as many questions as it provides answers. Did JBall actually buy and own Axioms as he claimed? Why the hatred for Axiom and its products? We know gtpsuper's and Jinx/Pure-Evil's motivation, what was JBall's?

I am hoping there is more to come from Axiom which will confirm or contradict what Gene has said so we will actually KNOW the facts.

At the least, we now know that Ian was dealing with facts.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#372350 - 04/07/12 12:20 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Exactly Jack, if Gene was mentoring this kid "over the years", and claims to have respect for Axiom, Ian, and Amie, something is just not right. Why all the evil towards Axiom, and no other companies, and prying for information to be disclosed. Also, many of the comments have knowledge/technical statements that would not come from some 16-18yr old kid, oh yeah he had consulting "over the years". You are what you eat, and you spew what you learn from your mentors. jm2c but to me it is all BS. I could be wrong, and I hope I am. Even if this is true, why would you let someone use your email address to send emails on your behalf. If that is true he would be fired in an instance.

Ok, off to enjoy a beer and forget about this nonsense.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372355 - 04/07/12 12:31 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SirQuack]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11271
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Even after Gene supposedly made up with Axiom, he was still putting little jabs at Axiom into his write-ups. This need to school Axiom on how loudspeakers should be made goes along quite well with the JBall personality. While I don't know all of the facts, and I'm not privy to all of the circumstances leading up to this point, it's hard to buy the story so far.

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#372356 - 04/07/12 12:37 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: CV]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7229
Loc: Canada
Hmm... relative under the bus is a creative twist. Seems fishy. I have no idea what to believe, but the bottom line is someone affiliated with Audioholics has been surreptitiously attacking Axiom.

That is a very, very sad thing.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372357 - 04/07/12 12:41 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1670
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
We'll likely never really know for sure.
_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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#372358 - 04/07/12 12:41 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: ghost271]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1670
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: ghost271
Thanks for clarifying things Ian.
I had been reading the bashing over the last few weeks and was rather concerned if buying my Axiom had been a bad choice and perhaps i had been 'duped'. Then to calm my fears, all i had to do was go downstairs to my theatre and put on a few demo blurays, and a couple CDs. At that point i was so happy with what i heard, that quite frankly i didnt care. I was and still am EXTREMELY happy with my Axiom system.


Indeed!
_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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#372359 - 04/07/12 12:45 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
In re-reading Gene's statement, he mentions the nice "chat" with Ian and Amie, and assured them "he" meaning Jball would no longer cause these types of disruptions. Why not put Jball on the phone or video skype to personally appologize to Amie and Ian. Of course that could be staged as well, but if he is in fact a person, adult, college student, or whatever, that would help confirm he is not fiction.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372360 - 04/07/12 01:05 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: fredk]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4849
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: fredk
Hmm... relative under the bus is a creative twist. Seems fishy. I have no idea what to believe, but the bottom line is someone affiliated with Audioholics has been surreptitiously attacking Axiom.

That is a very, very sad thing.

I agree 100%.

My father used to be a cop, coincidentally in the province of Ontario. One thing he always said that i continue to struggle to apply, is "there are two sides to every story". It is very easy to get caught up in the only side you hear.

Granted there are not enough specifics to peg down the exact 'culprit' but the fact that Gene has admitted to the Audioholics connection at the very least confirms the basis of the story; that someone at Audioholics was targeting Axiom Audio in a malicious and purposeful manner and this is a pretty sad picture of the state of human beings.
There's just too many people out there who are like that...and the world goes round and round, war after war.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#372362 - 04/07/12 03:00 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon

JBall is one of the few people I have on ignore here. Audioholics is the site that brought me to Axiom, yet I'll never visit them again

What Chris said!

P.S. Haven’t read anything at Audioholics for a couple years, lost credibility when they started reviewing the products they were selling.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#372369 - 04/07/12 08:28 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4082
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
The only saving grace for Gene is there is no common similarities to their posting style whatsoever. So in fact it could be true what he says that JBall was an employee of his. Still very concerning that there is an "industry insider" connection.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#372370 - 04/07/12 08:37 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
Well that's easy enough to do. Look at Bbigwyres (however it's spelled).
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372374 - 04/07/12 08:56 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Seems they closed the thread at Audioholics concerning this.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#372375 - 04/07/12 09:00 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 811
Amie and I spoke with Gene yesterday and he assured us he would investigate and clean up his internal problems that lead to all these JBall posts over the past few years. We are very happy to see this sort of negativity coming to an end. Audio is a wonderful hobby that brings much enjoyment to the majority of people in it; that is very positive.

Gene has asked that we remove all the JBall posts from our boards which I have already asked Steve to do when he gets to the office. As the regulars on this forum know it is a rare occasion when we delete a post. But I think this is one of those rare occasions where it will be a very good thing.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#372377 - 04/07/12 09:34 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

That good to hear Ian but one thing that I find a bit off is; how can this be.........."the reality of this situation is I hired a close friend of the family about 4 years ago who is now a struggling freshman college student in need of cash."

