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#85690 - 03/16/05 11:57 PM Sorry....not impressed
Jimmy Offline
regular

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 8
Well I had the chance to preview the M80's (2 front, 1 center and 2 rear) with the QS8's....during dvd playback the QS8's were not existent as the front 2 M80's over powered all other speakers...center speaker was as clear as I expected...no surround sound at all...bass (ep600) was boomy at best...wanted to turn it off....during music playback they were unbalanced with no imaging at all....improperly set-up I suspect.....subwoofer was boomy and over powering...not properly placed...I suppose for their price they are OK...but unfornuately I am looking for speakers that are more than OK for my hear....sorry.....they look good though...

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#85691 - 03/17/05 12:36 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
ATCGuy Offline
buff

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Minnesota
You're right, they probably weren't setup correctly. You might want to read up on how to do that, and don't forget to brush up on quality audio/video components to go with them.

In the end, it's always easy to criticize something that's not working right, but it takes some intelligence to figure out why. Thanks.


Edited by ATCGuy (03/17/05 12:38 AM)
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[blue] "Welcome to my sky! Now buckle in for the ride!" [/blue]

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#85692 - 03/17/05 12:38 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
You mean they don't come pre-set from the factory?

I told them my room size and amplification.

Bren R.

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#85693 - 03/17/05 12:48 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Jimmy Offline
regular

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 8
Sorry...they weren't my speakers to set up and were running on 4...yes 4 Halo amps....way too much power and such a waste of money....

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#85694 - 03/17/05 12:51 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Hmmm. It doesn't seem as if the system you heard was set up well enough to draw any conclusions about the speakers themselves. Any chance you could get the owner to calibrate the system (or help them calibrate it ) and try again ?

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#85695 - 03/17/05 12:53 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Wondering if there might be another Axiom system you could listen to. What part of the country are you in ?

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#85696 - 03/17/05 12:58 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Jimmy Offline
regular

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 8
I am in the San Francisco Bay area and have emailed 4 owners within 100 miles...not very many to choose from...I truly wanted to like these speakers...would open another invitation for a listen....hopefully they would change my mind...until then....

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#85697 - 03/17/05 01:04 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Jimmy Offline
regular

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 8
Since these 4 Halo amps and Halo processor were close to $12,000.00 ...will if that isnt the quality audio equipment necessary to run these speakers...avoid these speakers at all costs....nothing can power them properly.

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#85698 - 03/17/05 01:28 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Of course, proper setup and positioning would have nothing to do with it.

When these speakers were set up - from the seated position, did you see binding posts? Maybe they were set up facing the walls.

Bren R.

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#85699 - 03/17/05 01:52 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
Hey guys, I dont think its necessary to make fun of someones opinion in a system that we or you havent heard. It is possible that the system he heard hasnt been fine tuned yet.
And he did say he would be interested to hear another Axiom system.
And its not like he made some blanket statement, like we've heard before.
From what I see, Jimmy gave his honest opinion. Agree with it or not.
end rant
_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#85700 - 03/17/05 01:53 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Jimmy Offline
regular

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 8
Wow...if Axiom owners are like you in your response then....will...I'll let your replys speak for themselves.


Have a nice day.

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#85701 - 03/17/05 02:10 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
Jimmy....I'm not an Axiom owner, but I've heard them and know enough to bet that system was not setup correctly when you heard it.

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#85702 - 03/17/05 02:34 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16257
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Hmmm. There's only one person I know of in the bay area who has that system. I'll have to ask him if he's taken the time to properly calibrate his system.

If the speakers really did sound awful to you, then there HAS to be something amiss in their setup. He did JUST get the Halos, so I'm sure things aren't totally dialed in yet.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#85703 - 03/17/05 02:37 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
I'm not here to sell speakers. Hell, even Alan who works for the company doesn't shill.

If you're in CA and you listened to that exact system, that we've all be hearing Tharkun talk about for who know how long now (I'm assuming here, maybe someone else is running the same exact setup, amps and all)... and as far as I know, he STILL hasn't done any final positioning or calibration... were they still in the boxes when you demoed them?

Bren R.
edit - ah, hell, sniped by Peter.


Edited by BrenR (03/17/05 02:38 AM)

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#85704 - 03/17/05 02:45 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
He didnt like them so what. Theyre not for everyone. Hey i dont like picasso, who cares. Maybe it wasnt setup right or maybe he just didnt like the way it sounded. Im not sure why he decided to post that in the first place but we cant convert everyone!
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#85705 - 03/17/05 02:50 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Jimmy -
Sorry to hear you left here after two hours with such a negative feeling, as I had mentioned on the phone when you called Monday, nothing has been calibrated or set up beyond running wires/cables, and I assumed you would take that into consideration upon auditioning the Axioms. It late, and I'm not going to post more than that till I'm fully functional, by morning I will make a more detailed post as to my 'side' of the issue so all can make a fair evalaution about your Axiom audition here on Tuesday.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85706 - 03/17/05 03:07 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Looking foward to hearng the facts Tharkun.
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#85707 - 03/17/05 06:12 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Jimmy -
I'm not going to get into a post war over my system, its my investment, I'm happy with it, and I have lived long enough that I can take criticism from anyone, good or bad, but it does not effect my life for more than an hour or so.
After reading your several posts, I sent you a PM, and I will cut & paste your reply, as I think it will help support my concerns of you brief but negative review of the Axioms.

1) When you called me on Monday about an auditioning, if I recall, I made it totally clear that I had just finished putting in place the 4 Halo amps over the weekend, and all I had time to do was testing for any heat issues, running high volume levels for extended times, and no concern about calibrations/adjustments.

2) I also recall making it clear that NOTHING had been set up or carefully calibrated, all speakers & sub, opened, removed from boxes, placed, wired up.

3) I agreed, if you wished to hear the system as it was, and make an honest evaluation of the Axiom speakers under these circumstances, I would be happy to have you take a listen.

When you arrived at 10am, once again I reminded you that nothing was calibrated with precision and things like bass management, treble & bass for each speaker and everything else was all set to factory defaults on the C2 processor. I played two tracks from Tubular Bells 2003 running in 7.1 well I removed all of the speaker grills, so you would be able to view them. You did not seem to prefer the 7.1 sound, and all the listening after that was with your music, and if I recall, mostly in just the stereo mode. You asked if I could add the sub, which I fumbled through all the new screens and managed to do. When you used your CD with the female vocalist that you stated as " tearing up most speakers'" running on the Denon 2900, and the volume level you choose, with just the front M80's, set at 'stereo' mode, no sub. I guess I'm now to take you statement they were handing her voice very well and you were impressed, as being just something nice you said to the owner of the system.

