From this post forward, I will be confining all of my disingenuous nonsense here. It will be easier to find, simpler to ignore.

If ya didn't see the screen name progessing toward something, well, then...

It's very funny to log in and see "Welcome GOD" in the upper right of the page.

You know my attention span, so I'll just be GOD for a while, then, who knows?


MANDOLINE WIND

I started looking to purchase a mandoline yesterday.
Every search engine brought me to mandolin stuff. I looked it up in Webster's, to be sure I was spelling it correctly, and it wan't in there.

So I drove to the kitchen store to see if they had any at all, just to be sure that the internet was wrong, and there they were.

I returned home and added some slice-and-dice words to my search, and bang, scores of 'em.

$20-$250. Hmmm? Was planning to top out @ c-note.
Let's check out some of the user reviews for the better ones.

"It's the best ever!" "It's a piece of shit and I sent it back the next day."

"It performed nicely even on an over-ripe tomato."
"I tried a firm tomato and got chunks, seeds and puddles, but no slices."

"The slicing options are great." "The slider bed is too narrow."

So, now my original excitment over getting something I've thought about for decades has been stalled-----muddied and confused by opinions.

I'm beginning to sorely miss uninformed, trial and error consuming. How do you think people end up with 3 blenders, 6 vegetable peelers and a Renault?

If you are the Son of God, command this stone the rest of my body to become bread work, you sonofabitch.

BlasphemerBob!

At first, I thought you were talking about your musical talents. That came as something of a surprise.

And then, the knives. Okay.

Well, since you've been pondering buying one for decades, you probably don't need it very badly.

We got a Borner V-Slicer years ago. Still have it. I only use it occasionally, but when I do, it doesn't piss me off. Which is really what I'm looking for out of a kitchen gadget. No plans to upgrade.

may i remind you, or direct your (short) attention (span) to the fact that i'm an atheist.
which means you're not; - remember the famous "to be or not to be"?

or you're nuts.

;-)

I think I'll go with that screen name after I've used this one up.

Yes, the Borner is very highly rated, but some housebound bitch in Minnesota said "NG."

And it doesn't crinkle, nor carry the waste to the compost bins. I think the >$200 do?

I very much appreciate the link. Was all over it yesterday.

BTW, WTF do you think you are to decide when or if someone "needs" expensive ephemera. Killjoy bastard!

I shoulda smacked you before the beatification, you know, when I was still corporeal.

Sorry, GOD does no one any favors.

GOD doesn't care if you're an atheist.
Remember, HE doesn't believe in a higher power either.

My turn, my turn. You know every group that suppresses and kills others, whether in the past, or now, is not a Christian, or Godly group. (I know, old testament excepted.) This includes Catholicism. They are only interested in pursuing their own agenda and prolonging their own interests. So, IMO, anything that comes out of the Vatican is straight out of hell. So, therefore you are the God of hell. LOL.

God is only God if He's the God that acts like my God.

My God is bigger than your God.

My God can divide by zero.

My God knows the last digit of PI.

how about god's mother then; doesn't she have any authority on her bad mannered kid!

My God can lift that rock that your God made that was so big that your God was all like, "Man, I can't lift this, it's too big."

My God, can't you guys stop bickering?

My God, what have I done?
(letting the days go by ....)

- David Byrne

Quack, quack, quack, quack. Geesh, where's Batman?

This is the one i bought for Christmas, sold to local restaurants.
http://www.bron-coucke.com/version_gb/index.php

Wanted one with a stand so one hand is not 100% concentrating on holding the unit upright, needed to be adjustable, completely washable, can be resharpened and a preference for at least two slicing types.

What's that women say? Once they've tried a bron coucke, they never go back?

The big ones seem to be particularly popular, so I hear. Silly me, I thought the BBC was the British Broadcasting Corporation.

Isaiah 46:9

My god is named Bob, and he's better than yours. Don't try to change me or else.... Deuteronomy 13:7-11

Back to Slicers: This will do the trick! I've used one, and it works awesome!

ChEsS!!!! That's it!! That's exactly the one I remember from all those snotty restaurants I worked in while pursuing my delusional art career.

And the name's so easy to remember. I jusy gotta keep recalling that it's bron, not blak.

MuiMuchasGracias
holy note to self: dispensations for RooDog.

Jeez, Shawn. I've never seen one like that. It look a lot less like a food preparer than it does a threat device. That does bring some big plusses, though.

Thanks again for the link.
another holy note to self: add a couple extra virgins after Shawn's apotheosis.

This Week's Supermarket Checkout HeadLines:

Enquirer:
"Osama Bin Laden--High on heroin, wife rats him out.
He cried and begged for his life."

Sounds more like a mafiosi hit, no?


And speaking of getting rich from prohibition rum running...

Boston Magazine:
"When Camelot Attacks--The inside story of the Kennedys' attempt to surpress the miniseries."

Stephen, I saw your quote this weekend.

You may be the preeminent physicist of your time,
but refering to heaven as a "fairy story," well that's a little beyond the pale.

Calling it a "story" was one thing, but ya had to make it personal, didn't ya? Ya just had to.

You know you had no right to ever think you would have a trophy wife (well, trophy to you, anyway).
Yeah, 'cause you're hot and so charismatic. Gimme a break! You're just R2D2 with a glasses and a bibliography.

And living this long? How the hell do you think THAT happened, you self-entitled, twisted-gobbed little snot. ALS was supposed to be a humility wake-up call. That was almost forty years ago!

