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#382632 - 09/10/12 11:19 AM New HT Speaker Selection
MJH Offline
regular

Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 6
I have finally started to build my home theater The room will be used mainly for TV (NFL)/Movies. So after much reading I have a few questions.

The Room:

15x25x7 - The exterior walls have vapor sheeting 2x4 studs (2 sides) the interior walls are 2x4 studs (all walls are in studs, with sound proofing insulation at the moment, so I can change anything). The main viewing wall was built on the 25 foot section and has a recess area for a 80" LED TV (The LED will be flush with the will once set in the recessed area), and 24 inches depth (Space between the walls)for speakers, etc. The seating will be 10 feet from the viewing wall, 3 feet from the surrounds, and 3 feet from the rears.

Looking at going with the following:

LR - http://www.axiomaudio.com/m60-in-cabinet-speakers.html
C - http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp160-in-cabinet-speakers.html

The in-cabinet speakers will be placed into the walls. The main reason I am choosing the M60 over the M80 is the 4 ohm of the M80. I am currently have a Onkyo TX-NR3009 but am open to changing. Do you think the M60 is the correct speaker for the room size and use (purpose), or should I look at the M80?

Side/Rears - http://www.axiomaudio.com/qs8-surround-sound-speakers.html

I do have columns proposed in the build, but with the QS8, I am going to remove the columns.

Do to budget I am going with a 5.1 system, and move to a 7.2 around Christmas. The room is being wired for 11.4. So there is room to grow.

Sub, I have been looking at the HSU VTF-2 MK4 Sub woofer. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

I am in the beginning building stage of the project and will not be hanging sheet rock for a couple of weeks. So I have a time to nail everything down.

I appreciate any input/feedback you can give me.

Thanks -

Matt

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#382651 - 09/10/12 02:51 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6620
Loc: PEI, Canada
Sounds like you have some good plans on the go. Did you have some specific questions?
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#382652 - 09/10/12 02:56 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4334
Loc: Marion, IA
I'll say it. Actually I will say BOTH things...

WELCOME
and
CONGRATULATIONS!
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#382661 - 09/10/12 04:02 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8135
Loc: Tacoma
Hi Matt, Welcome.

You should look at Nick's build thread and peruse some of the other threads.

It sounds like you've already done a fair amount of analysis. I'd offer up only a couple observations.

First, I wouldn't let the impedance of the M80/VP180 dissuade you. Those are Axiom's "ultimate" HT speakers and that is a pretty big room. If you can swing the extra money and extra space, well, you know. You can always add amplification later if you find that your receiver doesn't power them as loudly as you'd like, but I very seriously doubt that happening.

That being said, I think you'll love the VP160/M60 combination and it's probably more than plenty.

Second, I'm glad to see you're planning for a second sub. Again, that's a big room. I'd also wire for multiple possible sub locations. I'd really recommend two subs, and maybe the VTF-3 or similar. You can spend an ungodly amount of money on subs. Hsu presents a good value, as does SVS and many other companies including Axiom. I really think - in view of your overall plan and room size - you're a little undercapitalized on subwoofer capacity for movies.

Because the QS8's are so good, I didn't get a cost-proportionate thrill going from 5.1 to 7.1 in my room.

Get plenty of electrical circuits in there.

HAVE FUN!
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#382665 - 09/10/12 04:34 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
Brent Offline
buff

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 59
The M60/VP160 in-wall series will provide excellent coverage to your area and the load is easily driven by your Onkyo.
_________________________
Brent Tombari
Axiom Audio Expert

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#382674 - 09/10/12 08:37 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: Murph]
MJH Offline
regular

Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: Murph
Sounds like you have some good plans on the go. Did you have some specific questions?


Couple of questions:

1. How will the in cabinet speakers perform in a in wall environment? I have the wall spacing, but have not found or read anyone that has done in cabinets in in wall setting. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree and should stick with on/in walls.

