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#55676 - 07/26/04 09:50 AM Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
jagberry Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 3
I just purchased an Onkyo TX-SR601 receiver and a pair of M22ti bookshelf speakers for my medium-sized living room. While I await the arrival of my speakers, I'm considering splurging for one more speaker component, and I'm not sure whether I'll get more immediate use/enjoyment out of a subwoofer, or a center channel speaker. So, I guess my question for all you axiom audiophiles is: if you were building a music/home theater system one component at a time, which speaker would be your next purchase after the M22ti bookshelf beauties? I can only afford to splurge on one component right now, so as between the center (VP150) and the sub (EP175), which will give me more bang for my buck? Thanks!

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#55677 - 07/26/04 10:18 AM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
the beauty of HT is that everyone has their own opinion.. with that being said, i would disagree with protech.

the M22's are lacking in the low end, and a sub comes highly recommended by most people that own the 22's. plus, i think that a sub is essential to get the 'true' LFE theater experience. the sub is what, in my opinion, brings the whole movie watching experience together.

also, the 22's are supposed to have a great soundstage on their own, so you may not need the center channel right off.. and you might wanna look at the HSU STF-1, or STF-2 sub.. you might find them at the same price as the EP175, and they have a little better frequency response.

i am in no way saying protech is wrong, i am simply expressing my opinion, which happens to be different than his. there is no 'right' order in which to build your HT. it always comes down to personal preference.

to get an idea of what you like, go to a local stereo shop, and have them cut the sub off and on, then cut the center channel off and on, and see which sound you prefer.

bigjohn
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#55678 - 07/26/04 11:44 AM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
sidvicious02 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 973
Loc: Brandon, Manitoba
hmmm, maybe i'll offer another different way to look at this. How far apart would the M22s be? If there is a large distance between them, maybe it would be prudent to purchase the center channel first as it would help create a more realistic front soundstage. On the flip side, if they will be located close together, you can use a "phantom center channel" setting on your receiver and i'm sure the M22s will fill in admirably. (IMO, i'd probably go for the sub first as that will allow more enjoyment of music too).

good luck
Scott
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#55679 - 07/26/04 12:04 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8288
Loc: Tacoma
I've got to say, as much as I enjoy ProTech's avatar, I'll respectfully disagree also.

You did not say what your music/HT ratio is. But John is on-point (as usual) about the sub. You cannot get a full home theatre experience without a sub. You can set your receiver for a "phantom" center channel to fill in and center the dialog, but you can't get the frequency response without a sub.

And I think music listening will benefit more from a sub also. Most music is recorded in stereo, so the engineer was thinking of full-range two-channel. You could make a case that adding a center will actually muddy-up the music imaging, and it certainly will not extend the bass response.

But, as others observed, a lot depends on your room, listening habits, placement, and personal preference. You asked for opinions; mine is free, and worth the price charged.

You might also pose the question to other, more expert resources, like the Axiom staff.

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#55680 - 07/26/04 12:11 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
When we did our M-22 / ELT-Cse test, it was all in two channel with a subwoofer... and the M-22's with a subwoofer are really good. You would not use a phantom center unless you had rear speakers... otherwise, use stereo...
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#55681 - 07/26/04 12:31 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a
TonyM Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 137
Hello Jagberry,

Hope you are well.

With a set of bookshelf speakers you will not have a full range setup when listening to stereo music.

I own a set of M2i that I use as my center channel. I have also used them as mains without the sub while listening to music, although they are very clear from 80Hz on up, they sound very small without the sub on. When listened to with the sub they sound fantastic, and crossover beautifully at 80Hz. The M22s are very similar in frequency response, but go a little deeper and louder. If you listen to stereo music you will want a sub before the center channel.

Check out my thread on the M2i's as a center channel, if that route appeals to you.

As far as a sub overpowering the M22s, that is not going to happen, unless it is not calibrated properly.

My recommendation for a sub in your price range is an SVS 25-31PCi 320 watt cylinder sub +/-3db 25Hz-100Hz.

Later,

TonyM

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#55682 - 07/26/04 12:40 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8288
Loc: Tacoma
Craig, thanks. You're right, of course. I was obviously extrapolating to the difference between moving from 4.0 to 5.0 or 4.1 rather than moving from 2.0 to 3.0 or 2.1.

The M22's are flat down to about 60Hz. I guess I'd still suggest that the original poster would gain more enjoyment immediately from all types of sources by covering that 20-60Hz range than by adding more drivers across the front. Nobody ever said he was going to STOP at 2.1 or 3.0; he just wanted opinions about what might be best, next.

Pro_Tech, how about if we just agree to disagree?
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#55683 - 07/26/04 02:13 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
jagberry Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 3
[You did not say what your music/HT ratio is. ]

It's probably 50-50. In response to the question about the placement of the bookshelf spkrs, they will sit on the axiom SS16 stands (16" height), and will rest approximately 8-9 feet apart, one on each side of a t.v. wall unit.

Thanks to all for the very interesting feedback -- have to say I think the thread went off the deep end a bit, but I value each and every on-point opinion that was posted.

As it stands, I think I'm leaning towards getting the sub next. I have an old, but decent, center channel that I can use to play around with until I upgrade it, and a new sub, I think, will give my system some needed oomph for enjoying music and movie soundtracks.

Thanks again!

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#55684 - 07/26/04 02:14 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17775
Loc: NoVA
The next question being, of course, what sub to get! I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback on that one. Craigsub? Over to you...
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#55685 - 07/26/04 02:23 PM Re: Building a new home theater system 1 step at a time
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8288
Loc: Tacoma
Yeah, "oomph", that's the ticket! I think the world in general has far too little oomph. And gumption. Moxie seems to be sliding as well. Don't even get me started on Savvy.

I think you'll like the M22's.
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