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#381285 - 08/10/12 02:06 AM LFR1100/ADA
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I received my Axiom ADA1000-4 amplifier today, so I was eager to use the LFR1100s in the way they were meant to be used, but I'm running into difficulty, which seems to be my thing. At first I hooked everything up how it was supposed to be hooked up with the DSP in the chain. Front right and left signals from the receiver to the DSP inputs, front and rear outputs for both left and right channels going to inputs on the amplifier, corresponding power outputs going to the appropriate terminals on the speakers themselves. I'm unable to get any sound whatsoever. I then hooked up my MP3 player directly to the amp itself, trying to at least get signal to the front drivers of the LFRs. Nothing. I'll admit that the first time I tried, I forgot to push the power button on the front of the amp, but I figured that one out, and I'm still getting zero sound, DSP or no DSP. At this point, I suppose I need to hook up the Emotiva again and see if I can get it to run at least the front drivers on the LFRs.

Oh, I also tried the front left and right outputs from the receiver directly to the amp with no sound. So after trying both the MP3 player directly to the amp as well as the receiver directly to the amp, it's looking like the amp isn't functioning, right? Am I missing anything?
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#381286 - 08/10/12 02:29 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
All right, all four outputs of the DSP work. I hooked up the two fronts to the Emotiva first, and they worked, and then I hooked up the two rears, and the both worked. So it really does seem to be the ADA1000-4 that's the issue, which surprises me. I'm sure it was tested plenty before being shipped, so I have to wonder why I'm not able to get any sound out of it.
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#381287 - 08/10/12 04:21 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Charles, I've pondered this for a few minutes and I certainly can't think of anything that you've missed. You checked the 1000-4 with two different voltage sources and got no response. Does the 1000-4 have some sort of power-on light? Contact Axiom, of course, to see if there's something weird about operating it that we're not aware of.

Sure, until you get the new amp problem fixed you can use the Emotiva for just the front drivers, but I'm still of the view that you should try the receiver again as we discussed before to get full operation of the LFR1100s.
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#381288 - 08/10/12 04:49 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: JohnK]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Yes, there's a blue light on the front that comes on when it's powered up. There are also red lights in the case that turn blue. I have an email in to Brent, so we'll see what happens.
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#381289 - 08/10/12 06:08 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Charles, did you ever happen to make Googley eyes (lower case g) at the sister of your UPS driver?

(Sorry about your trouble. I know you've been really patiently waiting)

_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#381298 - 08/10/12 07:53 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4074
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: CV
I received my Axiom ADA1000-4 amplifier today, so I was eager to use the LFR1100s in the way they were meant to be used, but I'm running into difficulty, which seems to be my thing. At first I hooked everything up how it was supposed to be hooked up with the DSP in the chain. Front right and left signals from the receiver to the DSP inputs, front and rear outputs for both left and right channels going to inputs on the amplifier, corresponding power outputs going to the appropriate terminals on the speakers themselves. I'm unable to get any sound whatsoever. I then hooked up my MP3 player directly to the amp itself, trying to at least get signal to the front drivers of the LFRs. Nothing. I'll admit that the first time I tried, I forgot to push the power button on the front of the amp, but I figured that one out, and I'm still getting zero sound, DSP or no DSP. At this point, I suppose I need to hook up the Emotiva again and see if I can get it to run at least the front drivers on the LFRs.

Oh, I also tried the front left and right outputs from the receiver directly to the amp with no sound. So after trying both the MP3 player directly to the amp as well as the receiver directly to the amp, it's looking like the amp isn't functioning, right? Am I missing anything?


As a regular forum member you probably spend the most money on Axiom products. You also are up there with experiencing the most problems.

As Biggie once said Mo Money, Mo Problems.
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#381299 - 08/10/12 08:09 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6768
Loc: PEI, Canada
On the plus side, he should also get Mo Support. No need to wait for an email response, give them a call. Hopefully it will be something easily resolved without further delay.
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#381301 - 08/10/12 09:23 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 171
This is incredibly bizarre CV! Your ADA1000 went through a full regimen of line testing, including a full suite of testing by me in the lab. I think you have all of the steps correct, but please check all of the following:

1. Make all input and output connections.
2. Turn on the rear panel switch.
3. Note that there should be red lights visible inside the amp.
4. Press the front panel button.
5. Note that the interior lights should turn blue, the front panel led should light up blue, and you should hear the click of relays.