And he buys a system that consists of...M60V3, VP150, QS8, EP600. That adds up to $3,758.20 USD. Struggling? Right!
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#372378 - 04/07/12 09:42 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Nah, the dude never bought anything. If you look at his post history, he switched between M80s and M60s (mysteriously) sometime about halfway through.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#372379 - 04/07/12 09:51 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
Just read through this thread after a couple of days away from the 'puter.... shocked

Unbelieveable.

Ian, I'm sorry you have to put up with this BS.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#372382 - 04/07/12 10:03 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Wid]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Struggling maybe because he was buying expensive audio gear whilst going to college and paying tuition fees....oh btw...he mentioned(jball that is)of being married over on blu ray because apparently he borrowed his wifes camera to take pictures of his new Ascends....but his profile there has being deleted and likewise here.

I am pretty dissapointed with what tranpired yesterday...I might just stick to owners forums like this and Ascend forum! smile

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#372387 - 04/07/12 10:19 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
I still think Jball needs to be the one who apologizes, not just Gene assuring he will address the issue. Until then I still think it is bogus.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372388 - 04/07/12 10:39 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
I have a pretty sensitive BS meter, and it's pegged. Gene owns this nonsense in its entirety, regardless to who Jball really is.
_________________________


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#372395 - 04/07/12 11:28 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: Holbrook, MA
I don't need an apology from JBall. Ian has led the way with forgiveness and conclusion and I intend to follow his lead.
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#372397 - 04/07/12 12:19 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Wid]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4849
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: Wid

And he buys a system that consists of...M60V3, VP150, QS8, EP600. That adds up to $3,758.20 USD. Struggling? Right!

Why are you choosing to believe his statements at all?
There's no fishyness when a web is weaved and none of it holds water.

Audioholics has admitted to the connection. Who cares what more lies beyond that?
Time to move on.
Nothing LEFT to see here.


_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#372401 - 04/07/12 01:52 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Chess, when did you become a moderator?
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#372402 - 04/07/12 01:54 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: CatBrat]
Rustolem Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/07/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Pineville, LA
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I'm at the "I don't care point" with these issues. I never even bother to read the messages (about this topic) on the other sites anymore.



Cat, i think that almost all of us who currently own the product have the same view.. However, potential new customers may be dissuaded from buying Axiom if they read the forums, and formulate an opinion off of what they read. In the long run axiom would not be able to gain market share, which would limit their future ability to increase capital and R&D money...


Perhaps, but, my reading the messages isn't going to help anyone.

You are 100% right about that.
I am looking for a new HT setup for my home and for the last 3 months have been looking at many brands.
I am not able to go out and "audition" and speakers so I am relying on other peoples experiences and so called "professional" reviews.
I had never heard of Axiom before, but when it was recommended to me I decided to check them out.
After going to the site and seeing the choices of speakers and that the fell in the $ of what I was wanting to spend, I then set off to the forums to find out opinions of those had or do own Axioms.
First stop as always was AVS, where I found alot of positive info until I ran into "gtpsuper24" who went out of his way to bash everything about Axiom.So from there I moved onto the Blu-ray.com forum and ran into the same guy again, and then finally to the Audioholics forum and there again with nothing but negativity.
And I have to admit reading all these negative comments from several different people it really made me remove Axiom from my list that I was considering for purchase, but now after all this new information coming out I will give them a second look.
Just my 2 cents that yes negative comments can definitely can hurt a company.

Thanks
Rustolem
_________________________
Mits WD-92840
Sony BDP-CX960
Yamaha RX-A3000
Axiomv3 M80's,VP180,QS8s
HSU VTF-3MK4 Sub
PanamaxM5400

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#372403 - 04/07/12 02:03 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: grunt]
Rustolem Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/07/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Pineville, LA
Originally Posted By: grunt
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon

JBall is one of the few people I have on ignore here. Audioholics is the site that brought me to Axiom, yet I'll never visit them again

What Chris said!

P.S. Haven’t read anything at Audioholics for a couple years, lost credibility when they started reviewing the products they were selling.
[b][/b]
Wow never really thought of that, you hit the nail on the head. I didn't realize until a few months ago that Audioholics had and actual online store. Which does make it kinda hard to give credence to a supposed impartial review from someone who is also selling the product.

Thanks for pointing that out!
Rustolem
_________________________
Mits WD-92840
Sony BDP-CX960
Yamaha RX-A3000
Axiomv3 M80's,VP180,QS8s
HSU VTF-3MK4 Sub
PanamaxM5400

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#372405 - 04/07/12 02:11 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Wid]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4849
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: Wid

Chess, when did you become a moderator?

