Adrian and I have been PMing each other with woodworking stuff, and it occurred to me that there are a few others here that are woodworkers.

Anyone want to join a woodworking gang?

Well, it'll really just be a PM thread, there's no leather involved or anything....

Though if it's OK with everyone, I could put a Frank Poncherello poster on the wall....next to Norm Abrams'.

Who supplies the viagra?

Everyone must wear an Al Borland checkered shirt, by the way.

I live in New Hampshire, and Adrian lives in Canada.

That means we have extra shirts if someone needs one.

I don't have any checkered shirts, but there's a 10" belt driven table saw in the corner of my bedroom. Does that count?

I'd like to be a woodworker, but I don't have the space. Or the spare money at the moment.

Sounds like Jeff Foxworthy...

Sure...wood working is one of my 'other' hobbies. My new mortise cutter arrived today! No more cutting them with my drill press and chisels!

I think I'll stay away from any threads that talk about who's sporting wood.

Does it count if I just work other people's wood?

You know, like strip, fill, sand and oil or urethane other people's wood?

Bren R.

(yes, Peter... I left that wide open)

Count me in, although I don't get as much time to play with my wood as much as I would like.

I had a wisecrack remark about that Jay involving butt hinges and biscuit joiners but I realized I sounded too much like Larry the Cable Guy.

Other than that though, I'd enjoy a wood working thread. I'm no master craftsman so I'll think of it as taking a virtual apprenticeship.

This weekends project involves putting new shocks and a front diff skid plate on my Jeep. Oh wait, none of that involves wood.

Actually, one of my prized possessions used to be a super detailed, hand carved Jeep with painstakingly carved working leaf springs. The detail was incredible and the maker called it a 'toy' and was selling it for only 40 bucks. He must have put months into the thing. Alas, it rolled off of the shelf of our old house during Hurricane Juan and Cosmo, my trusty dog, decided he should be helpful and pick it up for me. He couldn't quiet figure out how to get his teeth around it securely so it was three chomps before he had tight and brought it over to me all proud with his tail wagging. What could I say, except, Good Dog!

Heck, we've got the beginnings of our own Blue Collar Comedy Tour! That's some good stuff raht tharr...

I want in!

I am not sure if this topic is pertinant to this thread - but here goes.......

I posted in another thread my agonies over purchasing from the Factory Outlet or waiting to save enough to go to the Custom Wood Shop. One of the regulars - Zimm, I think - suggested that I go with the Outlet and then do my own wood veneer. Couple of questions:

Axiom's Custom Wood Shop - does anyone know how thick or substantial their veneer is? From all the raves and reviews, I understand it to be of high quality - so the point of the question is could I even come close to replicating myself?

Wood Veneer in general - I am - ok - with wood working. I would not say that I could call it a hobby because I don't do enough of it - but I am ok at it and could call it a pleasant distraction. The thing about me when I do something - like home repair or improvement I generally overkill it and do it better than most that I could hire to do it. So.....having said that, how difficult a job would it be to do the veneer here in the home?

Thirdly, what type of veneer would I be looking for and where would a person typically get that veneer? I think Zimm recommended Paper backed?

Argon, I think Charles(Zimm) recommended paper backed for ease of installation for the first timer, non paper backed is a different type of installation. There are some tutorials on the 'net about veneer installation/applying usually on some of the veneer suppliers, for eg. this one .

Yeah... Zimm is the Veneer guy!

Honestly, my original purpose in posting here was to see if there were 5 people that might be interested in "getting together" off the forums in a PM thread (limit: 5 people). I know I've enjoyed "off the forum" PM threads, as you don't have to worry about things being "public" or politically-correct. I guess the PMs seem to me like five guys talking at a table, instead of five guys talking in into mics on a stage!

It seems like there's more than five that might be interested, though... so why not try this in the forums? For all I know, it'll die out after a week. Or, it could end up like the wine-lover's thread or the beer-lover's thread... though I assume that one has much wider interest!

Anyway, I'm going to start by introducing my "woodworking self"... hopefully others will chime in with their woodworking alter-ego...

Like many, I became interested in high school Wood Shop classes. I never really was interested in metalworking or any of the other shop classes.

In my senior year, I built this as my first project... (I don't remember for the life of me how I passed the time until I built this):



In hindsight, it was pretty simplistic, but served it's purpose well for a few years in college.

There was a woodworking lull after high school until Joyce and I bought a house in 1990, at which time I bought a Craftsman tablesaw, a Delta bandsaw a Delta drill press and a house-brand 6"x48" belt / 9" disc combination sander. To this point, I've never really attempted furniture, but always built practical, needed things, often for my business.

My old editing and duplication station. Only photo I could find... Ignore the blurry parts on the fringe, it was part of a montage where it was "morphing" into other photos to produce this whole big, morphing promo piece that I created before I knew anything about Photoshop. It had "under counter lighting" above the audio and video mixers (oooohhh....aahhhh), a section designed for rackmount equipment and a separate section to hold globs of VCRs for duplication:



An oak copystand... You mount a still or video camera (facing down) on the column, put flat artwork on the base to photograph it. The pieces on the sides were adjustable and held lights on an angle to avoid reflections:



A little more recently, a mobile workstation in Maple to house my duplicators and a single disc printer (my duplication capabilities have increased, but I still use this station):



The only decorative thing I think I ever built was this oak/glass enclosure for a model car for a friend... really more of a joke-gift than anything else, but decided to do a "this is your craftsman grandfathers' workbench" photo of it as a self-assignment. A little heavy on the soft focus, but I didn't know Photoshop at that point either... or I would now back off on the soft focus :



Anyway, I've never built a table or a chair or anything that qualifies as furniture... mostly practical stuff.

With my decision to not photograph concerts this year, I decided I'm going to spend more time golfing, kayaking, woodworking and taking on projects around the house. So, in the last 6-9 months, I bought a Jet jointer, a Jet 1.5 HP dust collector system (and built a PVC infrastructure for it), a router table and bigger Triton Router, and recently, a Ridgid tablesaw and Ridgid Planer. I've also bought a TON of smaller things here and there... lots of pipe clamps, blades, Router bits, and various contraptions of all types. Next, I'm looking at Dovetail Jigs and like Mike, I want a Mortiser. Last night, I bought an Incra Miter Gauge that's on sale at Amazon (ENDS THIS WEEKEND...HURRY, HURRY!!)

I need to prioritize home-improvement projects over coming "furniture" projects, but I'm revamping and reorganizing my workshop area to prepare for all this. First up is drawers/cabinets for the workshop, then I'm going to rebuild a section of drawers in the kitchen.

OK, who's next??

OK, if we're doing this show and tell thing...

This is the first (and only) thing I've ever built. I'm very proud of it (although there were a few bumps in the road), and I really enjoyed doing it.



It's made of white oak, which was a joy to work with. It also has doors now (this was taken back when I had the M50s).

Wow, Ken... very very nice! Nicer than anything I've ever built! Where's the photos with the doors?

Was it made from plans or are you one of those people that make it up as you go along??? Sure doesn't look it!!!

Well, mine is nothing to write home about, but this was my first project. It's very simple, but I'm proud because I built it from scratch. A couple of amp stands for my tube amps:



Both of my Grandpa's worked with wood. One was a carpenter and the other liked to whittle. I've always enjoyed admiring woodworking but have never really jumped into it like I've wanted. I hope to get some ideas sparked from this thread!

Yeah, Ken, I still can't believe that was your first project! That looks really nice!!

The "home improvement" route is what has started me off into the woodworking hobby. Back in high school, woodshop was probably my favourite course of all, something I always looked forward to...on the flipside, I disliked machine shop so it was only natural that I become a Tool & Die maker and work in a M/C shop for over 20 yrs later on

So, a couple of years ago, I began renovating my home, which is now 17 yrs old, not that old but, needing some updating. I decided to start with some 3/4" hardwood floors throughout the main floor, so I ripped up all the broadloom, bought a Makita belt sander and took out the peaks in the floor and shimmed the lower spots. I had to replace one 4x8 floor section because the patio doors had leaked and rotted the floor area next to them...the sliding doors were replaced with twin garden doors. Next, a 3/8 subfloor was laid down, with a layer of tar paper stapled over top as a vapour barrier and to allow the hardwood to move with temp/humidity changes. The wood I chose is called Acashi, it grows in Africa and has a very rich reddish-brown patina and very intricate grain to it....it is mistakenly referred to as African Walnut, when in fact, it is in the Mahogany family of woods.

Since I was redoing the entire main floor, I figured I'd also repaint the walls and change the crappy 3" baseboards to some 4 1/2" baseboard as well as install some chair rails, wainscot, picture rails ect depending on which room and also add crown moulding throughout the house.

Next, I redid the washrooms and powder room, tearing up the lino and replacing it with ceramics using the concrete board/thinset style of installation, afterwhich I replaced/updated all the faucettes (I still haven't replaced the lighting yet).

In the kitchen, I redid the cabinets in off-white melamine(from natural oak), added a granite backsplash, trimmed the underside of the cabinets and installed puck lighting. The lino floors were redone in ceramics using the concrete board method, this time I cut some of the tiles into quarter sections to create a custom/staggered look, which turned out nicely. I added various transition pieces for the ceramic/hardwood steps, then changed the beautiful builder's 'globe' lights with a 2x4 flourescent in the main kitchen and a light/fan in the breakfast nook.

I've done a few other renos on top of these but, as such, I've accumulated a number of tools to do these projects...Porter Cable compressor, Bostitch floor(cleate) nailer, 12" sliding Craftsman Mitre saw, Ridgid table saw, Makita belt sander, ect. I've also picked up a few tools (when the price was to good to resist) that I will use down the road, perhaps to build a cottage or workshop(Bostitch Framing nailers, F28ww and the Strapshot nailer, bostitch palm nailer and Milwaukee roofing nailer).

So, lately I helped one of my neighbours build an armoire for his sister out in Quebec which he will deliver next week, and it has perked my interest to try making some furniture or something other than doing home reno's. I know I'll need a lot more tools still, I've recently picked up the 13" Ridgid planer and am presently looking to buy a Router and Biscuit Joiner(will need a jointer someday too! and clamps, a band saw, oscillating sander...)

Sorry about the lack of pictures, I need to pick up a decent(but not expensive) digital camera and I'll post some shots if I can(also of the speakers!)

So, I hopefully we can get a thread going here, where people can get/give advice re woodworking or if someone sees a good deal on some equip't they might want to pass along, feel free.

Mine was definitely from a plan--found it in a magazine at my friend's house. He said we could knock out a couple in a weekend. My wife purchased the wood for the project, and over a year later, I finished the cabinet! That's when I got clearance to order the M50s.

My friend's cabinet is still $200 worth of cut pieces of wood sitting in his garage. Weekend my ass.

Adrian, sounds like your project just snowballed. Glad to hear that it turned out well. As for a camera, I recommend one of the little Canon Powershots--they're quit inexpensive (~$100) and take decent pictures.

Nice cabinet, Ken. You should try a new project....Yes, my renos did snowball, lol, but it was worth it.

Unfortunately, the woodworking tools I have access to are over 100 miles away. When I have a house... ahaha. Like I'll have money for tools after I buy a house.

Oh, no! No Regina concert pics for me!

And that was a great little history of your woodworking experiences. I would love to know how to make stuff like that, but it's such an intimidating hobby to me.

Well, so far, Regina isn't scheduled.

Jack will be mad at me, though, as Diana Krall is !

Adrian, I had decided I wanted you as a neighbor even before reading about the armoire!

I really, really envy all that "handyman" knowledge. There are SO many projects in this 110-year-old house that I would love to try, but it really scares me to bite off more than I can chew!

Sean, I don't remember how you made use of both those pieces(??!!??).

I only see feet on one?

Mike:
What kind of Mortiser did you get? I was kind of eyeing a Jet desktop...

110 yr old house is a little different than a 17 yr old house as far as renos go Mark. It would be nice to capture/take advantage of some of the history in your area/house if you started any projects, though.
As far as tackling new projects goes, I think being in the toolmaking trade helped alot...having to solve problems as they arose when building machinery, you didn't have too much time either so you needed to come up with a solution, then make the parts in the shop. I tend to look at alot of things in respects to "how they are made" and "I can make/do that".
Beware about renos though, you may find yourself starting into other projects along the way....I'll do the bathroom floor in ceramics...hmmm, maybe update the plumbing while I'm at it...heck, if I update the plumbing I'll install a new shower unit...gotta install a new toilet with matching faucettes to go with that....I wonder how much new cabinets are?
From the work you've showed us, I'm sure you'd be fine tackling some reno projects, Mark. Just don't try to get away with cutting corners in the wrong places, and don't talk yourself out of a project because you think it's overwhelming. Start with a smaller job to fertilize your ego a bit before you build a third story above your house

Is that one of those chain mortisers?

The only pic I can find of my last big project



There are shelves just above the coats now.

Wow, are the white stripes on that jacket made out of halo material?

Yes, my son is an angel

Jay- Nice!! My sister needs / wants something like that!

Nope. Of course, I don't know what a chain mortiser is!

Example of a chain mortiser

Pretty cool!

I've always wanted to build a log home. Is that all I need?

You don't even need that, just a swiss army knife from what I've heard.

Anyone own a router out there(the wood kind of course)? I'm looking at a Triton router, seems to have some good features on it, also considering a Milwaukee.

I'll abstain re: the router since we've already PM'd about it.

What you were saying regarding the Home Improvements is exactly my problem. The two major areas where I want to do work (the kitchen and the main bathroom) really will require a total rebuild as far as I'm concerned.

For example, here is our pantry, off the kitchen:


We have to replace the faucet and sink. If we do that, we have to rebuild the counters from where the old big-azz sink was. And, we have to redo the backsplash.

I already need to redo the drawers (not visible on the lower right) and the floor is dark, ugly and in poor shape. Oh yeah, the floor is asbestos too.

Our main bathroom is the same type of thing. We only have a freestanding tub that we converted with a portable shower hose, permanantly mounted (the plumbing side of the tub is in front of the window, so there's no wall). If we remove the tub, we would likely replace it with a standing shower and it would need to be moved to another location. To do that, we would have to move the radiator. Replace the old sink, cabinet and toilet, and we would have to replace the flooring. This is the bathroom that is prone to pipe freezes in the winter, and the pipes go right above the windy in the pantry photo. So, it would be dumb not to take care of that while we're doing everything else.

Before we know it, we've got $20,000 worth of work to do in the bathroom and $50,000 in the kitchen!

So yeah.... I'm hesitant to get myself into it! Especially with the "frustration factor" of having a kitchen or your main bathroom (only place to shower!) under construction!

For the kitchen, why not consider keeping the cabinets but replacing the doors only, replace the counter top(a nice granite one) and new sink, and backsplash. Then ceramic the floors. I'm sure you could do this for less than $5G total, probably less than $3 if you bought yourself a Freud rail/stile cutter You could make your own counter top from 3/4" ply and ceramic the top of it, as another option(cheaper, still looks nice).

You can get a stand-up shower/tub combo if you have the room for it. Some of these are in 2 or 3 sections to make it easier to move into place and install, also some have a closed top vs open top. Getting involved with a lot of plumbing changes is something I'd only do if you're going to stay in your house. Why not get a couple of estimates with no obligation, you might steal some ideas from the contractor!

Without getting too personal, Mark, are your pipes exposed on the outside of the house?

Good idea on the thread Mark. Many years ago when internet forums were the ‘new’ thing, I stumbled onto one called Badger Pond Woodworking. I was very fortunate to get some sage advice when I first started dabbling in woodworking. I had conversations with some very reputable individuals and authors of books. Sadly, the forum was shut down as it was being run from an individual’s home PC and he just couldn’t afford to keep it running. I haven’t found another since then that had the same friendly atmosphere. It was similar to these boards…..

So anyway, my history with woodworking is about like everyone else’s. I am self taught and consider myself a novice. I learned quite a bit watching Norm’s show. He’s one of my hero’s..LOL. Working with my hands is something I enjoy. It really doesn’t matter what it is, it just comes naturally to me. I have no other talents, unfortunately… Woodworking relaxes me. My day job can be pretty stressful and this is a good distraction for me to ‘turn it all off’. I love the smell of fresh cut hardwoods and the hum of a finally balanced table saw. I build all sorts of stuff. From furniture (no chairs!) to cabinets to houses. I justify the expense of tools and machines by the fact that they cost less than what I would pay a professional to do for me. I do some odd things for friends / family and they pay me what it costs me for materials and tools, plus they do me favors (it works). I have an LLC and one of my ‘companies’ is md woodworks. I also do odd remodels, finish work and act as general contractor for home building (md construction). I make just enough to show a profit and keep the IRS from hunting me down. My other business is md motor works. I build high end street / strip and race engines. I haven’t done much with this the last two or three years though. I don’t really have a shop large enough for engine stands and woodworking machines. Plus, assembly lube, grinding dust and sawdust don’t mix well…. Some day I hope to be in a position financially where I can make enough to make ends meet doing this, but not so much I no longer enjoy it. That’s the ‘plan’ anyway. I suppose I should mention I absolutely HATE finishing. I do not have a spray booth, so everything is by brush and it friggin sucks.