If the relays are not clicking, then something has happened in shipping to the protection circuit connections. I'm assuming that you are unable to get sound from any of the 4 channels? Also, are you using the trigger connection? If you are, please disconnect it and see if the amp functions.

I'm sorry that your first experience with the amp has been a let down. Believe me, I take this even more seriously as I know your amp was working perfectly before it left the factory. frown

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#381309 - 08/10/12 11:30 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Oh no!! I'm so sorry to hear it! Noreen and Debbie and I were talking at dinner last night about how excited we were for your feedback on the new amps. So sorry - we're all so disappointed!
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Axiom Audio

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#381310 - 08/10/12 12:23 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
I have gotten to the point that i make sure i am here when Fedex shows up and either watch, or help unload.. They have broken a few things on me, the last one was damaged right at the curb infront of the house.

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#381312 - 08/10/12 12:58 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: Amie]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: Amie
Noreen and Debbie and I...we're all so disappointed!

Charles disappointing women, again. laugh

But yeah, this sucks. frown
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Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
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#381314 - 08/10/12 01:08 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Chris, that got a genuine out-loud laugh!
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#381315 - 08/10/12 02:46 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: Andrew]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Andrew
This is incredibly bizarre CV! Your ADA1000 went through a full regimen of line testing, including a full suite of testing by me in the lab. I think you have all of the steps correct, but please check all of the following:

1. Make all input and output connections.
2. Turn on the rear panel switch.
3. Note that there should be red lights visible inside the amp.
4. Press the front panel button.
5. Note that the interior lights should turn blue, the front panel led should light up blue, and you should hear the click of relays.

If the relays are not clicking, then something has happened in shipping to the protection circuit connections. I'm assuming that you are unable to get sound from any of the 4 channels? Also, are you using the trigger connection? If you are, please disconnect it and see if the amp functions.

I'm sorry that your first experience with the amp has been a let down. Believe me, I take this even more seriously as I know your amp was working perfectly before it left the factory. frown


First off, I appreciate you, Amie, and Ian coming out in force. I'm sure this is exactly what you wouldn't want to happen when you're first getting a new product into customers' hands.

Yes on the red lights, and yes on them turning blue, as well as the blue light on the front coming on when I press the front panel button. I'm hearing a click. Should it be a singular click? With other amps, it seems like it's been more than just one click. Anyway, I was hoping that it would magically start working today after being off, disconnected, then reconnected, but no such luck.

I wasn't using the trigger yet, since I was wanting to hear it as soon as possible, and that would have probably taken 15 seconds longer. Ha ha.

Oh, and you're correct, I'm not able to get sound from ANY of the channels.

I'm going to take some pictures later to send to Ian, as he's hoping to spot the culprit.
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#381316 - 08/10/12 02:47 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: ClubNeon]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
Charles disappointing women, again. laugh


If only it was an olympic event?
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#381331 - 08/11/12 01:43 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I took the pictures for Ian, but I figured some of you would want to see more pictures of the insides:

ADA1000-4 #1
ADA1000-4 #2
ADA1000-4 #3
ADA1000-4 #4
ADA1000-4 #5
ADA1000-4 #6
ADA1000-4 #7
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#381335 - 08/11/12 08:19 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 171
Aha! It looks like one of the main power supply connectors has come loose in shipping. It's possible that it was not fully seated and locked during assembly. It's a white plug with blue/black/red wires near the large, black capacitors. Simply plug this in to the only available connection on the power supply board (you can see an identical red/black/blue wire that is plugged into the power supply from one of the amplifier modules) and you should be good to go. The white connector is keyed so that it will only plug in in one direction and will make a click when it's locked. I'm positive that the amp will be fully functioning once that plug is connected. smile

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#381336 - 08/11/12 08:24 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Charles,

I was looking at photo #1, the grey connector to the amp board on the left as viewed from the photo looks like it is bent slightly. the same connector on the amp board on the right is perfectly perpendicular to the board... Maybe this could be part of the issue? If this is the case, it might be worth some close up's of that particular connection. Andrew or Ian would know much more about what that connection does.. Also, i would think that the other channel would work even if this wire is not making a good connection.


Also, an obvious question, did you verify that all of the other wiring connections within the amp were still securely connected? If the box had a sharp impact, one of those connections could have come loose, again unlikely but possible....


