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#71645 - 12/12/04 09:24 PM Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
Axiom doesn't build a bad speaker...but there are much better "values" out there in good used "hi-end" product (Thiel, Sonus Faber, Quad, etc...) for what you would pay for a new pair of top end "mid-fi" Axiom's. I bought a pair of the M80i's (out of curiosity) and got rid of them...they are ok for the undiscerning listener, but if you want macro-dynamic detail, depth and imaging the Axioms just don't cut it. I broke them in for 6 months and they never opened up. They sounded like every other mass market speaker I have ever heard: Just ok. My Krell mono-blocks did manage to get the M80i's up to some impressive SPL's, but in the end the Axioms just lacked the ability to get inside the music and involve me. I set my Thiel's back up and breathed a sigh of relief: Now thats how Miles Davis is supposed to sound.



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#71646 - 12/12/04 09:43 PM Re: Huh?
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
ok....


nobody ever said they were the last word in High Fi speakers. I guess for me i like to listen to the music kinda loud and be gruven along instead of worrying about macro dynamics.
_________________________
Haoleb's Audio/DIY Website

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#71647 - 12/12/04 09:56 PM Re: Huh?
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Just curious, why are you comparing new Axioms to used products from other vendors. Wouldn't comparing to the relative value of used Axioms be more appropriate ?

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#71648 - 12/12/04 09:58 PM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I haven't heard M80s. I have auditioned M60s, owned M50s, M22s, M3s, and M2e's. My favorite of these Axioms are the M3Tis.

I use Michaura M665 towers, M66 mini towers and M55 bookshelf speakers (very much like Axiom M60, M50 and M22s in that they use the same drivers, but the Merak/M2Ti's 3/4" titanium tweeter.) I really like Axioms, but I love the Thiels, Reference 3a de capo mm's, Sonus Faber Cremonas, Quads, Maggies ... and you are right, these speakers are IMHO better at reproducing music and involving the listener than the Axioms I have had and those I've auditioned.

I think the Axioms are better than most mass produced speakers - certainly better than the very expensive Infinity Composition Overture III towers I used to own. The only mass produced speakers I think are as good as Axioms are the Polks - also great speakers for a fair price.

The virtue of Axiom speakers has been the balance between high quality sound reproduction and great price. As prices creep up, and competitive speakers improve, the gap between Axioms and the mass market speakers is closing.

I wish Axiom well, and hope they can raise their game without raising their prices. Here's hoping!!

My great hope for Axiom? An Axiom speaker as good as a Thiel 2.4 for the price of an M80, an Axiom bookshelf as good as a Reference 3a de capo mm for the price of some M60s. I'd place my order now.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71649 - 12/12/04 10:57 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Ooooh! I'd love to see those Thiels hooked up to Krell mono amps. You have a link to your theater page so we can see pics?
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71650 - 12/12/04 11:25 PM Re: Huh?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10304
Unfortunately, as he illustrated in this earlier post, Clinton appears to again have mounted that chip on his shoulder and for some reason feels a need to gratuitously insult Axiom owners with silly language such as "undiscerning".
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#71651 - 12/12/04 11:41 PM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Has he been here before?
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71652 - 12/12/04 11:58 PM Re: Huh?
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 867
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
John:
We are dealing with a 'master of the obvious' here. People like this just love to hear themselves talk. Talking about getting a good deal on used high end speakers is like buying a used BMW, Porsche or Mercedes. Why pay full price if you don't have to? I would have loved a pair of B & W 703's but for around $5,100 Cdn my M60's were a steal! Now I have money left over for a new t.v. For some of us, money doesn't grow on trees!
Season's Greetings to all proud Axiom owners!


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#71653 - 12/13/04 12:03 AM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
good point Johnk, but it does appear he received his GED. Spelling Onkyo like Oknyo, twice in the same thread, starting a thread with Huh?, and calling Axiom's Mid-Fi, tells me all I need to know about this dude...Totally Awesome Man, Let me tell ya what Melba Toast is packin....

I guess every tree has a bad apple...

