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#384286 - 10/17/12 10:01 PM Too good
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 976
I recently read a review for the M80's that concerned
me (too good for bad recordings) and it got me re-thinking of using the same 5 speakers for the mains in my current 7.2 and future 11.2 set up.
The most obvious down sides are the center speaker height and not being able to free up floor space taken up by rear speaker stands.
Hopefully someone here is willing to comment on a similar layout.


Edited by brwsaw (10/17/12 10:42 PM)
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#384366 - 10/19/12 07:32 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
notified
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#384369 - 10/19/12 08:54 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Mark, notified of/for what? Was there a spammer message here and it is now gone? I've seen that you "notified" in another of brwsaw's posts. Just wondering.
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#384371 - 10/19/12 09:23 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
Yes, a spammer had posted three times this morning. It looks like the posts have been removed now.

Maybe I shouldn't put the "notified" posts up, but I figure it might save 10 other people from having to notify as well(?).
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#384372 - 10/19/12 09:26 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
If you hit notify on an already notified post, you get told pretty quickly that someone beat you to it. So yeah, I don't think you need to make the post.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#384373 - 10/19/12 09:34 AM Re: Too good [Re: ClubNeon]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Maybe we should notify about Mark's notified posts?
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#384375 - 10/19/12 09:45 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6380
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Notify about the notified? Not if I have any say today, K?
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#384383 - 10/19/12 10:25 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Hey, it all helps to get post counts up, right? Mark is getting closer to 10,000 posts you know.

Me, I have been around here for 11 more days than him, but only have a fraction of his post count.
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#384387 - 10/19/12 10:44 AM Re: Too good [Re: nickbuol]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10833
Loc: Central NH
Yeah, but you've built an HT.

Me? I haven't set my distances yet since buying the VP160 a loooong time ago.

Edit: And Chris, I didn't realize that. I'm usually one of the earlier people online in the morning, so it seems I usually come across those SPAMs first. (Even though this morning I slept in).


Edited by MarkSJohnson (10/19/12 10:47 AM)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#384391 - 10/19/12 12:14 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
The system does prevent more than one person from notifying, incidentally.
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I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#384394 - 10/19/12 01:30 PM Re: Too good [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
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#384395 - 10/19/12 02:24 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6380
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
I liked the siren. It was like ...
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#384397 - 10/19/12 02:48 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
JP, we can't hear you through the computer.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#384398 - 10/19/12 03:23 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6380
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
OK, I WILL TALK LOUDER! I LIKE THE SIREN! IT'S LIKE ...
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#384408 - 10/19/12 07:41 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
You guys are silly.



laugh
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"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#384417 - 10/20/12 08:12 AM Re: Too good [Re: Ken.C]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
The system does prevent more than one person from notifying, incidentally.

Damn! That means we can't all notify Mark's notify posts. I feel like I'm in an episode of Pinky and the Brain.
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#384443 - 10/20/12 07:16 PM Re: Too good [Re: fredk]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4788
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: fredk
I feel like I'm in an episode of Pinky and the Brain.

I just had the same thought.

Why am i talking as loudly as JP?
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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#384466 - 10/21/12 02:33 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
For the OP,

Try sending a PM to onn on this site, he has 5 M80s in his system.
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Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#384468 - 10/21/12 04:22 AM Re: Too good [Re: jakewash]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 976
Originally Posted By: jakewash
For the OP,

Try sending a PM to onn on this site, he has 5 M80s in his system.


Thanks. I've decided the M80 is the right speaker.
There no doubt in my mind I will have an actual HT twice the size of my current one in my next home.
I've also decided to use my extra channels to bi-amp them. I will be giving up all but 5.1 but for my current needs this makes the most sense.


Edited by brwsaw (10/21/12 04:31 AM)
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Bringing up my average 1 hour at a time

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#384470 - 10/21/12 09:00 AM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
There's really no benefit in using the bi-amping provided by receivers these days. In fact, there's probably no benefit from bi-amping unless you were to remove the crossovers in the speakers and purchase an active external crossover as well as separate amps.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#384474 - 10/21/12 12:24 PM Re: Too good [Re: Ken.C]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 976
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
There's really no benefit in using the bi-amping provided by receivers these days. In fact, there's probably no benefit from bi-amping unless you were to remove the crossovers in the speakers and purchase an active external crossover as well as separate amps.


Thats bitter sweet news.
I had read "the more power you give them the better they sound".
I would get to keep either front pressence or rear surrounds...

I would actually keep both but currenty I only can run either the front or rears at one time. I should have bought a model up last year but...


Edited by brwsaw (10/21/12 12:37 PM)
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Bringing up my average 1 hour at a time

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#384476 - 10/21/12 12:42 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17742
Loc: NoVA
It wouldn't actually be more power, unfortunately--for one thing, it's all coming from the same power supply, and for another, even with separate amps, the power doesn't sum (tweeters and mids take much less power than woofers, so they'd consequentially be using a smaller percentage at any given volume level.)

The jury is out on "the more power the better" thing. Or, I should say, there is intense disagreement on it. But I don't think you'll get a lot of disagreement that biamping internal to the receiver doesn't give you more power.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#384477 - 10/21/12 01:05 PM Re: Too good [Re: Ken.C]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 976
Before I started looking around at recievers I figured it was all pretty simple.
1) Don't buy cheap if you want good sound
2) Don't underpower your speakers
3) Tweak
4) Upgrade
5) Repeat
_________________________
Bringing up my average 1 hour at a time

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#384495 - 10/21/12 09:36 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You can overdo it 3. You can definitely overdo it on 4. Try to keep the number of times you do 5 to a minimum. smile
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#384496 - 10/21/12 10:22 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
BRW, you appear to have picked up some misinformation in your reading elsewhere. Specifically on the two main points you mention here, a receiver can't be used to "bi-amp" a speaker and you can't simply "give" a speaker more power.

Bi-amping by definition requires two amplifiers; a receiver has only one amplifier with several output channels. The output transistors in each channel just act as valves to distribute the required amount of voltage needed in each channel at some instant in time from the receiver's power supply section. The individual channels have no power of their own, it all comes from the limited supply available in the main central power supply. Distributing this to a speaker through two channels rather than one can't increase the power available by any amount.

As to "giving" a speaker more power, that only takes place when it's played louder. At a given loudness level a speaker uses only the amount of power for which it's designed, regardless of the amplifier. At a comfortably loud level speakers of typical sensitivity, such as the Axioms, use about 1 watt. Brief peaks can take much more, of course, but unlikely anything beyond the 100 watts or so typical receivers can easily support. Adding an amplifier with a maximum capacity of 200 or 2000 watts doesn't accomplish anything. Unused headroom is simply that: unused.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#384498 - 10/21/12 11:16 PM Re: Too good [Re: JohnK]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 976
Wishful thinking indeed.
Always good news though.I'll keep reading, maybe I'll understand it a bit better by the time my color samples arrive.


Edited by brwsaw (10/21/12 11:49 PM)
_________________________
Bringing up my average 1 hour at a time

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#384500 - 10/21/12 11:25 PM Re: Too good [Re: brwsaw]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
All of those amplifiers share the same power supply.
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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#384501 - 10/21/12 11:49 PM Re: Too good [Re: tomtuttle]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 976
Fair enough.
_________________________
Bringing up my average 1 hour at a time

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