2. The room is 2,625 cubic feet, is the M60 going to be enough for this size of a room, or should I be looking at the M80?

3. I am looking at going with the VP160, is the VP180 that great of an upgrade?

4. I am looking at going with 2 HSU subs, If I move up to the M80 do you think i would need a 2nd sub in a room of that size?

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#382675 - 09/10/12 08:56 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8135
Loc: Tacoma
Originally Posted By: MJH
1. How will the in cabinet speakers perform in a in wall environment? I have the wall spacing, but have not found or read anyone that has done in cabinets in in wall setting. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree and should stick with on/in walls.


I think you're golden. The in-cabinet speakers should perform significantly better than inwall/onwall counterparts because the enclosure size is not compromised. I would totally do the in-cabinet versions.

Originally Posted By: MJH
2. The room is 2,625 cubic feet, is the M60 going to be enough for this size of a room, or should I be looking at the M80?


Brent is the expert and he says you're good. I don't think the M80 is going to make a big difference, unless you're going to always wonder "what if".

Originally Posted By: MJH
3. I am looking at going with the VP160, is the VP180 that great of an upgrade?


I have no basis for opinion, except the reviews posted by other forum members.

Originally Posted By: MJH
4. I am looking at going with 2 HSU subs, If I move up to the M80 do you think i would need a 2nd sub in a room of that size?


I don't think that the M80 mitigates the need for a second sub. You need to push a lot of sub-40Hz content for movies.

Hopefully, the smart people will chime in, too.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#382677 - 09/10/12 09:01 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: tomtuttle]
MJH Offline
regular

Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Hi Matt, Welcome.

You should look at Nick's build thread and peruse some of the other threads.

It sounds like you've already done a fair amount of analysis. I'd offer up only a couple observations.

First, I wouldn't let the impedance of the M80/VP180 dissuade you. Those are Axiom's "ultimate" HT speakers and that is a pretty big room. If you can swing the extra money and extra space, well, you know. You can always add amplification later if you find that your receiver doesn't power them as loudly as you'd like, but I very seriously doubt that happening.

That being said, I think you'll love the VP160/M60 combination and it's probably more than plenty.

Second, I'm glad to see you're planning for a second sub. Again, that's a big room. I'd also wire for multiple possible sub locations. I'd really recommend two subs, and maybe the VTF-3 or similar. You can spend an ungodly amount of money on subs. Hsu presents a good value, as does SVS and many other companies including Axiom. I really think - in view of your overall plan and room size - you're a little undercapitalized on subwoofer capacity for movies.

Because the QS8's are so good, I didn't get a cost-proportionate thrill going from 5.1 to 7.1 in my room.

Get plenty of electrical circuits in there.

HAVE FUN!





Sub locations are covered, there is 4 outlets wired in the room for RG6 (RCA) and 12/4 wiring. Each outlet in located near the room corners in the front, and near the seating area. There is also AC outlets near each sub outlet as well as around the room.

The seating is Lane home theater power seating set of 4 in a row with a butt kicker mounted in each chair (it is wired for RG6 (RCA) and 12/4 feed to each chair in-floor).

Budget wise, I could go 2 or more subs from the start. The budget is not really an issue (other than the wife budget and what she thinks it should costs, which is a whole different subject). I am unsure if I need two subs with the kickers and in cabinets speakers. I would rather grow the system then give away gear to my son-in-law as I've done in the past.

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#382679 - 09/10/12 09:19 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: tomtuttle]
MJH Offline
regular

Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: MJH
4. I am looking at going with 2 HSU subs, If I move up to the M80 do you think i would need a 2nd sub in a room of that size?

I don't think that the M80 mitigates the need for a second sub. You need to push a lot of sub-40Hz content for movies.

Hopefully, the smart people will chime in, too.