_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71654 - 12/13/04 02:21 AM Re: Huh?
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
Saying Polk LSis crushed the M22s (not necessarily exactly his words.) Oh yes, we've been here before.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#71655 - 12/13/04 05:34 AM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
slownlo:

If you do not have a Web page showcasing your set-up, how about just posting some pics?
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71656 - 12/13/04 09:14 AM Re: Huh?
romeo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 45
I just went to you web site. It looks great. Are you created all these yourself? Is it difficult to construct such a site? I'm interested to do one similiar. Can you PM me how to start if you have time?

Considering about the thread, I think we don't have to take serious consideration about the spelling (to the benefit of the doubt), we all have typing mistakes. This is a free world and we respect individuals to voice their opinions. It's never easy to compare an apple with an orange but people like to do this anyway. I think most of us are 'smart' enough to read, digest the information, and have our own judgement. If 'one' or 'few' speakers are so 'good', then why there are still so many speaker manufacturers around.

There are always 'better' speakers with 'better' price outside. If we keep chasing, we won't be enjoying the music. We'll become the slave of 'technology' and much concern on how others see us and lead us to a never ending black hole.

Life is short, as long as you're happy and not doing any harm to others, then why bother ?

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#71657 - 12/13/04 11:39 AM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I, too, just checked out your web site, Randy. Very nice indeed. Good looking, and easy to read.

Enjoyed your poll on "famous movie lines." Of those you listed, I voted for "I'll have what she's having" from When Harry Met Sally. Great line delivered by the real Mother of the movie's director (Rob Reiner), which makes her Carl Reiner's wife.

You must be a relatively young man. My all time favorite movie line is the last line of Casablanca (1942). "Louis (pronounced "Louie")! I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship." To those unfamiliar with the movie, it probably isn't all that striking. But, if you watch the movie, and notice the intricate, and uncertain relationship between Louis and Rick, it is the most perfect and delightful ending line since "Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn" which is another pretty good ending line.

Just realized that you and nickbuol are both in Des Moines. Must be nice to have a fellow Axiom owner, and forum member in the same town. There's an Axiom owner about 40 miles from me, in a far Eastern suburb of Cleveland, but he's not a forum participant.



_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71658 - 12/13/04 12:19 PM Re: Huh?
BBIBH Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Canada
I think that the original poster is entitled to his opinion, but certainly does not score points for being objective in his review, or presentation. He does not provide any real details, and according to the thread he participated in (as referenced by JohnK) seems to rely more on his "friends" and their opinions.

I can accept that someone believes they are good or bad....

I agree that there are better speakers than Axiom - I own a set. However the world of audio is not precise in that you can categorically state Mfg'er A is #1, and Mfg'er B is #2..... as an fyi, I listened to Krell, and bought the Simaudio Moon - it was much better IMHO. 2x6 mentions Reference 3a as "bookshelf", but they are the best speaker I have ever heard, or owned - with the possible exception of the Castle Winchesters....again IMHO.

The poster appears intent on "stirring the pot".....
_________________________
Regards,

Mike

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#71659 - 12/13/04 01:16 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
Thanks Jack, well if you call 37 young Heck I just got a notice about my 20th High School reunion next year, that is sad... Thanks about the website, actually it is from a free online web hosting company. You are a little limited on what you can do, but heck it is free. Yep Nick and I live in the Des Moines area, I actually live in a small suburb south of Des Moines, and Nick lives in and eastern suburb (wrong side of the tracks)

I do love old movies, and am familiar with the ones you mention. I also love older decades of music (pre 60's) My dad was a professional singer back in the 50's and early 60's. He actually was on Ed Sullivan in 59 with the Army Entertainment Show, he was friends with Steve Lawrence...Randy

_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71660 - 12/13/04 03:19 PM Re: Huh?
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 832
Loc: Illinois.
Those "tin ears" you have must get cold, now that it's winter up there.....huh?
_________________________
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"

(Larryism)

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#71661 - 12/13/04 04:30 PM Re: Huh?
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2812
Loc: Rochester, NY
I agree Randy - very nice site. Wish I had the capacity/knowledge to do a site. Maybe when I retire.

By the way, Jack calls EVERYTHING young, so 37 isn't in the twilight zone. Matter of fact, he's got ties that are older than you are.

