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#44822 - 07/05/04 02:34 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
skeleterror Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 4
This has been an excellent read. I'm new to these boards, but I've had a set of M50Ti's for some time now. I've heard them in comparison to some M60Ti's. Not under ideal testing circumstances, but close enough. The result? Not much difference at all. The M50Ti's and M60Ti's sounded very similar to my ear. The only difference I could hear was that voices seemed a little bit more forward with the M60Ti's, but we're talking a small enough degree that unless they were side by side, switching back and forth, I'd never really have noticed.

But, NeverHappy, and others, I have a couple questions:

1) Re: the VP100 and VP150. So far I've only used the M50Ti's in a stereo setup. I've played a few movies this way and I love them for movies as well so I'd have no problem expanding into a surround sound system with the M50Ti's as fronts. From the descriptions of the VP100 and VP150, it would seem that the VP100 may be a better match for the M50Ti's...would you agree?

Also, I've not heard the VP100 or VP150 myself. I've been a little bit hesitant due to some reviews. These reviews have mentioned some possible shortcomings of the VP100 and VP150. Namely:

a) The timbre is not a perfect match. Pans are noticable.

This would bug me a lot. With my previous Polk setup, I ended up not using the center at all because it didn't match the tone of the fronts exactly. Can anyone comment on how well the VP100 or VP150 matches the front Axiom speakers? Do pans sound like one continuous sound, or can you notice when it moves from front, to center, to front?

b) I've also heard that the VP150 lacks good dispersion and that if you move to either side, there is a very large change in timbre.

This would also bug me a lot. So can anyone comment? Can you sit to one side of the VP100 or VP150 and still get a good timbre match, or is there a very noticable difference in sound?

2) NeverHappy, you mentioned that the Monitor speakers had better clarity and such, just lacking bass. How much better are we talking here?

The Axioms happen to fit my price range. Would anyone say I'd be much better off purchasing more expensive speakers? I've always heard that the Axioms are good value. The M50Ti's I have certainly better my old Polks, which were actually about the same price. But how much better do more expensive speakers get? Are we talking a small difference here, or something that is really quite obvious?

Thanks for all the info so far. I look forward to the M60Ti comparison and the M3Ti vs. M22Ti as well.

Also, have you tried using the M22Ti's as you fronts yet? I'd love to hear how you think they compare to the towers.

Thank you again.

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#44823 - 07/05/04 02:39 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
skeleterror Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 4
I have another question as well.

3) I have a projector setup for my home theater (Z2 + Da-Lite high power 92") so using bookshelf fronts is not out of the question. Towers will not work, but the M22Ti's could.

Would anyone consider the sound of the M22Ti's or M3Ti's to be better than the VP100 or VP150 as a center?

Also, can the M22Ti's be put on their side to use as a center?

Also, I have enough power and whatnot to use two bookshelf speakers as a center, running in series or parallel. I'm really only concerned with getting a perfect timbre match across the front and good dispersion so that people can sit to either side and still get the same sound.

I want the best way to achieve this. So does anyone think that a bookshelf or two bookshelves could do this better than the VP100 or VP150? And if so, would you put it/them standing upright or lay them on their sides?

Thank you.

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#44824 - 07/05/04 02:48 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I've never heard the M50s, so I'll not be much help.

Some here prefer using a regular speaker as a center, but I think most would advise NOT placing them on their sides.

In addition to the answers you get here, may I suggest that you email Axiom's resident expert, Alan (alan@axiomaudio.com) and ask him the same questions. He's a good guy, and he'll give you the straight poop about timbre matching and using the 22(s) as centers.


_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#44825 - 07/05/04 03:03 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
sensibull, I will try and answer some of your questions first. I found the 80's not a little to bright but a ton to bright. I like you listen to a lot of guitar based music albeit on the harder side. Joe Satrani, Steve Morse etc etc. When these guys get going the brightness was simply to much for me to take. As I like Axiom I wanted to stick with them. Thus I went with the 50's and have not looked back. They sound a lot like the 80's but much less bright. As for the QS8's, I actually have a set of M3's on order to try out as surrounds. I like to listen to multi channel music a lot and the QS8's are a great surround speaker but don't do it for me with music.

You also mentioned that you are thinking of either the 22's or the 60's. I can't really help you there as I have only heard the 22's and they are nice little speaker. Clean is a word that comes to mind. Would I use them as mains, I doubt it but a nice speaker none the less.

With respect to the VP100 versus VP150, as I said before and at the risk of starting a war in these forums, there is squat for difference with the exception of the VP150 is once again and a little brighter and has a little wider soundstage. They both do what they were made to do well and that is pass dialogue.