Just calling it like i see it.
Rubberneckers move along.
The wreck is over.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#372407 - 04/07/12 02:14 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Rustolem, do you know you can order Axiom speakers, try them in your home for 30 days (that leaves you time to set them up properly for a good listen), and send them back if you don't like them.

when i got mine, M80's, i had a bad midrange driver; i wrote Axiom and a few days later i had a new driver in the mail.

from that moment on, i never looked back and after many months owning them, i'm still struck with wonder at how good those speakers are.

it's not everything that sounds good with Axiom speakers, in fact they're so good that they will show you instantly when a recording is not of top quality.

there's a good appreciation of Axiom speakers written by an audio engineer here: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95875&page=110
Post 2181.

Also: welcome to the Axiom forum. :-)

P.S.: you can also check if someone in your area would be willing to give you a demo of his Axiom speakers; have a look here:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=184230#Post184230


Edited by J. B. (04/07/12 02:24 PM)
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#372408 - 04/07/12 02:15 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Welcome Rust! Hang out a bit and enjoy the ride. If you decide to give Axiom a shot, I think you will like what you hear.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372411 - 04/07/12 02:28 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Rustolem]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Welcome aboard...but just for the record ntrain over at AVS is a troll and some of the members have pointed out.

Othwerwise...good luck in your speaker pursuit...I know you've received many matter of opinions over at Avs in the end it's your decision.... smile

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#372419 - 04/07/12 03:48 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Rustolem Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/07/12
Posts: 22
Loc: Pineville, LA
Thanks everyone.
Right now my choices have been narrowed down to either Klipsch system with the RF-7ii's for mains and the Axiom with the M80 for mains.
My room is 19x19 8'ceilings,the majority of my listening is movies, bluray or dvd, DirectvHD, Xbox gaming and music.
I am by no means an audiophile, but I don't it loud and with all the bass it can handle.
Was leaning towards the RF-7's for the 2 10" subs in each cabinet thinking they could handle all the base I need in 2 channel mode for music.
And wasn't sure if the M80 could match that.
_________________________
Mits WD-92840
Sony BDP-CX960
Yamaha RX-A3000
Axiomv3 M80's,VP180,QS8s
HSU VTF-3MK4 Sub
PanamaxM5400

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#372420 - 04/07/12 03:57 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: Holbrook, MA
I can't compare.... but the 80's have plenty of bass for music. It will be room and placement dependendent (as with all speakers).
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#372421 - 04/07/12 04:24 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
Originally Posted By: Ian
There was some talk after the store first opened of selling our products in the store, which would then at least change it to a quasi-dealer relationship. After much pondering on this we decided that it simply did not fit with our business model and in the summer of 2009 we cut our ties with Audioholics. This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it.

In regards to the first line of this paragraph, Gene is making a business proposal. And why not? He saw the proverbial Goose that lays the golden eggs in Axiom's products. With regards to the second line of the paragraph, this is not a good scenario for Axiom, they took a good hard look at the proposal and (respectfully I'm sure) said thanks but no thanks. I'm guessing here, but I could think of a couple of reasons not to enter into this business venture: One would be that Axiom would lose some of it's leveraging ability, with regards to the sales of it's product. Secondly, this appearance may not look very classy in their eyes. Since Audioholics reviewed their product in the past,and continuing to do so in the future, this would lead people to conclude a bias or tainted view of their reviewing process.

After turning down this offer made to them, Axiom had little choice but to sever all ties with Audioholics, because they would never again be able to receive a totally fair and unbiased review. Now, I'm not saying that Axiom's product reviews would've been trashed at every corner, some might come back reviewed as good. But maybe not quite as good as other products sitting in the Audioholic store.

Now to the third line, a threat made, and a threat enacted. Could what Gene had written been truthful? Absolutely. Could what Gene had written been an out&out lie? Absolutely, we will probably never know. The facts speaks for themselves. What motive or vendetta would this kid have against Ian? Who was the person making this threat? Who's computer was in question? Who, by these actions could have stood to benefit the most by them?

Where I was growing up people had a saying; If it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, then it must be a Duck.

Its good to see Gene's responding comments, and I hope through his investigation more will become known because the tide has now turned. Now it's not Ian trying to clear his and his company's name, but rather it's Gene.
_________________________
"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#372423 - 04/07/12 04:38 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Karma!
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#372432 - 04/07/12 06:06 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Rustolem]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: Rustolem
Thanks everyone.
Right now my choices have been narrowed down to either Klipsch system with the RF-7ii's for mains and the Axiom with the M80 for mains.
My room is 19x19 8'ceilings,the majority of my listening is movies, bluray or dvd, DirectvHD, Xbox gaming and music.
I am by no means an audiophile, but I don't it loud and with all the bass it can handle.
Was leaning towards the RF-7's for the 2 10" subs in each cabinet thinking they could handle all the base I need in 2 channel mode for music.
And wasn't sure if the M80 could match that.