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#71662 - 12/13/04 04:37 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
The site I used is Freewebs.com it is very simple to use, and they have an online website created tool, that people with no experience can use to get started easily. I do have experience with html and other web design software's, but I just wanted something I could whip up real fast...
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71663 - 12/13/04 04:46 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
And what, pray tell, is "macro-dynamic detail"? I'll tyr to dissect the phrase. Macro means large, and stands in opposition to micro. Dynamic means changing, and stands in opposition to static. So macro-dynamic must mean "changes on a large scale." Taken all together, the phrase "macro-dymanic detail" must mean something that indicates a change, be it in volume, or tone.

So, are you telling me that you were unable to even hear the Axioms? Because even a $1 paper-cone driver wired to an amp via paperclips would we capable of "macro-dynamic detail."

I guess the point I'm trying ot make is you should try to avoid idiotic buzzwords. They make no sense whatsoever.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#71664 - 12/13/04 05:08 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
I had Macro and Micro Economics in college, but I must have slept through the Macro Dynamics class, or been at the bars, as I don't recall that course.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#71665 - 12/13/04 06:45 PM Re: Huh?
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Don't know, but a google search turned up this site. They must make great speakers, the audio sounded first rate even on my PC speakers

http://www.martendesign.com/english/index_eng.html

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#71666 - 12/14/04 12:41 AM Re: Huh?
sonicfox Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 902
Loc: Davenport, Iowa, USA
LOL! That reminds me of the time when I posted awhile ago about the Bose Wave radio informercial I saw. Their demonstration was pretty impressive! It sounded exactly like Herbie Hancock playing live from my 19" tv speakers! Like I mentioned before, anyone who wishes to audition a pair of Axiom M60's, I'm willing to send you a recording of them!
_________________________
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Marantz SR6003
Samsung LN52B550
Oppo DV-980H
Insignia NS-WBRDVD

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#71667 - 12/16/04 09:27 AM Re: Huh?
Michael_A Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 418
In reply to:

I had Macro and Micro Economics in college, but I must have slept through the Macro Dynamics class, or been at the bars, as I don't recall that course.




Hehe. You were taking the silly thing, and didn't even realize it.

Macro Economics - The study of the "big picture" - getting up, going to work (or school), using paycheck to party.

Micro Economics - The study of the "little details" like international trade, monetary policy, banking, etc. that allows the macro thingy to work. - the stock market WAS after all, invented by a bunch of guys that just wanted a bigger paycheck to party with.
_________________________
M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.

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#71668 - 12/16/04 01:28 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
funny thing is, I work as an IT System Administrator for one of the largest Insurance/Financial/Investment companies in the World , not in a business capacity, ha ha...it always works out that way. Daddy was wrong when he said "Son, now I want you to go to college and study business, that way you can do about anything" Well I did get my BA in Business, but partied most of the time on the 5-yr program...he he Seems so long ago, heck my High School 20th reunion is coming up next year, I am getting old. Hope Jack is not copying this


_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71669 - 12/19/04 03:02 PM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
I think the only person I managed to "gratuitously" insult was you... and whats even sillier than my use of the word "discerning" is your "chip" that requires you scour these posts as the self appointed message board police, obviously attacking anyone who doesn't praise Axioms as you see fit. Seek therapy JohnK...it may help.

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#71670 - 12/19/04 03:03 PM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
And I would rather worry about macro-dynamics(and be Gruven) than how loud it can get....whats the point? )

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#71671 - 12/19/04 03:19 PM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
Obviously a man who can think for himself (The staus quo is typical). I bought the M80's and I was very disapointed thats all. These folks that get insulted by the experiences of others are truly a lesson in psychology... why would I be insulted if someone said Theils don't quite do it for me? So what? JohnK can crap in a cup and drink it for all I care...I think he likes to hear himself talk just as much as the next person. It kinda gives me an idea of what would happen to a minority that moves into his neighborhood. Geez, what a xenophobe...

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#71672 - 12/19/04 03:41 PM Re: Huh?
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
So nice to have you visit. Good bye.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#71673 - 12/19/04 03:41 PM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
We don't get insulted by by the experience of others. We get insulted when we are referred to as "undiscerning listeners." Nobody cares if you were dissatisfied with the Axioms. We just don't like it implied that we are foolish if we are. Seems relatively reasonable to me.