During you auditioning, I offered several times for you to use the set up screens and the Radio Shack meter that I had turned on and laid on the coffee table in front of you, to make any adjustments so the speakers were tweaked to your listening preferences, since every one hears sounds different, this I thought was only fair to the Axiom system. Especially since you had mentioned being to the Good Guys and Magnolia Hi-FI and auditioning the other two brands you were considering. They had a big advantage from the start, since both of those stores have the money to construct nice auditioning spaces. As you could see, in my listening environment, I have over 1,200 sq. ft of marble floor, no carpet or rugs at all, there is 400 - 500 sq. feet of granite on the walls of the solarium and the spa surround. The solarium has over 1,500 sq. ft of glass, and you acknowledge this and admitted I had a very ‘hard’ listening area surface.

Also I made it clear I was not a sub woofer expert, and that I had made a contact on this forum that had offered to visit and aid me in finding the correct location, and then adjust it for me. Also I offered to just turn if off completely and eliminate it from the system, you stated it was okay. You acknowledged this, by saying you did not have any experience at it as well. When I had mentioned the M80s were 4 ohm speakers and the Halo amps were rated at 400watts @4 ohms, and that the QS8's were 6 ohm speakers, you stated you were not familiar with what exactly the ratings of speakers meant.

I have two computer geeks in the house, and since having the Halo C2 processor, they have played with the setup menus, worse than kids at Christmas. The C2 is smarter than I, and I have not read the manual at all, and what set up for inputs that are done, have been by using previous experience. There are set up screens for the Dolby, bass management and may other items. Also there are 5 presets for speaker adjustments, db level, bass, treble, and a few things I have not even read up on, so no clue what those setting even do as of yet. Each of these presets are assignable to any of the inputs for instance, when the C2 detects a signal from the Denon 2900 that a DVD is present, it will use which ever of the 5 preset speaker levels that has been assigned to that input.

When you played your test scene from you DVD, shortly after it was playing, this was the first you mentioned anything about the imaging issue, and also the QS8s not being heard. After you tried relocating the front M80's, and suggesting that perhaps they were wired incorrectly, I admitted something was definitely not right, but you also admitted that it was not the speakers’ fault. If you recall, I did call you within two hours after leaving my house, and informed you I had found the imaging problem. Well playing your DVD, some how that preset speaker level for the M80's was Left 1 dB, Center 7 dB, Right 7 dB, Left QS8 5, Right QS8 4. You admitted that could be the problem with the imaging, perhaps you don't fully understand just what those settings would do to the DVD sound track ?

By this time you had been here nearly two hours, and mentioned you needed to get going. When I asked you what you thought of the Axioms, you stated you were impressed at the clarity, the bass, and the quality of sound from the Halos, you exact words escape me at the time, but it was very high praise for both Axiom/Parasound, and that you wished the Halos were in your budget range, but not. When I asked about the Axiom, and if you were happy with them you had two comments:

1) One concern was the " Axioms just don't have a lot of written reviews ".

2) "Axiom has been around for many years and don't understand why they were only an internet company, and have not expanded out to having a brick and mortar business, like most other speaker companies".

I mentioned that that for the sake of a few hundred dollars, you could audition an entire Axiom system in your home for 30 days, if not happy with it for any reason, simply return it, your comment was "yes, but a couple of hundred is a coupe of hundred"

Having met you, and you being here for a couple of hours, I flet that if you were to make a review of the Axioms on this forum, it would be an accurate one. When I read your posts, it was a total surprise as it to being so negative, and your not taking the time to give more exact detail as to the Axiom set up you auditionied. You were given free run of the system, and could have placed the fronts, rear, and center to your preference, used the SPL and spent maybe 20 minutes to get the baisc set up to allow you a fair and accurate assement of the Axiom speakers.

I was attempting to do you a favor, to have access to a system as I would expect when I have went to top end store and used one of thier auditioning room, I expect to set things to my listening preference, and use my media and spend the time to arrive at what I feel is a well informed decision.

"bass (ep600) was boomy at best...wanted to turn it off"

Sorry Jimmy, this is not accurate, you were told you could adjust, turn off, what ever.

"Sorry...they weren't my speakers to set up and were running on 4...yes 4 Halo amps....way too much power and such a waste of money"

Once again, your fisrt part of this is not accurate at all, you were given the option to adjust/calibrate anything as you prefered. As for the you second statement, Halos being a waste of money, this has nothing to do with a review of the Axiom speakers. If its to provoke me, forget it, you mentioned spending $ 9k on the stereo system in your Lexus, so whats the differance, money is money, and each spends as he likes.

"Since these 4 Halo amps and Halo processor were close to $12,000.00 ...will if that isnt the quality audio equipment necessary to run these speakers...avoid these speakers at all costs....nothing can power them properly."

Once again, if a system is not set up and calibrated, at least to some degree, it does not matter if it was the $3,500 Dennon you are interested in, or if its my Halo system, the speakers are not going to preform to ones liking.

"Wow...if Axiom owners are like you in your response then....will...I'll let your replys speak for themselves."

Jimmy, not sure how long you have been on the internet, or how much expieriance you have had with forum memebers. But forums can be like an extended family, and most on this forum know all to well, the current status of my system, and they also know what Axiom speakers are capable of sounding like. You can not just pop in, make a review as you did, and not expect some defense in reguards to a product most own, and know what they sound like. What you stated is basically impossible if the Axioms were set up at all. Review other brands of speakers, equipment, what ever, on a forum for that cmpany,see if you don't get the same or even more attacking responses.

Dennis,

Please don't take my comments personally...I can understand why you would be concerned as they are yours....but I am compelled to post an honest evaluation of the system I heard.....no one likes to buy a product and then have others criticize the product, but this is a message board for potential buyers.....I believe they are entitled to hear the opinions of others....good or bad....again....I agree, as stated they were not set up properly.....but having said that they didnt produce the quality sound I expected or have heard from better quality speakers...they simply were loud with no distinct sound....very average to my ear...

respectfully,

Jim

As for your PM, I'm not taking this personal, I honestly could care less what you think of my system, I did not add my name to the auditioning list for Axioms to help out my ego or what ever. I will open my door to any one that is interested in Axioms, so they have one more owner to vist, perhaps to help with owners being to far to drive to listen.

One part of your PM, and also in your post is the "honest" evaluation, that is all I expected from you, and if you really feel you have made that, than I'm sorry to wasted my time on this post. How can one make an honest evaluation of a speaker system, and in the same context, admit knowing they were not correctly set up/ calibrated or speaker location not even sure of.

I take the responsability for your negative feelings of the Axiom, I sould have ignored your excitement about hearing them on Tueday. I should have dealyed your audition for a few weeks, till I had the time to tweak, adjust, and learn all the capabilities of the C2 processor/Dennon 2900 before ever allowing a perspective Axiom customer through my door.

Trust me, I'm not to old to still learn, I will not make this sort of quick decision again, and possibly cost Axiom to loose customers. If you are still interested, and once I have had time to do a proper set up, you are welcome to return and give Axioms a second and fair audition.

