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#387816 - 01/06/13 10:42 AM Pioneer AVR former or present owner's expertise
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
Just received my Pioneer Sc-67 on Friday(boy does it look sharp)still piecing together my components as I'm able too(more on the way). I have done a lot of research along the way on this receiver, but have not been able to read any information pertaining to a certain matter dealing with this particular receiver. So I have some questions.

I will be going with a 9.2 set up, including Heights & wides. My questions right now deal with the subs. I know they are not independent of each other. I also understand there is no sub Eqing, for lessening some frequency peaks.

First question, what does the Mcacc programming offer up to the end user as part on the initial set up? Does it at least set distances? Does it try to phase them in? Or is this done manually using a spl meter along with adjusting the phase control on the amp plate? With the Mcacc room correction lacking sub Eqing, is there a work around for perhaps some benefit on this matter? Right now I have no interest in purchasing any separate component for sub Eq.
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"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#387819 - 01/06/13 12:33 PM ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Gary Vose Sr
Just received my Pioneer Sc-67 on Friday(boy does it look sharp)still piecing together my components as I'm able too(more on the way). I have done a lot of research along the way on this receiver, but have not been able to read any information pertaining to a certain matter dealing with this particular receiver. So I have some questions.

I will be going with a 9.2 set up, including Heights & wides. My questions right now deal with the subs. I know they are not independent of each other. I also understand there is no sub Eqing, for lessening some frequency peaks.

First question, what does the Mcacc programming offer up to the end user as part on the initial set up? Does it at least set distances? Does it try to phase them in? Or is this done manually using a spl meter along with adjusting the phase control on the amp plate? With the Mcacc room correction lacking sub Eqing, is there a work around for perhaps some benefit on this matter? Right now I have no interest in purchasing any separate component for sub Eq.


The problem with any subwoofer in an HT system is that we are all, to some extent, limited in where we can place that sub in the room, so generally, if space allows it, it is always better to have at least two to compensate for any deficiencies in room sound. Once you set the volume balance and the phase between them and the rest of the speakers it should be fine so, really, you don't even need an SPL meter for this part of the equation. You can do that by ear better, especially with phase and, most often in this case, it is just a matter of personal taste anyway.

I have a Velodyne SMS sub EQ that I have used now for a number of years and even after a number of calibrations, even though it was showing a pretty good balance on the screen graph, in the end, I really didn't care that much for the sound because the problem with human hearing and an SPL meter is neither registers properly with frequencies below 50HZ and I really wasn't hearing those really low tones. I used the EQ primarily to boost those frequencies below that 50HZ level to my taste and to me it sounds better. This is where theoretical accuracy and taste part ways.

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#387823 - 01/06/13 01:58 PM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
casey01 thanks for your responses to my last question. I knew that two subs are better than one for evening out the varies frequency within the room and that this would be beneficial. So it sounds like old school options is all there is. Sub placement,volume control, phase control, matching each sub together with each other,along with matching them to the remaining speakers.

I'll be placing one sub on the left mid wall, with the second being placed on the right rear corner where the walls intersect. The way my family room is set up(along with WAF)these are the only options for placement I have. Now with that being said, from what I have read, these are generally considered prime spots for placement. Either mid points on side walls, or front and back walls diagonal to each another. In my set up I'll have one of each.

The subs I'll be going with is Rythmik E-15, with a 550W amp plate. These are servo designed subs(with rave reviews from many owners) putting out clean,clear,crisp sounds. I also locked in before their last price increase. This amp(550W)is offered up for $100 less than the standard 600W amp. Plus they offer up a 10% discount on a multiple sub purchase. I also like the fact that they are 15" drivers as well.
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"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#387847 - 01/06/13 09:38 PM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Gary, the lack of room correction for the sub channel(which is probably the frequency range needing it most)is a major reason why Pioneer receivers aren't among the ones I suggest.

Since you're planning to use two subs in your 9.1 setup, there's a possibility of reducing room effects by proper placement. This generally involves placing them in locations with opposing acoustic properties(i.e., midpoints of opposite side walls or of the front and back wall or in diagonally opposite corners). Using "one of each" however, isn't favorable, since the benefits depend on opposing symmetries.

If you could place one in the left front corner to match the one in the right rear this would be a better idea.
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#387869 - 01/07/13 12:48 PM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Pioneer receivers (at least the ones with Advanced MCACC) do have corrections for the sub channel. They have a 3-band parametric EQ with variable Q, and phase adjustment to align them with the main channels. All of this is auto configured.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#387875 - 01/07/13 02:29 PM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Gary, i have absolutely nothing to add here... But, though i would chime in anyhow.. laugh

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#387876 - 01/07/13 02:36 PM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6768
Loc: PEI, Canada
Well if that's the case, I just want to say that I have nothing to add either. snicker...
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#387936 - 01/08/13 09:43 AM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
colson79 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 20
I just got the same receiver at the end of November and I love it. I am only running 7.1 though as I really have no desire to mess with the front high/wide setup. Mcacc will do the speaker distances and phase control. It also does EQ down to 60hz but nothing lower. I did a lot of research before I bought the receiver because there are a lot of die hard audacity fans out there because of the sub EQ and there are a lot of different opinions of how much the sub EQ really adds to the overall sound quality. Ultimately I decided it wasn't that important to me and when with the Pioneer and I am very happy with it. The only thing I noticed is that when Mcacc finished it's calibration the sub level was set really low. I checked it with my SPL meter and it was about 7 decibels lower than the rest of my speakers. I adjusted it back up manually and now it sounds great.


Edited by colson79 (01/08/13 09:43 AM)

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#387960 - 01/08/13 02:20 PM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Oh you're right Pioneer's standing wave attenuation only goes down to 63 Hz. I forgot about it, because I didn't like how it sounded, so I turned it off, and never looked back. The only settings I use are the channel trims, distance, and phase alignment. The EQ and standing wave (which is also an EQ) sounded too "processed".
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#387997 - 01/09/13 12:06 AM Re: ,in end , I rewally didn't care that much for the [Re: colson79]
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
[quote=co I did a lot of research before I bought the receiver because there are a lot of die hard audacity fans out there because of the sub EQ and there are a lot of different opinions of how much the sub EQ really adds to the overall sound quality. Ultimately I decided it wasn't that important to me and when with the Pioneer and I am very happy with it. The only thing I noticed is that when Mcacc finished it's calibration the sub level was set really low. I checked it with my SPL meter and it was about 7 decibels lower than the rest of my speakers. I adjusted it back up manually and now it sounds great. [/quote]

I also researched as you did and also feel the same way as to the importance of having sub EQ. Yes it might be a nice feature but not on top of my list for sure. What was top priority for me was reliability first and foremost. I was also intrigued by their D3 class amps, drawing less current and then using it far more efficiently than A/B class amp receivers.

This Elite model was mastered at the legendary Air studios of London and certified. The Elite line come highly recommended both through professional reviews, and many owner's on several forums. I have friend with a 15 year old pioneer and has never had any problems. Yes reliability first, but there is a lot to like about this receiver.
_________________________
"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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