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#54149 - 11/12/04 12:03 AM Re: It goes both ways.
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Adam ... The liberal view of the constitution is that it is "A living, breathing document. We must not look at the words in it, but at the intentions behind those words, and it is open for debate and opinion" ... Thus it is open to opinion, or an opinion piece.

That quote is from Hillary Clinton, and echoed loudly across the "left" in this country.

Too bad you are "out of here", it would be interesting to get some specifics as to why you think Hillary's saying the constitution is open to opinion and my pointing this out is an insult.

This would be like me getting upset with you for saying "As a conservative, you obviously support the death penalty".

The two items she was referring to, by the way, were Roe v. Wade and Separation of church and state.

You will not find abortion as a constitutional right, nor does the constitution state the school prayer is illegal.

Abortion rights were granted under the privacy clause.

And the constitution states the "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Somehow THAT got twisted so a teacher is forbidden to say a prayer in school.

HER justification, again, was that the constitution is open to "opinion" in these matters.


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#54150 - 11/12/04 09:27 AM Re: Politics
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
All.....can we make a new politics thread and allow this one to fall off the front page? It's just plain huge now...
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[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

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#54151 - 11/12/04 10:04 AM Re: An Epitaph for a Dead Monster
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
Had anyone seen the movie Red Dawn (mid-80’s)? Please anyone enlighten me; why those kids are not terrorists?
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#54152 - 11/12/04 11:38 AM Re: An Epitaph for a Dead Monster
Riffman Offline
local

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 242
Because those kids were fighting for representative government and against totalitarianism. Of course, if you would like to sell your body and soul to the state, such relativism is completely understandable.

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#54153 - 11/12/04 12:13 PM Re: An Epitaph for a Dead Monster
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
In reply to:

Had anyone seen the movie Red Dawn (mid-80’s)? Please anyone enlighten me; why those kids are not terrorists?




Yes, I saw the movie. The story line was that the Cuban army with Soviet support defeated the US military, successfully invaded and occupied the United States. A group of high school kids armed themselves and fought against the invading Cubans and Soviets.

They did not go into nurseries and kill 21 infants, they did not strap explosives to themselves and blow up folks on busses, folks in Pizza parlors, or a group of people celebrating the passover meal. Now, the Palestinians may believe, and certainly the majority do believe, that the existence of the Jewish state in Israel is occupation of Arab land, and that such occupation requires, as a national and religious duty, Jihad, armed struggle, an armed struggle which refuses to distinguish between a civilian and soldier, and as to that, refuses to recognize Israel's borders.

In Red Dawn, the Cubans and Soviets invaded the US. That is not the situation between Israel and the Arab world. The UN voted for the partition of Palestine (at that time the term "Palestinian" referred to its Jewish inhabitants) that is the formation of a Jewish state and an Arab state out of the mandate territory.

The Arab world refused to recognize the legimacy of the Israeli Jewish state, and the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Syria invaded Israel in 1948 immediately after the Jewish state announced its existence. The world expected a quick and final solution to the "Israeli" problem, that is, because of the arms embargoes, the fact that Israel lacked meaningful military equipment, the tanks and airplanes of the armies of the 5 Arab nations, no one thought Israel would survive. It did, and the armistice borders were larger than the UN mandate borders.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (a great friend of Hitler) and other Imams and Mullahs urged the Arab population to get out of Israel because the Arab armies were coming and none would be spared. The Israeli authorities urged the Arabs to stay. Many left. After the Arab armies failed in their mission, Israel franchised the Arabs who stayed as Israeli citizens, but did not permit the return of those who left. The Arab states did not welcome the Palestinian refugees, they maintained them in squalid camps, and educated them and their children that the Jews had stolen their land, that the Jews were the offspring of monkeys and pigs, and raised generation after generation of muJIHADin, people who were committed to violence to destroy the Jewish state and regain the land on which Israel now stood. The camps bred hatred and murder - teams of assasins crossed into Israel from 1948 until today for the purpose of killing Jews. There were wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973, Jordan and Egypt (along with Syria) attacked Israel and Israel prevailed and occupied the West Bank and Gaza. The West bank was never a Palestinian state. It had been part of Jordan which itself was part of the partition of Palestine. Gaza was not a Palestinian state, it was part of Egypt. Israel tried to trade land for peace. Egypt did not want Gaza and Jordan wouldn't take back the West Bank.

Israel would not negotiate with terrorists, or Arafat. The refusal of Egypt and Jordan to take back the areas in which the Palestinian refugee camps were located forced Israel to engage with the Palestinians.

Prior to 1973, Israel was 8.5 miles wide at its narrowest point. After the war Israel refused to go back to its former borders because they were essentially indefensible.

The US attempted many times to broker a deal. In Camp David Israel offered the Palestinians 97% of the land occupied by Israel as a result of the war. Arafat refused, the violent intifadah followed.

I take it this post is relevant to your question and you were not commenting that you merely thought Red Dawn was a cool movie.
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Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#54154 - 11/12/04 02:50 PM Re: An Epitaph for a Dead Monster
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

you merely thought Red Dawn was a cool movie



hell yes man!!!

i like when c. thomas howell(later of soulman fame), shoots his buddy for swallowing the tracer bug, and giving up their position. i would have done the same thing.

WOLVERINES!!!!!!

bigjohn
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#54155 - 11/12/04 05:34 PM Re: An Epitaph for a Dead Monster
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
"All that hate's gonna eat you up, kid"

....."It keeps me warm."

Great movie that I've obviously seen WAY too many times.

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#54156 - 11/12/04 05:57 PM Re: An Epitaph for a Dead Monster
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Red Dawn ... a NEW standard in cinema greatness...

Lea Thompson with pouty lips and a machine gun was fun, too...
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#54157 - 11/12/04 06:29 PM Re: OT: politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
WOW, I didn't realize I was so widely despised!

I even put smiley faces on my last post!

Seriously though, I just call 'em like I see 'em. Maybe what you guys are feeling is that "cognitive dissonance" pmb previously refered to - how people feel when they find out they're wrong?

BTW, you cannot argue with me about politics - I majored in Political Science! I AM A SCIENTIST!!! LOL

So, as a butt-kissing, yes-man simpleton from Jesusland - I admit my constant unwavering support of the United States of America, its Constitution and my fellow citizens. I'm guilty as charged - America's the best and can do no wrong. Viva Zapatos!

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#54158 - 11/12/04 06:42 PM Re: OT: politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I am also a political science major, Pi Sigma Alpha national political science honor society, another SCIENTIST, and I've stayed in a Holiday Inn. I thought it was Viva Pizza ...
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Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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