Nite all,
Dennis
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85708 - 03/17/05 08:16 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Very well said Dennis.If things were not set up and calibrated I think a second audition would be the ticket.Jimmy take him up on it once things are all set up,it might change your mind.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#85709 - 03/17/05 08:24 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Jimmy, I do not discount, in any way, your impressions of the Axioms. I'm sure you heard what you say you heard. But, in your rush to judgment in your initial post, other than a cursory "improperly set-up I suspect," and a dismissive,"not properly placed," you made no mention of the fact you had been TOLD of the extenuating circumstances of Dennis' setup, BEFORE you went to his home.

Posting what you posted WITHOUT adding that disclaimer was, at best, irresponsible; at worst, malicious. This lack of balanced reporting brings into question your motives in posting at all. Knowing that things weren't calibrated, how could you possibly expect to post an "honest evaluation" of the Axioms. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you are young, and allowed your disappointment to cloud your judgment.

And, your unnecessary, callous, and rude "way too much power and such a waste of money...." crack about Dennis' quality equipment demonstrates a serious lack of audio knowledge, not to mention a profound lack of respect for, and lack of courtesy toward, someone who graciously invited you into his home in an effort to help you.

That was Dennis' ONLY mistake. He should have denied you access until he had everything setup properly. I'm sure he has learned from that error. So have we all.


_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#85710 - 03/17/05 08:49 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
I totaly agree with the above post, except for one thing.
Given Jimmy's mean-spirited tone, and his seemingly intentional attempt to leave out some very important facts about the demo situation (that he knew about going in)I think Dennis' second mistake was inviting him back.

_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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#85711 - 03/17/05 08:51 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10829
Loc: Central NH
Yeah...
What both of them said!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#85712 - 03/17/05 09:18 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
In reply to:

its my investment, I'm happy with it, and I have lived long enough that I can take criticism from anyone, good or bad, but it does not effect my life for more than an hour or so.




Took me many moons to finally figure this out, with me though, usually an 'hour or so' is stretching it way long!

Actually I thought for you to audition your system, *that* kind of system straight out of the box without any tweaking and calibrating was a very nice gesture by you and at the very least should have been the first letters typed in the opening post by Jim..first and foremost.

Oh BTW, although I know at least some of the sound quality was lost, I thought the system sounded great...way down here in south Florida.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#85713 - 03/17/05 10:53 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Mark Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 26
Loc: McKinney, Texas
Good Morning Tharkrun,

Came across this thread this morning. Uhh... very interesting exchange... Anyways, I don't mean to change the subject (ok its my feeble attempt to...what is it called, "hijack" the thread...). My dad is old school (Marantz 2245, AR speakers, Akai reel to reel, Pioneer pre-amp, Schure belt drive record player...you get the picture)and is a dyed in wool "stereophile" (don't know if that's a term...). When you get your system set up, would you mind extending a visit to my dad and me for a listen. I want him to listen to what he is missing (Actually, my hidden agenda is to get him to spring for a set of Factory Outlet QS8's). You see, I just hooked up my M60 fronts, VP150 center, EP350 sub, and m2 surrounds but I live in SoCAL and dad lives in Fairfied Ca. (40 mi. east of SF) so listening over the phone won't cut it. Mom and Dad have yet to come down and visit their grand daughters and to hear my new system plus I will be up there before they come down here. Let me know if my request is OK with you and I can PM you with my contact information and my impending visit to NorCal.
_________________________
Emotiva Sys
USP1Pre
ERC1CD
XPA2Amp
RBH1044SE
PrimaLuna Sys
PL3Pre
PL6Monoblocs
TubeCD
M60ti

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#85714 - 03/17/05 11:12 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Mark -
As I stated in my reply above. my door is awlays open for auditionong Axioms, I'm am very one happy customer, and feel this is the least I can do, since I have had so much phone support over my amp issues from Alan, Brent, Joe, and Amie always respond to my email so fast, I have decdied she sleeps with a laptop close by.
After my first experience at offering an audition, I may need to take the advice of a member of my age on this forum and in the future have a disclaimer for auditioning. It would state that the system is set up for my listening preferences, and in no way is that to reflect the quality of Axiom or Parasound products, I'm soley responsable for all sound quality, speaker placement, and being able to program the C2 processor. LOL
All humor aside, of course, auditioning invites are open to all and in any numbers, the listening area is rather large, so not confined to just a few, the more, the better, as I'm open for others objective opinions on any improvments I might be able to make. I do not have a trained ear such as Alans, so I do not state that my system is the ultimate, or that I will ever have it tweaked to perfection, its a hobby, and I will always be tweaking with something........I hope
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ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85715 - 03/17/05 11:21 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
Tharkun,

thanks for putting some closure on this issue, it sounds like you were up front with Jimmy, and explained that no setup of the system had yet been completed, for some reason he left that out. Anyway, I'm sure once you get everything in synch, that system will be one to reckon with...
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#85716 - 03/17/05 11:23 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Mark Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 26
Loc: McKinney, Texas
Hi Tharkun,

Thought I would shoot this out before heading to work. Thanks for the invite. My dad will be impressed. BTW, I am in the same boat. Will always tinker to find what sounds best to me. The constant room rearrangements and reconfigurations is driving the significan other crazy. But hey its in the name of finding the optimum soundstage. Again I appreciate that you have opened your house for auditioning. In my mind, I think that is awesome.

Regards,

Mark
_________________________
Emotiva Sys
USP1Pre
ERC1CD
XPA2Amp
RBH1044SE
PrimaLuna Sys
PL3Pre
PL6Monoblocs
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#85717 - 03/17/05 11:36 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
In reply to:

I appreciate that you have opened your house for auditioning. In my mind, I think that is awesome



Hell yes man!!! i got two thumbs WAY up for tharkun. even though his system might not be perfect(yet), he has put himself in a position to have to take these types of bad and unflattering comments. if the guy didnt like the system, or he was just not blown away by it, then cool, dont buy axiom and halos. but NO ONE likes to hear those types of things about their system they have invested so much time, money, and effort into.

your a good man there tharkun. just wish i could make it for the BBQ. hey, maybe someone can make some of my 3-dump chili.. then it will at least smell like i am there!!

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#85718 - 03/17/05 12:01 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8267
Loc: Tacoma
Yeah, hey, what Jack, MarkS, Randy, and bigjohn said!

Dennis is a good guy.

It's wrong to accept someone's hospitality and then, cloaked by the compulsion to be "honest", complain about it later in public. Wrong. We still have Right and Wrong, don't we?

As to wanting the party to smell like bigjohn is there...

_________________________
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#85719 - 03/17/05 12:04 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
I think Axiom should send Alan to all the audition homes for a full day of calibration.
Come on down Alan.
_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#85720 - 03/17/05 12:05 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
In reply to:

The C2 is smarter than I



And the week's funniest quotes continue the parade....
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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#85721 - 03/17/05 01:33 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Wow, I read this thread last nite as I was finishing up my brackets. I figured this would explode by the morning...