Also, is the ground nut still tight? I would assume that this is the least likely problem, as the amp would be erratic with a loose ground nut, and yours is completely dead. However, this is something that can be easily checked with the top lid off.


I would think this is a connection issue, as the likely hood of both amp channels failing in transit is almost nill, also we know the power supply is good because you get LED power indicators on all of the boards....


I hope this helps.. Good luck man, hopefully it is like i hypothesised and it's just a loose connection that is a 2 second fix.

P.S. Andrew noted the problem before i could even finish my post..... do what he said smile


Edited by dakkon (08/11/12 08:31 AM)

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#381337 - 08/11/12 10:02 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Unplug it first! smile
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#381338 - 08/11/12 10:27 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Charles, hurry up already!!
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#381339 - 08/11/12 10:52 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Ha ha. Success! Thanks, Andrew. And Sean, you really motivated me.

I saw that connector, but I couldn't see where it was supposed to plug in, since it was obscured under the other one. There was barely enough cable for that one to reach, so that's probably why it didn't end up locked in place.

Really happy now. I'll do some listening, but then I have to get ready to go see The Bourne Legacy with my friend. Obligations.
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#381340 - 08/11/12 11:38 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Great news!

Seems like you need to finish your home theater so you can just say, "let's wait for that to come to video, and we'll watch it here."
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#381341 - 08/11/12 11:58 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: ClubNeon]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I'll still be impatient for some movies, but yeah, the local theaters aren't going to be competing with my sound system.

My first impressions of the LFR1100s now that I'm running them correctly are that yes, the rear-firing drivers do add a bit to the depth of the sound. Just a little more natural. The ADA1000 certainly seems to be enough for them at this listening distance in this room. I'm playing them as loud as I can comfortably listen to them, and there's no hint of distortion. Loud and pure. So far I'm just listening to 2-channel music. It sounds like I'll be harder-pressed to notice a major difference with movies in full surround based on the limited comments already out there.
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#381347 - 08/11/12 04:05 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: CV
So far I'm just listening to 2-channel music. It sounds like I'll be harder-pressed to notice a major difference with movies in full surround based on the limited comments already out there.


I do quite a bit of 2-channel listening as well... However, with that being said, i have noticed a difference with movies as well. Like you said, one would not think that there would not be a noticeable difference while watching movies. However, there is a distinct difference and in my system, they added a decent amount of depth...


On a side note, can you give your opinion of the difference between the Emotiva and Axiom amps? I would be interested to hear you opinion on that matter.


Edited by dakkon (08/11/12 04:06 PM)

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#381351 - 08/11/12 10:31 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: dakkon]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: dakkon
On a side note, can you give your opinion of the difference between the Emotiva and Axiom amps? I would be interested to hear you opinion on that matter.


The Emotiva has one less channel, is bigger, and weighs a lot more. They both amplify transparently. I can't really compare further since I'm unable to do direct A/B comparisons, and I'm running the front and rear drivers of the LFRs with the ADA1000 while I was only running front drivers of the LFRs with the XPA-3. I definitely don't regret getting the Axiom amp. This one will be powering the surrounds once I get the ADA1500-4 for the fronts. I guess the Emotiva will power the center at some point, though I don't currently have a place to put it. I'll eventually have Axiom amps all around. I'm still holding out for a pre-pro or receiver that gives me enough features over my current one, including doing simultaneous heights and wides (even if their value may have gone down with the LFRs in the system).
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#381352 - 08/11/12 11:04 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: CV

The Emotiva has one less channel, is bigger, and weighs a lot more.

The Emo is a Class A/B amp which explains the extra weight. My large 2 channel is a class A amp, and weighs 90lbs....... This is part of why i was asking what your opinion was, since the Axiom amp is a digital amp as compared to the class A/B you're use to.

Originally Posted By: CV
I'm still holding out for a pre-pro or receiver that gives me enough features over my current one, including doing simultaneous heights and wides (even if their value may have gone down with the LFRs in the system).


I am waiting to get the Integra DHC-80.3, or the next version... It just depends.. I am pretty happy with my current processor, it just doesn't have HDMI and the new networking stuff... So, i guess like yourself i am not in a rush to get something new but at some point i will make a purchase.