When i was originally buying speakers i though of Klipsch. However, I found the horn tweeters that Klipsch used to be harsh and fatiguing..

But, that is just me...

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#372520 - 04/08/12 03:28 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: dakkon]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
It's good to see Axiom back on track and pursuing thoughts and sounds of happiness!
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372546 - 04/08/12 12:02 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Goodness gracious. Looks like Trade Libel. Very serious. It takes years to earn a good reputation. I came to Axiom because of a SoundStage! review. I waited more than a year during which I read other favorable reviews before buying my first pair of M3s. Axiom will never know how many people will retain a negative association with Axiom speakers because of a calculated multi site smear campaign even if they don't recall exactly why.

Sites which sell their reviews offer advertorials which are deceptive by definition.

Gene admitted that his employee, while acting within the scope of his employment posted malicious and libelous statements about Axiom products. Even accepting Gene's explanation, jball's slanders obviously grew like a poisonous mushroom from audioholic's company culture.

As we all know, mushrooms thrive in an environment of feces and darkness.

Good luck to Ian, Amie, and all our good friends at Axiom. Your success and integrity acted like a lightning rod for energy of the opposite nature.

Good luck and keep up the great work ... integrity, excellent audio at a reasonable price.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#372557 - 04/08/12 01:08 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: dakkon]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3171
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: dakkon


When i was originally buying speakers i though of Klipsch. However, I found the horn tweeters that Klipsch used to be harsh and fatiguing..

But, that is just me...


No, Dak, other brilliant minds have reached the same conclusion.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#372623 - 04/08/12 09:51 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Wow, I'm speechless.
_________________________
-David

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#372692 - 04/09/12 08:53 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: terzaghi]
audiosavant Offline
devotee

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 311
Loc: Worldwide
Just a sad attempt at tarnishing a quality brand by a disgruntled competitor.

Axiom owners don't need no drama, maaaaaaaaaan! We're too busy enjoying great sound to be hatin'.

Just saying... smile

Besides being one innovative dude, Ian is a true gentleman who is much more magnanimous than I would be if someone was underhandedly trying to do harm to my livelihood.

But I'm Sicilian and we tend to hold grudges...
_________________________
"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
---Frank Zappa


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#372694 - 04/09/12 09:42 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
inconceivable, is that iocane powder?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#372696 - 04/09/12 10:57 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SirQuack]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Hey Guy's without divulging any information here...I know Gene is truely sorry as he expressed in his prior discussion with Ian & Amie soon after this news became public.

I think it would be in the best intrest for both paries involved if this thread could be locked and further discussions cease.

Time has come to move on & "turn the page" to ....to quote my favorite Bob Seger song....what do you guys think?

Regards, Bill.... frown

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#372697 - 04/09/12 11:21 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: billy p]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: billy p

I think it would be in the best intrest for both paries involved if this thread could be locked and further discussions cease.


I don't really agree with this point. I think that the limitation to free exchange of ideas is almost always detrimental.

With that being said, i think that everyone on the Axiom forum has pretty much said their peace, but i personally see no need to lock this thread...

However, Ian and Co. will obviously have the last say on that idea.

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#372698 - 04/09/12 11:55 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Censorship and thread locking are pretty uncommon here. I certainly wouldn't presume to advise Ian, especially on this matter.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#372701 - 04/10/12 12:20 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: billy p]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Originally Posted By: billy p
Hey Guy's without divulging any information here...I know Gene is truely sorry as he expressed in his prior discussion with Ian & Amie soon after this news became public.

I think it would be in the best intrest for both paries involved if this thread could be locked and further discussions cease.

Time has come to move on & "turn the page" to ....to quote my favorite Bob Seger song....what do you guys think?




Regards, Bill.... frown





I see you have the Sierra Towers just like JBall......


Edited by SBrown (04/10/12 12:20 AM)
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372702 - 04/10/12 02:05 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SBrown]
Jasper Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 20
No need to implicate Ascend or Bill in this, but as I see it, this thread was doing just fine petering out on its own. I actually think Audioholics was awfully quick with closing its own thread. Gene can say he's sorry, but for this reader -- that would be too little, too late. I would still like to keep reading the site, some of the discussions can be enlightening, and I feel no need to argue the point, but any of Audioholics's "reviews" or anything Gene says, I'll let it be.

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#372711 - 04/10/12 09:25 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Jasper]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
I understand and wanna apoligize for making this suggestion.

Ps...Dear...SBrown...I've altered my sig to reflect NO association whatsoever with that damn charater... mad

Okay...I'll be moving on...thanks..