1) Kudos to Tharkun for opening his home to a demo. Wow, you have bling'ed out system there. I'm surprised I can't hear it all the way in the Bay Area...
2) Jimmy is entitled to his opinions. Granted one has to be prepared for replies when generating a post such as this on manufacturer's board. I must admit, though, most Axiom users are pretty open minded and open to criticism.
3) This should heed a warning to auditioners. Always "prepare" auditioners for particulars on your own system. We all have our own auditory preferences, which may not appeal to everyone. I have a lively space, so I always warn listeners. In one audition, I had 2 separate listeners. 1 liked them, the other didn't. The one who liked them bought Axioms. Lesson? Axioms aren't for everyone.

As an aside, seems like auditioning season is starting. I've already had 2 requests in the past 2 weeks. More money for the M60 fund...

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#85722 - 03/17/05 06:25 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
You're a good man Tharkun. It seems to me Jimmy was more interested in the marketing rather than the performance of the speakers. Maybe I am wrong, but having worked at one of the B&M's he mentioned, I can't recommend a similar speaker that they sell in the same price range of the M80's that come even close to how well my M60's perform. To each his own I guess.

And, Tharkun, I'd be more than happy to set-up, properly place your speakers, and calibrate both your audio and video when I am down there this summer.
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#85723 - 03/17/05 06:31 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Hey, I'll take you up on that offer, even if it is set up, still can play with it, or least listen and get your opinion, I'm more than happy with the system, and know it will be good once tweaked, and would enjoy sharing with people with similar intersts, people that are not it the audio stuff just can' relate to a decent system.
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ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85724 - 03/17/05 06:38 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
For any one traveling dwon I-5 Tracy is like right next to the freeway, and I'm about 10 minutes west of it, so its not out of the way from that route.
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#85725 - 03/17/05 09:49 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
tharkun, congrats on the killer system (even if the EP600 is just an average one-note thumper! LOL hahahahahah! ). Seriously though, jimmy is a dumbass. Don't even trip.

Maybe treating some of those hard reflective surfaces would be as worthwhile as any other upgrade?

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#85726 - 03/18/05 04:11 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Mark Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 26
Loc: McKinney, Texas
To all,

My dad informed me of the following concernig my initial post to Tharkun:
1) It's a turntable NOT a record player
2) Shure manufactures cartridges
3) The manufacture of HIS turntable is Garrard and the model is a Zero 100 SB

Sorry about any confusion that I may have created or caused...
_________________________
Emotiva Sys
USP1Pre
ERC1CD
XPA2Amp
RBH1044SE
PrimaLuna Sys
PL3Pre
PL6Monoblocs
TubeCD
M60ti

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#85727 - 03/18/05 05:53 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
hehe, had kinda figured that, know the names, but remembering turn tables and tape decks is not a priority, just reminds of my age. LOL
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#85728 - 03/18/05 06:10 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Sorry about any confusion that I may have created or caused...

You obviously need to watch "Antiques Road Show" more often

I just got a shock -- went to plug my turntable into my nice new AVR 630 and the darned thing doesn't even HAVE phono inputs. Is this what old age is gonna feel like ?

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#85729 - 03/18/05 06:18 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
You got it John, may as well just accept it.. LOL


Edited by Tharkun (03/18/05 06:19 PM)
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#85730 - 03/18/05 06:36 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
John,
That's my dilemma with looking at new A/V Receivers. I have an older Technics turntable with a couple of high-end cartridges and would like to hook this up when I decide on a new receiver. Some of the newer models don't have phono jacks! This is forcing me into spending more than necessary.


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#85731 - 03/18/05 06:41 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
frzoll Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 63
Loc: Freeland Wa.
I just got a hk 630 this week.Have you had problems with the set up.It's a lot harder then the yamaha 1400 it replaced

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#85732 - 03/18/05 06:55 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
It was my first AV receiver so didn't have much to compare it with. Since first hooking it up (actually a few months ago, just no time to play with it) I have downloaded manuals for a few other receiver models while trying to answer questions here and did find that most of the other manuals seemed easier to read and understand than the HK.

My big frustration with all of the manuals is that they try to "write the manuals for dummies" (ie no useful high level information, plodding step by step instructions spread over several pages) but the result doesn't seem to be useful to anyone. Too many words for a novice to wade through, and no high level information for a more experienced person to quickly understand.

Sorry, am I venting again ?

The one thing I still haven't figured out (and I think the receiver may just not do it) is how to route LF signals from center and surrounds to the mains when running without a sub. I'm getting my sub back this weekend so I guess I don't care any more, but the manual seems to state clearly "speakers set to small, no sub, no bass".

The big revelation for me was the fact that it remembers different settings for different combinations of input sources and input content, depending on whether you set bass management to Global or Independent. Until I clued in I was convinced that SOMEONE was changing all my settings every time I went out of the room

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#85733 - 03/18/05 07:12 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
I ended up buying a new bottom of the line Sony... (which one is in my profile, I actually leave it in the box) just because it had line level outs (and apparently my mom had thrown out my BSR I left behind when I left home)

All my fond memories of vinyl and it's gorgeous warm, round sound went out the window when I hear that first pop.

Bren R.

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#85734 - 03/18/05 08:52 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
joninflorida Offline
local

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Lake Worth Florida
Tharkun, Thank you for the classy way you handled everything, and the invite you did (and will) extend to potential axiom users. Not for everyone, fine. Hell, my best friend hates ALL seafood, gets sick even thinking about a big ol lobster, so people are different. I recently moved all my existing gear into a new HT room, what should be a bigger "better" room. I am telling you it sounded like $hit, same componants. It took alot of patience, placement, tweeking, etc. getting a system "right" is a HUGE part of enjoying any speakers sound quality. Dennis, I also have/had a "hard room". Glass, solid maple floors, leather, not much cloth. I have used several "absorbing" ideas that look very good. In fact most are hidden, you don't evan see them. Custom cut 1" and 1.5" panels located under furniture framing etc. I will be happy to send you some pics, or whatever. It has (finally) made for a wonderful acoustical room. I have never said that Axiom's are the "best" sounding speaker on the planet, but on this planet where money is a factor. For the money I LOVE my Axioms, and I have heard many speakers, at all price ranges. I recently got the Sunfire cinema IV processor (preamp) with my Sunfire amp, and the warm, and exciting (yes they can be both) sound that flows from the Axioms is awesome, music, or HT.

BTW, Brother Bob, where in south Florida are you located??
_________________________
Sunfire amps & processor Sammy 50" Crown amp 2-SVS SS Maple Ultras, Axiom 60s,22s,150cc, QS8s

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#85735 - 03/19/05 07:56 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Bilbo_Baggins Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Utah
I am rude, quick to judge and unappreciative – can I come to you home to hear your M80s?

Jeeesh, where do people get the nerve!

I am also VERY impressed with your response, the world could use more gentleman like you.

