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#376222 - 05/15/12 02:24 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6390
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Yeah, Peter, you'd have thought a person of 2x6's unimpaired intellect would have caught that.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#376224 - 05/15/12 02:54 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
The many States of the United States have laws regarding marriage. There is no Federal law of marriage. There have been racist laws in the past which made unlawful marriage between men and women of different races. These anachronistic, racist laws were properly abolished by the United States Supreme Court holding in Loving v. Virginia. It is now lawful in every state for a man and woman of any race to marry.

This holding honors the institution of marriage and our notion that no civil liberty should be abridged by reason of race or religion.

The fundamental institution of marriage, setting aside race or religious based aberrations which burdened the institution, is not a property interest, not bondage, nor slavery, nor whatever our communist, anarchist, or severely confused nut job friends would have you believe. Marriage is the fundamental institution of our society.

I believe it should be reserved for relations between a man and a woman. I do not believe it should be expanded to include relations between men and multiple wives, or wives and multiple husbands, or between men and men, or women and women, or between any human gender and any other species of animal.

Now, where you draw the line may differ from where I draw the line. But this is my opinion. It is not a fringe opinion and it is not an opinion from which any rational person could infer that I am a Nazi, or favor slavery, or cruelty to animals.

However, morons might draw such unfounded inferences from a perfectly wholesome opinion.

Don't let me slow you down from your self righteous though thoroughly confused tirades.






_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#376226 - 05/15/12 03:12 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: 2x6spds]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Well, I don't know what it is but it's not marriage.

The central institution of human society from literally time immemorial is the heterosexual family unit. It is the institution upon which all other institutions stand.

In all of human history, no society has ever condoned homosexual marriage. Marriage is a creature of the state, rooted in culture. I can understand why homosexual couples would want all of the economic and trust benefits of marriage. But why marriage?

Why adoption? Why the propagation of the homosexual lifestyle in everything from popular culture to grade school text books?

Personally, I don't think this is a good thing for civilization because it undermines the central institution of our culture.

Just my opinion.



When I still see this kind of attitude, I really have to wonder. An almost 50% divorce rate amongst "heterosexual" couples in the U.S., wife abuse, child abuse(all increasing) and billions of dollars in defaulted, unpaid alimony and child care payments? Forgive me, but when it comes to "undermining" the so-called central institution of our culture, given the above, a very small percentage of same-sex couples wanting to marry is the least of our problems. Add to that that pretty well all of the industrialized world including mine(Canada), this is essentially a non-issue and we haven't "gone to hell in a hand basket".

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#376227 - 05/15/12 03:26 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Yes, wonder is good.

Just because the institution is under stress doesn't mean it should be kicked down the stairs.

I don't think the US divorce rate has hit 50%, closer to 33%, is my understanding. Child abuse is an indictment of the institution? That's a head scratcher.

But then again, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument. Please, carry on!

Maybe cam can quote some lengthy screed from some socialist manifesto to spice up this thread.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#376231 - 05/15/12 04:16 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: 2x6spds]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Maybe cam can quote some lengthy screed from some socialist manifesto to spice up this thread.

You've already thrown the crushed red pepper flakes into a hot pan with your own responses. Cam's "spice" would be lost in the painful, tear-inducing cloud already present.

Your opinions is definitely not a fringe one, but the number of people who hold it is diminishing. I honestly believe that in my lifetime, we'll look back on this issue with shame that we hadn't done away with the prejudice sooner.

As the overturning of California's Prop 8 shined a light on, there's no demonstrably rational or logical basis for preventing two consenting adults of the same sex from entering into a legally-recognized, committed relationship that enjoys all the same benefits same benefits as an opposite-sex couple enjoys. This pretty much sums up why I am annoyed by anyone who tried to defend an opinion like yours.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#376232 - 05/15/12 04:41 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
See, its the content of my opinion that you object to and compare to Red Pepper flakes in the pan ... I thought I expressed myself clearly and without animus. Someone calls me a liar, I object. Someone compares my opinion to one who supports slavery, national socialism, etc., I object. I haven't called anyone names, though I have characterized certain arguments as moronic ... because, you know, they are ...


As to the state sanctioning homosexual relations, that's fine with me (excepting adoption). Just don't call it marriage. As to your shame, bear it with dignity.

Your annoyance is because you have a totalitarian mind-set, seeped in political correctness and cannot really tolerate dissenting opinions. Examine your annoyance!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#376233 - 05/15/12 04:54 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: 2x6spds]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10886
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Examine your annoyance!


OK. What's your schedule look like?
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#376234 - 05/15/12 05:01 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: 2x6spds]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Well, I don't know what it is but it's not marriage.

The central institution of human society from literally time immemorial is the heterosexual family unit. It is the institution upon which all other institutions stand.

In all of human history, no society has ever condoned homosexual marriage. Marriage is a creature of the state, rooted in culture. I can understand why homosexual couples would want all of the economic and trust benefits of marriage. But why marriage?

Why adoption? Why the propagation of the homosexual lifestyle in everything from popular culture to grade school text books?

Personally, I don't think this is a good thing for civilization because it undermines the central institution of our culture.

Just my opinion.


WHY homosexual marriage and adoption?
simply because it's in human nature, it's natural.
Think about this a little: no human has ever done anything that's not human.
People sometime say: what he/she did is unhuman.
in reality, it's as human as anything else humans do, or can do.

you reject some forms of discrimination while you approve others, like when you wrote: "This holding honors the institution of marriage and our notion that no civil liberty should be abridged by reason of race or religion".
you forgot that civil liberty should include homosexual marriage and adoption. if it's not included, where is the civil liberty?


Edited by J. B. (05/15/12 05:34 PM)
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#376235 - 05/15/12 05:11 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: 2x6spds]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
As to the state sanctioning homosexual relations, that's fine with me (excepting adoption). Just don't call it marriage.

Your adoption exception is par for the course, as would be its tenuously justifiable defense should you choose to share it.

Any idiot can become a parent. It takes an intentional act of altruism to be an adoptive parent. To withhold from able and willing gay couples the same rights as heterosexual parents enjoy is morally suspect.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#376241 - 05/15/12 05:52 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I'll be, 2x6 getting hammered for having his own opinion? I think it's a damn shame and myself think those who have favored gay marriage in this thread seem less tolerant of opposing views than what 2x6 has stated, very well imo.

Now, I can't say I agree with his opinion but I will respect it. If a gay couple wants to be involved in the institution of marriage I say let them do as they wish. As all the people on here that are married know there's nothing easy about keeping a marriage going long term. Sure, there are a lot of great times but it sure as hell isn't a ride in the park 100% of the time.

I say go for it, let gays have the right afforded to them as is any other loving couple. It's my opinion that one does't choose to be gay; they are born as such. To punish a person for how they were born is beyond my comprehension. I'm sure most on this site wouldn't figure for me to have this view but it what I believe.

I also respect 2x6s opinion on gays not being able to adopt. Once again, I disagree but he certainly is entitled to his view without condemnation.


_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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