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#49168 - 06/12/04 09:00 PM Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver menu
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
I'm sure this has probably been covered before, but I've just spent a rainy afternoon with an SPL meter and the Avia disc and I'm not really motivated to do too much extensive research right now. And let me preface this by saying that I'm an incessant tweeker - I have enormous difficulty leaving well enough alone when it comes to my stereo/HT setup.

My problem is this: What component takes precedence when it comes to identifying speaker size, distance, etc.? I have a Pioneer Elite DV45a and a Marantz SR5200. Currently, the Pioneer's speaker distances are set to the defaults (10'), the channel levels are all set to the defaults (fixed output) and the speaker sizes (M22, VP150, QS4) are all set to "small". The Marantz has the actual speaker distances programmed in, and the speaker sizes are all set to "small" as well. I'm using an EP175, so both components have the subwoofer setting "on". The Marantz has a fixed crossover point of 100hz.

My gut is telling me that the Pioneer needs to have all of the speakers set to "large" with the subwoofer setting off. The rationale is this: the Marantz would get the full range signals and do its job of distributing the signals more effectively without any interference from the dvd player. And what about the defaut 10' distance settings on the Pioneer versus what I've actually measured and set on the receiver?
I'm at a loss. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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#49169 - 06/12/04 10:18 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver menu
mhorgel Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Louisville, KY
It depends on how the signal is getting to the receiver. If you have the DVD connected to the receiver via a digital (optical or coaxial) connection, then your receiver is doing all the signal processing, and what you hear will reflect the receiver's settings.

If you have analog connections between your DVD and your receiver (6 or 7 RCA plugs), then your DVD player is doing the signal processing and the receiver is essentially just amplifying the signal. In this case, which is usually only true for players that can play DVD-A's and SACD's, then the DVD's settings will take precedence.

Some folks (myself included) have both kinds of connections. When I watch movies, the signal is transmitted via the digital link to my receiver, and when I listen to DVD-a's and SACD's, the signal gets to the receiver via 5.1 analog cables.

I hope this was clear.

Mark
_________________________
"Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff"

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#49170 - 06/12/04 10:32 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
Thanks for the quick reply. You know, I kind of figured I should have mentioned the connections...

Since you brought it up, let's throw in a few more details: The Pioneer is running a coaxial out to the receiver for regular DVDs, but it's also an SACD/DVD-Audio player, too, so (obviously) I'm sending analog outs to the receiver for multichannel audio. Unfortunately, my M22s (and I do love them) aren't well suited to playing back the handful of SACDs/DVD-As that I own. More to the point, neither the Pioneer nor the Marantz offer suitable bass management. I just picked up the SACD release of Richard & Linda Thompson's Shoot Out The Lights, and I can't adequately express my frustration. That Outlaw gizmo is looking better and better...

Back to business. Let me see if I understand you correctly - since I'm using the digital out for movies, it really doesn't matter what the settings are on the DVD player. The receiver's handling everything? And the only instance where I need to concern myself with the DVD menu is for SACD or DVD-A?


_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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#49171 - 06/12/04 10:49 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
mhorgel Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Louisville, KY
That's the way I understand it. An ICBM or a universal player with better bass management will make a huge improvement.

Mark
_________________________
"Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff"

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#49172 - 06/12/04 10:54 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
Thanks, Mark!
_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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#49173 - 06/13/04 04:54 AM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
davecircle Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 16
dmn23,
a little off topic, but where did you get the "shoot out the lights" sacd?!?

dave

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#49174 - 06/13/04 11:53 AM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
I live in Nashville, so I just went to Tower and picked up a copy. I'd imagine it's readily available on Amazon or a dozen other similar sites. You're a Richard Thompson fan? Don't get me started on RT - they'll kick me off the board for what would surely be a barrage of evangelical ravings about his music and guitar playing.