Not to make light of this but, all I could think of is that Seinfeld episode with the character Jimmy:
“Jimmy’s getting upset”
“Jimmy holds grudges”
“Jimmy’s going to get you Kramer”


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#85736 - 03/19/05 10:36 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
Interesting thread. I'm going to stand out on my own here but the excuse of "It's not set-up right" is a little to easy to throw around. There are a thousand posts all over this forum from people who got there speakers and hooked them up anywhere and posted nice things. Placement and set-up is important but let's not be to quick to condemn every negative word on Axioms as a "Placement problem or Set-up" problem. Perhaps like me, the dude didn't like the speakers plain and simple. He could have and should have posted that a little more diplomatically but it's no crime not falling head over heels for the Axiom sound.

Dennis, full marks for your follow up. I would not have been so diplomatic.

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#85737 - 03/19/05 11:05 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I think we all agree that not everyone has to like Axioms. Not only is there a lot of personal preference involved, nobody is saying that Axioms are "the best speakers in the whole wide world", just good speakers and good value from a company that's real nice to deal with.

Dennis went to great lengths to make sure Jimmy understood the system was newly hooked up, not calibrated, no time on placement or room tweaks. Not only did Jimmy fail to mention that, but all of his criticisms appeared to be setup issues, not the kind of criticisms one normally does hear about Axioms.

You found things you didn't like about Axioms, tried a couple of different models, provided great feedback of the differences, tried a couple of other brands and eventually settled on different speakers (MAs, right ?). Everyone respects that and we all learned from your efforts and your posts.

I guess I also had a problem with Jimmy's overall attitude. He just couldn't say enough bad things about Dennis's system. If I knew little enough about HT to be able to post things like "gee, if $12K of amps won't make these speakers sound good what kind of system am I going to have to buy ?" I would ask more questions, listen more, and talk a bit less until I had a clue.

Bottom line -- I agree 100% with what you're saying but don't feel that this particular... um.... gentleman deserves the benefit of the doubt. I was quite surprised that he had even bothered to listen to Axioms (actually PM'ed Dennis to see if he had ever heard of this guy) -- Jimmy's posts sounded more like someone who wanted to make themselves feel good by criticizing other people's systems.


Edited by bridgman (03/19/05 11:14 AM)

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#85738 - 03/19/05 11:24 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

Jimmy's posts sounded more like someone who wanted to make themselves feel good by criticizing other people's systems




I agree........................you would have to be out looking for trouble to find things wrong with the system Dennis is running. I bet you could hook up.......................... Bose speakers to those HALO's and it would sound decent...................

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#85739 - 03/19/05 12:14 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Heck, anyone in his neighborhood can hear high quality sound now

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#85740 - 03/19/05 12:24 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
simboticus Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 134
Loc: SF bay area
Hi Dennis,

I live just over the hill in San Ramon, I'll have to come by and check out your system sometime. Feel free to do the same with me. I have: M80's, VP150, Outlaw Audio LFM-1 sub, and I'm just running some cheap Boston Acoustic bookshelfs for my surrounds right now, I've got an Outlaw 1050 for my receiver, and I'm running a separate Aragon 4004 (2 x 200w) to power the mains.

I looked all over Axiom's site to sign up on the demo list (willing to demo my system to people), but I can't find where to sign up for this.



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#85741 - 03/19/05 12:38 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Thanks for the offer, and will stop by when I'm over the hill, feel free to do the same. Just send Amie an email with the list of equipment and she will add you, may take a few days as she is always busy.

amie@axiomaudio.com
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ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85742 - 03/19/05 12:40 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Just a suggestion, Jimmy is in San Ramon as well, so if he contacts you, be sure you have your system at peak performance.
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ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85743 - 03/19/05 12:51 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
simboticus Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 134
Loc: SF bay area
Jimmy can find someone else, sorry Jimmy. I understand that some people may not like Axiom's, there are better speakers around for more $$$. I am not personally insulted when someone criticizes them, it seems like some people on this board are (not Tharkun), but there was no call for the rudeness exhibited.

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#85744 - 03/19/05 12:53 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
frzoll Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 63
Loc: Freeland Wa.
I really dislike the 630 remote.I just ordered a Harmony 659,so that should solve some of my problems with operating my system. Sorry for the hi-jack guys

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#85745 - 03/19/05 01:51 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

I'm going to stand out on my own here but the excuse of "It's not set-up right" is a little to easy to throw around.


But it's not like it was a couple of speakers in a stereo setup in a small room. From Tharkun's pics, he's got them in the Taj Mahal of difficult rooms and it's the whole shebang at once - receiver, amps et al all at once. From what I understand, they pretty much still smelled like cardboard, they were out of the boxes for such a short period of time.

Bren R.

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#85746 - 03/19/05 02:43 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
My issue with Jimmy (can't hold it in any longer) is that he was not a member of the board before. He never told us he was going to audition (unless I'm greatly mistaken), so we never needed to know he didn't like them. I wouldn't try out a product, then go and search out the lair of the fans of said product just to tell them that it sucked. It just doesn't make sense, and is completely unnecessary.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#85747 - 03/19/05 02:56 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

I wouldn't try out a product, then go and search out the lair of the fans of said product just to tell them that it sucked.


I'm going out this afternoon to try out a gas-electric hybrid, knowing full well I want a big ol' SUV with 40" tires... then go onto the Prius forums and complain about cargo space and ground clearance.

Bren R.

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#85748 - 03/19/05 03:17 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
I'm out in the shop/garage working on a CD/DVD storage cabinet, and have been watching the posts. I want to thank all for the great support, and over the last few days, have had time to reflect on what was exactly discussed well Jimmy was here.
Alos I have a few sources and have done some research, and I have been waiting for Jimmy to return and make some sort of explaination. In a few days when I have some thime, I'm going to make one more post on this thread, and then drop it, from what I have leaned in the past days, I was a victum of a set up, and this is what pisses me off, I usually see things coming, and should have seen this in advance.
I'm not loosing sleep over this, and I feel I have a great system for what I can afford to invest, its not set up perfect, has lots of areas for improvement. But I have so many projects going on from making this kind of upgrade, that the tweaking, calibating, and such, just has not been a priority as of yet.
Bigger issue is to finish up cabling, power sources for amps, storage for discs that are in stacks.

I should thank Jimmy for his post, as I now have seberal offers from memebers offering to aid in the set up, and this is great for me, I'm not an expert, and will take any help offered.

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#85749 - 03/19/05 03:27 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
kste1974 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 39
Loc: North Carolina
Jimmy's lack of response says it all!
_________________________
50" Panasonic Plasma; VP100; M60Ti; Denon 3805; Infinity sub/rears; HD w/Tivo; Salamander Synergy

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#85750 - 03/19/05 07:56 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
How's the Outlaw Sub? I can't recall any Axiom owners that had one.

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#85751 - 03/19/05 10:52 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Halos Driving M80s

I think your sig needs an update to reflect your latest configuration :

Halos. Lots of Halos.
M80s. Lots of M80s.