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#381353 - 08/11/12 11:53 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: dakkon]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Alex, the Axiom(class D switching)isn't a digital amp, and there's no good reason to expect that two high quality units wouldn't both amplify transparently when operated within their designed limits.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#381354 - 08/12/12 12:12 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
John, i am pretty sure that an amp which operates as a Class D amp by definition is a digital amp, due to the way it operates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier


I would agree that there should not be any significant difference between the Axiom amps and the Emo's for all practical purposes. But, it would still be interesting to hear a comparison between the two designs.

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#381356 - 08/12/12 12:34 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: dakkon]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
No; D is simply the class that followed C. See brief discussion here .
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#381357 - 08/12/12 12:41 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
No audible difference between Class A and Class D amplifiers? Really?
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#381360 - 08/12/12 02:03 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1181
Loc: Whitehorse YT
from axiom amp page "The massive analog power supply partners with the Axiom Digital Amplifier to exceed 90% efficiency"
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I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#381361 - 08/12/12 02:05 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: 2x6spds]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1181
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
No audible difference between Class A and Class D amplifiers? Really?




2X no one wins in a head butt lol and no will win this argument either. Seems both camps are firm in their position. Me i dont care , i'm more tim taylor, MORE POWER grin

For the doubter's Why did Pioneer pay Air Studio's in london to tune their sc 55 class d3 reciever , which delayed its release. So really how can we say amplifiers all sound the same ???


Edited by Socketman (08/12/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#381386 - 08/12/12 01:30 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I agree with you about the obvious audio truth that all solid state amplifiers do not sound the same.

I agree when it comes to home theater, however, I respectfully disagree about MORE POWER concerning 2 channel music systems.

For me, 5-20 wpc from a Single End Triode tube amp is da audio bomb.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#381465 - 08/13/12 09:44 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7032
Loc: Canada
Damn CV, you sure are getting your moneys worth out of Axiom. Disappointed women swooning over your posts, Andrew personally testing your gear...

I'm looking forward to your comments on the speakers as you listen to them more. Axiom has done something interesting here with their new offering and it would be great if they hit this one out of the park.
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#381482 - 08/14/12 02:39 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: fredk]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I still need to watch some movies with them. I'll try to do that this coming weekend. I wish I had more room to play with placement in my current room, but it's just not happening. As it is, I think they're over a foot from the wall, which I think is pretty good considering the space constraints. I'm really crossing my fingers for the basement being ready (even if it will still be far from truly finished) to move my system to by the end of summer. Then I can play with placement a lot more.

Just with the music I've been listening to, I do feel like the sound is more three-dimensional, though it does vary. Some material still wants to be flat. It also feels like it's playing cleaner at higher volumes, though I had v2 M80s, so that may have been improved by v3. Not that the M80s were lacking, really, but these just seem to go that little bit further.

For me, based on what I've heard so far, it's worth it, though this price point makes it hard to recommend to other people. They have to be in the market at this price point, I guess, and they have to be fine with getting just that little bit of extra performance. For the people with the disposable income, I'd say the LFRs are a good way to go. Granted, I don't have the means to directly compare them to other speakers in the price range. I wonder if any hobbyists ever get together around here. It would be a hassle, but I think it would be fun to get a conference room somewhere and see what gear people show up with. At least it would give me more points of reference.

Anyway, I'm very happy with what I've been able to achieve with Axioms in my home theater, and I think I can safely say I'll continue to support their research. One thing I'm hoping is they'll make it easy to upgrade the LFRs to newer versions. That's one reason I was hoping for a fully active external crossover. It's probably more of an ordeal if you're switching out the passive crossover. I'm curious if future versions might incorporate changes in the drivers that were made for Bryston's Axiom collaboration. The guy at Bryston made a big deal of transient response in that thread that was linked to. In any case, I'm just thinking I would rather be able to upgrade my LFRs in the future rather than trying to sell these and buy whatever future versions are released. It's not going to be easy for me to stay with Axiom flagships at this price is all.

Now I need to save for a new display, since my warranty ran out on my Sony SXRD (I got a 5-year warranty after the trouble with my first one--I can't believe it's been that long), and it feels like what's holding my system back at this point. Besides the room, I mean. I may still go with a projector, but I'm leaning toward a cheaper 65" plasma to last me until more laser projectors are out. That would at least give me 5 more inches and would probably give me faster HDMI switching. But an even larger image from a projector would be better.