Mark,

I love the maple desk. Is that curly maple? Very, very nice work. The mortise cutter I bought is a Delta bench top. It’s not the one I want, but I do not have room for a free standing unit. I went with Delta because I already have a set of cutters that I bought years ago with a Delta drill press attachment. I never did use it because I went out and bought a Rigid drill press and the attachment won’t fit. I ordered it from Amazon and they sent it to me with free shipping. All other places I looked wanted about $250 to ship one to me. It was a no-brainer. I have a cabinet to build that I plan to use M/T joinery, so I hope to try it out next week.

I also use a Rigid table saw. I see that I’m not alone. I really want a cabinet saw with a 50” fence, but I just don’t have room for one. The Rigid sucks when working with sheet goods, but I’ve learned to deal with that. I use an Incra miter gauge, have for years and absolutely love that thing. You’ll love yours too.

I built my own router table. I used Norm’s router table plan and love it too. I use a 3 ½ horse Hitachi plunge router with it. I made it a wee bit larger than the plan, but basically followed it pretty close. If anyone is in the market for a router table, I recommend building this one. The plan even comes with a video. It’s straight forward and simple.

A few other tools I’ve acquired and use frequently: Jet 6” joiner, Jet 12” bandsaw, Rigid 13” plainer, Jet dust collector, Porter Cable 24” dovetail cutter with adjustable templates and sliding dovetail template (the ‘old’ style). I have several routers, but always tend to grab my old faithful Porter Cable. I use a Dewalt biscuit cutter a lot too. Then of course there’s a few grand worth of misc router bits, table saw blades, dado cutters, jig saws, Betsy clams (never, never can you have enough clamps). I have an assortment of pneumatic nailers and staplers. My favorite is my old Makita 18 gauge brad nailer. Another thing I use all the time is a table saw sled that I built. I use it for cross cutting panels on the table saw. I can’t believe how long I struggled without this thing.

Rigid table saw here as well.

Okay, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I mean, if you weren't forsaking this gig for something during which you could lose a finger or worse, I'd really wonder about you.

I jealous of all y'alls talent and skills.

See, this is why I need you as a neighbor. You're so confident that you make this stuff sound easy! (Well, I already have bought a rail/stile bit set in anticipation of this and other projects!). And, what do I do with the asbestos-laden flooring? Bury it in my my neighbor's backyard?

I actually would only replace the cabinet doors (and matching face trim). Part of the "experiment" within building that spice rack was matching the finish to the finish that's (freakin') everywhere in this kitchen.. including the walls!

I'm not sure how well I would do with the granite or tile counters. I really think I'd have to leave that to experts.

Much of the problem here is that nothing is exactly square or level, so everything always has to be jury rigged.



Yeah, the enclosure is what we were planning. We're planning on being here for a long haul, because it's a good location for the business.


No, but they are above that pantry in an area that's just open to the rear porch roof. I cut a good sized hole in the pantry ceiling and was surprised to see a large uninsulated area that had air at about -15° pouring out of it as if it were a wide-open window. I put a square of plywood over it and told myself I'd cut it bigger in March/May and try to see exactly what's up there!

I have a regular "Day" job - my wife and I also buy houses and fix them up. The original intent was to flip them but the bottom fell out and we fix them up and rent them out. We went slow enough that we were not impacted. We bought all the houses low enough that the rent we collect is almost double the mortgage payment. When you buy houses like this, often you get into serious renovation work. It amazes me that people will just ignore water leaks until their entire bathroom or kitchen floor is rotten - including the joists underneath. My brother showed me the ropes - the first time you take your circular saw and set it to 1 1/2 inch deep and then cut the floor out is a bit intimidating. SO - you get into some rough woodwork when you start sistering joists and jacking up sagging floors.

On the lighter side, I have built cabinets where I took some fir that had fine grain and routed down a side to make it look like the tongue and groove paneling that was frequently used in the 60's. They came out pretty good. One christmas I did a lot of trays for all the ladies in the family. I'd post some pics if someone can point me to a thread that walks me through the pic posting process........

Posting photos on the Axiom boards isn't too bad.

Open a free account at Photobucket.com. Check out this FAQ and the "Photobucket Overview" questions on the left. You'll want to make your photos smallish so they don't end up gigantic when posted.

After you've uploaded images, hover over the image that you want to post here in the forums. A little box will pop up under the image. Move your mouse over the bottom one and click it to copy it (on some computers it will copy the info as you click it, others you'll have to copy the info).

Now, in the Axiom forums, click "paste" in a text box when composing a message and it'll put in all the right info. You can preview your Axiom post to make sure it worked!

I've considered fixing up/selling homes before but never tried it. In a good housing market, I'm sure it's a viable way to make some coin. In the US, do they hit you on Capital Gains tax like they do in Canada. Here, if you sell your primary residence, you are not taxed on any capital profits but if you sell a second house or cottage which is NOT your primary residence the gov't dings you for something like 50% of the gain(assuming there is one).

Mark, I have no idea what one does with asbestos.... maybe send it to China so they can make toys, drywall, or clothing out of it or something...

I feel the same exact way. I have a running gag with Joyce where I come up from the shop at the end of the day, act like I just remembered something important and say "CRAP! You know what I forgot while I was down in the woodshop?" She feigns along and asks "what?" and I reply "Everything!" with a smile!



Which one? I just bought the 3630 for $330 because Home Depot


was making room for the new Granite-topped ones. It's not the cabinet saw I planned on retiring with, but better than my Craftsman as it has a much better fence and better rip capacity, dust collection, great mobile base setup... etc.



It's funny how many tools we have in common. I forgot to mention in my "about me" post that I bought a Porter Cable bicuit joiner and compressor/3 gun setup that I love!

Good to have you in the gang! If I could ever build a piece of furniture as nice as Ken, a wine room as nice as yours, or the rest of my house as good as Adrian, I'd die a happy man!

My some of you have nice toys. My table saw is a Rexon. Never heard of them? They're made in the same factory as all those brand name jobies, but cost a lot less.

I can't say I have made a lot. My first major piece was an aquarium stand I made in a class at my local college. Got to use their shaper, planers 'n stuff to make it pannel construction out of cherry.

My last project was a canoe seat using hand cut mortice & tennon joints. It was surprisingly easy.

$330.00 is a steal for that table saw Mark. Mine was $350.00 CN, it's the portable version of the Ridgid.

Ummmm....photos?

C'mon, Fred..... you know the forum rules.

We're just letting Adrian off the hook at the moment because he's building a camera from a wood block.

Yeah, that's why I couldn't pass it up. I still had enough left over from the CFO's "WoodShow Budget" to get the planer, and everything else I wanted except a dovetail jig, so why not?

I,m waiting on a chunk of Bubinga from Cameroon, they take the best pictures.

Only if you're willing to carry around all that weight.

I build my cameras out of basswood.

BASSwood would be good for subs wouldn't it?

Funny guy!

Of course, lots of people call it BASE...one of my pet peeves!

I use the table top Rigid saw as well with the folding stand, need a bigger garage or dedicated room to use anything else. Anything I use has to be put away and be as compact as possible, we actually park cars in our garage too, which was very nice today considering the foot of snow we just received

You guys are just way too talented. If the need ever arises I'd probably do *OK* with framing and rough out but with finishing, I'd have to leave to you experts.

Great stuff guys!

Amazon has a Hitachi M12VC 2 1/4hp router for $103.91 right now.

Not sure if any of you might be interested in this sort of thing but I am a member to this and there are some good benefits, monthly magazine, how to books(extra cost) especially for those in the States, special pricing on some things and such. You also get a chance to try out some new tools for reviews and such , if you are so inclined.

http://www.handymanclub.com/Main/default.aspx

Mark,

Regarding your asbestos floor, I know a thing or two about abatement. I can give you tips for removing it safely, per regulation, but that will have to be via PM or phone.

Today is a road trip. I need to drive about 600 miles to get some more 'stuff'. I'm making bass traps this week.

I don't have any pics handy, but I've knocked out a number of rough projects - large area decks, monster swing sets (w/ fire pole, rock wall, two towers, bridge, etc, etc) and some basic tables for outdoor use.

I built our kitchen table, but nature gets most of the credit. I found a 4 foot tall camphor burled tree trunk at a flee market. Cut it to size, and put a plate of glass on top to make a table for all our meals. I promise, there is no table like it. Love it or hate it, it is unique. Holes and colors and swirls - the damn think looks possessed and liquid, and I could not get it out of my head once I saw it. (Those without my undeniable creative genius might see wood impersonating dog crap! But what do they know...) All I did was cut it and oil rub the top, so I don't claim it as wood work really.

Needed seating so I built what I think is called banquet seating - think a bench in a corner with seating along two sides. The top opens so we gain a good bit of storage area at the same time, and can seat 6 or 7 for food and drinks.

My father was an inventor of sorts, DIY'er extreme, and owner of a manufacturing company so I had access to metal and wood tools all my life. I love to create things, but the practice of law has stolen most of my time for such pleasures. That project to redo the look of my speakers was actually one of the more fun projects I have done in some time. Nice to break out of the comfort zone every now and then. (And for the record, that swing set was the most difficult project I have undertaken...probably ever.)

Yes, yes, I'll try to get some pics!

I see a lawsuit in someones future

You have no idea how appropriate your comment is. I'll cut to the chase, but suffice it say we had a Griswold Family meeting. Everyone wanted one of those big play sets. Then I got the price. "9,000 what; Ma'am, I hope you mean pesos." So, I said "I can build one even better!" I had it mapped out in my mind, but the details kill you, and I had taken for granted the amount of R&D the big boys had access to. (Not to mention skill!)

Well, flash forward post construction. Many pints of blood lost, many complaints of "the one in the picture had this, and why is this here, and SHUT UP AND START SWINGING!"

You see, my brilliant idea was that instead of paying for some place to have the kid's birthday party, I would have the party at home and offset the construction cost. That worked. But when 35 5 and 6 year olds showed up and attacked the play set, all I could think was "how do I get all these parents to sign a waiver before some one bleeds without causing a panic". I actually started making mental notes of which parents had paid enough attention that I could argue they willing accepted the risk obviously presented by the swing of death.

And in my defense, the idea of a bridge, with monkey bars on the underside along with the swings, was very sound in concept. Who could known a 5 year old is too dumb young to realize crossing the monkey bars while another dumb equally young 5 yr old is swinging, while yet another is kicking sand on them from the bridge overhead would, without a doubt, result in a collision. Shocked, I know. Who could have seen it coming.

But, it is a cool play-set! Damn it.

*No children were harmed in the making of this satirical retelling of fact, so save the calls to Social Services!*

Mark, the trick is to break it into very little pieces and transport them to the dumpster without a breathing apparatus. Wait; that might be wrong. Better check around.


*Obviously joking Mark, my DIY handbook says run from asbestos as fast as possible. *

Really, having the "Bed 'O Spikes" under the Monkey Bars might have been mildly reckless.

"Thirty Five kids at this Party? Really? I only remember 33 actually arriving here. I honestly have no recollection of the other two. Try on what glove?"

Thanks Mike! I didn't want to bother you with this yesterday, but I just might take you up on your offer! We've been here with this floor for almost 20 years, so there's no rush on my end. I have started to wonder though, whether I could tackle putting in a Pergo-type floor but of course I'd have to deal with removal of the old one first!

The "Slide of Fire" is more entertaining any-hooo!

Mark,

Depending on your sub floor, you could always screw/glue some 3/8 AC over it and then lay the laminate over the AC. This is a common practice. Transition strips between this area and other rooms would take up the differing floor heights.

If you decide to remove the old flooring, the difficult part for you wouldn’t be the removal, but the disposal. Removal is simple really. The hardest part is putting plastic up EVERYWHERE but the remediation area, and also taping the plastic. Then you have to dispose of the plastic as well as the material.

But, even if you did remove it yourself, from a regulatory perspective, it’s still there. Remediation is only “officially” recognized if it is removed by someone holding a fitness card. Oh, and if you ever sell the house, and you know it has asbestos flooring (or the appraiser), you may have no choice but to have it removed. It’s no different than if you have an underground fuel tank, you have to get soil samples tested and prove the tank isn’t / hasn’t leaked. If the samples show hydrocarbon levels, you get the joy of paying someone to remove the soil and dispose of it.

Yeah MARK! Don't laugh (or make me laugh) at my spike trap monkey bar set, or the slide of fire, or the fireman's pole that lack the clearance to get you down without a brush burn, when you have an old fuel tank under your house! Let's see you cross monkey bars over that!

(And yes, it was the slide from hell. I may have misjudged the angle while building, by 10-45 degrees, or so. Let's just say we had to re-engineer the slide after the party. I had forgot about that kid that basically got sky-kicked by the girl coming down at 98 mph. Fun day for all. All 33, or however many left that day.)

I'm no expert but when they removed asbestos from the basement of the building I work in, it was like a scene from a sci-fi movie. The hallway leading to the work area had a sealed tent where the workers entered, stripped down and entered a second tent which housed showers for the way out and that led into another tent where they put on their special suits. All of the outbound air went via giant tubes to a huge filtering unit that exhausted outside.

Scary stuff.

We haven't worried TOO much about our kitchen floor, as we were told, in that particular application, it wasn't too big of a deal to live with or remove.

We have asbestos on some of the pipes in the basement, though, and in some areas it's kind of "broken open". It's hard not to think about it as I hope to spend more time down there....

So Murph, if I hire you to come down here and set up a high-level network, you DON'T want a cot in the basement?

Just checkin'.....

The expert who gave us a learning session at our Health and Safety committee meeting before the cleanup told us that for the most part, asbestos is only dangerous when disturbed as it's rate of just 'breaking down' and going airborne is extremely slow. Normally when undisturbed, asbestos in a a wall or something is often safer just left there than removed.

That being said, the asbestos insulation on the pipes in the basement was much like your situation. It was exposed, breaking open and chunks could flop around. It's very brittle so this can create airborne particles. In fact, I can't offer an opinion on your basement but I'd feel more comfortable having an expert look at it, if you haven't already.

So no, I'd love to visit New Hampshire again but I'll be putting up a tent in your backyard.

Actually, we got estimates of around $2500 for removal right after we bought the house. I'm guessing that's about $7500 now.

If we had kids, or I was spending lots of time down there over the years, it would have been removed immediately.

As it now stands, it's just the occasional cumputer Geek down there for a night or two, and I have to believe all that deep coughing they do the week after is cleansing their system of anything bad.

Mark, be careful. I don't want to alarm you. There is a ton of asbestos litigation around here and I know several attorneys that do that kind of work, on both sides of the table. The particles can't be coughed up, that's the problem. The little glass like crystals cannot be removed from the complex web of the lungs, and result in mesothelioma (lung cancer). It is rampant around here as asbestos was a common product in the oil and gas manufacturing sector in the 50s - 80s. It's fine unbroken, but if your dealing with busted up stuff, seek help my friend. At least wrap it up so the particles can't escape if you are not going to remove it.
Sincerely, Chicken Little

Mark one thing to think about is if your furnace is in the basement it may be drawing fibres into your ductwork and throughout your house. Since I don't know your setup it's had to tell. Had you had your home tested for asbestos fibres?
Mel N.

Mark is going to wish he never raised this issue.

Charles, you know I was kidding about anyone else being down there, right? I wasn't sure, as you had no smilies in your post!??!

You're right that it needs attention, though. I DO know that... but we also know that no one else gets exposed but us, and we spend very, very little time down there. The only reason I'm giving it more thought, is that I'd like to plan on spending more time down there with my new-found woodworking re-interest.

Actually, we have a gas-fired steam boiler, so there's no air moving around. Seriously... thanks for the concern though!

Anybody else disappointed by Mark's complete lack of freaking out here?

He's not ::running away doing anything......::

We should call his wife and let her know Mark is keeping a dark secret in the basement.



Edit:...and there is asbestos down there.

Really, I'm just afraid that if some asbestos guy is poking around there, he might question the fresh earth in the corner....

Just tell him you had a leak in the foundation, that usually works, ummm...I saw that in a movie.

Anyone here doing dovetails?

I might pick up either a Keller setup or a PorterCable 4212 or a Rockler. I've wanted to try dovetails for awhile, but at the moment have many projects needing drawers.

Any input appreciated from you "dovers"....

I could be wrong, Mark, but I always thought that Porter Cable was more-a-less the standard for dovetail jigs. I haven't used one, but watched a demo of one at the Woodworking Show in T.O. As far as I know, when you make dovetails, you are making both adjoining pieces at the same time...one piece sits vertically in the jig and one horizontally with a stagger to it(half the pitch of one dovetail to the next). Both are cut at the same time, as would be done in the PC jig...I think that Keller jig you would make each piece separately by the looks of it, something to consider. As I said, haven't used one before, just an observation but I don't think you'd go wrong with the PC.

I use the Porter Cable 24” Omni Jig. I’ve had it for about six years, so it’s not their newest system. I’ve been interested in buying the new system. It looks pretty simple to set up and use. Mine is an exercise in re-learning every single time I use it. The new one looks much more user friendly. When I was looking for jigs, I almost bought the Leigh, and wish I would have got it instead. The Leigh makes adjustable dovetails and is fairly straight forward to set up and use. The P/C makes standard width pins as well as variable spaced pins if you buy the additional template, but it’s not quite as adjustable as the Leigh. I have the template (as well as the sliding dovetail template) and have used it a couple times. It does OK.