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#85752 - 03/19/05 11:11 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
That's funny.
What I am really hoping for is that Dennis will run out of projects and figure out a way to combine his cabintry skills with his love of Axioms and fashion 4 more M80s into Surrounds. The Qs80!
Of course there would have to be even MORE Halos!
_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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#85753 - 03/19/05 11:33 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Gawd, I don't even want to think about that. What shape would the cabinets have to be, a dodecahedron or something ? Try folding THAT out of a single sheet with the vinyl already laminated to the front...

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#85754 - 03/20/05 12:09 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
OK, what movie was dodecahedron in? The only reason I recall that (12 sided right?) was from a movie.

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#85755 - 03/20/05 12:10 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
The Phantom Tollbooth. Originally a book, but I'm pretty sure there was a movie, too.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#85756 - 03/20/05 12:14 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Yeah, I remember reading the book and watching the movie as a kid. Long time ago.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#85757 - 03/20/05 10:35 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16257
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The movie was Contact, with Jodie Foster. Originally a Carl Sagan book. The doedecahedron was the space "capsule" she was sitting in during her "did she really or was it all in her head" journey through space.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#85758 - 03/20/05 11:05 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Since I’m awake at 4 am and can not use power tools, thought I would post my final thoughts on this Jimmy Issue if your are tired of this issue, click and go to a more interesting thread.

In the last several days, I have noticed Jimmy on the forum. I sent him a private message, which I assume he is going to ignore and not reply to, the same as he has done with this thread, make a few
biased statements, then just follow the members posts, without further comments on his part. In my opinion, all he has accomplished is like shooting ones self in the foot. This forum is one of the most knowledgeable and accommodating ones I have ever been a member of. Jimmy had to his advantage a wealth of experience and information and in ‘my’ opinion has really harmed his creditability by taking a few cheap shots at me about how I spend my money. One would assume that since he searched out the Axiom forum, he was serious about being interested in this line of speakers. I have been in cyber for over 20 years, and one can lean what to watch for and have an insight to cyber players, that for what ever reasons are just out to either cause havoc on forums such as this, or to make themselves seem
more knowledgeable about an issue than perhaps they truly are.

When I received Jimmy’s PM about his interests in auditioning my system, I checked his bio, noticed he
had joined the forum only a few days prior. Read his posts, and there was nothing to cause concern, seemed like he had done research, and made his choices other than which name to go with for speaker selection. I sent him a PM with my number, within an hour he called. Once again, after talking to him and learning he was a stay at home father, and I explained about my system, made the decision to have him over, since he seemed anxious to make a decision REAL soon, and understanding that excitement, I agreed to an audition.

I was told by Jimmy that he had a budget of $ 15k, he had pretty much decided on a Pioneer Elite 1120 HD, Denon 3910, Denon 4806, and was very impressed with the Vienna Acoustic Mozart series. He seemed knowledgeable, using all of the normal buzz words, but after talking to him in person, things such as amps, watts, ohms, the basic stuff, which I would expect someone making a sizeable investment for a complete HT system, would at least have the basic understanding of. If not, then how will one reach an informed and logical decision, and with a $ 15k investment, its not like buying a inexpensive out of the box system, and if one is dissatisfied when trying it at home, simply box it up, return it and demand a refund.

Well Jimmy was here for over two hours, auditioning what he later reviews as an okay speaker system, and over powered amps that were just a waste of money. We talked about HT equipment and I was told how he was dealing with Best Buy, Magnolia Hi-Fi (which was purchased by BB for $ 86 mil, and they now shove them in the corners of select store) and The Good Guys. I had mentioned on the phone about my dealings with GG when trying to purchase the Halo system, and well here, he asked for the details. I told the ordeal of getting a refund, and the time I spent at the store, he took it upon himself to inform me that I had no clue as to dealing with sales staff. Since he had been in some sort of management which I do not recall, that he had the edge, and could get his demands meant when he was spending $ 15k on a system. I was informed that he had forced one of the above stores, to allow him to take 3 demos home, one at a time, so he could decide which TV he would decide on. (wait, thought that decision was made) If they did not find demos for him, he would simply purchase them one at a time, and once he had made his decision, they would have the opened box units to sell, at least 2, if not all 3,if he did not decide on one. When he called me to arrange the audition, I was told that both Best Buy and Good Guys were going to give him a 30 day trail/return on anything he was interested in. I told him that was not my experience with dealing with them, I was told that I just did not know how to deal with them then. So it went from an agreement with the store to a threat I guess. Bottom line, I would like to see this happen in the chain stores, yes they like large sales, will they go out of their way *shrug* find any one in these types of stores that have that kind of authority to make a decision. These stores have guidelines, and do not take it upon themselves to make a decision, without it taking weeks to receive a decision back from corporate.

In the last six months, there have been three areas of major purchases, a total of over $80k, and I have made all of the final decisions of prices paid. I’m all too aware of factory flooring, central warehouses that chain store pull from, and how stores like to sell open boxed items. I understand the system very well, the day of cash being a negotiating factor in a sale are long past, at least for us small peasants. With so much population in the bay area, chain stores do not concern them selves with customer service, if you don’t buy it, the next person in the door will.

I was a contractor for years, and built houses on spec, and prayed I had a buyer before the house was completed and my loan went from a construction loan to a conventional loan. I move here to the bay area, decide to purchase a new home, and what do I learn, it’s a lottery system, you make 3 choices out of the current phase of homes, you are put on a waiting list. Then on a specified date/time, you leave a voice mail of your three choices, if luck is with you, you win one of your choices. If not, the next phase of homes increase by $ 7 –12k, and you get to make another attempt. I would have liked to have this deal when I was building custom homes. One advantage is like this house, you can double your investment within 2 to 4 years. Sorry, I’m way of topic here folks. Point was, I’m not a dummy when it comes to making major purchases, and usually have some sort of clue as to what I’m doing.

Jimmy was driving a Lexus, that I would guess is no more than a year or two old, not familiar with the model years for that manufacturer, not my personal preference, me, I’m more into sporty models. He seems to live in an area of San Ramon that is a nice neighbor hood, close to a golf course and such. San Romon is about 40 to 50 miles closer to the city, and there fore house values are higher, thus, why I’m out here in what SF people consider the sticks, homes closer to the bay area are way beyond my means. I would venture that Jimmy’s house is a min of $750 k and could be way above that. I could list today and ask $ 675 k, and if it ends in a bidding war, as much as another $40 to 80 k possible, so imagine being a lot closer to the bay area how costs rise quickly.

The living costs in his area are about the same, as here, so just judging from what facts I know, he should
not have a problem with budgeting the $15k that I was told, if not more if he choose, but then I’m no longer married, so I do not have to deal with the WAF issue. From the prices I have found, and with his declared budget, he should be able to put the package together as he described going with his first choice of speakers. This is where I question his desire to even consider Axioms, only logical reason I can arrive at is
that either the budget is getting to tight for his desires, or he was trying to find a line of less expensive speakers to reduce costs for what ever reasoning.