Anyway, I still have more to get out of the LFRs, so I'm sure I'll have more to say after 1) I watch more movies, and 2) I move them into a better room.
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#381492 - 08/14/12 09:24 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
On the topic of displays: For my new place, I'm planning to get a cheap projector so I can get used to the tech, and work out setup bugs. Then when the prices of the lasers come down, I'll be ready.

This is the same thing I did when going from a CRT to a plasma. At the time I was wanting to upgrade plasmas were $5000, so I got a $500 LCD that had about the same viewable area as my 36" 4:3 CRT when showing a letter boxed movie. So it was more of a side-grade.

That's what I want to do again, something that's a side-grade from my 50" plasma. Probably a bigger picture, but not as deep blacks, or some small trade-off.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
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Sony PS3, surround backs
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#381530 - 08/14/12 06:38 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: CV
The guy at Bryston made a big deal of transient response in that thread that was linked to. In any case, I'm just thinking I would rather be able to upgrade my LFRs in the future rather than trying to sell these and buy whatever future versions are released. It's not going to be easy for me to stay with Axiom flagships at this price is all.



I don't quite follow you on this one... It sounds like you want to get the Bryston Model T's, and have some buyers remorse due to future products? I thought about getting the Model t's myself. However, the Bryston's will be in the 10k$ price range. They also need 6 channels of amplification... Also, I think the primary changes to the Brystons were made to the 8" woofers (this is just a guess on my part).. Since the LFR's use 6 1'2" woofers,i don't know if the "upgrade" would be needed or available..

Since you asked about other brands in the same price range.

Another Brand i was considering was a pair of pre-owned Wilson Sasha's. These are going for 5-7k$ used.. However, since we were able to get the LFR's for 2,700$, i thought the LFR's were a much better value. I auditioned the Wilson's and they sounded quite nice; however, i think that the LFR's+ a pair of 600's out perform the wilson's by a long shot at the same price point. I would hypotheses that for the same amount of money one would spend on the Model T's you could get MUCH more performance from a combination of Axiom products. for 10k$, one could easily buy a pair of LFR's and a pair of EP-800's.


I think once you get your speakers moved into the basement, and there is a solid wall behind both of your LFR's you will notice a significant improvement.

I look forward to your future comments.

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#381543 - 08/14/12 08:02 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: dakkon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7032
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: dakkon
[quote=CV] ...for the same amount of money one would spend on the Model T's you could get MUCH more performance from a combination of Axiom products. for 10k$, one could easily buy a pair of LFR's and a pair of EP-800's.

Speaking of which, how's that pair of EP800s doing CV? grin

You're already high enough in the audioholic food chain that upgrading, no matter what it is to or from, will be painful unless you have a LOT of spare cash.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#381562 - 08/15/12 12:04 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: dakkon]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: dakkon
I don't quite follow you on this one... It sounds like you want to get the Bryston Model T's, and have some buyers remorse due to future products?


No, I was never in the market for the Model T. And there's no buyer's remorse at work. I'm satisfied with what the LFRs offer me over the M80s. I'm just saying that the improved transient response (if that's the term he was using) was a performance characteristic he was after, and if Axiom verifies an audible benefit to this design choice, I could see them incorporating a change in their own stock drivers. When these improvements accumulate into a new version number, it would simply be nice for owners of this generation to be able to more easily upgrade. I'd personally like to keep pace with Axiom's developments, so this is just me being greedy.
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#381564 - 08/15/12 12:07 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: fredk]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: fredk
Speaking of which, how's that pair of EP800s doing CV? grin

You're already high enough in the audioholic food chain that upgrading, no matter what it is to or from, will be painful unless you have a LOT of spare cash.


True enough.

And the four EP800s are doing quite well. I was just watching the THX, DTS, and Dolby intros the other day at reference level, and wow, they sound (and feel) good.
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#381583 - 08/15/12 08:19 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4074
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: dakkon
I don't quite follow you on this one... It sounds like you want to get the Bryston Model T's, and have some buyers remorse due to future products?


No, I was never in the market for the Model T. And there's no buyer's remorse at work. I'm satisfied with what the LFRs offer me over the M80s. I'm just saying that the improved transient response (if that's the term he was using) was a performance characteristic he was after, and if Axiom verifies an audible benefit to this design choice, I could see them incorporating a change in their own stock drivers. When these improvements accumulate into a new version number, it would simply be nice for owners of this generation to be able to more easily upgrade. I'd personally like to keep pace with Axiom's developments, so this is just me being greedy.


