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#53709 - 10/04/04 10:01 AM Re: OT: politics
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
You are correct. Predicting what would have happened in this scenario definitely contains a level of speculation. I will give you that. My intent was truly to focus on Kerry's rhetoric. He slings these grand statements around about how he would have done things differently and how Bush has screwed things up. The problem is that his own positions and statement from the past taken with what we now know to be the facts of the situation in Iraq do not remotely support his assertions. Like a peacock, he is prancing around like he is the grand solution with plenty of "I told you so's". The problem is that he didn't tell him so....He wouldn't have been able to do things differently....and he doesn't have a viable solution to this quandry we're in over there.

As usual, he is talking out of his A$$....and he's being allowed to do so unchecked by the media.

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#53710 - 10/04/04 12:23 PM Re: OT: politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
Turbodog, there are lots of variables in such a prediction, but the one constant (if a Pres Kerry had wanted to go to war with Iraq) would be the UN opposition to an invasion of Iraq. The US would never have been able to secure a resolution and mount a coalition like the one in the first Gulf War. A coalition, BTW, which did not include brave Senator Kerry - he was one of the very few to oppose that action against Saddam!

"Things aren't going well over there now, but Bush wants to blindly push ahead anyway. He still thinks he is fighting a traditional war and not a guerrila one."

Once again, I challenge the "big lie" that everybody is repeating. It is not massive insurrection over there but isolated terrorist-type activities by a few thousand bad guys in a country of 25 million. They're brutal and their activities are sometimes spectacular and devastating, but I think the TV news definitely gives people the impression that the situation is worse than it really is.

I'm not sure who deserves the credit for the planning and execution of the Afghan and Iraq operations, but the military has been extremely impressive in both cases. The number of guys we've lost is pretty small as wars go, historically speaking.
The traditional war approach - wide battle lines that advance on the enemy and secure ground inch by inch - is exactly what the military did NOT do in Iraq. I don't know if Rumsfeld deserves the credit, the generals or what, but they're doing an awesome job, IMO. Hopefully, whoever is calling the shots in the military won't be replaced should we have a change of leadership in the White House.

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#53711 - 10/04/04 02:52 PM Safire article
Riffman Offline
local

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 242
Interesting article from Safire in today's NY Times calling Kerry the newest neocon. I recommend that people read it. All of this is supported by reading the debate transcripts.

1. He wants to kill the insurgency in Fallujah and elsewhere. KILL!

2. He will be in Iraq for the next four years asking men "to die for a mistake". DIE!

3. He wants to use the military to influence African nations re Sudan and will commit military to Sudan. NEOCON!

4. Kerry wants to shred multilateralism for N. Korea favoring bilateral talks. GO IT ALONE!

5. Kerry adopts the doctrine of preemption, saying it was our doctrine throughout the cold war. (Now, if this doesn't prove what a dumbass Kerry is then I don't know what does). NEOCON! HELL, APPARENTLY WE'VE BEEN NEOCON FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS!



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#53712 - 10/04/04 03:39 PM Re: Safire article
jorge016 Offline
local

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Minnesota
Safire is as full of it as any other politico turned "journalist". Here's one for you

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-08.htm
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#53713 - 10/04/04 04:39 PM Re: Safire article
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
Here it is in a Link

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#53714 - 10/04/04 04:45 PM Re: Safire article
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
I can't believe that I just unwittingly contributed to the posting of left-wing material....the horror.

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#53715 - 10/04/04 07:21 PM Re: Safire article
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
The last line from that article:

"Under the cover of opinion journalism, he (Safire) is dishing out disinformation. How is that of service to the readers of The New York Times?"

To counter the disinformation the rest of the NY Times dishes out?

Anybody heard of Cynthia Tucker? She's a moron AND a traitor. One of the "America sucks" liberal crowd (or are we now supposed to call them "progressives")? How did she ever get in print?

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#53716 - 10/05/04 10:25 AM Re: Safire article
Riffman Offline
local

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 242
The simple fact is all of these assertions can be backed up by what Kerry said in the debate. Read the transcript.

I think I'm going to skip watching the debates and read the transcripts only. Hearing Bush say "um" a thousand times is quite unpleasant and mortifying...not to mention watching Kerry swing his arms around also.



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#53717 - 10/05/04 10:40 AM Re: Safire article
Riffman Offline
local

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 242
Jorge, I read the Corn article. These days its really tough to distinguish facts over propaganda. We pick our poison.

Wow. I just noticed Tom Hayden writes for this .org. What a poor, uneducated soul he is.

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#53718 - 10/05/04 11:11 AM Re: Safire article
jorge016 Offline
local

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Minnesota
I didn't know Hayden was still kicking around. I don't follow the .org, but have followed Safire since his days in the Nixon administration. I thought the thread needed a bit of balance as far as links. I'll be torn between the VP debate and Twins/Yankee tilt tonight. I'm thinking I'd rather watch Johan (can you say Cy Young)Santana than Cheney/Edwards, although it should be good theater.
_________________________
M22's, VP150, QS4's, HK 630, HSU VTF3-MKII

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