That you are just here to insult us is corroborated by the thread you started more than a year ago where you stated "The Axioms are nice, but anyone with a trained ear can hear the difference." So, you seem willing to dish it out but turn to whimpering, and MORE insulting, when you reap what you sew.

A xenophobe is one who is afraid of the foreign, or strange. While I'll admit you're strange, trust me, no one is afraid of you.

Now, prove me wrong by composing a reasonable retort without insulting anybody.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71674 - 12/19/04 05:52 PM Re: Huh?
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10666
Loc: Central NH
Slownlo, if you really don't see how your original post in this thread would be insulting than you don't have the capability at looking at anyone beyond your own shoes. Your original post is so "wrong" in so many ways, I chose to simply ignore it rather than respond. I'm all for intellectual, stimulating, civil disagreements with others, but your post was, to me, just a trolling opportunity to pi** people off.

You say that there are better values out there in used speakers. That's apples and oranges. Comparing a speaker designed at an $800/pair price point with one that was maybe designed with a $4k/pair price point is pointless. Hey, let's twist it around and say that a used pair of Axioms are better than a new pair of Radio Shack speakers. Well, duh. What's the point?

When you say that you bought Axioms and found that they were only OK for the "undiscerning listener" you are insulting everyone who likes their Axioms. What a snot! Maybe you do have ears that are more "golden" than others, who can tell and who cares? Maybe you don't, and it's just a matter of preference. Maybe you hear a difference with $1k speaker wires that others don't hear. Good for you! As a professional in video production and one who works in the field daily, it's likely that I see artifacting in an image that by far the majority of people will never see, but you know what? I don't imply that they are "undiscerning viewers" or berate them for not seeing what I see. And I don't call them foolish for spending $129 on a 13" monitor instead of $1400. To each his or her own.

There's nothing wrong with your having tastes that might be more refined (in your opinion) than others here. If someone had posted a question "How will Axioms compare to Thiels", I'd value your opinion like anyone else's. But to start a topic to simply announce that Axioms don't meet your standards and that we're all somehow a little less refined than you because we DO like our speakers smacks of just being an ass.

Sorry, Jack. I stooped to his level. I don't do "flame wars", I have better things to do than to feed other's fires with a BBS give and take. But hey, he's insulted myself and all the members of my new family, and I had to post ONE response in case he really doesn't "get it" and this causes him to rethink what he posted. Not likely, but I feel better!

_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#71675 - 12/19/04 06:48 PM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
No apologies necessary, Mark. It's very difficult not to rebut one who can only feel good about their opinion by denigrating those who hold an opposing one. It's the old, childish, "in order for me to be right, they HAVE to be wrong" trap.

When he grows up, he'll understand, particularly when it comes to anything as subjective as speaker preference, that when it comes to opposing opinions, neither is right; neither is wrong. The only wrong is being rude and insulting to those who hold the opposing opinion.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71676 - 12/19/04 10:23 PM Re: Huh?
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
Thanyou Mark for the reply. It made me feel better also.

By the way SLOWMO or whoever, YOU COULDNT BE MORE WRONG ABOUT JohnK.
Also just did a check to see whos online, and there you were. Whats the point if our opinions arent as good as yours.

_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#71677 - 12/19/04 10:25 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Still waiting to see pics of your set-up brotha!
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71678 - 12/19/04 11:36 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
May the gallbladders of one thousand yaks find their way into your underpants.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#71679 - 12/20/04 12:44 AM Re: Huh?
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
I'm with you MiniRock. I too would like to see a photo of his Krells and Thiels.
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#71680 - 12/20/04 12:53 AM Re: Huh?
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
Don't forget his Polks!
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#71681 - 12/20/04 12:57 AM Re: Huh?
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
He probably knows a bunch of other high-end words too.
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#71682 - 12/20/04 08:49 AM Re: Huh?
BBIBH Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Canada
I rarely stoop to any person who would attempt to start a war....but......

"My Reference 3a Supremas and Sim Audio Moon W5 amp can beat up your puny Krell and Thiel (cardboard and tin cans) setup any day weenie"!!!!!

Man...that felt good!!!!

Sorry, the above brought to you by the spirit of Troll busting
Those who know me realize that the above is purely intended to be funny, and I am VERY objective in my posts. I actually think that if the original poster does not like Axiom, fine with me. But it would be nice if he provided some real feedback.