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#44826 - 07/05/04 03:14 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
skeleterror, Re: the VP100 and VP150. My own two cents are that yes the VP100 works better with the 50's. I have both the 100 and 150 and when I got my 50's, I went with the 100. I hate to say it but I would agree that the timbre matching could be better on both the 100 and the 150. I can't however say I notice it to much. The panning etc has been relatively accurate as far as I'm concerned.

As for how much better are the Monitor Audios over the Axioms. I think a lot comes down to taste but for me and once again I hate to say it, but it was night and day. The Monitors all the way.

Yes I ran my 22's up front for all of about 10 minutes and put them in the back again. Don't get me wrong they sounded darn good but nowhere near a big enough sound stage for me. I need to hear some bottom end coming from my mains. I also have a fair size room I'm trying to fill. If my room was say half the size, I would look at running 22's as mains.

I'm going to sound like a broken record here but I need to say it again, these are my opinions only based on my listening tastes etc. What I like you may not like etc. Axiom's are a great speaker. Is there better, sure but they will cost a lot more. Monitor Audio comes to mind. If money was no object I would have the Monitor S10's up front in a heartbeat.

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#44827 - 07/05/04 03:15 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
md55 Offline
local

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 284
Loc: Nevada City, CA
I have M50's and and older VP150 with a WTWTW array rather than the current TWWWT layout. I find the timber match to be very very good. Even though my VP150 is supposed to be less able in terms of even dispersion than the current version, I have never noticed any problem or differnce across the listening positions in my setup. From everything I have heard I beleive the VP100 is excellent as well. The reasons for selecting the VP150 would probaly be the size of your room, the distance from speaker to the listener, and the volume at which you like to listen.

Laying bookshelf speakers on their side will result in an uneven dispersal of frequencies on the horizontal axis due the the asymetric driver layout that would result. This may or may not be a problem depending on your room and listening positions. I believe in earlier threads Alan reported an M22 on its side worked quite well for him as a center.

Given you have M50's I think M3's would be the obvious choice for alternate center(s). I beilieve JohnK uses an M3 for a center channel and is very happy with it. I may be wrong about this, that he is using an M2 with M22 mains.

Using two bookshelves for a center in parallel will result in halving the resistance of their load which may or may not be a problem for your receiver depending on what it is and how loud you play it.

Personally, I would not worry much about timber matching and dispersal with a VP100 or 150. These problems seem to be by far the exception in most setups. Try it and if it really doesn't work you are only out the shipping for one speaker.
_________________________
Mark

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#44828 - 07/07/04 03:56 AM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
skeleterror Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 4
Thank you all for the info. I think I will try the VP100 and see how it sounds. I CAN send it back if I don't like it

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#44829 - 07/12/04 11:41 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Well my father-inlaw is still on the fence for his speakers. We did bring in a set of M3ti's that I hooked up as surrounds and I have to say these sound far better then I thought they would going in. Very clean. They remind me a lot of my M22ti's but a little bit more laid back. They work not bad as surrounds either. With multi channel music they (at least to me) walk on my QS8's. They are by far and away a more musical speaker but based on design alone, they should be. Since I stole my father-in-laws Denon 3805 I have found myself listening to a lot of stuff in 5 channel stereo and the M3ti's with the M50ti's up front, work real well together.......I find myself a little tempted to go back to 7.1 just for music...........but that will have to wait until such time as I pay back my father-in-law for the 3805.

I have put together a few of the pieces for his HT set-up. In case anybody is curious he will be running a 34in Sony XBR KD-34XBR960 and a Sony DVP-NS999ES DVD player or a Denon 2200 DVD player. I'm still on the fence for this one. Speakers are yet to come. Receiver is now going to be my trusty Onkyo TX-SR800.

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#44830 - 07/21/04 03:10 PM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
This is taking forever as my father in-law can't make up his mind. Anyway, has anyone here heard the Swan 6.1's? If so I welcome any and all thoughts.

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#44831 - 08/07/04 01:39 AM Re: Odd question 80's vs 60's vs 50's
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Well this is done and over with! My TV goes and I get myself in all sorts of trouble. Anyway, the system for my father in law is now complete..............with some of my Axiom speakers.

I had the chance to pick up some Montior Audio Silver 9i's in Rosemah and I jumped at it. My 50's went to the inlaw and I have some new fronts. Not the way I thought this would go but NeverHappy is dam Happy at the moment! lol

This is the end result of what I put together for him:
34in Sony XBR KD-34XBR960
Onkyo TX-SR800
Denon 2200 DVD player
M50's Mains
VP100
No surrounds as of yet.


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