Out of all of them, I’d still stick with the new P/C omni or Leigh. Don’t screw around with those little cheap jigs though. They’re a waste of money.

http://www.leighjigs.com/home.php
http://www.deltaportercable.com/jigs/omni/

Mark, I have the PC 4212 (I think). They change the digits per jig, but as for the unit, it does work very well. I would spring for the extra jig package (which I don't have) as the mini-jig would be nice for small work and price to buy separate is more expensive. But it is easy to use, and I am no dovetail king. Frankly, I successfully built one box on it and have not used it since. Not its fault, just have not need a dovetail. It is a very solid unit, not flex or slide. I had an old hard plastic design before can could never get a decent result from it. No experience with the others - but the Leighs with the movable fingers do look like a great idea, if the execution is effective.

That reminds me of a store I could hang out in for hours. These guys design and manufacture their own tools as well as carrying a great sellection of quality tools from other manufacturers.

Fred, I haven't been to Lee Valley for years, indeed it is a store that one can get lost in...they have products in there for woodworkers, I've not seen anywhere else.

I buy a lot from Lee Valley. They have the best darn pencils made, plus a gazzilion other cool things. Warning: do not shop on line while drinking. Lee Valley and Amazon especially.

For you craftsmen:

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers.
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age.
SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters.
BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available.
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for thawing pipes while also burning surrounding materials.
TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity.
SKILL SAW: A powerful electrical powered device designed to rapid cut wood into pieces that are too short. The name has nothing to do with those that own them.
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads.
STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your palms.
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent to the object we are trying to hit.
UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons; works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts, clothes and fingers.
DANG-IT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling 'DANG-IT' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.

Can't take credit for this; here's the source.

That's a good one, there.

That was REALLY enjoyable!

If anyone wants to see the Playset'O'Death or the possessed tree-stump table I mentioned above, I added a couple pics to my album (at p. 3).
I got wood.

The stump table is very cool!

Charles, how did you attach the glass? I'm, stumped

Very nice.

friction?

The Deaf Monk is involved I'm sure...some kind of atomic forcefield, I think.

The table is awesome.

Thanks, I love the table, up close it is just a wild piece of nature. To get the glass in I just left the stump and the glass outside. Hurricane Katrina did the rest - a perfect slice! At least that is what I tell the kids.

Actually, it was a good bit of work getting it cut with a chainsaw and then hand planing it to near level and smooth as glass, with hand rubbed linseed oil. Then attached with a large lag bolt through the center of the glass. I had hoped to avoid the bolt, as the inside under the glass came out really beautiful. But kids kept almost flipping the glass off so I had to bolt it down and cover with the cut-off. Makes a nice optical curiosity. Then I build the banquet seating around the corner, and wallah! Seating for 6 or 7 in a nook to small for a 4-person table and chairs. Saved a good bit of $$ and got something unique that I really like - the Holy Grail of DIY, for me anyway.

Funny thing is, we used it so much that I got the green light to toss the dining room table and use that room as the HT. All the work paid off!

Really, really cool!

Anyone else think the price of power tools is starting to creep up slowly. Don't know if it's the exchange rates or not, but I'm not seeing as many deals out there as 2-3 months ago(Amazon incl). Also, the $$ of TVs seems to be going up as well...in some cases 20+ % from what I saw yesterday.

The economy is picking up, well stabilizing a bit, old stock not bought as Christmas is gone, new products arriving, it had to happen.

They've realized that I'm done with purchases, so they can't make it up in volume anymore!

Of course, I'm still likely to get a dovetail jig and another router this weekend.

After that though, I'm quitting cold turkey. Yessiree! I'm done!

Hey... anyone up for a "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" photo-frenzy of our workshops?

No peaking behind the curtain...

If by "workshop" you mean a garage and minibarn full of tools that are endlessly moved around as needed (or as they get in the way of something else,) then no, I don't think anyone really wants to see that.

I will send a pic of my friends workshop. He is an incredibly gifted wood worker (hobbyist) and just built a stand-alone garage. Turns out, the front door was too small for the wife's car (strange how that happened) so he turn it into the best wood shop I have seen outside a professional shop. 12x6 cherry workbench, hardwood floors, vaulted ceilings, air and 110/240 at every location, and lots of room to move around from workstation to workstation.

Mine, half a garage with a "layered" approach to organization.

I too, am utilizing the layered approach, both in the garage where most of my metalworking tools are "neatly" piled around the perimeter on benches, and in my basement where the bulk of my woodworking tools(so far) are precisely placed in various places such as under the stairways, beside the furnace ect...

When I started my home reno's, my backyard, driveway, kitchen, family room ect became my workshop depending on the job I was working on. Eventually I'd really like to build a dedicated woodshop...and metalshop...and Home Theatre...and....

I think Joyce and I are going to refinance what's left on our mortgage to take advantage of the lower rates. We've met with someone already and it looks like we can have the same monthly payment, but pay the loan off earlier and get a big bag of money besides. We'll use that towards renovations in the kitchen, bath, plumbing, electrical and asbestos removal (Murph will be so proud of me!)

We've got an 8x10 dirt-floored, walled-off root cellar in a corner of our basement that we've never made use of. As things are getting a bit tighter down there in the workshop, I think I'm going to clean it up, put in a cement floor and a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Then I can put the dust collector and compressor in there making the shop quieter and giving me more elbow room.

I have a Jet 1.5HP dust collector... the package with the 1-micron filter and remote control:



I've loved the remote; I just throw it in a pocket and turn the DC on from across the room when ready to work at each machine. I'm realizing it might be a problem for this application, though, as the Remote /Timer control unit has no "bypass". So, if I put the unit in a separate room where the remote and sensor can't see each other, I can't turn it on/off. Even a switch outside the room won't do any good, as I'll supply power to the unit, but not "trigger it on".

So, though I've never felt the need to do it in my HT, I might actually be looking for an infrared repeater for my workshop!!??!!

Has anyone here ever converted a dust collector to RF so they could use an MX-850 or a Harmony Remote in their shop??

It's not super quality compared to more expensive solutions but for 50 bucks, you'd get an automated solution for your dust collector , two remotes (one credid card sized for your pocket) and a lamp module to turn on the operating room style lights when you need to sticth a finger back on after a table saw accident.

X10 Starter Kit.

Later you could add more modules for turning on your shop stereo, the shop coffee maker and annoy your wife by playing with the lights in her parts of the house.

Bear with me...I'm feeling less-than-bright today as if someone dimmed me remotely with an X10!

I don't see how this unit will work, as simply switching power to the DC will NOT turn it on. Plugging the DC in does not power it up, as there's no "hard" power button to leave in the "on" position. The X10 site isn't giving me info on how it works, just why it's so cool to have it.

I'm thinking I really need something more of an infrared repeater that I can hang (or fasten) in front of the DCs sensor, and be wired to a receiver outside of the room where my existing remote can point.

Am I making sense or do I need a nap? Zzzzzzzzzzz.........

I just went to Jettools.com to see if there was some tech support. While there, I decided to check on my exact unit and it seems like all the models with remote control now use RF!!

I guess I'm not the only one to run into some issues!

You need a nap, a nap and a cheap IR repeater. It ain't rocket science, as they say around here. If the remote is IR, the put a receiver in your big room, and the transmitting in line of sight of the dust collector, and open a beer. I have used a Recon (I think?) and a Terk Leapfrog. The Leapfrog cost about $50 but works much better than the $20 Recon. But, if you only need on/off, I would try the cheap one from somewhere with a good return policy. My problem was it was not overly accurate - channel 753 was 73, then 53, then 3, then I threw the remote, yatta, yatta, yatta.

In fact, I still have them and don't use them. I'm keeping the Frog for use to control the outdoor speakers (since my RF connection is broken to zone 2 now that I have a HT!). But if I can find the various plugs and eyes, I'll send you the old one. If it works, great, if not, trash it. PM me if you are interested. For the price you might prefer not to wait for met to find it! That layered thing can be tricky.

Also, look at Smarthouse (or smarthome?) .com. They have tons of options for IR repeating if you want to go upscale with it - nice wall plates, etc.

Thanks Charles! I very much appreciate the offer, but let me research it a bit more. I just read a post where a guy "removed" the remote section off the unit and just wired an extension and plug onto the now-exposed wires.

If I go that route, I can just have the electrician install a remote-operated switch on the circuit before the outlet. I think.

Again, thanks to both of you.... let me research it a bit more.

Maybe I should just install a window to the "room". Naaah, I wanted to build clamp racks over that wall!

Mark, why not get one of those portable clamp racks with wheels? that way you can always put it in your way.

Exactly why not!

Smarthome has some ethernet controlled IR transmitters. I have one living out in my desk that I used in our old office to remote control an AC unit in the server closet.

Mark,

Have you looked at the "Long Ranger" (Sounds like a porn movie) from Penn State Industries. It's an RF remote that I use on my DC. They have models for 110V or 220V. It works great. No need to point it to the DC to turn on/off. I only wish my DC was as big as yours

Gene

Mark has a big DC?

Why, Yes.

Yes I do.

Gene- I'll check it out right now!

Men with big DCs should have this book.

Have it? I ghost wrote it!

You still owe me $$ for being the subject matter.

But my photographer's fees outweighed (ahem) your modeling fees....

You charge a lot, don't you Mark?

Enough that I need to expand my workshop feetage.

Sorry, I did not realize that the unit could not be left in an [on] state then just activated by applying power when I suggested an X-10 solution.

And yes, it is one of the most "insulting to our intelligence" web pages ever made, but sometimes it is a really cheap solution to a remote on/off issue, but not in this case. Although, if you bypass the IR receiver as per the post you read, it should work. At least until you lose the little keychain sized remote.

Actually, why don't you get the electrician to wire it up so that it automatically turns on anytime a circuit dedicated to a powertool is turned on. There could even be a timer that leaves it on for x seconds after you turn the powertool off.

YES, this would be the solution you need to avoid all that undue exercise that walking all that distance to flip a switch.

A guy in a woodworking forum has had luck with a "lawn and Garden" remote that will handle the load, but it's got the same problem in that it switches power on to my DC, but then the "soft" buttons or remote is still needed.

On another topic Murph, did you ever buy that router? I'm still going back and forth and back and forth.

I have a Triton 2 1/4HP mounted in a Rockler table, and would like to get a second router for handheld and dovetail jig use.

I have been playing around with this purchase for 6 months now, and keep changing my mind (the stupidity of THAT is pi**ing me off!)

I can't help but wonder:

Frequently I see sites (stores) that help narrow your choices down to some final items for consideration. Does anyone know of a site that does this with routers?

For instance, there are 244 models available (probably not far off, which is why the "finder" would be helpful):

The questions could be:
*Do you intend to mount this in a table? (Now down to 118 choices)
*Do you need a 1/2" or 1/4" collet? (Now down to 56 choices)
*Do you want variable speed? (Now down to 22 choices)
*Do you like D-Handle style? (Now down to 4 choices)

Yadda, yadda, yadda..... eventually finding your way down to a single, few, or "best match" choices.

Anyone know of anything like that for routers? Coincidentally, I know several other people that are in the same exact situation, and find the number of choices dizzying.

I'll probably get a PC 690LRVS. If I don't , I'm gonna build that freakin' website! Well, pay someone to build it for me at least!

Yeah, honestly, if I remove it's "remote" capability and just wire a heavy 3-wire plug on it, all my options open up. That's probably what would need to happen. Then there are RF controlled "outlet" switches that would work.

The "auto on with tool on" thing won't work because I'll have tools on three different circuits when the electrician is done.

Your X10 solution still might be the best... with a little DC surgery on my part!

Of course, I think I posted above that JET now uses RF-remotes with their units. For all I know, I can just buy that as a part that will replace my infrared part perfectly?? (Probably $150!!)

Yes I did. I was playing with it last night as a matter of fact. I think I mentioned in my PM that my budget got shrunk so I had to scale back my list of higher end models. I ended up with this one.

Mastercraft Maximum Router

I normally shy away from Mastercraft tools but their Maximum lines are usually exceptionally good. It had reviews on several independent woodworking sights comparing it to much more expensive models like Porter Cable and Dewalt (Dewalt'scontractor grade line, not their new consumer line junk.)

Might not be the right choice for a daily user like yourself but I'm confident it will do my half dozen projects a year quiet nicely. Also with the 80 dollars off sale and my 79 dollars in Canadian Tire rebate coupons I've been hording for years, the price was too good to be true.

Daily user? HA! My router gets use once every few weeks... I don't get down there nearly as often as I'd like.

Sorry, I DO remember you telling me that you got that router. I guess I was just hoping you'd be the first patron of the website!

Patron or developer?

Hey, I just noticed that my new router fits all of your criteria, including both choices in all the 'either or' questions. Well, except the D-handle but I fall in the not liking those category. I'm even happier now.

Now if my wife would just settle on a design for the plant stands she demands be my first project, I could actually get to work.

Second project will be a nice storage box for my rather large chess pieces made from sand. I wonder if it should be waterproof in case the tide comes in....

Hey, if you can be the developer, great! It ought to be a success for the number of people I know who are inumbdated with router choices! I keep going through a cycle of thinking THIS might be the one, but then it's not VS, or it's heavy, or something in the reviews throws a caution flag. It's driving me up the wall.

So, we start with the "narrowing down" feature. Then we start adding reviews. The site catches on so well that we have sponsers begging us for ad space and we bid it out month to month. Only 5 sponsers allowed at a time, but it's a minimum of $5K per month. They'll do it because WE'LL have the power! Mwaaaah-Haaaa-Haaa!

I _think_ I'm looking for a 1 3/4HP (light weight), 1/2" collet, variable speed router, possibly with a D-Handle. The D-Handle comes in because some of the choices that I otherwise like are getting mentions in reviews of "awkward to turn off/on", "dangerous switch position"... stuff like that. So I was thinking a D-Handle because of the trigger control.

That, and I saw Norm using one!

Sorry, my web development days are 10 years behind me and it was just a few side projects for internal office stuff. Things have changed so much I wouldn't know where to begin. With your research into templates and such, you now have more expertise in modern web design than I do.

HA! Your second wrong assumption this morning.

My research into templates most cenetered around a few simple criteria: Does it maintain aspect ratio for photos, is there provision for video clips, and is it bright and shiny?

Audiophile Dog can not hear you complain!

Man, I love that dog.

That's not Audiophile Dog. That's Assassin Dog listening in on his target's activity.

Audiophile dog would not be using headphones that crappy.

Shhhh, he just threw them on as a ruse to avoid web development work.

Mark, Milwaukee makes a nice D-handle for a reasonable price...no, I don't own one, but when you get yours tell me if it's any good.

Yeah, I was looking at this one as one of the top contenders. It might get trumped though, as I received a sale notice from Rockler with the P-C for $99!!! Hell, I might buy two!

I've joined a NH woodworkers group and have a meeting tomorrow morning. On the way back, I'm hoping to pick up a dovetail jig on sale at Woodcraft and then go to Rockler for the router!

Mark, do you have a link for the PC, I couldn't find it on Rockler. Sounds like an excellent deal.

Sale Flyer

I like my Bosch. It was hard to decide on, as you say, but I can't say a bad thing about it really. But I don't use a router enough to really endorse it. Good quality, sturdy, well thought out. Beyond that, it did not make me the craftsman I'm certain I truly am, so take some points off for that.

Thanks, I see there is a mail-in rebate though, probably only available to US customers I'll email Rockler or PC to find out.

I never have gotten used to D handle routers. I have a Bosch, but don't use it, ever. I always grab my little PC. http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-693LR...38896431&sr=1-6

My day was full of win wood. Some people finish their basements. Today, I (mostly) finished the storage area under the stairs. It will likely be a useful (contained) play area for the kids. Stick-on vinyl floor tiles, a few 2x4s, some 1/2" plywood, plenty of nails, and some LED rope light has transformed the dark cave into an inviting space. I still need to put up 1/4-round trim to finish it off, but it's good enough for the kids to use in the meantime.

I have some pictures on the camera that I can post...

Sounds like a nice little project.

This is the Axiom forum. You're not really waiting to be asked, are you?

The D-Handle of your router is exactly what I got yesterday: Porter Cable 691. I like the D-Handle for the trigger control, so I can start it with two hands on it instead of one hand looking for a switch up top. Because it's the same 690 motor as your kit, it's pretty light (which is what I wanted, as I have the Triton in the router table).
My first router was a Skil plunge model that had a sealed rocker switch right on the handle. After using that, I could never figure out why manufacturers put the switch up top, instead of someplace you could actually reach while holding on to it the way it was designed to be held. I mean it's not THAT big a deal and tomayto - tomahto and all that!

I was on my way from a woodworker's meeting to a Woodcraft to get the dovetail jig on sale...and then was going to go to a Rockler to get the PC690 on sale. I asked at the Woodcraft store if they price-match, but they didn't have a 690 in stock anyway. But then she said she'd take $50 off the D-Handle version to get the price pretty close. As I said, I liked the idea of the D-Handle, and it saved me a 1-hour ride each way to Rockler, so....

At the meeting, the guy was demoing dovetails for drawers and drawer slides... perfect timing for me! GREAT organization for $30/year. I get discounts all over the place and they even have a full color magazine that they publish 4X a year. The Guild of New Hampshire Woodworkers has over 500 members... evidently one of the largest woodworker's groups out there! I'm psyched!

