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#7106 - 12/03/02 09:11 PM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
I bow to wisdom of the veterans. All input is much appreciated.


Much thanks;
Saturn
_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#7107 - 12/04/02 02:32 AM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
jkohn Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 96
In reply to:

And what of receivers that can direct Bass to both the fronts and the sub?


Well, the problem with that is that you're essentially doubling those bass frequencies by having both your sub and your mains. If you like the way that sounds, fine; but that's not how the source material was originally mixed to sound, you're basically adding extra bass to the overall mix.

Now some people would say "who cares, I like it that way." I say fine, more power to them; after all audio is supposed to be for enjoyment. But if your goal is to get the most accurate playback possible, I wouldn't recommend it.

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#7108 - 12/04/02 02:55 AM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
subs Offline
regular

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
Hi JohnK-

Thanks for your response and for reading through those posts...I'll set my speakers back to SMALL!

Bruce


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#7109 - 12/04/02 03:34 PM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
Although many in these forums continue to only suggest one course of action for setting up a subwoofer (turning the mains to small and the sub cross all the way up allowing the receiver to handle the crossover typically around 80hz), i think home users should be given the other options and allow themselves to make the decision on what sounds best.
The "right" way of doing it is the way in which it sounds best to the individual user and no one should be told otherwise.

With that in mind, i do not prefer this 'standard' method for setting up a sub and i personally use my mains set to 'large' in the receiver with a reduced sub crossover.
The integration is smooth and the bass is taken up more by the main speakers and less by the subs. Only much lower sounds are enhanced by the sub in the range where the mains do begin to trail off. For me, this works well for both HT and music applications since i'm not big on having the huge sub sound play music but i like a good boom for explosions and thunder.
For an older post on sub crossovers chek out:
link to older post where sub crosses were also discussed
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#7110 - 12/05/02 11:55 AM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
Pinoy Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 115
Loc: Kansas City, Missouri
These are your equipment and you should set it up the way it suits your needs.

I followed the recommended setting (small with xover at 80 hz and 0 db on the receiver and 150 hz on the sub) because I did not want to strain my receiver and front speakers playing lower frequencies. I like the sound both in stereo mode and movies. In the evening if the sub tends to be too loud, I just reduce the volume. Although M80's can be set to large, the 12" sub is better equipt to handle this task than the 6.5" drivers of the M80's.

This way I also avoid the need to shift from large to small and vice versa when I play music or watch movies.

I compare it with hauling 200 lbs of bricks. I can use my car and it will definitely work but my pick up truck is better equipt to handle the task. Of course there could be other reasons why I might still want to use my car.

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#7111 - 12/05/02 12:11 PM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
subs Offline
regular

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
Hi Chesseroo-

Would setting my front speakers to LARGE (I have a pair of M22ti's) cause any damage to either my receiver or speakers? I've always been told to set them to SMALL and to let my subwoofer offload the receiver for driving the bass since it does a better job with the bass anyways.

Thanks!

Bruce


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#7112 - 12/05/02 09:14 PM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
Subs, in answer to your question, setting your M22s to large will not damage them or your receiver. It simply allows the speakers to play their entire range of sound frequencies rather than starting to roll them off at the receivers crossover point (typically 80Hz).
The idea is to produce as wide a range of sound as smoothly as possible (e.g. no 'holes' in the sound frequencies from the absolute lowest to the absolute highest that your ear can hear).
However, given that you own M22s and a sub, i would recommend that you follow the advice to what JohnK and others had suggested (set M22s to small and use the subwoofer as you main speaker for bass).

For larger speakers, the towers, i have a different preference.
I've auditioned the M22s but i settled on buying the M60s instead. The full tower M60s (and of course the M80s and possibly some of the towers below the M60 as well), have a much greater bass extension than the M22s.
Hence, my M60s can play sound frequencies much lower than the M22s without such a large dropoff higher on the sound scale. Because the M60s have this capability, i've tested my preferences for bass by using the subwoofer for sound between 20Hz and 80Hz (approx.) and using the M60s for the sounds in this same range.
I did not like the sound of the subwoofer during music when it was allowed to play those frequencies right up to 80Hz. I preferred the tighter and less pronounced bass of the M60s as did my wife. But of course we still wanted to have some super rumbles during home theatre movie watching so the subwoofer still has its use.
If i have my M60s set to large, and they play sounds lower on the sound scale (e.g. lets say around 35 to 45Hz) before beginning to roll off (a function of their limitations), then THAT is where i would like to have the sub be used as a further extension of the M60s and to add some oomph in that extreme lower end.
So after some tweaking for sound in music primarily, i've now set my M60s to large and then used the crossover dial on the subwoofer to control how much or how little my M60s and subwoofer mix those low end sounds. At the present time my sub cross is set at about 50Hz with the gain (volume) at the 10 oclock mark and i find it integrates very nicely with the M60s.

Of course you can also try this with your M22s but when i played around with this configuration, i did not find that the M22s could produce sound frequencies quite low enough and well enough to make a difference whether i used the small or large settings but i did find their sound style to be very equivalent otherwise to the M60s.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#7113 - 12/06/02 12:09 AM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
With my M22 for music soundstage was not as good when crossover at 80 or even at 60. You loose the openness of the soundstage. So for music I switch the crossover off on reciever and set the speakers to large. And set my sub to 55Hz since the M22 goes only down to about 50 hz. For movies I switch my crossover of the receiver at 60 and set the speakers for small. A pain in the butt but it gives both modes the best sound quality. Whats 30 seconds to change settings.


_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#7114 - 12/06/02 10:11 AM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
I understand your thinking here Saturn in having the music sound a certain way that just doesn't cut it with the sub crossing at 80Hz.

Although my reasons were a bit different, it is easy to see why i've gone with the single setting route. I wanted to find a good crossover integration between my M60s and the EP350 for both applications. I did not want to have to make changes each time i played a dvd or a cd. I'm too impatient.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#7115 - 12/06/02 11:33 AM Re: M22ti and LARGE setting for DTS
drew8mc Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 14
Loc: Philly
Have any of you tried using the high level inputs on your subs, then selecting "no subwoofer" on your reciever. This allows you the flexibility of setting the crossover exactly where you want it. You don't have to change anything when you go from movies to music.

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