Not only a change in the voice coil and mass but also in the driver material. The guy from Bryston states the cone material is a combination of magnesium/aluminum. Those are significant changes.
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#381626 - 08/15/12 06:13 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: BlueJays1]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 812
Loc: Victoria,BC
You just bought the speakers and are thinking of an upgrade already? I think you should have got the DSP with the center board.. that is an upgrade.

Four EP800s , that is nuts! I just don't get it, but Charles, you are one of a kind.
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#381627 - 08/15/12 06:54 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
The four subs keep the alligators at bay.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#381631 - 08/15/12 08:12 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: SBrown]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: SBrown

Four EP800s , that is nuts! I just don't get it, but Charles, you are one of a kind.



Says the guy using M80's as HEIGHT speakers.........


Just sayin.....

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#381633 - 08/15/12 08:26 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
grin
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#381635 - 08/15/12 08:37 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: dakkon]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1181
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: SBrown

Four EP800s , that is nuts! I just don't get it, but Charles, you are one of a kind.



Says the guy using M80's as HEIGHT speakers.........


Just sayin.....





Id like to know wtf he is using to hang them up ??
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#381654 - 08/16/12 12:28 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: SBrown]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: SBrown
You just bought the speakers and are thinking of an upgrade already? I think you should have got the DSP with the center board.. that is an upgrade.

Four EP800s , that is nuts! I just don't get it, but Charles, you are one of a kind.


I'll probably get another DSP after I figure out what I'm doing for center channel(s). I'm still leaning toward two VP180s, but if I can fit an M80, I may still go with that. I should figure out the maximum screen size I could get away with. I know Axiom just came out with two new center channel options, but I was thinking it would be cool if they made a two-part center channel that was specifically designed to be mounted on the ceiling and floor above and below the screen. Of course this would primarily be for people with projectors.

Everyone kept saying four subs was pretty much the magic number, so I guess I just needed that second pair.
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#381663 - 08/16/12 10:10 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: CV

I'll probably get another DSP after I figure out what I'm doing for center channel(s). I'm still leaning toward two VP180s, but if I can fit an M80


Are you going with an acoustically transparent screen? I am assuming so... I think one thing to consider would be 2 180's would most likely be much better than a single M80... You could do the above and below the screen thing. And as far as height goes, they aren't "That" tall.


Originally Posted By: CV

Everyone kept saying four subs was pretty much the magic number, so I guess I just needed that second pair.


Wait, Do you actually have a pair of 800's? I was being somewhat facetious with my previous posts......

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#381664 - 08/16/12 10:11 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
He's got 4.
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#381740 - 08/17/12 09:36 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: Ken.C]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Or 2 pair grin
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Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#382106 - 08/25/12 07:56 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I love my sound system. I just need to say that again. Ha ha.
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#382109 - 08/25/12 08:45 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Glad you are enjoying everything, Charles!
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***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#382748 - 09/12/12 12:10 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Hey, I got a shipment notification from Axiom. Next week could be a good week.
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#383167 - 09/23/12 01:23 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Oh, and that shipment was my repaired AudioByte amp, so I'm back in business with that. I got the shipment notification for my ADA1500-4, though, on the 19th, which I should receive on the 26th. Very excited about that, even though the ADA1000-4 seems to be completely satisfying my amplification needs in the current room, but hey, I'll be ready (at least in this aspect) for the basement!
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#383228 - 09/24/12 08:19 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6768
Loc: PEI, Canada
Nice! Although I have to say on another matter that I wasn't aware until reading another post just now that you owned four EP800s.

This certainly explains why you are always in constant renovation mode and why the IAEE just added a new fault line to their maps in your vicinity.
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#383306 - 09/26/12 03:57 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: Murph]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Murph
Nice! Although I have to say on another matter that I wasn't aware until reading another post just now that you owned four EP800s.

This certainly explains why you are always in constant renovation mode and why the IAEE just added a new fault line to their maps in your vicinity.


Ha ha. Too funny. When the basement is finally whipped into shape, you're all invited to come feel the four-EP800/Buttkicker combo. My apologies in advance to the taller people among you. As I've said, my basement ceiling is only 79" high. Of course, I think JC still has me beat, so if he's closer, he's probably the one to visit.