Congrats on the PC, Mark. I too, can't understand why manufacturers don't put the switches in a more convenient/safer location on their routers, something I like about the D-handles.

Silly, silly me. I'm on the Axiom forums, yet didn't post a pic. I swear, if my head weren't attached.....

Since these PC Dovetail Jigs don't have dust collector options, I think I'll build a little "clampable" platform for it that will hold the red dust collector thingamabob.

I got the dovetail jig with the extra template for miniature through and half-blind dovetails and miniature box joints 'cuz I might try some small-box projects for kicks...

Good to see your buying into my family name Mark.

I thought your family name was "Axiom", Randy?

Randy Cable? I had no idea...

Sounds like what you get when electrons excite the wire in Monster Cables...

Good idea with the small jig template, really expands the projects you can use dovetails on.

Enjoy the sawdust.

Mark's gonna dovetail his front door to the frame, no need for security devices.

I had been keeping my eye on the pricing for this DeWalt stand to use for my Ridgid Planer:


When I first saw it on Amazon, it was something like $120 for eight weeks while I kept prioritizing other things. Then it jumped to ~$180 where it has been for months... so I planned on building one. It's come down a bit lately...

Yesterday, I saw and bought this at Sam's Club for $165 instead:



Mee Likey!

For what I would have to pay for the wood, castors and draw slides, it would have cost me the same in the end. I might even buy two more, putting them back to back with a homebuilt "bridge" top to make an assembly bench.

I've been keeping my eye out for tool stands/carts, etc. for awhile, and this is the best deal I've come across by far. The reviews on the Sam's Club site are excellent; I plan on assembling this today and will see for myself. I'll post back if anyone is interested. It sometimes seems like there's always a need in workshops for tool stands / rolling carts so I thought someone here might be interested...

I'm spending the day re-organizing my workshop...it's so out of control right now I can't even find a horizontal surface to work on anything!

Mee likey too!

Speaking of Amazon, I see some of their prices changing on a daily basis, sometimes as much as 25-40% over night, then back and forth(?).
I had my eye on the Bostitch 15 gauge nailer...a while back I could have picked one up for around $100 US, these days it's North of $150

I have about 100 items in my Amazon basket.... seriously. I had always made good use of my wishlist as a reminder of a CD that someone recommended or a tool that was "best reviewed" that I know I'll be looking for someday. But I've emptied my wishlist into the "save for later" part of my shopping basket.

When doing this, everytime you go into your basket it shows you what prices have risen or been lowered on the items. It gives me the opportunity to "jump" if there's a good price decrease. I check daily!

Oh great, just what I need - another clever internet shopping tool.

I meant the Amazon thing, Mark, not you.

I do this, too, but not for anything practical.

But yeah, I like how it's a good way to both save and spend money simultaneously.

That cart is really, really nice. It went together very easily...lots of screws but it's designed with threaded inserts so there aren't nuts to deal with {INSERT JOKE HERE}.

Every piece fit together accurately and obviously. Every part had a sticker with a clear, simple part #, which way is up and which way is the front. Instructions and illustrations were in clear English. It was absolutely the best-designed assembly I've ever dealt with.

I'm not joking here: I'm going to make it a point to write the manufacturer to give them a pat on the back for doing it SO right and I'm going to write a review on Samsclub.com (I've never bothered writing a review though I live on Amazon).

Further, I'm going to buy four more of these and use them as a base for a new workbench/assembly table.

No kidding, I can't believe how good these are, and at the price, they're a steal!

I'll have to tell my dad about it.

Shouldn't you be building your own tables???
[[insert silly, grinning emote of choice here:]

Believe me, I'm aware of how much more charm it would have if I built the cabinets myself with Maple-front drawers and dovetail joints, etc...

But the reality is, I have a "to-do" and "to-build" list that's 50 items long. I'm not looking for projects to build even now, and when the whole refinanced mortgage "rebuild the kitchen, rebuild the bathroom, rebuild the basement, redo the whole house plumbing, redo electric work, redo the landscaping, redo the kitchen floor, redo yadda, redo yadda" happens, I'm going to be inundated to keep up with contractors.

So yes, I would love the charm of "do it myself", but I'm too much of a realist. I could get four of these cabinets assembled in 5 hours and be done with it....except for building a thick Maple top!

And, by the way, aren't you supposed to be posting photos of some plant stands?

True, but the last two weekends were filled with Jeep work and next weekend looks like it will be filled with lawn and yard work. Of course, now that my big workbench is no longer a big pile of parts, I could probably do a little here and there on some evenings.

One of 3 wood working projects I've every done.



I had some hardwood flooring pieces with flaws that I put to use after using a fan box as a center stand for a year or so.

It's actually solid and well balanced. It doesn't compliment the HG Cherry much but I'm not sure if I want to stain or paint it....as it doesn't distract either and the planks are pre-finished already.

I've also been thinking of trimming the top piece so the VP150 is exactly the same length or slightly longer...

Vary nice!!

Yeah, nice job!

I'd miss the cooling center fan, though, and I bet it vortexed the center channel information straight out to the listener!

That's why he has a square room! Mark has a fear or vortexes.

Actually, I have a vortex-shaped room because I'm afraid of squares.

You were close though!

Any fans here of pocket hole joinery?

Yesterday and today, I've been working on a project that my wife has wanted done for 17 years...since we bought the house. Our washer and dryer are in the basement, but the dryer was never vented outside. I had it going into a bucket with holes around the top and a few inches of water on the bottom. The problem with venting it outside is that I didn't want to lose the window at that spot.

So, I took out the current window and built a "box" to hold the vent hose that corresponded to the levels and contours of the deep window (The foundation is brick). The box takes up the left third of the window opening, and I built a new window for the right two-thirds of the opening. I had never built a window before.



I planed some wood down to about 1/4" and made T-shaped splines that fit in the groove for the glass, but decided the frame would be stronger with pocket hole screws. I had been doing some pocket-hole stuff for a few months now, but this time I plugged the holes. I have to say, this frame is really, really strong and with the plugs in the pocket holes, they're hardly visible. (The window is going to be painted white anyway).



I'm finding that I want to use pocket holes more and more because of their strength and simplicity, but seeing how well they plug, I might even start using them in visible areas with contrasting plugs ( Walnut plugs in Maple, for instance ).

It feels awesome to get a project done that's been on my list for 17 years!!!

So, any other pocket hole fans?

The only real project I've ever done used pocket hole joinery for most of the carcass. Since it's all internal, however, I didn't use plugs. It's a pretty awesome technique, and I love that the set I used had those nifty square head screws.

I have not used that method. Have not paid off the saw-dust gods with my biscuit joiner yet, so I'll have to put it at the back end of the list of tools to buy. Looks great. Nice work.

Well, first I was simply going to make fun of this statement...
...."but this time I plugged the holes"....

But then I got curious to know if you made yourself a jig for that or used a bought one. If you made it yourself, lets see it!

I'll stick with my serious question but I'm filing your quote away for future reference.

Naaaaah, didn't make it myself. I bought a Kreg Jig. I like it a lot and am using it more and more!

I'm looking at getting a 2 1/4 hp router kit with both bases(fixed and plunge), you guys have any suggestions? I was leaning towards either the Milwaukee 2 1/4 fixed/plunge kit(5616-24) or the Bosch 1617 EVSPK "BP"(BP=Bonus Pack; ie edge guide). My only concern about the Bosch is that there are some negative comments about the switch malfunctioning, I also looked at the Triton 2 1/4 plunge kit but have read that there are some quality control issues with it, although it has many excellent and innovative features on it.

Hey Adrian:
I liked both the Bosch and Milwaukee based on what I saw in stores and read in reviews. I've never used either, so I don't have firsthand experience.

I have the Triton 2 1/4hp mounted in my router table and like it. It's a very good value if they still make it available in the kit with a bunch of accessories for a little over $200 US. There are some things that take a little getting used to, such as the power switch "cover plate", but as you said, there's some innovative features. I've never used it handheld...only in the table. I like it enough that I told myself I'd get the 3 1/4hp version for the table if I ever wanted something bigger in there.

BTW, I'm loving that PC D-handle 1 3/4hp router. To be able to start it / stop it with a trigger while both hands are on it is great. I also like the D-handle itself as opposed to holding a couple of knobs.

D-handle revolution!!!!

I have the Bosch and love it. The power switch is not well thought out but versitle machine overall and on sale is a good deal.

Mark, do you have any issues with the build quality of the Triton? For the record, I only saw a couple of user reviews that complained about it and to be fair, there were some quality issues on the Milwaukee's, Dewalt's and Bosch as well. I'm somewhat leary about Bosch electrics, I've heard a disproportionate number of complaints about their motors crapping out in some of their tools(esp drills). I can get the Triton for under $200 CN which is pretty good considering the features and extras they supply with the kit, though it is also a dedicated plunger. Speaking of D-handles, Dewalt has a kit for the 2 1/4hp DW618 that gives you all 3 bases...plunge, fixed and D-handle which might be worth looking at. I too, am interested in the D-handle because of the switch location and I believe the unit would be easier to control in many situations.

Mark, your PC is a 1 3/4hp is it not? how do you find the power vs your 2 1/4 triton. I've noticed that some 2 1/4hp routers by companies such as Hitachi are only 11 amps where some of the others are 12-13 amps. Also, Milwaukee's 1 3/4 is rated at 11 amps, same as the Hitachi 2 1/4!!

Amazon $$ on the Milwaukee (1 3/4hp)dropped today....hmmmmm

Hi Charles, did you get the plunge/fixed kit on your Bosch?

Yep. Very quiet. Don't use as much as I would like, but very happy with quality of motor and number of third party acc avail.

The Bosch 1617EVSPK with both bases and bonus pack is $199 on Amazon at the moment.

I specifically wanted the 1 3/4HP PC for handheld use, while the Triton is specifically for table use. Because of that, I've never really done a direct comparison between the two. The bigger bits have been used in the table / Triton only. While the smaller / simpler bits are used in both, the smaller bits don't do much to test the routers' capabilities either for me to compare.

I haven't had any issues at all with the Triton, but in all fairness, when it only sits in the table and only gets turned on once every few weeks, I haven't exactly pushed its' limits either.

When I was shopping for the Triton, though, I wasn't seeing anything particularly negative about the router... (though Amazon reviews show that every router has some detractors).

Many of the "reviews" on Amazon should be taken with a grain of salt no doubt.

I was seriously wanting the Milwaukee 5616-24 except one of the reviewers questioned the repeatability of the plunger, specifically that the motor wasn't clamped too well and was moving under load when plunging. I'm wondering if the cutter was actually pulling out of the collet on him: saw this problem when I used to work in the machine shop alot, if you weren't using a side lock on the tool holders(ie using a collet instead). The Bosch is a good deal and has a lot of extras with it, but why are they only offering a 1 yr warranty? what's wid dat? everyone else is 3-5 yrs.

So which on did you get? And don't you DARE say "none yet"!

I'm getting the Bosch, with one minor catch...it's getting delivered to my Aunt in Washington, so it'll be a while before I actually receive it. Hopefully the 1 yr warranty won't be a problem, I still don't know why such a highly rated router would have such crappy coverage.

You went with the Bosch? Seriously? ::runs away snickering::








No, seriously, I think it's a good choice!

(Did I tell him about the motor failure on my Bosch after 12 hrs of use, or did I forget? Oh well, no matter at this point ...)

I could swear your avatar was using his middle finger there, Charles.

In his mind, it is.

I did contact Bosch and ask them about the switch failures that they had on the 1617and they said it was due to sawdust build-up in the switch because it wasn't sealed, and they changed to a sealed design in June of 2005. As long as mine wasn't sitting in a warehouse for 4 yrs, I'm sure I must be getting one with a new switch.

Nothing to add here.

I just wanted to see this thread title 'Got Wood' next to Jack's 'A Thing of Beauty' thread.

LOL....

Funny, this Vero Beach stranger is....

Mornin' Mark!

Nobody wanted to do anything today due to a tropical wave so this Vero resident is off today.

Is Mornin' Mark like mornin' wood?

In the sense that I'm a d**k, yes.

That probably mean you have adequate steel bracing?

No, it's all about squirting glue.







I think we'd better get back to talking about woodworking now!!!

Yes. A subject where you're very hands on...

They're coming out of the woodwork now.

What was the second thing you said?

Now you've misspelled the second word of your post!

I REALLY need to walk away from this!

My problem is that I (finally!) watched The 40 Year Old Virgin last night, so my head (!) is in (!) that kind of humor!

It's difficult to walk with hardwood.

Thought I'd pass this one along, Princess Auto has these Dewalt Framing Nailers on sale right now, web only, for $128.88 CN(about $117 US)!! The sale just began today AFAIK...don't know if it's a promo from Dewalt or not, but it's a while supplies last thing. I just ordered two.

Might be ideal for you guys building a dedicated HT!

KRAP! just got an email from Princess Auto, basically "due to high and unexpected demand....yadda...yadda...we had to cancel your order. How many nailers did they have, I ordered the day they went on sale. F%ckink Krap!

Well, I ordered three and I was told I got the last ones.

(one for each nailer).

If anyone knows of some good deals (ie clearance)on any of the brand name router bits like Freud, Porter Cable ect, please post or let me know if you see anything decent.

If I see them first, I'm going to buy three of each till their gone.

May you be stricken with Bukolitis in the groinal region.

what about my gone? Nobody ever thinks about my gone. *pout*

Well, I have not done much wood work lately, so I'll submit this embarrassingly simply bit of wood work I did this week just to feel like part of the group. The long version - I built two rectangles from an old bed frame, filled it with old law books and put a $40 piece of scrap black granite on top and named it "table". I'm not happy with it, and I expect I'll go back to the floor setup I had before, but the lack of contributions got to me, so here it be:

That's kewell, Charles. Where on earth do find a 'scrap piece of granite', the books aren't hiding an epitaph by any chance are they?

Big sign in front of the granite store said remnant sale, so I stopped by. I paid $40 for that large (heavy!) slab of beautiful polished black granite (with rough edges that I kinda like, kinda don't). I really just wanted some 18x18 pieces to make floor stands for the components, but who can pass up a $40 granite table (with some light wood work added).

I had to restrain myself as they had several some damn fine "scraps" that were actually fully finished (bull nose at all edges) 36x96 table tops for $400. All kinds of deals if you can manage the stuff. Really heavy and hard to handle - even this "little" piece. Plus the diamond blades needed to cut the stuff gets expensive to just play with.

Check locally, my might be shocked what you find and use without modification.

Yes, I bought a Steel City Mortiser last weekend as there was a pretty good sale at a local Woodcraft and I got a further discount from my Woodworker's association. When I get a few small projects done in the shop, I'm going to attempt my first real piece of furniture, and that was the perfect excuse to buy a new tool! I also picked up a heap of Maple and Curly Maple for the little table with drawer I'll make for the living room. Maybe I'll document some points in that project once I get into it... It's cool to just be able to buy cheaper rough wood and joint and plane it myself.

Mark's a Mortisian.

I forgot to mention that I bought the last one...just in case you wanted one Adrian!

Sort of a pre-emptive purchase....

Well, I talked to the guy and he said he only had "1" defective unit left, so I passed.

LOL... Touché!

I hear they leave cryptic symbols in wooden pyramids built into all their work.

That reminds me... if I'm going to build a piece of furniture, now I have to buy one of the little name-imprinting-burning thingies... Just to confuse people, I'll use my name but with Charles' personal logo....

I see the toy, now where is the furniture?????? Make some sawdust man!

I have a couple of small projects I have to knock out first.

One, in particular, which if not done first will have me getting nasty IMs here!

All these new tools are probably just raising everyone's expectations of your craftsmanship.

Crap.

You're probably right.

For myself, too. So I just sold everything but a hammer with a broken handle, a screwdriver that's messed up from opening paint cans, and a 6' tape measure from a dollar store.

NO MORE PRESSURE!

Well, you still have your teeth.

Owwww....Owwww...OWWWW!

Not now!

Now stop posting, so I CAN STOP!

A "morteether"?

Norm Abram Closes 'Yankee Workshop'

That's too bad. Oh well, I guess the networks will replace it with another awesome reality show.


OUCH!!.....STOP HITTING ME WITH THE BESSEY CLAMPS< MARK!! AAAAAAAAHHHHH!!

Can I have it?

Let him have it, Mark!!! heh, heh!!

That must be tough. If it helps, you can use my workbench :

Nice! If you want to use it in the winter, you can build a fire in it to keep warm.

Yeah, all it needs is a granite top and a shoulder vise and I'm set.

OK, that's one project out of the way (cannibalizing the sorry-looking structure on the right to make firewood racks). I guess the next project should really be a workbench.

My favorite wood so far is "pressure treated", but if you look carefully in the middle of the third rack of firewood you should be able to see the curly maple

Phhhttt! anyone can clearly see, that is a piece of birdseye maple. Nice try bridg!

Forrest table saw blades?