Bill

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#372714 - 04/10/12 10:38 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: billy p]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I find Gene's explanation credible. That doesn't mean it's necessarily true, but it seems that Ian, et al, have accepted Gene's explanation and are moving on. That's good enough for me. I sincerely hope they will be able to repair their relationship. Peace to all. Life is too short to bear anger and animosity for any length of time. Wish I'd learned that a lot sooner. frown
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#372716 - 04/10/12 10:49 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
(Jack made me his arch-nemesis many years ago)

::Raises fist in air:: Jaaaaaaack!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372718 - 04/10/12 10:57 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: billy p]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: billy p
Hey Guy's without divulging any information here...I know Gene is truly sorry

Just curious - what does that mean? What do you know?
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372725 - 04/10/12 11:37 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
(Jack made me his arch-nemesis many years ago)

::Raises fist in air:: Jaaaaaaack!


Originally Posted By: Ajax
Life is too short to bear anger and animosity for any length of time.
For you, I'll make an exception.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#372728 - 04/10/12 11:41 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
Thanks! I'm exceptional, everyone! grin
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372731 - 04/10/12 12:30 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia


I'd better put a couple of smiley faces on here so that it's clear that ... I KEED, I KEED!!!! grin wink
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372770 - 04/10/12 05:48 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SBrown]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7229
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Originally Posted By: billy p
Hey Guy's without divulging any information here...I know Gene is truely sorry as he expressed in his prior discussion with Ian & Amie soon after this news became public.

I think it would be in the best intrest for both paries involved if this thread could be locked and further discussions cease.

Time has come to move on & "turn the page" to ....to quote my favorite Bob Seger song....what do you guys think?




Regards, Bill.... frown





I see you have the Sierra Towers just like JBall......


That wasn't nice. frown You may not agree with Bill, but there is no need to imply he is remotely like jball.

Bill. Axiom has taken a lot of negative shit on Audioholics over the last couple of years. Given that and the events of the last few weeks you should expect just a little push back.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372781 - 04/10/12 06:24 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: fredk]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
I was just making a point, you don't have to get your panties in a knot. Just seems he knows a little more than what he is saying and sticking up for Gene a little much.

Anyways flame away, I am done with this thread. frown
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372782 - 04/10/12 06:26 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SBrown]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7229
Loc: Canada
I lost my panties in the divorce. I can't get them in a knot any more.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372784 - 04/10/12 06:30 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: fredk]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Originally Posted By: billy p
Hey Guy's without divulging any information here...I know Gene is truely sorry as he expressed in his prior discussion with Ian & Amie soon after this news became public.

I think it would be in the best intrest for both paries involved if this thread could be locked and further discussions cease.

Time has come to move on & "turn the page" to ....to quote my favorite Bob Seger song....what do you guys think?




Regards, Bill.... frown





I see you have the Sierra Towers just like JBall......


That wasn't nice. frown You may not agree with Bill, but there is no need to imply he is remotely like jball.

Bill. Axiom has taken a lot of negative shit on Audioholics over the last couple of years. Given that and the events of the last few weeks you should expect just a little push back.


Thanks Fred` imho that post was outta line. As for my request regarding this particular thread it would have being nice since Ian mentioned audio is a wonderful hobby that should brinhg enjoyment to the majority who participate and thus all negative comments shall be removed because of this umcommom occurance of one guys actions.

I also know too well about all the negative stuff being reported on other forums of which could be audioholics related. I know this forum is lighly moderated and usually very tolerent but at some point somethings gotta give because at the end of the day we're ll fathers,son mothers...somebodys loved one am quite frankly I am getting tird of this negetive banter all over these audio forums.

Like Jack said above life's too short...it took me 40+ yrs to figure it out...I guess I'm getting old too frown


Edited by billy p (04/10/12 06:33 PM)

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#372796 - 04/10/12 07:18 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: billy p]
autoboy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Palo Alto, California
I just want to say thanks to Axiom for being honest with us about the situation, and being very professional in their acceptance of Gene's apology.

I have been extremely happy with my Axiom speakers. They've ruined me for anything else. They are great bang for the buck speakers and I'll continue to recommend them to my friends and family.

I'm especially impressed with all the variations of speakers they are able to come up with. I'm installing their in-cabinet speakers in the next month or so.

Audioholics is where I first heard of Axiom so I have to thank them for their recommendation. I haven't visited the site much since they launched their store. I found it to be a conflict of interest, still, best of luck to both Axiom and Audioholics and I hope we can get past this and just waste our time listening to music and movies.

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#372799 - 04/10/12 07:35 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
autoboy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Palo Alto, California
Ok, so I take it back about the respect for Audioholics. I actually went in and looked at some of Gene's recent posts about Axiom and it is clear to me from the tone of his writing that he is EXTREMELY sour on Axiom. His whole post about the new 1100 speakers oozes apathy. It is my opinion that he is JBALL or that he at least approved of the Axiom hate campaign.

"Apparently they now feel that beyond $1400/pair you actually can make a better sounding speaker rather than just adding to cosmetics and appeal."

It looks like I'll need to do some damage control by posting more of my positive experiences.