I got my A1500-4 today. I just hooked it up, and it works. I can't really blast it this late, but that will come this weekend when I watch The Avengers.

Before I hooked it up, I took these:











My apologies for the blurry shots. I didn't know they were that bad when I took them.

How about those heat sinks? I'm impressed with the build quality all-around. Maybe not the prettiest amp you can buy, but everything comes across as very solid with no corners cut on performance. I will say the motherboard is an attractive black.

As you can see, there's a foot in the middle of the bottom of the amp, which the A1400-4 didn't have. A little extra support.
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#383308 - 09/26/12 04:50 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: CV
As you can see, there's a foot in the middle of the bottom of the amp, which the A1400-4 didn't have. A little extra support.


I meant ADA1000-4, but you knew that. I can't be the founder of the Axiom Upgrade Club if I can't keep the product names straight, now can I?
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#383320 - 09/26/12 12:52 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8271
Loc: Tacoma
Oooooh! Aaaaaah!

I see you voided your warranty already.

Looking forward to reading more about your experiences with what seems to be an "ultimate" Axiom system.
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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#383323 - 09/26/12 01:33 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
CV is our Locutus of Borg. Pretty soon he'll be made entirely of Axiom parts.

I say this with equal parts envy and curiosity.
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#383325 - 09/26/12 02:26 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
While I plan to spend even more money with Axiom (heights and/or wides, as well as try a horizontal center again), the upgrades will unfortunately have to slow with the rent hike that comes with the basement remodel. I may have to figure out a second source of income!
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#383327 - 09/26/12 02:29 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
CV: Male Prostitute? smile
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#383330 - 09/26/12 02:32 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
The women of the Pacific Northwest demand satisfaction!

Or men, I guess. Not sure which way you were going with that, Mark.
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"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#383361 - 09/26/12 08:32 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: MarkSJohnson]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7032
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
CV: Male Prostitute? smile

With 4 ep800s, his clients will feel the earth move.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#385542 - 11/12/12 03:18 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Ooh, I got the shipment notification for my DSP. I should be back in business in the middle of the week, then. Thanks, Amie!
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#385598 - 11/13/12 12:50 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Ooh, I already got my DSP. That was 1-day, not 2-day. The DSP is cold from the weather, so I guess I'll let it acclimate before I hook it up. I'm excited. And my VP180 should arrive via FedEx Ground in a couple of hours. And then UPS should deliver Brave in the afternoon, so this evening will be a good one.
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#385604 - 11/13/12 02:40 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
Looking forward to a report, Charles!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#385623 - 11/13/12 11:53 PM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11159
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
You're going to find my reporting skills lacking, as usual.

It sounds amazing. But I can't tell you that I notice it sounding more amazing than before. I listened to a bit of 2-channel music first. Lykke Li sounds phenomenal. But yeah, I just wouldn't be able to quantify any differences, and you wouldn't be able to trust them if I tried. I'd definitely be interested in direct comparisons of different versions of the code if I make it to Axiom sometime.

Like I mentioned in the LED thread, the LED on the front of the DSP isn't lighting up. The DSP itself functions fine, so I won't worry about the LED. I'll have Axiom fix it the next time there's a code update.

The VP180 did arrive, so I hooked that up as well. There certainly feels like there's more presence in the center, and it seems less distinctly like its own channel, but rather part of a seamless wall. My friend was over, and she chose The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo to watch (before we went to see Skyfall at the theater, so apparently she likes Daniel Craig), and let me just say again, I'm really loving how my whole system sounds working together. Blu-ray + my sound system are making me smile a lot. Thanks, Axiom!

I'm still looking forward to a lot more experimenting with placement after I move my system to the basement. I'm sure I can get even more out of what I've cobbled together.
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#385643 - 11/14/12 10:12 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6768
Loc: PEI, Canada
Is the LED blue? If so, it must be repaired immediately!

and thanks for the review. It certainly would be tough to do a comparison after the unit had been out of your hands for a while. Glad to hear the effect as a whole is poative though.
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#385644 - 11/14/12 10:21 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
LOL...I wanted to write something along the same lines, Murph! grin
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#385645 - 11/14/12 10:25 AM Re: LFR1100/ADA [Re: CV]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6768
Loc: PEI, Canada
As Ricky from Trailer Park Boys would say.
"Sometimes the similsilarities between us scare me."
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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