In his defense, there are some on this board that take offense to people who don't like Axiom, and are objective in their posts as to why they don't like them.
_________________________
Regards,

Mike

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#71683 - 12/20/04 08:52 AM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
Take your own advice...dick.

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#71684 - 12/20/04 09:05 AM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
I think he does need to apologize, moreso to himself for acting like your butt buddy on this message board... ("forgive me"... oh brotha!) while you walk around with the backs of your hands dragging on the ground, you need to contemplate with that flake of dead skin you call a brain why you are overly sensitive when it comes to this message board,...I think you need to get out a bit...there's a whole world out there with REAL people in it that can remain rational depsite the word undiscerning being used to decribe a habit they may have. Its nice to see you have a life, but its sad to see it only exists on a hard drive in an air conditioned data center...take your own advice and grow up, and obstain from the same rudeness, hyposcrisy and outright ignorance you seem to think you are immune from...what a jerk!

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#71685 - 12/20/04 09:07 AM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
And may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits...did you come up with that all by yourself?

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#71686 - 12/20/04 09:40 AM Re: Huh?
slownlo Offline
buff

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 44
Loc: San francisco, CA
"My Reference 3a Supremas and Sim Audio Moon W5 amp can beat up your puny Krell and Thiel (cardboard and tin cans) setup any day weenie"!!!!!

(lol) they probably could!

There are a LOT of people on this message board that over react to anyone who says anything adverse about the Axioms. I personally think they are NOT discerning in the detail (or lack thereof) they provide...those folks that took offense to that are behaving just an itsy bitsy bit bitchy in my pov...

I didn't say I didn't like them (not that that matters), I did imply that I could have better spent my $1300 on a used pair that would have gotten me closer to the sonic detail I am looking for...apples and oranges? radioshack and Axiom? I reiterate...huh? I wasn't trying to compare the Axioms with Theils (there IS no comparison)...My bottom line is performance for MY dollar... and a used pair of CS 2.2's that cost $1300 will (subjectively) out perform a pair of brand new pair of M80i's that cost $1300 any day of the week. Why? Because the of the painstaking design craftsmanship and care that goes into making a pair of Theils, Sonus Fabers, etc... doesn't exist in a product that is produced and sold based on a mass market, scaled economy approach...but I am sure you all know that, but I think some of you are just blinded by your sense of community here and your loyalty to a brand name to truly be subjective at all, much much much to the contrary...

Heck,...I took the praise on good faith from the same people who are now "insulted" by my remark and used it for the basis of my descision to buy them in the first place. Maybe I expected too much, but from the posts here you would think that the Axioms were the best thing since...well....Axioms! (lol) but ANYWAY, before I am accused of simply wanting to hear myself talk...I will attempt to supply some real feedback, relative to my listening experience with the M80i's as soon as I am done with the "mob"...(lol)

My intention was not to cause dissension...

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#71687 - 12/20/04 09:41 AM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Proved me right, didn't he. Obviously incapable of responding with anything resembling intelligence, and without sounding like a 14 year old. It's like dueling with an unarmed man. Oh well!
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71688 - 12/20/04 09:54 AM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In reply to:

I personally think they are NOT discerning in the detail (or lack thereof) they provide


Ah the last bastion of the incorrect; to wit, altering what they said. Since you've obviously changed horses in mid stream, allow me to return you to the one upon which you arrived.

"I bought a pair of the M80i's (out of curiosity) and got rid of them...they are ok for the "undiscerning listener."

In your initial post, You didn't say the Axioms that were "undiscerning" in detail, You said those who like them are "undiscerning listeners." I reiterate. NOBODY minds if you you find the Axioms lacking, and say so. But when you insult those who don't, you're going to get the same in return. It would be nice if you'd just say "whoops. Sorry guys. Didn't mean to insult you." Then we could move on to more important things.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71689 - 12/20/04 10:08 AM Re: Huh?
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
well said jack..

SLOW- that is the issue.. we dont care if you dont really like the speakers. everyone has different tastes, and different preferances. thats why they make different speakers. i believe everyones problem is when you imply that all of us are wrong, because we DO like them. throw in your insults, and character jabs, and you got what was coming to ya.

if you wish to objectively talk speakers, then please stay.. if you want to continue to insult us and be generally unpleasant, then please go.. its a pretty simple concept.