I’m told to generate a list for Santa every year, as no one can figure out what to get me. It’s time for a new table saw blade. I’ve always wondered just how well Forrest blades perform, but never bought one. When I need a blade, I need a blade and usually get whatever Freud blade I can find at one of the box stores. If I am gong to do a lot of ripping, I’ll swap out my 80 tooth blade and throw in a ripping blade but usually, I have the 80 toother in the saw. It looks as if Forrest has three different blades out now. They only had the original out last time I looked.

So does anyone have experience with Forrest blades?

I think I’m going to put a new Incra miter gauge on my list too. I have the original and I see they now have one that allows you to miter for and aft. That’s one thing that my Incra has always bothered me with – can only miter one direction. If anyone has the new Incra, let me know what you think about that as well please.

Can't comment on the Forrest Blades as I've only used 12" Freud(imo very good), 12"Craftsman(not bad), 10"Ridgid(very good) and 7 1/4 Dewalt(so-so) blades on my various saws. However, have a good look at the carbides on any saw blade...it should be thick for strength and for resharpening and should be of a good micro grain quality as well as being consistant all around the saw blade. By this, I mean that a lot of the cheaper blades have poorly brazed, thinner or inconsistant carbide thickness as well as an inconsistant grind as you compare tooth to tooth.

Forrest has been around for a long time so I'm sure they make a quality product and made in the US as I understand.

I use Forrest Woodworker II full-kerf blade right now; I had a Forrest WW II thin kerf blade previously. Both have been great in quality of cut and convenience of not having to swap blades back and forth.

I've never used a Freud Fusion before, but have heard good things about it as well. Personally, I like the way the Forrests can be returned to the manufacturer for resharpening.

I can respond to the Incra questions as well, but I'll have to get home first!

Cool, thanks. I'm also looking at the Incra fence system for my Rigid contractor saw. I just can't fit a cabinet saw in my garage, so I'm looking at getting a better fence for it and the Inra looks pretty slick....

While I'm at it, how about Tenoning jigs? I'm tired of doing them over my dado blade and am looking at the Delta and Jet models. I'd prefer to stick with a table saw jig verses router.

Mike, please let me(us)know how that fence works, I have the same saw as you

That is one nice looking fence.

Dangit..... Now I'm looking at table saws. Grizzley has some killer deals right now. Must resist.... must resist....

Update:

So as I indicated before, when I started looking at the Incra TS fence, I started looking at table saws too. I figured that if I was going to sacrifice floor space to accommodate the Incra, I might as well upgrade to a better saw. (nothing wrong with the Rigid, but it does have its limitations). Grizzly has a 25% off sale on a 3 HP cabinet saw and after they ship it to me, the cost was going to be around $1200. I typically do not buy used machines / tools, as I have no idea how well the owner treated them (and I am very anal when it comes to taking care of my tools), so I usually buy new. I figured I might as well see what’s on Craig’s list. Someone had a Delta Unisaw listed for a grand, very little use with a Rockwell Unifence. I took a drive and checked it out. It was bought new, never used at an auction by the seller. He used it one day, then put it up in his loft where it’s sat since 2002. It still had the motor shipping bracket installed and the plastic on the name plate. I couldn’t walk away from it…. So I was in the garage with my dial indicators setting up the table and figuring out how to build some fill tables when the UPS guy showed up with some peculiar looking boxes from Amazon for my girlfriend. One was damaged, so I did the only thing a caring boyfriend would do and made sure that her stuff wasn’t damaged. First thing I saw was Incra on the boxes……!! I let her know that if that was my Christmas present, and it was my fence, I wouldn’t mind if she gave it to me now, verses Christmas day. Long story a bit longer, I finished installing the Incra on my new, used Unisaw and built filler tables last weekend. I spent a couple hours playing with the fence and absolutely love it! The saw is a pleasure to use to, but the fence is incredible. If you’ve been seriously looking at one, don’t hesitate and buy it. Amazon has it on sale right now for $340 or thereabouts. The only negative I can think of now is it does take up a lot of room to the right of the saw. When the fence is to the right for wide rips, the T-fence sticks out into the air about 30”. If you can work with that, the only other ‘negative’ I can come up with is it is somewhat of a pain to store if you need to pull it off the saw. I’m not sure what I’m going to do about that yet. Probably make a hanger to hang it on a wall when not in use.

Now I’m pining over the Incra fence and lift for my router table…….

Lucky you, Christmas arriving early and all. I may jhave to add one to my list of 'things to buy' when I move into the new house.

A small project but I took forever to finally get building this prototype but it is finally done. It is a pine version of a plantstand that I want to make in hardwood now that I know it works. I didn't have a design to go by, just a picture in my head of a picture I once saw in a magazine so I built the first one out of cheaper pine rather than waste some nice hardwood.

The top has 4 section "sandbox" if you will. The idea is that you fill the squares under the glass with sand and add seashells, starfish or whatever.



One part I'm having trouble with is joining the dividers. I temporarily tacked these in but I suck at carving odd shapes where they join in the middle. Any suggestions for my HW version to improve the join there, other than 'take my time'?

^glue and wood filler

Here's my genius answer: Use a router on a solid piece of wood.

Start with a square of wood of the right dimensions and thickness.
Mark the dividers, choose a router bit with the desired profile, and then route around those divider lines.

Ta da! No joining necessary.

Filler, Ha! Actually, I already did that on the above but the picture was from before.

Peter, are you suggesting that I route the divider as one solid cross out of a large piece of wood? Hmmm, that would make it look awesome. It would take some very imaginative clamping near the end though so as not to accidentaly break it while routing. Great concept though, I might try it just for the challenge if nothing else.

Or, if cheaper is needed for hardwood, use 4 arms with V cut at ends to form center of the +. If not load bearing, it should hold with glue.

Then if you're feeling extra dextrous, chisel out the radiused corners...

Seems like Peter's idea might be a bit impractical--and expensive, for a piece of hardwood of the right dimensions.

I assume that you want the dividers to have that curve to their tops? Otherwise it would be quite simple... Just chisel out slots the width of the opposing piece in the bottom and top of the respective pieces. You might even be able to do that with the curved dividers.

yes, they need some kind of curve on the tops or they look too 'stickish' in there.

Yes, a large block of hardwood would be expensive, unless I had a use for the resulting four smaller squares. I find I always find a use for my scraps eventually.

V cuts could work.

I admit suckage at hand carving or chiseling.

You guys are just full of great ideas, as always.

Edit:
Err Wait. Peter, I think I now understand that you meant that the solid piece would actually be the entire top piece of wood. Thus not using 4 pieces for the outer frame.

That was actually my first design choice for the hardwood version but I always run into trouble routing inside edges in big pieces of joined pine so I did it this way for the beta. I think I still envisioned having to add dividers after routing out the big center square but I certainly could do it in 4 smaller sections.

It would mean rounded outer corners where the glass sits but i gues that could be corrected afterwards. Except I'm back to my suckage at hand chiseling again.

Charles Idea is a good one, IMO. 4 pieces cut with a 'V' at one end to join in the centre. Another alternative might be to make a cross out of square stock with a dado cut into each piece where they join, then after they are secured as one piece, router the inside edges to make it purdy. If you don't mind spending the coin, get a wainscotting bit to make a perfect join...probably not practical unless you have some other projects to use the bit on. Other than that, a tube of caulk for $1.99, can hide a whole lot!

Cool table! If you have a router table you could use these.

http://www.toolstoday.com/c-354-window-sash-assembly-router-bits.aspx

I'd probable keep them square, cut dado's for the side pieces to slide into. Then route the edge profile up to the point where they intersect on a router table. You can then just use a sharp chisel to profile the intersection.

Nice table by the way. Looks great.

Hey Murph, I don't have any helpful suggestions (what else is new?) but I wanted to say that the stand looks awesome! Really, really, nice job!

I thnk this is what Zimm is suggesting. I'm not a woodworker, but unless this is too difficult or not feasible, IMHO I think mitering the ends of all four pieces would look good, particularly with the curved top edge. It would also echo the mitered corners of the table top.

P.S. That table is really nice.

[old man voice]This country is going to hell in a handbasket![/old man voice]

Did you not know it wasn't a SawStop saw when you bought it? Then WTF?

As one of the evil ilk of lawyer/inventors I'd be very interested to know the real details of the case. Maybe that plaintiff just hit the jury lotto because you seldom hear of a jury doing something like that. Sometimes you get anti-big business, or certain prejudices that can trigger outlandish rewards, but wood working is not in that realm. You get as many anti-plaintiff mindsets as "hand out the money" mindsets, and it take a majority (if not unanimity) to get the verdict.

Now, a very common lecture in any business course or early law class is the Ford Pinto case - i.e., saving $0.10 per car because that total was higher than the expected payout to the dead and injured of the badly designed part. That kind of documentation will trigger a pissed-off jury to penalize you.

Yes, it is jury nullification to some extent. At the same time, it is a way for society to bring the laws immediately up to the accepted social morals of that little area - one district court. It will either stop there or spread to state legislatures.

I'm too lazy to go see what actually happened here, but I doubt this is a radical shift in America's trip to hell on the wings of a hand-basket. Really, my laziness in researching this rant is more indicative of that fall.

Finally, Mark it is sad to see someone of your potential so addicted to their hobby that they have to read a string of other people's comments - none of which are journalist or have a TV show...how can you trust them – just to get their sawdust high. Get better man.

Oh, and i'm thinking of buying some of those Axiom computer speakers, anybody tried those. I hear they are bright and will cause my McIntosh Amp to trip b/c they are .005 ohms. Guide me.

I never even read the comments below the article...

Anyone else notice that all the new table saws seemed to be equipped with a riving knife.

That's by law now....

From that article: "In 2009, Underwriters Laboratories (UL) will require that all new table saw designs include a riving knife."

I wonder if they have a retro-fit for my Ridgid t-saw? you have a Ridgid too, don't you Mark?

UL is not law. You can buy a table saw that is not UL approved. But it does imply you should seriously consider having it as it has proven to cause less injuries, thus the UL rating.

Yes. Mine is Ridgid too. ::Runs away giggling::

Ok, back and more serious now: Yes, I have a Ridgid 3660.

You can’t really retro a riving knife. The arbor carrier is what holds the knife and it ride up / down with the blade always keeping the same distance to the blade. There is a close retro that a guy has been selling called the B.O.R.K. (Bolt On Riving Knife). I don’t know what happened, but I can not find his web sight today.

Walnut acre woodworking.com

I use a Biesemeyer snap in splitter on my unisaw. It works well. Not sure what's available for the Rigid.

I've seriously considered buying a SawStop professional saw, because I'm tired of retrofitting stuff on the Ridgid.

I really think the only thing that stops me is that I just don't have as much room as I'd like, and a relatively non-level floor prevents me from easily moving the saw into another position to, say, give me room front and back for a loooong rip cut.

I've wanted an updated miter saw for awhile, and am wondering about picking one up today. It seems like the Makita's are pretty much top-rated, and Makita is just introducing a newer line that doesn't seem to be as well-reviewed as the older saws. I'm thinking about getting an older one while it's still available.

Any thoughts?

Its got a laser-ray, buy it!

I've been looking at a new table saw for a while now but not seriously as there are other things I need more. It works great for it's price level except that the rip fence doesn't self square anymore. I know you should always check it anyways but some are better than others and this is definitely one of the others.

I too share the challenge of an uneven floor. I work in my garage and the floor is mostly sloped into the middle into a drain for all the melting snow you drag in with you in the winter. Tools get drug around to the empty spots when needed.

I'll probably shoot my eye out!

Murph, one of the reasons I bought the Ridgid Tablesaw was for it's excellent fence, it seemed better than many of the others I looked at...stays square and clamps extremely well. That, plus the $350!! I got it for at HD.

Mark, I don't think you could go wrong with the Makita, Bosch or any of the other name brands out there, but I would avoid the Craftsman. Unless they've made some changes to the design flaws on the one that I have owned for a few years(dual bev 12"), I wouldn't recommend it. Those flaws include binding of the sliding mechanism while in mid-cut(dangerous) as well as very poor dust extraction. The motor has also become quite noisy as well.

Unfortunately, I think the dust extraction sucks (or doesn't suck) on any except the Festool.... and I'd never get Joyce to agree to $1300.....

Buy it for HER birthday!

Footprint wise, a cabinet saw takes up less floor space than a contractor saw. My floor is uneven as my floor drain is in the middle of my garage. I just found a spot on the floor where all the rollers sit squarely with the saw stable. I then painted some reference marks on the floor that I roll the saw to and all is golden.

Adrian, I had trouble with my Rigid’s fence. My journey to a better fence led me to the purchase of a slightly used Unisaw and Incra fence. I absolutely love this set up and wish I had done this years ago. I like the Incra so much I bought one for my router table.

If I was looking at brand new saws, the Sawstop would be my first choice. I’ve seen them up close and I think the quality is higher than Powermatic or the Unisaw. They are very nicely put together. The blade stop is just a great bonus.

Here’s a pic of my saw with cantilevered rail and infield table support. It helps keep the footprint smaller for those uneven floors….



I built the router table so I could move the Incra from the rear to the side for dovetail work (makes it easier to reach on the side). I've since built a little oak pod for the Wixey in the pic.

That's all B.S. That is not a workshop. I saw that room at the Delta showroom. No dust. No scraps. No kid's bikes. No blood on the saw...no duct tape.

Complete B.S.

Too Funny.... LOL

Does anyone have a good tip for cleaning glue off K-body clamp bars? I've been putting off cleaning mine for too long.

My Father-in-Law has a Saw Stop saw and it has had a few false activations of the braking mechanism and this is not a cheap thing to fix once it is set off. I beleive this is why the other companies avoided this technology.

I asked around a little about a retro-fitting riving knife with mixed response....one older fellow, who's quite knowledgeable re woodworking, at my local HD said he thought Woodcraft or someone made a kit to retro-fit older table saws, but I checked with a local woodworking store he recommended and they said they hadn't heard of any...'yet', but he thought some companies might bring one out at some time.

I just don't see exactly how a riving knife is that much better than the blade guard/divider already on the tablesaws that everyone simply removes to do the more intricate cuts, dado's etc. I would bet a riving knife would be removed more than it is left on.

I've seen riving knives that sit lower than the height of the blade so they can stay installed, on the otherhand if the knife is above the blade, it'll need to be removed for non-through cuts which would be a pain as you infer, Jay. I've had wood bind on me while I'm cutting, esp when I did my hardwood flooring and had to rip some hardwood lengthwise. The riving knife is much more robust than the normal divider and is there to stop the back of the already cut wood from binding on the cutter and creating a dangerous kick back. I've been lucky so far, no kickbacks, but I've had some binding/burning a few times so if there's a retrofit available I'd certainly check it out.

BTW, nice shop Michael!!

Most dividers I have seen utilize antikickback pawls and they actually work pretty good........ if they are installed.

After some looking around I think the Riving Knife is the new version of this old stand guard and does allow for some slightly better safety as some knives do appear to be able to stay on for those non through cuts as Adrian mentioned.

On the new tables, the riving knife simply pulls out and snaps in. It's completely tool less (except for some operators) so it's not an inconvenience at all. It's better than the pawls in that no markings/indents would be placed on the wood should it be utilized.

A riving knife, sitting lower than the top of the blade, can also bu used on non-through cuts.

I wonder if the saws will have multiple knives to make them more useable in the varied situations we put the saws through.

I have found these little splitters, anyone tried them?

Also saw this item which looks interesting, although I am not sure I could get used to running my hands right over the top of the blade, even though I know they are well away from it.

The GRRR-Ripper looks like a good idea, although it would be easy to make your own version of it.

I wouldn't use them. When you need a splitter, you REALLY need it and flimsy plastic things would not work IMHO. Just last week I was ripping some 5/4 oak with an attitude. I sure was glad I had my metal splitter.... The most popular splitter / guard mentioned most on the wood working forums seams to be the Shark Guard. You can buy the guard, splitter, ZCI or combination of all. I almost bought one, but liked the Biesmeyer better because it just clicks and in removes without tools and I hate gaurds in general. But the Beiz is only for Unisaws.

SharkGaurd…
http://www.leestyron.com/sharkguard.php

I think the gripper would collect dust. Too much trouble to set it up. I make my own push sticks. They are just simple T-handled things made out of plywood with the handle about six inches high.

I also have board buddies, but don't use them very often because I can't use a push stick with them in place.

Really, but best defense is to carefully set up the fence to run about .005" out of parallel to the blade and just good old common sense. I set my table to blade with a dial indicator. I made a simple jig out of oak that is a T that the dial mounts to. I set the blade to miter as close to perfect as I can, then set the fence to the right miter to be .005” out in the rear. I also have a 10” plate that I use, but you can get away with using the blade. The plate can also be used as a sanding disk, and that’s usually what they call them when you go to order one.

Anyone work with veneer much?? I haven’t, just vinyl laminate. I imagine they are similar to work with, but maybe not??

I ask because I’m thinking about covering an EP 600 I have with Hickory veneer. I have Hickory hard wood floors and would like to put this sub in that room. The sub has Boston Cherry vinyl on it now. I think I can run a ROS over the case to rough it up a bit(after I pull everything off of it), then use contact cement to adhere the veneer and use a laminate trimmer to cut off the excess. Maybe sand the seams down a bit, then finish them.

Trying to navigate around the non-90 deg corners is going to be a bitch. I think Axiom groves the veneer somehow, then rolls it over the corners.