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#372859 - 04/11/12 09:32 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
In regards to the 'censorship' and 'rubbernecking' perspective of this miserable situation, I have to disagree with the view of some. Whether or not the bashing was an intentionally orchestrated "plan" of sorts, or if it was all just innocent mischief, those who are responsible need to be held accountable. It is too often that people use the illusion of Internet anonymity to behave like jackasses and say whatever the hell they want without being taken to task for what they say. Now that there has been somewhat of a 'revealing' of evidence that illuminates a culprit, despite direct or indirect association, there should be some form of penance. To simply bury this thread, or censor it, or encourage others to just let it die, will do nothing more than set the stage for a repeat offence of the same kind. I can say with absolute confidence, that if this were to be buried, the same jackasses that have nothing better to do with their time than spread hate and discontent, will slither out of their holes and start playing their games as soon as dust settles.
_________________________


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#372861 - 04/11/12 09:40 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: michael_d]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
This is Bill from Ascends forum:

billy p's Avatar
billy p billy p is offline
Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Markham, Onatrio
Posts: 55
Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!
Hey...JBALL...welcome to the darkside... . I had another Axiom member over the other day to audition the Towers he immediately heard the difference and complemented how good the Towers sounded...compared to his grand master set up which uses the m22's as mains. Sure its not a fair comparison but the difference was not even "remotely close" his words..

We really gotta lay off those guys over there...

Regards, Bill...
Reply With Quote


This is why I posted what I did.So....no,I don't feel bad.
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372862 - 04/11/12 09:46 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: michael_d]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
Well said, Michael.
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#372863 - 04/11/12 09:52 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
another point of view is that capital punishment does not diminish the number of murders.
_________________________
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or: Axiom Gallery

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#372864 - 04/11/12 10:04 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: J. B.]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: J. B.
another point of view is that capital punishment does not diminish the number of murders.

Another point of view taken to an extreme, I guess. You may be forgetting that when there's talk of lynch mobs around here (wait, when was that?!), it's figurative. Despite his love of firearms and insanely fast cars, I'm sure you'd agree that michaeld is not advocating capital punishment for JBall and billyp. So, I'm not sure how your post is appropriate or relevant. Are you saying to ignore it and hope and wish that the mean people go away or just get nicer?
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372867 - 04/11/12 10:21 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
i was just saying there is another way of seeing it; the "extreme" was only to illustrate the idea in a simple manner.

of course it has nothing to do directly (literally) with what we're talking about, just food for thought in a general way.

i thought that the idea would never have been taken at face value.

in clear language, jumping hard on one person will not prevent others from doing the same thing.
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or: Axiom Gallery

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#372871 - 04/11/12 10:39 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: J. B.]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: J. B.
jumping hard on one person will not prevent others from doing the same thing.

Of course it won't in any absolute sense. Some people will be jerks no matter what. However, you are losing the bigger picture, because for many people, seeing the consequences will affect how they choose to act in the future. I agree with Michael's point that significant negative consequences are helpful in cases like this to discourage (cf. eliminate) unwanted behavior.

Basic psychology.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372872 - 04/11/12 10:41 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: medic8r]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3171
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
OK, Dad, I get it! Now can I have the money?
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#372873 - 04/11/12 10:42 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
No. You started a Political Thread.

You're grounded.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372877 - 04/11/12 10:52 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
No. You started a Political Thread.

You're grounded.

Quick, throw the switch!
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#372879 - 04/11/12 11:19 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: Holbrook, MA
significant negative consequences

I think the internet is fairly unique in that significant negative consequences just stir up the trolls more and more. The persons that the SNCs might be beneficial too don't really post much if at all.
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#372880 - 04/11/12 11:26 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Good point, Lampy. The personality traits of your garden variety troll are such that they're extremely resistant to even the most constructive criticism. They're too likely to double down on the antagonism until they run out of fuel somehow.

Insecure narcissism + projective paranoia + lack of metacognition = recipe for disaster.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372882 - 04/11/12 11:32 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: medic8r]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3171
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: medic8r
Insecure narcissism + projective paranoia + lack of metacognition = recipe for disaster.


Labels are of no use to us unless attached to photos, or, at the very least, name tags.

(I coulda said "toe tags," but I didn't.)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#372892 - 04/11/12 12:29 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Just to be clear, I did not, nor am I suggesting that a lynch mob or posse be formed to march on the alleged perpetrator(s) or his/her fan club. I am also not suggesting that everyone jump in and start a feeding frenzy or fill pages with disrespectful or hurtful posts/comments. Tact and diplomacy will go further than snide remarks, but that does not include ignoring the situation with the hope that it go away - and stay away on its own.
_________________________


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#372894 - 04/11/12 12:34 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
i think that people who create those disruptions most of the time are after attention from others, for whatever reasons.

the best remedy of all is by not answering their posts. they will then tire fast and go somewhere else.
on our side, we must report their posts and have them banned.

