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#53229 - 09/03/04 08:39 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
That's the de rigeur ex post facto justification of the war. The ends justify the means, right? When the "end" happens, we'll have to see about that.
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"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53230 - 09/03/04 08:39 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Well... I am not sure what to say... other than your daughter, as an infidel, would surely have spent time in a rape room in Iraq...
Great choice you are making.

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#53231 - 09/03/04 08:40 PM Re: OT: politics
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
Now THIS is funny. I lived in Georgia for a few years. Zell Miller was the only Democrat that I have ever voted for in my life. I didn't like the Republican candidate (Guy Millner, I think) because he did not appear trustworthy to me. Maybe someone from Georgia can remind me what his "problem" was?

Zell IS the Democrat of the 1950s and 60s. Democrats used to be for the common guy. Now days you need to be a victim of a cause that they support, or they don't want to talk to you.

Also, Georgia politics are just a little different than most other places. Straight shooting, plain talking, no nonsense politics ranging from center to right. The liberal philosophy doesn't have much cohesive representation down there.
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M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

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#53232 - 09/03/04 08:40 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
In reply to:

By the way... another question you never answered... Which democrats were saying "no wmd's" before the Iraq war.



I'm not a Dem, so I don't particularly care. I was against the war from the start.

I'll work on your other challenge. As that it's 6pm Friday prior to a long weekend, and one in which I'm playing in a tennis tournament, I'll likely not get you the quote(s) untill early next week.

I'm heading out of here guys. Let's keep the dialog going.

- Craig (the other one)


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#53233 - 09/03/04 08:41 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
The ironic part... NONE of you guys have answered ONE question... it is nothing more than your own, America is wrong... self loathing.


_________________________
Remember, this is a HOBBY

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#53234 - 09/03/04 08:53 PM Re: Just some more fact checking
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
Allright, I gotta chime in because this Pell grant post just seriously pisses me off. First of all, I got a Pell grant. Now, understand I went to University of Pennsylvania, not a cheap school by any means and I understand that completely. But grants like this made it possible for me to even *dream* of going there. Did I party my four years away and learn nothing? No, I busted my damn a$$ and graduated summa cum laude with two majors because I appreciated that my education was an opportunity I should grab ahold of. What the grants didn't cover I took out in loans myself, or I worked hard to win educational scholarships to help with. When I started life my mother was single with three kids, living in Brooklyn, working hard, and on welfare. (Because my Dad, who is going to vote for Bush not that it is at all relevant, was a complete wastoid and ran the family finances into the ground.) Did my mother twiddle her thumbs and take welfare money as long as she could? Not a chance, she worked damned hard, got the hell out of new york and made a life for herself, and for us three. She worked 10+ hours a day for the last 20 years, never took a vacation, and never bought nice anything for herself. When the letter came saying I was going to be awarded grant money, she was beaming from ear to ear for weeks and telling all her friends. So I don't mind that some of my money goes to helping underpriveleged kids through college.

Now then, since I'm out of school (and fielding a rather hefty set of loans, even considering I was lucky enough to get some grant money) I have a good job and can live a little more comfortably. Don't let yourself think that people who get those grants aren't grateful or that they all waste them of nightclubs. I understand that programs like this made it possible for me to get where I am. There are *far* more people wasting mommy and daddy's money partying at school than there are people wasting their grants.
_________________________
[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

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#53235 - 09/03/04 08:56 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
We're not answering your questions because they're rhetorical. And I'm frankly becoming annoyed by your high-and-mighty stance here. I don't recall anyone personally attacking you -- why do you insist on labeling us (those who don't agree with you) with these platitudes?

This is a debate about ideas. Let's continue without resorting to the personal attack tactics of politicians.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53236 - 09/03/04 09:01 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
I see... asking YOU a question is both rhetorical and "high and mighty" ... That is one thing I love about certain people on the left... tolerance ends when someone either disagrees, or... asks a simple question.
_________________________
Remember, this is a HOBBY

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#53237 - 09/03/04 09:02 PM Re: Body count
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
Civilian deaths increase due to the tactics our Arab friends use: firing at soldiers from crowds of civilians, using civilian homes for barracks/headquarters/munitions dumps, lobbing mortar rounds indiscriminately, setting up roadside bombs and mines, etc...

There has been some talk about the Chechen terrorists also having AlQaeda members in their midst, but regardless of that... What political movement is so important that you deliberately butcher hundreds of children? And where are the protestors from Chechnya that decry such tactics on their behalf?
I think you know full well who the good guys are in this one, but your hatred for Bush and desire to see him ousted are all that matter to you. I'm an atheist too, but I do not feel threatened anymore by those with religous beliefs - more power to them.

BTW, I wasn't really making any argument about Pell grants and inflation - I was just trying to be funny. But since you mention it, IMO there shouldn't be any Pell grants at all. Student loans, community colleges and subsidized state universities are more than adequate to ensure that anyone who wishes to attend college, and strives to make it happen, may do so. They may have to work some. Too many freakin' freebies everywhere.

I know parents of disabled children who are paid in excess of $4000 per month to care for their own kids, given special vehicles to transport them, other high-tech devices that costs thousands of dollars; and many of the families aren't even citizens of this country. My heart ain't bleeding anymore.

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#53238 - 09/03/04 09:06 PM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
Spiff,

I express my condolences to the family of each an every innocent Iraqi citizen that has been killed during the removal of Sadaam. For better or for worse, the lives of those people were sacrificed for the greater good of the Iraqi people. They now have the opportunity to become whatever they want to be, not what one man tells them to be.

And yes, I'm pissed off about it. If Kerry hadn't voted against the GBU-1000 super duper laser kaleidoscope, GPS, self cleaning, self guided, turbocharged, new and improved, 5 kajillion dollar bomb that is accurate to 1/64" of an inch, and kills only the correct target, they wouldn't be dead now, would they?

See? It's STILL all Kerry's fault, and you keep blaming Bush!
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

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