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#61436 - 09/25/04 05:05 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

I keep seeing 'Burr-Brown' audio chipsets referred on the higher end CD players. Is this something I should be looking for?




Yes you should be! As a matter of fact I would go as far as to say make it a requirement! Look for Burr Brown, I do on almost everything I own. There are some good DAC's out there but I have always been a Burr Brown fan.

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#61437 - 09/25/04 05:34 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
joninflorida Offline
local

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Lake Worth Florida
you might find this link helpful, it hits on quite a few points http://www.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1843
_________________________
Sunfire amps & processor Sammy 50" Crown amp 2-SVS SS Maple Ultras, Axiom 60s,22s,150cc, QS8s

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#61438 - 09/25/04 08:24 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3820
Loc: Up yonder
Thanks again for all your input, this is getting quite educational.

That's odd that the web sight doesn't list DVDA on the 940. I was looking at the CX 1 also, but it doesn't list SACD. I think I'll call and ask if it does. The CX 1 has the Brown Burr and weighs 23 pounds where the 940 weighs 13 pounds. Must be a stout unit.
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#61439 - 09/25/04 08:45 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
joninflorida Offline
local

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Lake Worth Florida
it's kinda weird, I don't know if this is more prevelent with Yamaha, but if you check my RXV-1400 amp. web-stes etc. It shows that it does NOT have dolby pro logic llx, but mine and later models do, I undersatand that Yamaha will "upgrade" the earlier models that did not at no charge at a factory authorized dealer. Seems like timing and all these changes (technology) occur quicker than they make/market these things, I am just happy as hell to still have power!! right now.
_________________________
Sunfire amps & processor Sammy 50" Crown amp 2-SVS SS Maple Ultras, Axiom 60s,22s,150cc, QS8s

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#61440 - 09/25/04 08:49 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
yeah, take care, dude. Looks pretty hairy over there...
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#61441 - 09/25/04 10:30 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10304
Mike, I'll repeat my suggestion of the Sony megachanger. Next, whether the DACs are made by Burr-Brown is no longer of any particular significance. Ten years or so ago Burr-Brown(now a division of Texas Instruments)was considered a clear leader in the field by many. Now however, as Alan and others have pointed out, DACs are a mature technology. Although TI will supply excellent Burr-Brown DACs to manufacturers in quantity for as little as $1 each, other suppliers such as Analog Devices and Cirrus Logic are equally good. Although some of the old Burr-Brown mystique still exists in some circles, there's no factual basis for it, and it shouldn't be a factor in a purchasing decision.
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#61442 - 09/25/04 10:51 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Dam did I just get kicked in the teeth again! Every time I turn around tonight I got somebody posting that what I just posted is BS!

Take it for what it's worth, stick with Burr Brown as it's still of significance for some................although it appears they dwell outside of this forum.

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#61443 - 09/25/04 10:59 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
Eh, don't stress on it. That's what JohnK always posts. Although you and I are often on different sides of the issue, it's still nice to have people with differing views on the forums.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#61444 - 09/25/04 11:05 PM Re: New DVD/CD player?
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Stress? Nah I stress when I'm out of beer or Doritos. The stuff in here is fun. We are all armchair experts.

I would however like to point something out that drives me nuts. No disrespect to Allan, but just because he said it, does not make it a fact.

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#61445 - 09/26/04 01:28 AM Re: New DVD/CD player?
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Well, I'll defend Alan (one L - last name Lofft - two F's) here... I read his articles in the trade mag Sound & Vision Canada long before I knew about Axiom. The fact he was standing behind what Ian was doing was a big decision in my trying out the Axiom brand sound unheard.

As a long time reader of his, he's never once written anything I didn't believe or didn't have proven to me in time.

On the other side of the coin, I was playing with digital audio when IBM was still selling PCjrs with a Charlie Chaplin lookalike - built a basic audio digitizer out of a 0820ADC in the Commodore 64 days, there's really nothing to analog-digital or digital-analog ICs - ADCs are actually a bit more finicky than DACs. As for a certain chipset being light years ahead of another brands... one only has to cut through marketing hype and remember what the circuit does. A basic 16-bit DAC takes a digital number between 0 and 65535 and translates it into a voltage (say for simplicity 0-1v).

There are error-diffusion and oversampling DACs as well. Oversampling DACs simply take adjacent samples (or a series of samples) and extrapolate intermediate values between the actual sampled values. Technically, in the purest sense, this is distortion, but the manufacturers mean well - and it works - to a point. Put it this way - you see your wife at 3 - she's happy, at 6 - she's happy, at 9 - she throws a pan at you. Using interpolation, you'd say she was happy all the way from 3 til 6 (when really, she might have cried at a chick flick and gotten mad when she stubbed her toe, then realized she stubbed her toe on her birthday present from you, which made her happy again - all of which your interpolation missed), then you'd say she was 33% angry at 7, 66% angry at 8 on her way to becoming 100% angry at 9. None of which may even be remotely true - you're just connecting the dots between known samples. Not the worst technology in the world, but not exactly something to write home about either.

The error-diffusion type ICs use various mathematical equations (like 1 bit delta-sigma) to pass along the remainder of each sample to the next sample, this happens at the sub-sample level (less than a 1/65535 of total amplitude in a sample by definition!) so we're talking about a very minimal level of audio "sweetening". If you can hear the difference between samples at say binary 1111111111111111 and 1111111111111110, then call the Guinness people.

The bigger question SACD-P owners should be asking is "why am I even allowing them to screw me this way?"... we finally get a digital datapipe between components and receivers in TOSlink and SPDIF - then they panic about perfect digital copies and revert back to 50+ year old analog technology? Next they'll bring back the cassette tape so there will be generational loss with each copy.

Bren R.

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