How do you think the EP500 v3 in-cabinet sub woofer http://www.axiomaudio.com/ep500-in-cabinet-subwoofer.html would perform? Would it perform as well as or better than two HSU VTF-3 MK4 http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html ?

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#382681 - 09/10/12 09:37 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
Matt, welcome. For the most part you seem to have thought this out pretty well. The one exception is that you've placed far too much weight on a 4 ohm vs 8 ohm speaker impedance rating. The M80s have an impedance around 4 ohms for less than half of the frequency range and average about 6 ohms. The slightly greater heating effect on the receiver when playing in the 4 ohm frequency range is no problem for quality receivers, certainly including your excellent 3009.

The M60s will undoubtedly work well for you, but there's no good reason to disregard the M80s.

The main advantage of a second sub would be to help smooth out the bass response if properly placed(e.g., midpoints of the side walls or front and back wall, or diagonally opposite corners), rather than simply added loudness potential.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#382683 - 09/10/12 09:43 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4840
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I don't have much to add other than u can't go wrong with m60 or m80. Get what your budget permits. That being said, I originally planned on getting m60s, but found an audition for m80 only I knew I wanted them .

Welcome!
_________________________
-David

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#382700 - 09/10/12 11:22 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: terzaghi]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 6965
Loc: Canada
As others have mentioned, you will be able to drive the M80s just fine with that receiver. However, given your use, I would invest in a better sub for movies rather than the M80. If money is not an issue, go for the EP800.

Poking around, I see that SVS has some PB13 Ultra subs on clearance at $1,600 in an oak finish. If that includes shipping and you can live with that finish, that is a great deal.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#382704 - 09/10/12 11:50 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: fredk]
MJH Offline
regular

Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 6
Thank you everyone for your input.

My order is placed for:

1 - VP160 in-cabinet
1 - Pair M60 in-cabinet
1 - Pair QS8

I am going to do some more research on subs (PB13 is a good recommendation) and will check back in with my findings and purchase. Once I get the speakers installed, I will post photos.

Thanks again everyone.

Matt

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#382787 - 09/12/12 09:07 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
bwallen77 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 36
HI Matt,

I think you will be extremely happy with your purchase. I have a set of in cabinet speakers and I honestly can not tell the difference between my regular floor standers upstairs and my in cab's in the basement home theater. I have had my theater up and running for 6 months now and this is the first time upgradeitis has left me alone. Enjoy the new speakers!

FYI, I own an in-cab ep800 and it is awsome. It's really cool something so big can be hid in the wall and sound so good.

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#382794 - 09/12/12 10:06 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
gearcruncher Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/16/12
Posts: 37
Loc: Red Lake Ontario
My basement theatre is 24 X 20 using the M60,s , the Vp160, two Qs8,s and 2 M3,s and a pb 12 for 7.1
I have not sound proofed as of yet ( waiting for the snow to fly )
All I can say is the system simply rocks nice , cyrstal clear and loud .Thats with a tiny Yammy receiver @ 90/channel . I play music in surround mode with all 7 speakers running and the sound is simply awesome . I have a few sound leaks < sounds like the music is being played upstairs in my living room hehehe . When I watch blue ray movies , the house rattles and the windows shake to the point where I think the windows are gonna crack . I am also considering the receiver you are looking at . Ive owned some top of the line Onkyo receivers in the past and the THX versions really perform well
_________________________
M60,s Vp160 , QS8,M3,s Svs 12 . Yammy 5063 ,Panamax 5100,PS3,Optima HD80

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#382825 - 09/13/12 02:46 PM Re: New HT Speaker Selection [Re: MJH]
niveka Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 29
MJH, It sounds like you are building something very similar to what I have done. I too went with a false wall and the in-cabinet speakers. I started a post about my project here, it has some pics as well: http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=379638#Post379638

I have not heard all the in-cabinet speakers at once yet, but can say that after listening to each one individually, they sound riveting. Let me know if you have any questions I may be able to help you with.

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