Any suggestions / ideas / insight would be appreciated before I tear into this thing.

Yep. Done that. Happy to help if you need it. The sub is more of what you are going for I think. [img][/img]

Go to this page and see what I did. Sorry, but the page is now a bit of a mess with the veneer project spread around. But let me know if you want to know more. Ribbon Striped Mahogany over black

I must have removed some of the project pics, but the sub was a black veneer before I did the project. Key detail I guess.

I have the micro splitters to which you refer. Second best thing to a riving knife. WTH???? Is everyone here a woodworker/finisher? And why aren't any of us working right now?

And remember, though it can look realy sharp painted and all smooth and shiny, MDF edges don't take kindly to much contact.

Anyone planning on no vinyl or veneer, be careful, Plus, Axiom's bare MDF option is just as much $$ as veneer (Wonder why???)

The way they build the speakers is that the vinyl is actually applied to the MDF, then they're folded. Bare MDF wouldn't have the vinyl, by definition, so it's probably a custom build.

Really? So the cabinet is assmebled like a waterfall joint w/ all the joint angles cut, then laid face-down onto the sheet goods?

As far as I know, yeah.

The raw cabinet material is MDF sheets with the vinyl pre-applied. These are fed into a CNC machine that cuts deep v-shaped fold lines just a hair's breadth away from the vinyl. It also cuts dados for internal bracing and holes for drivers, ports, and rear terminals into the back of the sheets. Then, glue is applied to the v-cuts and dados, braces are inserted, and the cabinet is folded into its final shape.

It's a pretty effective process and is why Axiom cabinets are so seamless.

I'm surprised the veneer will bend as sharply as they get it to bend. When I try that it cracks. Impressive.

This is the way the vinyl speakers are assembled. Vinyl is flexible. I suspect the VaSSallo wood finishes are done differently.

Ah, yes. Good point. I built some computer speakers last week for giggles and got a decent bend from the veneer but then cracked an edge on the face forcing the issue. Thankfully they were test subjects with left over veneer.

NO, I won't take pics. They are not cute...but sound okay.

I would imagine that both the species of wood veneer as well as the grain direction would play a part in how much you can bend it, not to mention if it is paperbacked/reinforced as well.

Not sure about the species, but that makes sense. The grain and backing clearly have a big role. I use 3M backed and that let's them bend pretty good, but 90 degrees is too much unless you bull-nose it.
A truly skilled friend of mine uses pure wood veneers, no backing. He says if you wet it correctly and do certain steps you can bend any veneer to any shape. But he makes beds from 3" thick mahogany, so I am not about to say 'just do it like he does'.

Charles, did you use one of those veneer edge trimming tools on your project?

I did. Should have spend much more on it as my last little project has a big tear from using a dull blade.

The cheap little plastic edge tool does the job but buy lots of extra blades and replace as soon as you grab at all on a cut. I was surprised how good a corner could look just using that tool.

You can't really see but the sub above has two trimmed parts meeting at the edge showing. The gap is less than you would expect from using real wood for the sides with good miter cuts, which is all I can ask for.

But not to the quality of Axiom where it looks like one piece of wood.

For a picture of a cabinet ready to be assembled, gives you an idea of how the vinyl fits into the 'fold', see the pics posted on our '04 Axiom Factory tour.

Umm, what pics?

Thanks, PM, for sharing the process. Makes total sense. My M60/500 QS8's cab's. are seamless and a great veneering job, even if everyone but me is using CNC. The application of the catalyzed finish isn't great though, as there are grain voids in the finish in places (which shouldn't even exist on maple), but I was too lazy to complain, and not willing to live w/o 'em once they were here.

I had not seen those pictures or that thread before. Thanks for sharing Chess.

The speakers look very good. Unique.

How did you adhere the veneer to the vinyl? What do you use to trim it with? Can you ask your friend what the techniques are for bending it around corners?

Michael, check a few posts back re trimming the veneer, there's a special(inexpensive) tool for this such as the Bennett Veneer Trimming Tool. Basically a handle with a small, sharp, replaceable, planing knife in it.

Oh...thanks Adrian. I'm still on my fist shot of espresso. Takes me three or four to become human.

So how do you cut the sheets to a rough dimension before adhering them to the work?

I haven't done any veneer work, but like others here, I've often wondered about doing the exact same thing as yourself...veneering some nice wood over vinyl. From what I researched before, I believe there are some specialty saws like this one from Lee Valley or maybe a very sharp Xacto or utility knife perhaps?

Also found this cutter that might be usefull, or something similar to it.

I would think a flush cut router bit would work well for trimming edges smooth

Ya, me too. I have a small Porter Cable laminate trimmer but I will not be able to flush trim the corners of the EP600. They are not 90 deg. I'd have to make some sort of wedge jig to match the angles. Sometimes that works, if you don't run out of bit length.

michael d:
Lee Valley is a great suggestion, even if they are Canadian ;-)
Don't miss out on my favorite toy store, Rockler. Lee Valley's service is awesome, too!

A very good source is "Veneering & Inlay," by Jonathan Benson (Fox Chapel Pub., 2008).

You can rough cut with a blade on a cutting surface, scissors, or my fave, a rotary scissors (looks just like a pizza wheel).

May find them @ some woodworking places/sites, but any decent sewing/fabric store would carry a good OLFA brand one.

I highly recommend the 3M VHB backed veneers for the non-pro (like me). It cuts with scissors for the rough cut; the pressure sensitive adhesive is rock solid once it sets. Then use one of those cheap edge trimmers and you get good edges. Look at the 3/4 inch edge on the towers. You have three edges in the shot (against the cabinet, and two meeting on outside edge), and not much evidence it is not a solid piece of wood. I will warn you that curves on the cutting edge can be problematic, as can non-90 degree edges.

For example, the front of the subwoofer baffle is not perpendicular to the top or sides. Thus the type of trimmer I used had trouble getting a perfect edge. I was not happy with the outcome. Those other trimmer designs might work better, but I would avoid the router based designs. Too much damage potential where a razor will suffice. Can't imaging having a "little" router error on top of your EP sub.

I'll try to find my source data. We had a thread on here about it, but it has been several months.

I see they also have a type of glue you can apply yourself to the raw, or paperbacked veneer then set it with a household iron to activate the bond.

My gifted friend said the iron method does work - and he would not say that about a product that did not give a great finish. But the 3M peel is so easy because you don't have to mess with glue. If you are going with glue, then skip to the pure wood without a backing. But that can be harder as the backing gives you some flexibility.

Have I made my lack of expertise clear enough yet?

Obviously, veneering is a learned skill where results should improve with practise. The one thing I've seen(on veneersupplies.com and similar sites) is that most of my* favourite veneers are in the "raw" type which probably isn't the best place to start learning.

Do the paperbacked veneers come in the various matchings(bookmatched, slipmatched ect) or do you have to match the edges yourself? anyone know?

I think they add the 3M to the veneer on-site, so you could get matched. But some of the exotic stuff does not fit standard sizes I think they avoid trying to add the backing. I want to do a Sapalee speaker soon. Love that stuff.

Thanks guys. I had no idea veneer came in stick on version. I have only seen the solid wood type that's about 1/8" thick.

Bob - I buy from Lee Valley. I agree, great place to shop. I love their pencils and graph paper.

Michael, if you haven't tried already, check out Veneer Supplies. They have lots of info, and some really nice veneers or Google "wood veneer", there's loads of info on the web.

Just finished my last project. It was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be when I said “sure, I can make you one of those honey”. It was supposed to be her Christmas present, missed that, then it was going to be her birthday present, missed that date too, then it was going to be her valentine’s day gift….. ya, missed that one too. Now I’m calling it her belated Christmas / Birthday / Valentine’s Day present.

It’s all red oak and the case joinery is Mortise and Tennon. I built in around the dimension of the jewelry tray inserts I bought from Rockler. I sized the drawer inside dimensions 1/16” larger than the inserts, and then designed it out from there. I got the idea from some mission stile units that were listed on Amazon.

Final fit and glue up.



Ready to stain.



I hate making drawers....



Stained, ready for poly and assembly.



Drawer inserts that started this thing. (NOTE: do not follow the mounting instructions for the lid supports. I did, which is why there are holes on the lid. A mirror will go there to cover them.)

Yep. The veneer is the easy part. Finishing it to meet the quality of the wood is the real bear. This picture does not help but I tried to piano finish the black to contrast the satin finish ribbon mahogany. Looks ok live, and has actually aged better.
[img][/img]

Oh, that's nice. Drop some real craftsmanship right when I post a pic of my experiment. I'll meet you behind the gym after school!

I wish I felt comfortable cussing on the boards, because what I want to say is "Holy #*$(#&, dude!" That's a piece of fine furniture. I'm sure she'll say it was worth the wait. Wow.

Michael, et al: This caveat is only for those of you who might receive psych services, but aren't getting good psychotropic drugs ;-) Be careful about this woodworking thing. I was on and off for almost a decade. Then, I went so bananas with doing it after I got downsized from my last position and had a year off, that I had to turn pro to justify (and deduct) my spending habits. So, now I'm self-emp, a crapload poorer, but far more content.

Michael d; Awesome job, great design! And from the looks of the background, if you aren't pro, you've got the space and already flushed a ton o' cash on clamps alone. Are you hiding stuff from view, like an 18" flatbed planer and a whole Festool Collection in the corner? You go!

That's incredible work Mike!

Very, very nice, Michael.

BTW, getting back to some of the veneer questions and applications, there are veneer "softeners" available, both professional and homemade style. That might be helpfull when applying over curves or for easily damaged veneers like burls.

Most of this woodworking stuff is all Greek to me, but those two angled devices Michael has hanging on the wall is something I can relate to.

Yah, those are some big door stops.

Adrian, Rick: Since you both have been around this site for some time, could you answer a question? In the three days I've been at this site instead of doing what I should be, I have been a Newbie, a Frequent Flier, and now a Hobbyist. Not that I have aspirations, but how does one become a "corner sewer?"

Thanks for the compliments fellas. This little project wasn’t particularly fun. I’m glad it’s done. I’m finding the smaller things are, the more difficult they are to build.

Bob – Ya, I’ve got a bunch of money invested in this “hobby”. If the market hadn’t have tanked, I’d be semi retired right now and wood working was going to be something to keep me busy and help pay some bills. For now, and the past several years, I build stuff for friends and family and they end up buying me stuff in return, like a router lift or a case of wine I want. They get something they want, the way they want it and I get something in return that I want, plus I get to do something I enjoy doing.

No Festool stuff yet, but I have been eyeballing a Domino for a while now….. My next toy will be one of those oscillating drum sanders Jet makes.

Be carefull, Rick. I think this is a trick question....

Mike, as always...awesome. You are a Master Craftsman!

Yea that's what I was thinking Adrian, I was waiting for you to reply first.

Beautiful work, Mike.

BobKay - your title thingamabob is based on post count. Somebody who cares more than I do probably knows where the chart is.

TomT: Thanks for the info. Thought I was being fiddled with;-)

Mark/Adrian: So, not only afraid of solvents, but afraid of "trick questions," too?!? And I thought there were no girls on this site.

Michael d: Well, that's a good deal for all concerned. Clients are a whole other beast. They tell me what they want. I then try to convince them how they should want it. What did you get in exchange from Mrs. d for such an artful piece? C'mon, didn't you sweat and get dirty doing it?

No girls here, only men with square rooms.

Tom. I thought your title was determined by your threadjack count.

Thats some colleciton of fancy clamps ya got there Mikey!

I don't think you can ever have enough clamps Fred..... Sure wish I had more, but those stinking K bodies are expensive as hell.

Bob, she got me an Incra fense for my table saw, a WWII 48T blade and a Delta M/T jig for Christmas. We are not married so I get other things whenever the mood srikes.

I know I sure can't afford them. They look like really nice clamps though.

The Jet clamps are supposed to be very good clamps as well.

Michael d: Well that covers the obvious as well as any inuendo.

I have quite a few Incra products. Like them all, a lot. Too $$, so have always waited 'til the "next thing" and gotten some great deals on "last year's models." Seems like you got some good things goin' all around, m.d. Good for you!

Clamps: Beacuse of the $$, I have always waited for sales on K's, regardless of brand. Revo, Bessey, Jet, have 'em all, up to 72." I do mostly case work, so they're a must. They all have their +/-'s and do what I need. I am fond of things teutonic, so I'm a bit partial to the Bessey's. But hey, ever clamp a 10' cabinet? So, yeah, still got gobs of black pipe and Pony's. Even have articulating arm Bessey's for non-90's, like holding a ballister to the handrail for nailing. There i$ no end.

Picked up this Freud Dado set for $50 bucks while I was away. Open box but not a single scratch, bolt tightening mark or even a dulling of the logo on any of the blades. Definitely never used.
Groovy! Excuse the pun.

Found this table/work bench for those of us with limited space.

Thanks, Jay. That looks like a pretty nifty table. I've been toying around with the idea of setting up a workshop in my garage (I live in an apartment, but do have a garage) and am under the impression that I can do some woodworking. It's not a bad price, either--$150 at Amazon.

Looks like the accessories can add up quick.

Pretty cool concept. You would definitely have to plan out your work stages well though. Of course I should be doing that now regardless I suppose.....

I can't find it locally up here and shipping it from the States makes in a $250 table for me, so I will still have to build something similar on my own.

As with most things the accessories cost more than the original piece of equipment

It looks like a pretty clever work station but as Jay mentions, I think people should price out all the accessories before they decide on purchasing it...looks like it could get Ka-chingy.

It is the price you pay if you want both space saving and convenience

Jay, I found a couple of reviews on it and it sounds like it doesn't provide a particularly flat surface.

Cool idea though. I wish there was a way for me to set up a portable router table on my apartment balcony. I don't think this table would quite do for me though.

I would think any one of the table top router tables would work for you.

It needs to be portable.

Edit: OK, table top. I have not been happy with the tabletop tables I have tried.

I know what I want, I just don't have the $ to buy it.

I was thinking of something like this.

Back to veneering….

I picked up a sheet of 4’ X 8’ straight grain cherry. All they had was paper back, 10 mil. As soon as the 500’s show up, I’m going to…gulp….fingers crossed…atempt to veneer the 600. Wish me luck.

A fella at SMC (my other internet haunt) posted a link to a sight where a guy restores old Klipsch horn speakers. He does an amazing job and has step by step tutorials with lot of pics. It didn’t help me as I’m not going to do anything the way he does it, but it is a good sight to waste some time at. http://www.voltiaudio.com/index.shtml

I'm interested in your project, Mike. Are you going to build a vacuum press, use contact cement, the heated glue method or what?

Remember the old measure twice and cut once, and you will be fine. Errors I made were (1) placing one grain pattern in the wrong direction, (2) cutting along a curve with a dull blade, and (3) over sanding near the corners between layers.

Also, I found my guide for finishing the veneer lacquer .

Good luck.

Charles, did you use the KTM-9? Did you spray it? How was your experience?

On the black oak laminate I spraid the KTM-9 surface prep spray but used a regular water lacquer - Daft I think? The surface prep worked well, but trying to get piano gloss on black is a challenge. Very senstive to overspary. The results were ok for a first attempt, but not as good as I hoped for. Can't blame the KTM product. But it is an expensive product compared to those available from Rockler, etc.

That's probably where you need a good 'down draft' spray booth Charles, to keep the overspray from floating around and settling on the sprayed surfaces.

I really want to avoid going down the road of bags and equipment. Once I do, I’ll just end up spending a bunch of money on stuff I’ll rarely use. Heck, twenty years of woodworking and this is the first interest I’ve had in doing it. I plan to use a water based contact cement because I read that petroleum based can bleed through and mess with the finish – and I can’t find any iron on adhesive (I’d rather use that). I’m going to run a sander over the corners to sort of round them a bit. Then I plan to adhere the front first, working from the middle with a laminate roller, then ‘attempt’ to roll the laminate over the rounded corners without cracking it. I’ve played with it some, and it’s pretty pliable. I think I can do with without using veneer softener. I hope so anyway. I’ll need to make a template for the driver and air port out of ¼ MDF first so that I can use it re-rout those openings in the veneer. Well that’s the plan anyway. I got the 500’s hooked up and calibrated today (oh boy, oh wow!!) so I’ll start this project tomorrow. If you don’t hear back from me, then I’m pissed off and sanding the thing down to paint it black…..

Michael, have you checked out Better Bond Heat Lock Glue ?

I'm no expert, but based on my limited experience, I would advise not using a powered sander. I would try a real high grit paper or 00 steel wool by hand first. The veneer is so thin powered may piss you off early in the game. You are talking about a small total area to sand so no real time difference.



That sounds right. I did not make a template, and regret it as the fact was the worst part. I repeated that failure on my recent computer speakers - see how well I learn.

Be carefull using steel wool on your project if you are going to use water based stain or clear coat, it can cause tiny rust spots in your finish.

I clean with naptha after, but yes, you want to avoid rust. It messes with the imaging and shrings the 1st order reflection.

Everything you describe as your intended process will work, since I assume you're going to sand the corners of the MDF cabinet and not the veneer before applying. However, I'd take the advice and not use power at all. MDF can disappear really quickly in a pink cloud and there's not enough thinckness to powersand veneer. And I wouldn't go below 150grit for edge sanding after applying and trimming the veneer. (I use 180).