My first thought is WHY ? I had the opposite issue, the original budget allowed $2 – 3k for amp/processor, when that became an issue, I did not cut back, I seen the need for an additional cost. Did it NEED to be the Halos, no, of course not. Did I like them, could I justify them to myself, could I afford them, after auditioning them….yes. As members on the board did, I suggested considering spending less on the choice of receiver, and pass on the plasma for now, go with the Denon 2900 verses the 3910, which is what members proved to me was a wise choice for the next year or two. That would allow more toward the speaker expenditure, since the speakers are a bit more practical than giving up some quality of the plasma perhaps, my dumb logic again, speakers/power are the primary focus on a new system.

In reading all of his posts, and thinking of all things I was told by him, I’m really finding it to be objective that he was even half serious about his so called interest in Axioms. He questioned Ian’s decision on the way he markets the Axiom products, why there are not Axioms in chain stores, there were not enough reviews in what ever publications he reads and seems to put his trust in. This coming from a person
That states he worked in management/business, he first of all should understand why Axiom are sold the way they are. Call Axiom, you have a live person, that is concerned about the product they sell, and desire to aid the customer in any way they can. Try this with any LARGE chain store, you are lucky to find a knowledgeable manager, and if you have any substantial knowledge about the product you are interested in, you usually know more then the combined sales staff in any given store.

Retail stores like Best Buy, Mag HF, Good Guys, Circuit City and go right down the list, they are okay for the average home user. But any one making a substantial investment usually avoids them, or perhaps audition a product that they may carry which one is interested it, but as for knowledge, I do not listen to them, they know less than I, I’m far from an audio/video expert.

Having had the time to reflect on the comments that I thought were positive from Jimmy well here listening to the system, perhaps they were not as I took them. Perhaps he was actually telling me he felt I had wasted money on the amps, and had totally went beyond the need power for my listening area.
Does not matter, as I said before he is entitled to his opinion, and all I had asked was an honest evaluation well here of my system. Also his telling me he was anxious to audition the Axioms, so he could make a decision, and start his purchasing of equipment, changed to “oh well, I’ve been working on a new system for 10 years, not sure when I will I start buying”.

From his posts, I have no clue what his problem was in regards to the Axiom, but I do know that the sound reproduction he says he heard is a complete opposite of what about 20 other people heave heard.
So either he is tone deaf, is only listening to a two channel system at his home, does not understand what surround speakers actually produce, can not distinguish between a regular CD and a multi channel SACD,
understand 6.1 or 7.1 basic concept. At this point, for myself, I’m no longer giving him benefit of doubt and just accept he heard what he heard. Its basically impossible, unless Ken & Peter find out today that I have wired the speakers wrong, they are facing the wall, or in boxes, and I’m a complete walking fool.

One other thing of interest, Jimmy made the comment that he had contacted four Axiom owners within 100 mile, making it sound like it was a long trip to do an audition. Had he spent a few weeks on the forum, he could have found I think like at least 6 with in an hours driving time or less. So instead of rushing to the auditioning list, all he had to do was chat and get to know people so they knew him a while.

Okay, not going to compete with Mark for long posts, will end this now. Once again, I thank everyone for the great support, and for supporting my choices and not condemning for the amount of money I choose to spend. Ya only live once, and at this point in my life and my old age, I do, as I damn well want.
.

_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85759 - 03/20/05 11:39 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
All I can say is, in reading about your journey with the Halos - how you initially bought from one store and, when they didn't live up to your expectations, requested and got a refund, and then negotiated a great deal from another vendor including an agreement to a complete refund if you were not satisfied - I was respectfully doffing my hat to your negotiating skills. That's way beyond my abilities. I think, for the greater part of my life, I've looked like a Tootsie-pop to most salesman. However, finally in my dotage, I'm getting somewhat better at holding my own, but I'm still a long way from your level.

There is no way of knowing for sure what is going on with Jimmy, and why he did what he did. So, for me to speculate is just an exercise in irresponsibility. But his behavior was most inexplicable.

Watch out for Peter and Ken. I've had Peter here in my home, and found him to be a bright, friendly, and fun young man. I enjoyed his company very much. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Ken, but I like, very much, his presence here on the forum. Just don't let them try to convince you there is something terrifically wrong with your system, and graciously offer to take it off your hands for next to nothing. Just box their ears and send them on their way.

Seriously, have a great time.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#85760 - 03/20/05 12:07 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
Oh, like either of us could get the M80s in the door without being shot by our wives...


My wife adds, "Well, if they were free, maybe."
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#85761 - 03/20/05 12:10 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Was just going to reply to Jack, there are three of us here, so safety in numbers or something like that, and getting four Halos in any less than a SUV is a task. LOL
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85762 - 03/20/05 12:52 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Just don't let them try to convince you there is something terrifically wrong with your system, and graciously offer to take it off your hands for next to nothing.

Darn it. Busted !!!

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#85763 - 03/20/05 01:14 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Seabear Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
Dennis,
You are a Class Act.
These Forums are lucky to have you.
If for no other reason than to get to go look at what 4 (or is it 6 by now, I can't keep track.)Halos look like stacked up next to each other!
(just kidding!)
Good on ya!
Tom
_________________________
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

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#85764 - 03/20/05 01:55 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Ha! That was it.

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#85765 - 03/20/05 02:04 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>OK, what movie was dodecahedron in? The only reason I recall that (12 sided right?) was from a movie.

It predates movies (well, DVDs anyways). When I was in grade 4 or something our teacher found an "activity book" which showed how to teach kiddies about geometry by having them make a dodecahedron out of disposable coffee cups.

It was a total disaster. The book was based on paper coffee cup inserts which happened to have exactly the right angle for 12 cups to fit together neatly (albeit with circular faces instead of pentagons). We used styrofoam cups and needed about 75 cups to make a big wobbly "lotsahedron" about the size of a small-block V8.


Edited by bridgman (03/20/05 02:05 PM)

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#85766 - 03/20/05 05:22 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
simboticus Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 134
Loc: SF bay area
It's hard for me to really rate the Outlaw sub I don't have much to compare it to. I do like it, and think it was worth the ~$600, My previous sub was a home made unit based on the NHT 1259 driver and Parts Express 250w amp. The Outlaw is definitely better, better power handling, tighter. I haven't A/B'ed it with any other sub though.



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#85767 - 03/20/05 05:42 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
I like my Outlaw sub. It resides in my great room hidden behind a couch. I use it and the M80's for stereo only. Damn thing will rattle the windows if I turn it up. My great room is 28 X 32 with vaulted ceilings and a loft above (custom log home). Peak is 23 feet. Ten foot ceiling height under the loft areas. I usually keep the crossover set to 80 and volume at 50%. At 65%, the grates on the windows rattle 20 feet away. Besides being loud, it's very tight as well.