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#71690 - 12/20/04 10:19 AM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
You said it better, John.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71691 - 12/20/04 10:37 AM Re: Huh?
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10666
Loc: Central NH
Well, I think you BOTH said it equally well!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#71692 - 12/20/04 10:44 AM Re: Huh?
BBIBH Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Canada
I hope you did not link all of your points in this email to me, as I was probably the closest to understanding your view point.

I put forth the pieces in my system ONLY to illustrate to you exactly what the others in this thread have mentioned - we did not say with any thought, what we did not like about the equipment in question - we simply started tossing insults. If you had stated clear, concise feelings, you may have received a warmer response. I do agree, and stated this, that some people on this board get easily offended when anyone dislikes Axiom. HOWEVER, primarily this is caused by people bent on a more insulting tact.

If they are not your fancy - great.
If they are the best you have ever heard - cool.


PS - I rather enjoyed a listening session I had with the 2.4's - and at one point I met Jim Thiel while in Kentucky for some IT consulting work.

_________________________
Regards,

Mike

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#71693 - 12/20/04 12:12 PM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Slownlo, I've been posting on this board for many years and don't recall any posts as unpleasant as yours. Looks to me like you were trolling for a fight and when you got the response you hoped for, you responded with a bad natured insulting screed of posts.

You don't have to like Axiom speakers, but you start out by insulting folks who do and then end up with mindless trash talk. We won't hold your bad behavior against Thiel speakers - great speakers, BTW.

_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71694 - 12/20/04 01:36 PM Re: Huh?
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
BigJohn - I'm with you on this one.

Slow - After reading your post, your juvenile responses, and the seeing your general contempt and disrespect for the people of this forum, I have to ask you.....Why are you here? Other than a prepubescent joy of insulting people to get a rise out of them, I can't seem to understand why you actually would spend your time on this forum. If you have nothing of value to say about Axiom's product and have no respect for the members of this forum, then please do us all a favor and run on over to the AVS forums. There, you can exist w/ the rest of the trolls ruining productive threads just to give yourself a sense of worth.

This is the last time I post to this thread, as this clown is not worth the effort.

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#71695 - 12/20/04 02:35 PM Re: Huh?
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 832
Loc: Illinois.
Why not have some of the guys do their "thread hijack routine"?
Slow will soon tire of the inane, jibber-jabber...............and move on.


Edited by LT61 (12/20/04 02:42 PM)
_________________________
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"

(Larryism)

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#71696 - 12/20/04 02:38 PM Re: Huh?
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2812
Loc: Rochester, NY
Wow, I leave you guys alone for a few days and you get all wrapped around the axle with a house plant.

Even though the last few posts are eloquently stated, I took the time today to do some research on Troll physiology. It turns out that if you stop feeding them, they starve. There's something to think about. Well, back to more enjoyable posts.

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#71697 - 12/20/04 04:29 PM Re: Huh?
Ned Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 117
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
TGI Friday's Club Sandwich.....really good ...ever have one?
_________________________
Axiom Denon Paradigm SVS

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#71698 - 12/20/04 04:40 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I'm thinking of starting a Sandwich Club. Anyone want to join?

The first rule of Sandwich Club:
Never hold the mustard.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#71699 - 12/20/04 04:53 PM Re: Huh?
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
the second rule of sandwich club:
NEVER HOLD THE MUSTARD!!

just in case you didnt get it the first time.

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#71700 - 12/20/04 05:14 PM Re: Huh?
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
I enjoyed a delicious sub from Potbelly today...

Any of you guys ever heard of it - had it, etc.?

I simply can't get enough - although the hot pepper medly gives me hot splashes (if you know what I mean) the next day. Well worth the price of admission, though.

On a side-note. I actually enjoy our visits from the trolls once in a while. Everybody loves a good catfight.

I find it amazing to watch people come and spark a flame in a thread only to be burned by the fire that they started. What's even more amazing is that these people continue to come back and post, as if they're accomplishing anything. It's sad to think that this might be SLOWNLOs only chance to feel what it is like to be alive - that is, to pick fake fights with anonymous strangers on the internet. Validation is a weird thing, especially the way in which people seek it.