Also, I place cut, straighted coat hanger rods on my cemented substrate. Then posisition the veneer. Remove the rods one at a time as you roller your way up the surface.

We've seen your work. You will do an awesome job, no doubt.

I used a combination of ROS, block sanding and hand sanding. The dam port is glued together and I couldn't remove it. I had to sand it flush with the case and use wood filler. Just finished coating the cement. I'm waiting for it to dry, then the fun begins..... I'm committed now. This might have been a mistake.

Is it wrong for me to be a little excited by that air of uncertainty?

Pictures? Audio?

Looking forward to learning from your adventure, Mike.

Mistakes are temporary things. Mastery isn't never making any, it's being able to resolve them. Even if this goes south (I doubt it), you could still give 'em another go.

Besides, you're doing this for everyone. We all wanna know about this and you're the first guy ever at the end of the rope being lowered into the unexplored abyss.

You go. We are (safely) in rows behind you!

Right on, Bob!!

The Abyss! You Go!

Do you think we'll hear from him again tonight, Tom? Hate to think of him up all night, stuck in his shop 'cause he slipped on and fell in the contact cement.

I'm not worried about any glue mishaps. Only Michael can contain Michael.

But I'm not waiting up.

Waiting for the back glue to dry to stick the back down. With I would have done that first, dangit. But....so far so good. I'm documetning my adventure. So much for my tempate idea...... Didn't work. Had to cut the holes by hand.

Had to check on your progress. Knew you'd get it all to bend to your will. And I didn't want to add confusion, but I would have hand cut the veneer out of the driver holes anyway. You're doin' it. Good luck with next phase, Michael.

And remember... this is soooo much bigger than you now ;-)

Just waiting for the Poly to dry now. I tried some poly spray in a can this time. Don’t think I like that crap much, but I can’t brush gloss to save my life, so it did come out better than what my brush skills would have accomplished. Should be able to buff it with some beeswax tomorrow and put it back together. I hate finishing….. I took a few pics throughout the process so I can put together a step by step tutorial. Maybe tomorrow if I have time.

Very much looking forward to your final result. Sure they'll look great.

I don’t have much spare time, so I’ll make this brief. If anyone wants to try this and has specific questions, I’ll answer them as they come up.

I used paper backed cherry veneer. It’s .018” thick, so I’m guessing it’s 20 mil. You can get 10 or 20 mil. I chose this species to match the cabinets in my kitchen which is part of the great room where the 600 is going.

I wasn’t sure if the veneer would roll over the leading edge corners without cracking, so I rounded them down a bit. I used a random orbital sander with 150 grit paper. I then used a sanding block to make sure that whatever radius I ended up with would be consistent from top to bottom.



The port will not come out without destroying it. It is flanged at both ends and there’s no way to get it out without cutting it in half. I decided to sand it down flush with the cabinet. I ran some sheet rock screws in to secure it, and then filled them with filler.



Because I wanted to roll the corners, I needed a total veneer width of 47 ¾”. The sheet is 48 ½”, so it was important to set it just right. Once the veneer touches the case, there’d be no moving it with destroying it. Contact cement sticks like crazy. I used a water based cement made by 3M. It worked very well. I rolled it on to the veneer and the case with a 4” foam roller, let it sit for about 30 to let it dry, then prepared to adhere it. I also marked the center of the case leading edge and the center of the veneer to position it. This veneer is much more pliable than I thought it would be, so I had to use a bunch of spacers to keep it from sagging and touching the case before I wanted it to. I used a 2” laminate roller, starting in the center of the sheet of the leading edge and worked my way out. After the leading edge was secure and flat, I just rolled it around the corners, pressing it down with my hand then following up with the roller.

Trimming this stuff is pretty painless. I used a utility knife and changed blades often. I left about 1/16” and used my sander with 150 grit to sand it flush. I figured this would be safer than trying to trim flush. If it is not perfectly square to the edge, it will be visible and the joint will not look right. I found that if I score the paper side on the cross grain cuts first, it would cut much easier.





I did make a template out of parchment paper so that I could find all the holes later. Glad I did……. I used my utility knife to cut everything out, working to the edge by making the holes larger in steps till I could see exactly where the final cut needed to be. A little hand sanding with 150 grit finished the cuts off.

After all the edging was done, I ran over the veneer with 220 grit, then 320 grit. I don’t normally stain wood. I like the natural look and I pick my wood species for the desired look. Plus, cheery will darken all on its own. In a few months, it will darken up quite a bit. I used 3M spray adhesive on the labels to stick them on the cabinet. The little plastic Axiom badge is secured by means of two little pegs. I didn’t want to deal with drilling holes just right in the veneer and broke them off. The adhesive works well enough.









I need order a different grill to match the cherry now. The black looks like crap on the natural cheery.

Looks great Mike and you make it sound so easy.

You are doing what I hope to do someday to my system. My wife and I have talked about it especially since we moved into the new house, luckily she likes the high contrast the stock light maple has with the rest of the chocolate stained maple, so I/we are in no rush to do it right away.

Mike, as always, that looks totally awesome. I'd kill to have some of your woodworking skills....

Fantastic outcome. Nice work and good photos. For the grill, I always liked the stainless mesh that somebody did on here. It would look nice against your rack, but it is a polarizing look. Some hate it, i loved it.

Beautiful job, Michael. What kind of clearcoat did you use and how did you apply it?

Snicker-Snicker.

I bet it would look great up against your equipment too!

Snicker-Snicker.

Awesome job Mike (as usual) ... what do you have in mind for the grill?

I would suggest a couple of steaks and a skewer of garlic shrimp to start.....

And cold beer ... can't forget the beer!

I guess I could have said "beer battered shrimp" but your right, a beer battered chef is more fun!

Mike, as always, that looks totally awesome. I'd kill Mark to have some of your woodworking skills...

Thanks for the compliment Mark. I’ve seen some of your work too. I think I just have more tools than you, but certainly am not any more skilled. And I’ll never have your photography skills, as those can’t be learned….



I just used wood conditioner, then sprayed it with Minwax, fast dry Polyurethane. It took two cans to get three coats. It turned out a lot better than I thought it would at first. Kind of expensive though. I just need to bite the bullet and get a sprayer.



Not sure, probable Burnt Sienna. I haven’t made up my mind yet.

Thanks for all the compliments guys. It really wasn’t all that hard. Just takes a lot of patience, which is something I lack so anyone should be able to do this without a lot of effort.

Beautiful work, Mike. Cherry remains one of my favorite wood grains.

Oh, and I love your house. That listening chair looks very inviting!

Beautiful job Mike! Its nice to know that it is possible to redo the finish on our speakers.

Nice work! Edges all look great, and if they're good enough to satisfy you, I'm sure they're as good as the pics make them look. Would love to sit in that chair one day.

I'm always amazed when you share your work, Mike. Just think if you had patience.

Hey, you posted more pics while I was typing my first response. The finished product looks great! It gives me even more desire and hope of doing the same.

Beautiful work, Mike.

Somehow you guys have confused my love/enthusiasm for woodworking with thinking that I know what I'm doing.

I'm actually pretty inexperienced in woodworking. You've just been hearing about it the last couple of years because I've started getting more interested in it and am "building up" my workshop. Most of the things I build are FOR the workshop... kind of an incestuous hobby so far.. but I'm hoping to build some small furniture pieces someday.

Wow! How did I not see that...

Very nice work. Great job matching edges. Always a trick with my shaky hands.

Mike: There. It's over and done. Well done (like always). You have now satisfied the curiosity of countless people and put yourself (well the EP600) in grave and mortal danger for our edification. You f'rock! Your loghome is way cool, too!

Well it's "Produced", but it's all real. I'm around it every day so sometimes I forget what it really is from concept to a product.

Thought some of you might enjoy this:

"Please take a look at Fast Company's coverage of Corvo, designed by Noé
Duchaufour-Lawrance. The article includes our video for Corvo - it's the
most romantic documentary you'll ever see of the creation of a chair. You
can also find the video on Noé's Discover page."


Fast Company
http://www.fastcompany.com/1607452/chair...deo?partner=rss

Thanks for that, Jeff. Saw that chair somewhere just last month---I.D., Metropolis? Can't recall. I was taken then with it's proportions and the scooped out rail. Tres slick.

FYI: Regarding all the veneer talk lately, this month's Fine Woodworking has a great section on curved veneer methods, and various projects.

Best FWW I have seen in years - for my interest, anyway.

I'm about (holds up thumb and finger) this far from starting a Bbigwyres-style rant about woodworking. After finally admitting that the sawed-off oil drum I was using for a workbench needed some improvements (a granite top and tail vise were mentioned) I figured I would put together something with a 2x4 frame and 3/4" plywood top. A bit of research on the ol' internet quickly revealed that only the lowest of primates would ever use something like that, and that much better workbenches could be built with almost no effort and the most common of household tools.

Right.

The first and most obvious less was that there is a dire need for a standard definition for "common household tools". According to what I have read, common household tools include a jointer *or* a planer (although of course a *real* man would have both), a set of exotically shaped chisels (presumably accompanied by a grinder to keep them sharp), a drill press, something called a dado set, and some kind of table saw on which to mount said dado set. Oh yes, and every project requires a different set of drills in the 1/64 - 4 inch range, implying somewhere on the order of 175 drills to cover the range.

I'm back to the 2x4 frame and 3/4" top design. If that's not sufficiently solid I can always fill it with concrete.

If you need all those tools to build a damn workbench how many tools do you need to actually make something ON the workbench ? How long does it take to build up all that stuff, and where do you keep it all ?

This barely qualifies as as a "got wood" post, but I'm almost done renovating the kids' bathroom and am very happy with it. The goal was to do it cheaply (<$500) and I succeeded there, even after buying a $179 miter saw (Ridgid, with a laser cut line). The main impetus to work on this bathroom was that there was a bit of subfloor that more or less disintegrated right by the tub, most likely due to water damage from previous residents.

I started a couple weeks ago by ripping out the old vinyl floor tiles, removing the toilet, wall-mounted sink, baseboards, and anything else attached to the walls (medicine cabinet, tp holder, towel rods). I cut out a section of subfloor the entire length of the tub about 1' wide and replaced it with new plywood. Then I painted the ceiling (white) and top-half of the walls (medium blue).

I've never done drywall or tile before, and I didn't want to start, so I kept the pinkish tiles in the tub surround and covered the bottom 44" of the remaining walls with mdf beadboard panels, painted white. This helped hide the drywall that had a few too many visible patch jobs. Then I installed a sheet of vinyl flooring and added the baseboards, caulking all around the edges and agains the tub to water proof the room as much as possible against my splashy kids.

My wife bought a used pedestal sink and a toliet from a local re-use store (good way to save money!) and I installed the toilet today. I would have had the sink in, too, but I need to get a part for where the P-trap meets the wall.

Silly me, I have no pictures yet, but if you bug me, I'll post some.

So. . .where are the pics?

No, seriously. Where are the pics?

I like how you're talking about replacing all this stuff, cutting up the subfloor, etc, and then you balk at tile and drywall.

The third word reveals your underlying problem. Use the word, "need," only when you're spending the $$ or telling your wife about it (fools rush in). You're merely supposed to covet this stuff, then acquire it. Now, to justify, you have to "play" with it to learn how to use it. Then you figure out what you could use it for. After that, you make space for it. Got it?

Oh, and I think you mean drill bits. 175 good drills would cost over $20,000. You "need" only one. I have eight (get the picture?). A set of really good bits (30 sizes +/-) is about $50.00. I have more than 350 bits lying around somewhere(s).

Ooooh! Look at the new Festool Domino joiner! I know I "need" that for something important! And soon!

Sorry. Typo. I do not have 350 bits. I meant 250. I'm not that outta control.

That really IS a funny coincidence, because I'm planning the exact same thing for the walls in MY pink bathroom:



I'm letting a plumber take care of a new shower/surround, toilet, sink and vanity (as we're having the entire plumbing system replaced) but as far as the walls go, I had the exact same plan: Assuming that the tiles coming off the old horsehair plaster were going to leave a mess, we're planning white wainscoting to be applied directly over the tile, with molding along the top to not only trim the edge, but make up for the difference in depth (thickness).

Edit: Oh, and Joyce also wants to paint the walls above the white wainscoting a sky blue!

That lens sure makes the bathroom look roomy. The one I'm working on is small, and there's no way to capture it well with any of my cameras.[s][/s]

That was shot at 12mm on a full-frame camera.

Looks good Mark, but I think you missed a few opportunities for more pink in "Man Cave".

Your bath looks like my house when we bought it in 2004. When new in 1998 apparently there was a massive sale on every shade of pink, in every fabric and paint available. We have gotten rid of near all of it, but every now and then you look somewhere and a bit grew back. Hard to kill pink.

Peter, if you're using MDF wainscoting in a washroom, make sure you seal it good, both front and backside. MDF does not like the the type of moisture and dampness that you get in a bathroom.

Mark, just how much farther does that window go into the corner, anyhooo?

I already got my "Master Bathroom down-to-the-studs-and-back-again" merit badge. Those were NOT the Good Old Days.

I am impressed by all of you, and am currently successfully resisting such projects, despite their obvious merit.

I have a 2nd bathroom that I reduced to removing the walls and the studs about 8 years ago, due to a massive amount of mold in the walls. I've been waiting for the bathroom to grow back, but so far no luck.

Half the window is blocked by the shower curtain. The new tub/shower is going to go up against the back wall, after the radiator is moved. That'll open up the rest of the window.

This bathroom looks just as it did when we bought the house 20 years ago...except for jury-rigging a shower setup (it was a tub only).

Tom, I get no points on my man card on this. Outside of the wainscoting thing, I'm only writing a check. I keep telling you guys "Just because I've been buying lots of tools, that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing!"

I was originally going to build the cabinet for the sink, but I even copped out of that when Joyce saw one she really liked at Home Depot. I've got WAY too much on my list of Things To Do to get into "optional" projects!

Ahh, now it makes sense. So my problem is that I haven't gotten to the "coveting" part yet. I'll work on that.



I wasn't sure whether things like hole saws counted as drill bits. It seems like you either need a lot of different-sized hole saws or you need to be able to pirouette while holding a jigsaw without falling over and cutting off your nose.

While we're talking about workbenches, I was reading Chris Schwarz's workbench book which talks about matching your workbench design to your clamping needs. That made a lot of sense, so I thought about a few likely projects and what clamping would help.

The most obvious project was a set of Muskoka chairs (Adirondack chairs south of the border) which require long angled cuts to make the slats. Normally I would put my foot on the board, start cutting until I reached my foot, awkwardly move my foot out of the way while holding a spinning circular saw, put my foot back down behind the saw, and then complete the cut. I tried to imagine how a super-duper workbench would simplify this but without a lot of success since any of the fancy hold-down thingies would get in the way of the saw. I guess the obvious answer is "if you have one of those fancy workbenches then you're probably going to have exactly the right handsaw to zip through the cuts in a matter of seconds, and a handsaw won't run into the hold-downs", but that line of reasoning only made things seem worse.

Would the right solution be for your bench to have a set of dog holes running along one of the edges so you could clamp the board lengthwise between a fixed dog and a dog in the tail vise, close enough that the cut could overhang the edge of the bench ? Presumably the dogs could be adjusted sufficiently low that the base plate of the circular saw would not hit the dogs during the cut ?

I kinda get the impression that only hand tools are to be allowed near Precious Precious Bench so maybe the whole idea of using a circular saw to make the cuts is wrong

You think I knew what I was doing when I started the bathroom? I actually had visions of properly coping out the baseboard and top rail trim to make perfect corners, but I quickly ditched that in favor of 45° cuts, close enough, fit, and using caulk and paint to hide the sins. As it is, I only had two inner 90° corners to deal with.

The visuals on that one are a little scary.

Now to put that coveting to work all we need to do is rearrange a few sentances...



Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Coveting and justification all in one. You, my friend, need a cabinet saw and a nice taper jig

All this talk reminds me of an old adage I've always liked.

I don't want a boat. I want a friend with a boat.

You almost have it correct, Tom.
I do want a boat, but I want a friend to take care of it for me.

I want one of those hot, bikini-clad women I always see on boats.

Oh, and a good cheeseburger. And a nice, cold beer.

Now that I think about it, I don't need the woman....

There's that "need" word again.

to Bridgeman: Yes! Everything counts! Hole saws, forstener bits, brad points, chisel points, up cut, down cut, hammer drill bits, spade bits, et al.

Shop around for the cheapest bench you can find. I found one from Poland for $99. Then, I reinforced it and redrilled the metric dog holes. So, when I put the first router gouge in it, I didn't feel so bad.

And be careful with your "weekender" techniques. You could get very hurt.

Repeat after me: I want a table saw, I need a table saw. It's for my own safety and I'll work more precisley and efficiently.
Do it! Do it! Do it!

'til you're satisfied.....

Whatever it is....

I had no idea such a thing as a taper jig existed, let alone was available from LV. I had also never heard of a cabinet saw; researching that also answered the pending question about what the heck a "hybrid saw" was. Thanks !

So I guess maybe I don't need a workbench at all

re: the taper jig, if you extend the saw cut to the other end of the wood it seems to touch the little bracket thing that pushes the wood along with the jig. Are those brackets supposed to be sacrificial, or is there a good reason the photographer stopped in mid-cut ?