The End - fini.
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or: Axiom Gallery

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#372899 - 04/11/12 12:50 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: michael_d]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: michael_d
Just to be clear, I did not, nor am I suggesting that a lynch mob or posse be formed to march on the alleged perpetrator(s) or his/her fan club.

Don't worry. I don't think anyone read that into your post. I was just being sarcastic with J.B. In fact, I think it was one of Sean's monkeys that I pulled out of ... the air.

Quote:
Tact and diplomacy will go further than snide remarks, but that does not include ignoring the situation with the hope that it go away - and stay away on its own.

Agreed. This spectacle was not your average everyday troll being a minor irritant. It was, apparently, a calculated effort to bring down a company, and I think it's unwise to just let it slide.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372902 - 04/11/12 01:06 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Agreed. I typically ignore trolls and avoid drama. But this was a unique, and very bizarre situation that I just couldn't ignore. Well I've procrastinated long enough. Time to put the vette back together, or I should say "attempt" to put it back together.
_________________________


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#372903 - 04/11/12 01:14 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: medic8r]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
Originally Posted By: medic8r
It was, apparently, a calculated effort to bring down a company, and I think it's unwise to just let it slide.

Exactly why we should let cousin Vito take care of this.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#372904 - 04/11/12 01:26 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
Vinny was busy.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#372905 - 04/11/12 01:29 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Prob'ly had somethin' ta do wit' da yout's.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#372906 - 04/11/12 01:32 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
Now I want a can of Tuna.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372912 - 04/11/12 02:35 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Wow...I own about 1200.00 worth of Axiom speakers and most recently I directly compared them in home vs. 2 other brands and I preferred the Ascends. Now people are checking my posting history and cherry picking things I've said..I could go back and show you guys dozens of postive posts I've made with respect to owning Axiom...but what would be the point...unless I am 110% pro Axiom, I am traitor....nice... smirk

Btw...SBrown since we're on the subject you made a claim about hearing a difference using wires/cables...only a guess on my part but you dropped the subject rather quickly because you didn't want someone taking you to task, or even turning on you as some have done here?

Just wanna take the time & thank those of you who answered PM and offred advice here in the past...I appreicate it but for now....I need a break form to much Forum activity....it would seem.... frown




Edited by billy p (04/11/12 03:06 PM)

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#372913 - 04/11/12 02:41 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1063
billy:

Should that not be 'traitor'?

TAM

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#372915 - 04/11/12 02:44 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: exlabdriver]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Yeah...sorry...jsut getting ready to do my hockey playoff pool....not good at mulit tasking and thinking to far ahead.

"Traitor"

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#372916 - 04/11/12 02:44 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
<insert meaningless post here to document consumption of the foregoing and lack of meaningful reply>

Otherwise, I get a rash.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#372918 - 04/11/12 03:05 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: tomtuttle]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Yes Bill, I still believe in the wire thing. If you don't,you don't..but I do and can prove it if you want to come over. But that is another subject, isn't it.
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372936 - 04/11/12 04:34 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SBrown]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
If you can prove that cables make a difference, then there's money for you. Contact the James Randi Educational Foundation.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#372940 - 04/11/12 04:44 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: pmbuko]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Let's not start this again, this is why I let it go in the first place. I hear what I hear, if you don't believe me...fine.
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#372943 - 04/11/12 04:57 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: SBrown]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I believe you hear what you hear. What else could you be hearing? Certainly not what I'm hearing. smile
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#372955 - 04/11/12 05:51 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Wait, so what do i do with these solid gold speaker cables i just bought from the back of the van??!?!?!?!? they were a really good deal....

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#372958 - 04/11/12 06:00 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: dakkon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7229
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Wait, so what do i do with these solid gold speaker cables i just bought from the back of the van??!?!?!?!? they were a really good deal....

Melt them down, mint them into magical golden beans and look for a guy with a cow.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#372961 - 04/11/12 06:24 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: fredk]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Seriously guys, I never chime in on this stuff, but SBrown believes what he believes and does not push the agenda. He's happy with his cables, we don't have to be. Peace and audio bliss to all, however you get there - tubes and gold cables or solid state and coat hangers, who cares? We all share our experiences and someone else may or may not learn from them or believe them. I believe in vertical center channels and tell people about them as I don't think most people in the market consider it. I don't push it, just inform based on my experiences.

OK, returning to my normal state of zen now.


Edited by cb919 (04/11/12 06:27 PM)
Edit Reason: vertically challenged
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#372969 - 04/11/12 07:51 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
+1
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#372970 - 04/11/12 08:03 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: billy p]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: billy p
Wow...I own about 1200.00 worth of Axiom speakers and most recently I directly compared them in home vs. 2 other brands and I preferred the Ascends. Now people are checking my posting history and cherry picking things I've said..I could go back and show you guys dozens of postive posts I've made with respect to owning Axiom...but what would be the point...unless I am 110% pro Axiom, I am traitor....nice... smirk

Btw...SBrown since we're on the subject you made a claim about hearing a difference using wires/cables...only a guess on my part but you dropped the subject rather quickly because you didn't want someone taking you to task, or even turning on you as some have done here?

