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#94511 - 05/16/05 10:50 PM Re: Amplifiers
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3881
Loc: Up yonder
I'm a believer that higher current makes a difference in SQ, not necessarily just 'loudness'. I think you'll find that most folks who run high current amps will agree. I wouldn't get all hung up on the loudness debate.

I'm pretty new to all this, so I may be full of it.
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#94512 - 05/16/05 11:22 PM Re: Amplifiers
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

I'm a believer that higher current makes a difference in SQ




You are not alone. I have been on the amps versus watts bandwagon for years............and have taken many lumps for it but I still believe it.

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#94513 - 05/16/05 11:24 PM Re: Amplifiers
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
Bren: what is there about clipping that will damage a speaker? There is all sorts of music with all sorts of wild power/ frequency swings.

Just curious.

The Rat.
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The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#94514 - 05/16/05 11:34 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
There are many of you amp people out there.

Since higher amps like your 1080 (200) don't produce that much more loudness (again Alan's Newsletter articles), I guess I won't know the difference until I try it.

Maybe an Outlaw in my future. That 30 day trial may be the only way to tell.

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#94515 - 05/16/05 11:37 PM Re: Amplifiers
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

what is there about clipping that will damage a speaker?




http://www.rane.com/note128.html

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#94516 - 05/16/05 11:41 PM Re: Amplifiers
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5328
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Interesting link... well worth reading.

Do we agree with it ?

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#94517 - 05/17/05 12:40 AM Re: Amplifiers
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
Let me ask a question like this: would my m60s (rated at 250 watts) peform better with a 200 wpc or 130 wpc? I am not talking about deafening listening levels, just normal.

Also, do you guys think it is necessary to calibrate a 2 channel system with a SPL meter?
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#94518 - 05/17/05 01:07 AM Re: Amplifiers
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

Let me ask a question like this: would my m60s (rated at 250 watts) peform better with a 200 wpc or 130 wpc? I am not talking about deafening listening levels, just normal.




Nope. Be almost the same.

In reply to:

Also, do you guys think it is necessary to calibrate a 2 channel system with a SPL meter?




If you had a sub yes, 2 front speakers and nothing else, nope.



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#94519 - 05/17/05 01:09 AM Re: Amplifiers
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
In reply to:

Do we agree with it ?




There are some very well respected Engineers referred to in that article. I'm not qualified to agree or disagree with it as I wouldn't have a clue where to start.


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#94520 - 05/17/05 01:25 AM Re: Amplifiers
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

Bren: what is there about clipping that will damage a speaker? There is all sorts of music with all sorts of wild power/ frequency swings.


The easy answer - when a signal is clipped, it's turned into somewhat of a square wave, which increases all the harmonics in the form of distortion (on a S/S amp - it's odd order distortion and sounds like crap... on a tube amp - it's even order distortion and sounds musical, this distortion is what gives the "tube sound") want to see what clipping looks like on an oscilloscope? Get a piece of letter sized paper, I'll wait.

Got it? Good... now draw a camel's humps - say ten of them... a wavy line about 2" high total, half the humps below an imaginary centre line, half above...
---/\/\/\/\/\--- like that only rounded - there's a sine wave - I drew a triangle wave in ASCII there and if it looked like ---|\|\|\|\--- that would be a sawtooth waveform... anyone that played with early digital synths should recognize those. But I digress. Now draw the same thing, only 12" high (but you're not allowed to go off the page - flatten out the peaks. It's starting to look like a square wave (or pulse wave) now.

But why does a pulse/square wave destroy speakers? Honestly, I'm not sure if anyone knows. Yes, there is a lot more "oomph" to them because of all the harmonics... but as the harmonic intervals get further away from the fundamental (original) wave, they get less powerful very quickly.

In short - I personally can't tell you why it happens, just that it does. Alan? Your opinion?

As for music with "swings" in frequency and amplitude - that's really not what we're talking about here. Well, unless you set the volume for the diminished level and the elevated levels push the amp into a clipping state.

Bren R.

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