This is going to be harder than I thought. Your homework for the next week is to spend two hours per night on the lv sight randomly clicking links. How the heck are you going to covet that which you do not know exists??


I don't think its meant to be replaceable, otherwise they would list the cost of replacements. Unfortunately I havn't gotten past the coveting stage on this little jem because there is no [practical] place in my apartment to set up my table saw.

I keep thinking that the housing stupidity in this country will come to an end so I can remidy that situation, but it seems I vastly underestimate its 'strength'.

Since Sean bugged me about it, I just uploaded some pics of the bathroom project. The sink isn't installed yet, but I set it in place for the photos. The hole you can see in the floor behind the pedestal in the first two pics is now covered with a white register. The last pic shows the pink tile, though it looks more like tan in the pic.







You can't really see it in the pics, but the floor has a sandy texture to it and looks kind of like this:



Besides the sink, I still need to pick out towel rods and a tp holder, find a white cabinet to mount over the toilet, and mount a white shelf over the sink.

My latest creation, a simple laminate center that resembles a granite inlay with a Maple surround thaat is stained choclate in color. I was very surprised at how well it matched the color of the chairs:

Nice job to both of you!

Peter, your tile looks less pink than mine, unless that's just the photo.

Jay, very nice! The color combo works well!

Nice work you guys!

I guess if you list your email address on your profile on some woodworking forums, you might occasionally get an email like I did:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Manager

How are you!

I am frack wang,sales manager of Xuzhou Baoqi Wood Product Co.,LTD from china.We are specializing in manufacturing and
exporting plywood products. I am glad to know that you are dealing in plywood products,so I send this email with the hope
of doing business with you.

Here are our product catalogue as below:

construction plywood: filmfaced plywood black film and brown film 1220*2440/1250*2500

commerical plywood: Okoume plywood,Bingangor plywood,pencil cendar etc

fancy plywood: Teak，walnut,Red oak, Maple,Cherry etc

Other species: MDF,Hardboard, blockboard etc

The specification could be upon your request.

I hope you could be interested in the above.It will be appreciated if you could give me a
chance to service for you.Thanks.


Best Regards
http://www.baoqiplywood.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think I'll reply to let him know that spiritual messenger cats don't have rectums. That should get him scratching his head for awhile.....

In my opinion, there are very few 'rough' projects that you can't do with a decent tablesaw, a drill, and a few basic hand tools (chisels included).

If you Google "how to table saw" and "Table Saw Jigs" you will find a ton of articles on how to do many things you thought you needed other tools for, but don't. Mitres, dadoes (without a $100 dollar dadoe set,) grooves, rabbets, squaring wood, box joints, tenons, basic jointing can even be done if you build a jig... and many other surprising things.

A lot of times, all you need is the appropriate jig that is often built from scrap wood and when you see it, you go "Doh! That's so simple. Why didn't I think of that?"

Eventually, you will want a miter saw for quicker cuts but a table saw will do. Then you start to want to do more 'finished' pieces and you will wish for a planer for perfect sized and smooth wood. Then a router to add some curves and even to add new ways to do things that you used to do on the table saw, like dadoes. A band saw makes curves and shapes fun, and a drill press eventually simplifies many things, but I got along without one pretty well until very recently.

It is a slippery slope of never ending upgrades for sure, but I agree with Bob. A good table saw is like your first good set of speakers. Start there and build up the rest as you can.

Note:
I feel safe is saying this, not because I have so many years of expertise, but because I recently have gone through the same build up process over the years to the point I'm finally satisfied that I have all the basic tools I need. In fact, I've come full circle because I now want a better table saw. LOL!!!

P.S.
Although I don't neeeeed to, I'm buying a much nicer sliding, compound miter saw from a buddy of mine. Actually it's more of a trade as his price was a bottle of scotch.

I want a garage. All y'all can shut up.

Last year, a single outdoor parking space here went for 300k.
It's in an dark alley, but the pattern on the brick pavers is very, very nice.

Hmmm. For the price of a good table saw I could buy one of these ...

http://www.thebestadirondackchair.com/product_details.asp?id=67

... and skip the whole pending workbench/chair/saw/bottomless pit fiasco

Decisions, decisions...

Thanks for all the advice so far. I do have to agree that a table saw would make a big dent in all equipment requirements I have been complaining about. I already have a miter saw and enough firearms to cover drilling requirements between 1/4" and a couple of inches (stand further back for larger holes).

Hmmm Bowmanville. Ok. Good. Unless he acquires some ballistic "drilling tools", I should be safe.

Wood shops always center around the table saw. It is the workhorse of the shop. A router table would be a close second place for me. I use the two every project I get into. If you buy wood in S2S, a planer and joiner would be the third and four choices.

If you do not find joy in working with wood, don't bother buying anything. Just have someone else make it for you and you'll be money ahead. If I sold all my 'stuff', I could buy no less than four of darn near everything I've ever made. However, woodworking helps me keep my sanity.

Yeah, I guess I really need to decide if I enjoy woodworking, or just need the finished product. I never really considered whether I enjoyed building things or not - it was more along the lines of "building your own lightsaber" ie if you have and use certain things (like adirondack chairs) you are expected to have made them yourself.

I realize this was probably obvious to everyone but it wasn't obvious to me.

Thanks for all the advice and putting up with the dumb questions. Guess I'll go ahead and build a workbench and then think about whether I enjoyed it or not.

Oh, and Murph - when I make holes in things I always take care to point "down" not "east"

I never thought of using firearms to make a hole in wood. The tearout's probably a bitch, though.

If you had a table saw, you could easily make a workbench. Also, a workbench isn't very useful if you're not big on hand-planing, sawing, etc. It takes up more footprint than a tablesaw (unless you have a 5' outfeed table like I do) and won't come in very handy if you're assembling a bookcase or a cabinet. A home made assembly/finsihing table (the biggest you can fit with overkill lighting) is preferable.

So, table saw (and you do not need a cabinet saw!), sliding dual compound miter and a router (table expands possibilities greatly) and you're in biz.

Seriously, all bigboy/bogtoy yap here aside, you could actually make a living with those three things. How do you think I got the $$ to get all the stuff I don't need?

Rifles make an extraordinarily clean hole, even in metal. I was amazed the first time I shot a .303 at an intake manifold.

No the intake manifold was not attached to an engine at the time.

Shotguns definitely give you a ragged edge (probably requiring a rasp for initial cleanup) but have the advantage of instantly and infinitely adjustable hole size.

Years ago, I was doing a job out in the Ca desert (enviromental clean up) on an old 50's/60's JPL site for testing jet engines and I guess rounds. The 6"-8" holes thru the 1 1/2" plate steel, were very clean! The concrete bunkers were sortof a hint.

Back in WW2, those German 88's were so powerfull that on a light armoured vehicle, they'd often put a hole clean through one side and out the other before the shell exploded, or clean through a jeep WITHOUT exploding.

Build the workbench John!

I built a 13' x 28" deep workbench from 4x4s and 3/4" plywood several years ago and it comes in handy for just about anything I do in the garage, I love it ... It's also excellent for storing and collecting junk as well.

If you’re set on building a bench, take the time and expense to make it right. You don’t need to make it out of butcher blocked hard maple, but you really should use hard wood. Oak works well and it’s fairly cheap. You can use fire or pine for the verticals, but don’t use it for anything else. Softwood will twist and bow on you and you’ll cuss at it every time you try to assemble something because it won’ be flat. I’ve done this three times now, because I went cheap twice. My current bench works very well. I build it 28” wide by 7’ and it’s about a half an inch shorter than my table saw so I can use it for an out feed table. On one side I have an open tray for ‘stuff’ I use all the time, like scraps of sandpaper, glue scrapers, straight edges. I built it sturdy as hell with 4” fir legs and 4" X 1" Red Oak for the table top support spreaders 12" O/C and 3/4 MDF screwed to the spreaders. I then use ¼” hard board for the top, screwed to the MDF and it's edged with oak. After a few months or so, I’ll just yard out the hard board and screw a new sheet down. This way I don’t feel bashful about beating the hell out of the top as if it was a pretty maple top. I do all my glue ups on this, stain on it, sand, port work on cylinder heads, file ring gaps, whatever. I also installed bench dogs and a screw on the bench, but I never use it. I usually just clamp my stuff down with quick clamps if I don’t want it moving around on me. I also have good, lockable casters so I can roll it out of the way. I buy my casters from Woodcraft, they are excellent.

A replaceable top is a great idea. I'll have to remember that if I'm ever in a place to do this sort of thing myself.

I finally finished the bathroom this Sunday. Got the sink drain part I needed and installed everything and caulked. Prior to this job, my caulking skills were pretty shoddy, but now a wet finger, rag, and bucket of water let me make for some smooth, clean lines. My wife went to Target for the accessories and now the room is complete. Kids are now kicked out of out bathroom so we won't be seeing toothpaste stains all over ours.

I have been looking at plans from here. Once I have the mudding and paint done in the garage, a new bench and wall cabinets are on the build list. First up, I am going to build this to make ripping 4x8 sheets easier. They do have a fancier plan but I can't justify the cost to build the carriage and I like the simplicity and tilt out of the first one.

Traded a bottle of "The Glenlivet" to a friend for his 10" Sliding compound Mitre Saw & table to replace my non-sliding and sometimes less than perfect Ryobi.

It's just a "King" and it may be as old as the scotch I gave him so he probably got the better deal price wise but because it's an older model, the sliding pistons go through tubes that run the entire length underneath the cutting platform so there is absolutely zero wobble. Came with a good finishing blade and a table decked out with some plywood shelving too so in all, I'm pretty happy.

It's long cuts are way more accurate than my previous saw's short cuts. My old worked OK for what it was but even without sliding, there was some blade wandering that kept it less than accurate when you needed a perfect angle.

Request::
I'm looking for plans for a slightly more complex than average painters easel. Desired features would be.
- Folds down for better portability.
- Clamps the canvas board in place
- Fold down pallet
- Perhaps in the folding process it creates some storage for supplies.

Here is a picture of pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. I'll be using this pic to eyeball the construction if I can't find actual plans.Sorry for the large pic.



If you happen to run across actual plans, please pass them on, thanks.

I bought one like that from Costco years back for my father, I found this one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-GRUMBACHER-F...4QQcmdZViewItem

Might be cheaper to buy one from here:

http://www.aswexpress.com/discount-art-supplies/online/2553/art-supplies/4

Just found this site, very cool:

http://www.artisteaselplans.com/arteasel/

I took a quick look around at table saws and the entry level ones look a bit flimsy. Am I better off looking for something big, solid, inexpensive and used ?

I ran across these two which seem to meet all the above criteria :

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-Table-saw-W0QQAdIdZ192695885

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-...QAdIdZ204809234

Thoughts ?

Those are some funny looking portable easles.

I would take a look at the first one. Looks like an old beaver saw (very well built). If possible you want a belt driven saw like the first. Generally the motors are more powerful and will do better with ripping or lage pieces of hardwood. The belt will also protect the motor from burnout in heavy use.

The arbour on some contractors saws can be quite out of square or have significant runout.

The contractors saw will do fine for light duty and occasional use though.

Thanks, Fred.

Re: the easels, a couple of months ago I saw a great design for a folding gun rack (for shotguns on an outdoor sporting clay course) that looked like a few tweaks could turn it into a pretty fair easel. Had storage when folded down and everything. Will see if I can find it.

Murph, are you looking for "light and easy to carry" or "rock solid and easy to move on its built in wheels" ?

OK, I finally understand my troubled relationship with woodworking. Seems like I take great pleasure from designing things to make from wood, and enjoy using / showing off the finished product, but the bit in between (the "making sawdust" part) doesn't seem to do much for me.

Nevertheless, I just finished unloading a large carload of lumber (it's amazing what you can fit in the back of a Dodge Magnum) so I'll either be proudly posting pictures of workbenches and outdoor furniture over the next few weeks or you'll simply never see me in this thread again

That's an interesting conundrum. Are you an architect?

Yeah, or at least the hotly debated software/hardware equivalent. That particular mix of likes and dislikes has always worked out really well in the professional world (assuming what you design actually *works*); it just doesn't seem to work so well in the garage.

I would love to say that I have a great eye for landscaping but no great love for implementing the designs, but when it comes to yardwork I think I'm just lazy.

Anyways, I'm going to try telling myself that I'm only building prototypes and see how that works out. The nice thing about prototyping is that you can use cheaper wood

Speaking of cheaper wood, the quality of construction lumber at the local Home Depot seems to have gone up dramatically; a couple of years ago the 2x4s and 2x6s were twisted, heavy with water and oozing pine sap, now they seem to be light, straight, and even claim to be kiln dried at more or less the same price as a few years ago.

They(HD) also seem more friendly this last couple of years...I don't think it has anything to do with all the Lowes stores popping up all over Ontario the last 2-3 years.

Murph: I really think you'd have a hard time making a French Easel (that's it's official name). The telescoping legs alone would drive you crazy. Plus, it's gonna get all slobery anyway.

A half-french comes w/ a folding palette to accomoadte the smaller size, but no one I know liked the pallettes anyway. We usally made our own.

I make cabinets for part of my living. I have done so with the same contractor's saw for 10 years. A really good one, or a hybrid, will do fine for anything but a production shop. Really.
Plus, who wants to have to deal with a 500 lb. gorilla if you don't have to. And spend 3x the $$$.

What saw do you have Bob?

I have the Ridgid Contractor saw (mines an older version) and plan on building it into a larger table assembly like this once the garage is painted. Delta, General, are a few good names in belt driven saws, IMO. Busy Bee Tools sells a Craftex saw that looks to be of reasonably good quality for the money. Makita and Bosch sell a saw similar to mine that look good too.

The wind made kayaking too much like exercise over the long weekend so I spent most of it building this cedar lounger that I had been planning since last summer.



Fort those wondering what the odd wooden and strap contraption is on the wall behind it, it's a kayak rack with the arms in the up position to make for more room when they are not there.

I also finally stained the sand table I had posted long ago. In doing so, I quickly realized that the cats had already scratched the thing to pieces. I was going to resand and start over but the cats are not going anywhere so I'm going to call it "character" for now.

I have been away from the boards for a while but wanted to thank you for taking the time to find those links. Very Helpful.

And also, thanks Bob for the terminology lesson. That was very helpful in looking for more pictures for ideas and finally, thanks for the warning about it's complexity. Unfortunately, that only serves to encourage me. Luckily though, the wedding I planned on making this a gift for is now delayed another year so I will have lots of time to enjoy the bonfires that my failed attempts may produce.

Murph:
Both those projects look awesome! Was the lounger from a plan?

Your garage must have smelled awesome while you were working on that lounger. I love the smell of cedar. Also, although I'm sure those scrapes look worse in person, they do add a bit of character to the table.

Nice work, Andrew!

Thanks all and yes, the smell of cedar in the garage was indeed awesome.

Mark,
My plan, so to speak, was a chair that we already owned for a couple of years and a tape measure. I'm pretty sure I could clean up all my scribblings over several sheets of scrap cardboard into something that might make sense to others, if you are interested.

Thank you for the offer, but it was really curiosity.

We have some wetlands in the backyard and if I were to ever try to enjoy myself by sitting out there unprotected, I'd be bitten head-to-toe by mosquitoes.

So, yes, to beat everyone to the punch: I wear a condom when I'm out there so I won't be unprotected.

We have a screened porch which works just dandy for me, but a lounger like that would take up too much space.

Well, that could have been more fun.

Eagerly awaiting Mark's 6,000th post.

Sorry to disappoint... it wasn't very epic!

Epic fail?

Some people love getting the latest gadgets to help them do their work more efficiently. Others, like the guy I'm linking to below, do things by hand just to hone their skills.

Check out this fully hand-tool-built double-dovetailed box: http://lumberjocks.com/Woodhacker/blog/5139

Whoa. I wouldn't have the patience or skill to do the first set of dovetails without a more 'automated' jig. Much less cut it up and cut dovetails in my dovetails.

I was surprised he didn't use a dovetail saw to make the side cuts on the joint, then go to a fret saw to cut the bottom.

No need to fret about it Adrian

HaHa! I saw what you're getting at.

I guess I'm not cut out for woodworking. My first thought was that there must be a big market out there for peel-and-stick dovetails, mortices and tenons

OK, dumb question. When you want to draw out patterns for pieces that are a few feet long, what do you use for paper and where is the easiest place to find it ?

Note that I have much easier access to stores that sell farm supplies than to stores that sell art supplies.

A roll of butcher paper, maybe?

Bridg, try giving Currys Art Supply a call. They carry lots of art and drafting materials and have a location in Whitby on your side of T.O.

Thanks guys. As long as I don't have to go into downtown TO, art supplies are fine

Butcher paper was my first thought but I had no idea if it even existed any more, now that meat comes in little plastic trays made from a quart of oil. If it still exists, guess I'll look for that first. Presumably I should look for a roll of butcher paper rather than just buying a side of beef and asking to have it wrapped in paper... then again summer's here and I haven't smoked any beef since... yikes, 2 years.

Edit - I guess the other option is to pick up a 2x4 sheet of cheap hardboard, draw directly on that then cut it out to make patterns. Definitely cheaper than a side of beef.