Now, back to my sandwich.

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#71701 - 12/20/04 05:17 PM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Grilled a tri tip on the Weber last night (pure mesquite charcoal), to perfection, that means rare, made an onion/garlic gravy, today's lunch sandwich - rare tri tip on the best French baguette in southern California (C'est ci bon) with gravy and carmelized onions. Sour garlic pickle, diet Pepsi.

Top that!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71702 - 12/20/04 05:19 PM Re: Huh?
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

Top that!




i had 3 hersheys kisses, some peanut butter crackers, an orange, and a dr pepper..

oh yea, i know you are jealous..

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#71703 - 12/20/04 05:24 PM Re: Huh?
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
OK! Everybody to 2x6's for lunch. YUM! Even you can come John, but ya gotta bring your own peanut butter crackers.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#71704 - 12/20/04 05:32 PM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Bring some speakers to audition the tubie with!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71705 - 12/20/04 06:25 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
2x6,

The only thing I could do to top that is switch the Diet Pepsi for a good beer.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#71706 - 12/20/04 06:28 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I had leftovers, but but it was tasty!

Brown sugar-chipotle-cumin-rubbed salmon fillet with a raspberry-honey-lime glaze, yellow rice, and steamed veggies

All washed down with the remainder of my coffee (cold) and a glass of water.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#71707 - 12/20/04 06:29 PM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I drink my share of cold coffee.

_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71708 - 12/20/04 09:22 PM Re: Huh?
jtmccoy Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 96
T.G.I.F doesn't make a bad sandwich...but there are much better "values" out there in good "hi-end" beef (Kincaid's, Charley's, Tommy's) for what you would pay for a premium grade "mid-level" T.G.I.F sandwich. I bought the Southwestern jalapeno burger (out of curiosity) and tossed it aside...it was ok for the undiscerning taster, but if you want macro-palatable detail, the T.G.I.F.'s just don't cut it. I chewed on it for about 6 minutes and the flavor never opened up. It tasted like every other mass market sandwich I have ever tasted: Just ok. My Boddington's draft did manage to get the burger up to some impressive TBF's, but in the end the T.G.I.F. just lacked the ability to get inside the flavor and involve me. I went back to Charley's and breathed a sigh of relief: Now thats how a burger is supposed to taste.
_________________________
Fight on 'SC! Three-Pete Baby!

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#71709 - 12/20/04 09:27 PM Re: Huh?
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
Oh crap. Another troll.
_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#71710 - 12/20/04 09:30 PM Re: Huh?
Ned Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 117
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
It has been a year or so since the Club from TGIF, A Rally burger and seasoned fries are pretty good. Pappa John's Pizza around here is one of my favorites. The wife and her MOM get one every now and then on Sunday to have at home....plain and simple but quite g o o d. I get a chuckle out of my 84 yr. old MOM in law putting jalepeno slices on her Big Mac. She can eat with the big boy's!
Now I just need to figure out what to have for Christmas Day!.........cheers
_________________________
Axiom Denon Paradigm SVS

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#71711 - 12/20/04 09:33 PM Re: Huh?
CosmicVoyager Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 789
Loc: Asheville, NC
Panera bread has great sandwiches and any thing at Ted's Montana grill (if you like bison)
_________________________
M80's VP150 QS8's Earthquake SuperNova MKV-15
Integra DTR-7.4 Outlaw 755 Outlaw M200's Outlaw ICBM

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#71712 - 12/20/04 10:21 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Still waiting on pics of your set-up dude.
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71713 - 12/20/04 10:54 PM Re: Huh?
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
OK MiniRock
Heres my set-up.

_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#71714 - 12/20/04 11:25 PM Re: Huh?
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
LONG LIVE THE
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#71715 - 12/21/04 12:05 AM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
That pic begs the question:

Where's the beef?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#71716 - 12/21/04 01:30 AM Re: Huh?
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
truth be told, there ain't a lot. thats why theyre only like 60 cents a piece, and you buy em by the crate! i just wish we had them here in VA (we're inconveniently in the gap between Krystal and White Castle's up North), the only place i can get them are in the vending machines here at work
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#71717 - 12/21/04 02:04 AM Re: Huh?
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
I'm laughing my ass off. If I had been drinking milk, it would be all over the place. My wife is looking at me really strangely right now...
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#71718 - 12/21/04 02:56 AM Re: Huh?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
"Klatu Verata Nrmnphnfhr..." We're all dead.