About the SACD, though - it's a stereo hybrid, so it plays in regular players, too. And even the regular mix has been tightened up considerably, but it's not a heavy-handed remix at all. It was released last Tuesday, so don't feel badly if you didn't know it was available. Of course, there's always the DVD-A of Rumor & Sigh. I'm still on the fence as to whether the whole multichannel thing is just a little gimmicky, but Rumor & Sigh is very nicely done.

If you've never been to his site, I'd highly recommend it. He's taken a very proactive approach to fighting all of the bootlegs in circulation, so there are quite a few "official bootlegs" available on the site that you won't find in stores. The performances are astonishing, particularly on More Guitar. Oh, and there are two more scheduled to be released soon - one comes out next week and another at the end of the summer.
_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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#49175 - 06/13/04 03:19 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
Okay, one more off-topic post and then I promise I'll stop. I just finished listening to More Guitar and if you're a fan of RT, it's the equivalent of a sonic aneurysm. Review here.
_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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#49176 - 06/13/04 03:49 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver menu
Topshelfpro Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 11
Well, my the way my Sony works, if the speakers are set to small then the crossover frequency can be set, if they are set to large, that feature is automatically disabled. You said the Marantz has the crossover defaulted a 100. That seems awfully high to get any base going through that woofer.

Try setting the crossover down to 50 or 60, if that doesn't work then set the speaks to large, actually I would have any quality speaker set to large, I'm thinking small settings are those little scrawny satlelites, and don't even worry about crossing over, let them babies rip and set your set you sub to blend in.

Oh, I thougt bass management was if your DVD is SACD 5.1 and you pop in a regular CD, that will only use 2 channels, so the bass management sends the lows to your sub, in essence a 2.1, and there you have real bass with 2 channels.
If you know diffenrent let me know, I'm pretty easy, I guess that comes with living in the Big EASY!!

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#49177 - 06/13/04 04:23 PM Re: Speaker size setup - DVD menu vs. receiver men
dmn23 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Nashville, TN
Couldn't agree with you more about the 100hz being awfully high. The Marantz is a gorgeous-sounding receiver, particular with music (which is how it spends most of its time being used). Unfortunately, that 100hz crossover point isn't adjustable. So here's what I do: The EP175's crossover point is set at roughly 1 o'clock (a bit over 100hz, if the knob range is at all linear). When I'm listening to music, I'll go in and set the speakers to "large" and let the sub pick up everything below where the M22s roll off. There's a bit of an overlap, but not too much audible bloom. When I'm watching movies, the M22s are set to "small" again.

With respect to your comments about SACD bass management, maybe someone else can chime in and explain it for both of us. What I've noticed is that with SACDs (whether they're 2 channel or multichannel), the sub just disappears. This is less of an issue with DVD-A, but there's still a noticable drop in the feed to the EP175.

I'm in love with the sound of the Marantz, but its internal adjustments are very limited. Mind you, this is only a two year old unit. There's DTS, PLII, 7 channel input, etc., but the fine-tuning options are few and far between. The new units in the Marantz line offer variable crossover points (80, 100 & 120, I think), and maybe 80hz is the magic setting. But the build quality of the Marantz stuff is a little suspect. Not long after my purchase, the amp went up in an alarming lightshow of fire and smoke. Marantz repaired it under warranty, and I've had NO problems since then, but after reading some of the posts on audioreview and some of the other boards out there, it sounds like they're still having issues. It's a shame, too, because it's a terrific sounding piece and it compliments the M22s nicely.

I'd be interested in recommendations from others who are familiar with the "Marantz sound". When the time comes to buy a new receiver, anyone care to suggest a direction or manufacturer? Remember, the emphasis is on music. I'm particularly interested in NAD. The Denon stuff is nice, but just a tad on the sterile side (the last Denon I listened to was a 3802). Anyone have a 3805 yet? The Yamahas have been traditionally regarded as a little warm and lazy, but I'm intrigued by the 2400.


_________________________
M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds

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