Just wanna take the time & thank those of you who answered PM and offred advice here in the past...I appreicate it but for now....I need a break form to much Forum activity....it would seem.... frown



Billy p although I haven’t read other forums for quite some time I’ve never previously seen you write anything that would indicate you weren’t completely and totally fair in regards to your posting about Axiom. I too own a few Axioms (see sig) and have often been chastised in this forum for making honest comments that were not in line with a “fanboy” mentality, and in one major case feel quite vindicated. However, I’ve found that most forum member here can accept honest criticism. Please continue to post as diversity in ideas is healthy groupthink is not.

Besides we have this guy Sean who’s posting about how great his new, non-Axiom, speakers are and no one is taking him to task so I will. Sean, your taste in speakers is totally . . . cool since I’ve heard what you already own and respect your honest feedback about my very different sounding system.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#372974 - 04/11/12 08:27 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: grunt]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
My turn to +1. Well said Dean.
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#372976 - 04/11/12 08:33 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: grunt]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7413
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: grunt

Besides we have this guy Sean who’s posting about how great his new, non-Axiom, speakers are and no one is taking him to task so I will. Sean, your taste in speakers is totally . . . cool since I’ve heard what you already own and respect your honest feedback about my very different sounding system.


Likewise, Dean.

And, just for the record, I think Bob has been posting more about my new speakers than me. laugh
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#372984 - 04/11/12 08:56 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: St_PatGuy]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7229
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
And, just for the record, I think Bob has been posting more about my new speakers than me. laugh

Yeah, but thats because he's a shit disturber. He is probably all sulky because we've been trashing your hatrack and not you. wink

It's nice to see you weigh in on this subject Dean. I agree with you.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#373004 - 04/11/12 11:10 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: fredk]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3171
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
And, just for the record, I think Bob has been posting more about my new speakers than me. laugh

Yeah, but thats because he's a shit disturber. He is probably all sulky because we've been trashing your hatrack and not you. wink

It's nice to see you weigh in on this subject Dean. I agree with you.


A recent tally revealed that there are currently 80 posts on the 8 pages of your New Speaker thread, you know, over there, on that other thread? 40 of them are by the forum (presumptive)collective; 10 are by me. The rest? All yours, Seany.

Please! If you were southern, you'd have been flapping a fan in front of your face to hide your feigned embarrasment. Ha, that's 8 pages worth o' flappin, ain't it? "I do declare! All these gentlemen callers asking after my little Salks; those pretty little sticks o' wood over there?! Goodness me!"

FRED: lol!


Edited by BobKay (04/11/12 11:12 PM)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#373005 - 04/11/12 11:25 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I'd like to state for the record that I like the hat rack and generally find them useful.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#373013 - 04/12/12 12:41 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ken.C]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7413
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I'd like to state for the record that I like the hat rack and generally find them useful.


See that, Bob?

Ha! Ken gets a mint julep from me.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#373014 - 04/12/12 12:43 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: fredk]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana

Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
And, just for the record, I think Bob has been posting more about my new speakers than me. laugh

Yeah, but thats because he's a shit disturber. He is probably all sulky because we've been trashing your hatrack and not you. wink

It's nice to see you weigh in on this subject Dean. I agree with you.



No, he’s a witch, burn him!

Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I'd like to state for the record that I like the hat rack and generally find them useful.


Nominated as second best post of the thread next to Ian’s opener. wink
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#373015 - 04/12/12 12:46 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: cb919

I believe in vertical center channels and tell people about them as I don't think most people in the market consider it.


+1 back at you!
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#373074 - 04/12/12 11:11 AM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ken.C]
avjunkee Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 110
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I'd like to state for the record that I like the hat rack and generally find them useful.



Is it any wonder? Look at the size of your hat grin .
_________________________
M80s, VP180, QS8s, EP800 v3

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#373219 - 04/13/12 12:51 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1063
Considering the angst from a week ago on this & the other forums, it is quite refreshing to see that everyone seems to have mellowed out - for the moment.

Mature, helpful & reasonable discussions have broken out everywhere - nice!

My blood pressure is down as well, ha!

TAM

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#373220 - 04/13/12 12:56 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
We just all have ADD here and can't help but hijack threads into different directions...
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#373221 - 04/13/12 12:58 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Ian]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
Speaking of ADD.............
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#373303 - 04/13/12 10:31 PM Re: Pursuing the Truth In Audio You Say? [Re: Murph]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1215
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Originally Posted By: Murph
Speaking of ADD.............


ADHD here,addicted to high definition
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DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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