_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#71719 - 12/21/04 04:01 AM Re: Huh?
AshBoomstick Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Richmond, VA
dude, my wife looks at me like i've got an arm coming out of my forehead whenever i watch that movie. i guess she doesnt get it... primitive screwhead.
_________________________
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

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#71720 - 12/21/04 05:35 AM Re: Huh?
Ned Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 117
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Mini,
That is a huge chunk of meat! Bison? I had a Buffalo Burger over in Colorado once.
And Krystal...Sister store to our White Castles only without those cooool looking little hot dogs.
Anyone tried Uno's Pizza? Good stuff. Went to the original in downtown Chicago and it was blah. The waitress said they make em' differently there than anywhere else. What ruined it was them not using that metal rack underneath the pizza while baking which in turn made the crust soak up all the juices. Can you say soggy as Spongebob?
_________________________
Axiom Denon Paradigm SVS

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#71721 - 12/21/04 08:40 AM Re: Huh?
BBIBH Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Canada
White Castles.....MMMMMMM not....
In Ontario, we have Fast Eddie's - the best artery clogging grease burgers you could ever want!!!
_________________________
Regards,

Mike

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#71722 - 12/21/04 08:55 AM Re: Huh?
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
yes, but who gets to cut the cheese?

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#71723 - 12/21/04 09:01 AM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
what about the cat?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71724 - 12/21/04 04:24 PM Re: Huh?
rcvecc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 608
Loc: east haven ct
speaking of cat-i love general tso meals-who was he anyway?


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#71725 - 12/21/04 04:36 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
Just had some General Tso Chicken for lunch.....I darn well hope it was not cat..... sufferan sucka tash....
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71726 - 12/21/04 05:42 PM Re: Huh?
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
Just had Genera's Chicken last night.....Is that why I have this incescant urge to lick the back of my hands and rub up against other people?

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#71727 - 12/21/04 05:47 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA

_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71728 - 12/21/04 05:55 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I'm sorry, but that's wrong.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#71729 - 12/21/04 05:57 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
I agree, he needs a bigger cat.
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71730 - 12/21/04 08:44 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
agreed PMbuko, anybody that hangs out at rotten.com has issues....
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71731 - 12/21/04 11:17 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Can't argue with that. A quick search on MSN for a "shaved cat" brought up the pic though. DAMN! Ok, I have issues.
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71732 - 12/21/04 11:21 PM Re: Huh?
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6716
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

That is one sick a$$ site.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#71733 - 12/21/04 11:23 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
just kinding dude, I've got a guy I work with that sends me stuff like that all the time. One website that is pretty cool is www.heavy.com but I'd recommend broadband access. Some pretty cool videos on that website...
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#71734 - 12/21/04 11:26 PM Re: Huh?
CosmicVoyager Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 789
Loc: Asheville, NC
Yeah, I was looking around and I found this weight lifter squating 700 #'s as a result his a$$ looks like alien was trying to make an exit. I'm never going to be the same again after seeing that .
_________________________
M80's VP150 QS8's Earthquake SuperNova MKV-15
Integra DTR-7.4 Outlaw 755 Outlaw M200's Outlaw ICBM

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#71735 - 12/22/04 07:05 PM Re: Huh?
TurboDog1 Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 342
Man....came over for a quick look to see how things are going around here and I see Rock's post.....As everyone else said....that's just plain wrong!

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#71736 - 12/22/04 07:35 PM Re: Huh?
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Yeah, no worries. That site is all kinds of f****d up, but I have worked in an ER for a short time, so nothing surprises me anymore. Anyway, I'll give heavy a look sometime.

slownlo: Still waiting for pics bud.
_________________________
Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#71737 - 12/24/04 01:58 PM Re: Huh?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16221
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Not that I'm helping things any, but I'm still waiting for this thread to drop off the front page...
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

Top
#71738 - 12/24/04 02:07 PM Re: Huh?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13309
Loc: Iowa
I agree, not sure why we are giving sweetnlo or slownlo, or whatever, so much attention. I say we picket this thread.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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