As far as the main content of this thread, I'm thinking everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however stinky it is (cause we all know opinions are like A-holes - we all have one). Let Jimmy have his and stop slapping him around. Anyone who has any intellect whatsoever can read between his fuzzy lines and come up with their own conclusions to the nature of his objective here. Relax Denis, you're with friends and we're all quite jealous and wishing we had your system. I'll be taking a Napa Valley wine tasting trip next fall (five guys and a limo for a week..should be fun.....LOL). I would love to see your beautiful home and listen to your system when I'm there, if you'd by so inclined.

.........mike
_________________________


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#85768 - 03/20/05 08:35 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
smokey Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 85
very interesting thread to say the least. i would just like to say a couple of things. mabey three. one comment is to tharkun. i can't belive you would let a total stranger come to your house and let him step near those halos and m80s. i would sooner leave a stranger by my kids then by halos and axioms(lol just kidding). but i would think twice about it(lol). second that was a very nice thing to do and to have someone like that say that, is a bellow the belt shot in my book. i find it interesting that jimmy has not replyed probally the best thing hes done. wouldn't want to sound more stupid then he already has. also the comment on parasound being useless well i wish i had 4 useless halos to go with my axioms (lol). all in all it just doesn't pay to be nice anymore. people just have no manners or respect for people who help them out ( not all but most).

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#85769 - 03/20/05 08:45 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
JSkip Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/30/04
Posts: 193
Loc: New Jersey
I've given four auditions and each one was great. All the guys were polite and very appreciative. I enjoy it because I get to meet new people and talk about speakers, receivers, music, movies, etc.

Don't let one knucklehead ruin it.

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#85770 - 03/20/05 08:56 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

The movie was Contact, with Jodie Foster.


I'd shoot a president for her...

Biscuit for the first one to catch the reference. *G*

Bren R.

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#85771 - 03/20/05 10:34 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
You're refering to the nut-job that shot our late beloved President Ronald Reagan?
Or is it a movie quote we're supposed to identify?
You ask hard questions. Here's one for you: What color panties is my wife wearing right now?

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#85772 - 03/20/05 10:43 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

What color panties is my wife wearing right now




Jeeeeez, I hope it's not the pink ones again! I really like the......................ah.....................nevermind!

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#85773 - 03/21/05 06:09 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Nah, the thing with Jimmy has not upset be all that much, I have just posted my thoughs, and I have seen him checking the posts on this thread, so I know he is reading and just not replying.

And after people read Peter & Kens post about their visit, and thier opinions of the system, it will void out anything that Jimmy commented on. I'm sure and I wil have many more people listen and post a response, and doubt if any will be totally negative like this first tone.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85774 - 03/21/05 09:58 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Don't get your hopes up. They're probably poring through the thesaurus right now looking for "another word for boomy and over-powered"...

JUST KIDDING !!!


Edited by bridgman (03/21/05 10:04 AM)

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#85775 - 03/21/05 11:28 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
DL30 Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 102
Loc: San Carlos, IL
"You talkin to me?"

Travis Bickle

Taxi Driver
_________________________
DL

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#85776 - 03/21/05 02:11 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Yes, Will... I'm talking about John Hickley Jr. - who shot Reagan and Brady to get Jodi Foster's attention. Every time I see Jody Foster onscreen, I'll let that joke go to see who's up on their 24 year old current events.

Like mentioning to a group that a girl obviously unskilled in walking in heels looks like an AT-AT walker... the geeks will laugh at the Star Wars reference, the uber-geeks will correct you that the two-legged ones are AT-ST walkers.

Helps sort out what kind of people you know.

Bren R.

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#85777 - 03/21/05 02:52 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16257
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
If I ever meet you in person, I'll be sure to choose my words carefully.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#85778 - 12/30/05 01:55 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>I'm going out this afternoon to try out a gas-electric hybrid, knowing full well I want a big ol' SUV with 40" tires... then go onto the Prius forums and complain about cargo space and ground clearance.

I stumbled across this thread (the original "Jimmy slags Dennis' system" post) while searching for the "Three Dump Chili" recipe (which I found in another thread).

I had to chuckle -- I was just thinking yesterday that if I had the $$ I would take a Ford Excursion to one of those custom shops and have a hybrid drivetrain installed, something that would let me drive slowly around the city on just electric and regenerative braking, and auto-start a big diesel when needed for towing and highway cruising

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#85779 - 12/31/05 01:02 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
aabouganem Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 81
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Interesting thread I must say.

it pops a question from my side:

I want to offer my system for auditions because I do appreciate the Axiom quality sound, its money value, and its customer service (apparently I will move shortly anyway, because of work, doesnt know yet where), but I have been thinking on how well I have set up in order to impress the audiotionees instead of showing them a "bad system" (by bad I mean wrongly setup).

I have read this forum for over a year (I joined in Dec 2004, but I got my first Axioms about June 2004 if I remember well), and I have learned a lot. I am also a "just a reader" member of other forums (this is the only one I have posted more than 5 times). I have not been at home for a month (vacations). So as soon as I go back, I need to setup again the system (it is disconnected because I send the preamp for upgrade and the ICBM for repair), and possibly I am getting the SMS-1 and a second EP500 before end of february.

my point is, after following this thread, that I am not sure of how good I can show the system, and avoid jackasses to make such comments and make anonymous readers to dislike the Axioms. I understand that the Axiom sound is not for everyone (took myself a while to understand that the M22 were not sibilant, but some of my records were, for example).

So, to conclude, if any member of this forum, at anytime go as far as Mcallen, Texas, if you can spare the time to listen to my system before I offer it for audition, so I can make sure that I have done everything I have learn from this and other forums, papers and troubleshooting, its been done as much it can be done in the room where its located, and show the real capabilities of the Axioms.

One of the things that make me want to audition, is the amount of bad systems I have seen in my friends houses (by bad I mean bad like Bose Acoustimass... and wrongly setup). I have compared 4 B&G Radia X3 hybrids that I did take them home and A/B check them againt the M80's to show my friend what I was trying to describe of the sound. I like the hybrid ribbon tweeter though!! but the mids were not as clear as the M80´s. That was my first experience auditioning/comparing speakers. And since that day, I have show off my Axioms trying to convert people that is investing the budget of an Axiom systems in other speakers from Ebay.

Happy New Year for everyone.

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#85780 - 12/31/05 10:07 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
Hi Alberto! I'm in the DFW area. Where is Mcallan?
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#85781 - 12/31/05 10:54 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bray Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1791
Loc: Colorado
Mike
Mcallen is in the valley. Waaayyyy south Texas.
My bro use to live there.
_________________________
LIFE IS SHORT.
DON'T BE A DICK.

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#85782 - 12/31/05 11:11 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
aabouganem Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 81
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Mcallen is almost in Mexico... its not a bad place like others in the border, where fellonies ocurrs constantly. Its quite nice. I have been there for almost 2 years now, and I can tell that is growing fast (someone told me that was among the 4 fastest growth cities in the US, but I dont even call it a city, because the lack of a downtown).

Look in the Frappr map Axiom Owners, and you will have an idea of mi location.



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