How you gonna feel, suckah, when I let that filthy rich megalomaniac, Craig Ventner, find the Higgs-Bozon particle when he's on vacation, on the beach, by accident, and drunk.

I swear, one more "fairy story" and it's hat-trick time for Craigwipe.

He probably has no idea what heaven is anyway.

Now according to Revelations, this earth will one day (after the 1000 years, or millennium), will become the place where God the Father and Jesus and all of the angels, and the redeemed from earth will live. So, this means that heaven is a planet out there somewhere, in some galaxy. Just because he can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Kind of cool thinking that this planet Earth will one day be heaven.

...and the lions will sit by the lambs and the men will blindingly stare at god for eternity and will be in ecstasy for ever and ever.
(don't forget May is masturbation month).

I don't know about men blindly staring at God for eternity, but I do think that the redeemed will be witnesses to all of creation about the value of God's ways and methods as opposed to Lucifer's (a fallen angel) ways and methods so that there will eventually be a balance of life methods, instead of Lucifer's death methods.

(As far as May goes, I get tired of celebrating in this fashion.)

If you wonder why I still believe in this stuff, consider Roger Morneau, as one example.

It was probably his many years in telephone advertising sales that did it.

I'm sure that was probably it.

I hardly think that someone's occupation can be a deciding factor on whether they're a devout believer in something or an overall good person. I don't know much about this man other than the wikipedia article cited, and I don't necessarily share his beliefs, but just because someone did a job you find distasteful does not mean that their religious beliefs are somehow sullied.

I was being sarcastic.

Actually, this person, Roger and myself share the same religion. I'm a somewhat liberal follower of it though. I do enjoy watching his videos on "A Trip into the Supernatural". Sometime in the past I've read all of his books. I used to own the VCR set of one of his videos. All in all, I think he is being honest and truth-full in what he says, however strange it may be to some.

Jeebus, Ken. You had to know I was making a joke. Name one of my posts in the last 100 where that wasn't the case. I dare you. :P

Cat,

I'm honestly happy for you that you've found someone who helps you make sense of the world. Not everybody's requirements are the same when it comes to feeding their curiosity about Life's Big Questions™.

As I've recently come to believe -- through the help of a colleague here at work (link to his blog) -- there are no irrational choices. How a person makes a choice and how they behave from one moment to the next is determined by all their life experiences up the that point.

Here's a pertinent quote:

Sorry, Peter. I thought it was a bit out of character. Didn't realize either of you were joking.

pmbuko, good response. I like that and thoroughly believe what you've said here/quoted.

Also, my older brother (actually, only brother), suffers from schizophrenia and it's interesting, yet painful, to see his obsessive/compulsiveness actions. He is the one in control, and no doctors, religeous officials, nor officials of any kind, is going to convince him that his belief system is a little squirrelier than most people. Even though he's in a nursing home and been medicated for his condition for years, he still holds onto his earlier beliefs. 1) His stomach is dead and he needs it removed and/or replaced. 2) His religious beliefs are to the extreme where just being around him long enough would turn anyone away from religion. 3) He's always right and everyone else is always wrong.

I have to occasionally take a self-inventory of my belief system just to make sure I'm not following in his footsteps.

I've read some, and intend to read more, of this article of your colleague that you have pointed out. I couldn't disagree more with the religious principles he brings out. What he is pointing out is the modern spirituality think, or the new Satanism beliefs. There are a lot of similarities with his presentation and Wicca beliefs that is the modern version of witchcraft.

Witches/Wiccans have been slandered (and worse) by Christians throughout history. You continue to do so by using the loaded term "witchcraft".

Anyway, you have him pegged wrong as a Wiccan. He's a student of many religions and mythologies. I'd be more likely to peg him as a Buddhist than anything, but even that label doesn't stick too well.

Ok, but to me and probably most any other Christian, "same difference". That is Christian that hasn't yet changed sides without knowing by embracing things outside of the traditional Christian world. Now I've stepped in some deep doodoo. By traditional Christian world, I mean only that espoused by the Bible. This leaves out a lot of so-called Christian religions.

Please, don't.

You'll be far less likely to incite others if you stick to what YOU believe.

But, that is what I believe.... Oh well.

I have my reason, dusted with a little faith. I know I don't know what to believe.

As soon as you *know*, you're doomed.

Indeed, Tom. The moment you think you're the real deal and everyone else is just pretending... that's when you can be sure you're not the real deal.

Cat, didn't Roger Morneau leave the Catholic Church precisely because he was put off by the belief that there was no salvation outside the church? You're doing the same thing by claiming you and those who believe as you do are the only Real Christians™. What hypocrisy.

Just believe in yourself, and nothing outside of that, as I do. For that is all we can truly know and trust IMO.

..hypocrisy.. My religion doesn't believe there is no salvation outside of a particular church. Only, that you are judged based on what you know, and what you do with what you know. (Knowledge based on what is in the Bible).

It's all about character transformation.

One problem with just believing in yourself is it seems to leave little to grow into, where as, when you have someone who lived a perfect life as a model to attain to gives much more room for growth.

HEY! LOOK!

I didn't start this thread so people could discuss religion. Well, not seriously, anyway. It was supposed to be a place where I would deposit my "trash."

No one is going change anyone else's views on spiritualty here, nor is this the place to try.

And Peter, you wrote that you're always joking in your posts, but then you just made a post that wasn't joking in order to tell us you are.

I'm confused. Omniscience can be overwhelming.

Cat, ever since my accident I've only believed in myself, despite having numerous people try to shove religion down my throat, especially right after my accident when I was in a volatile state and only 18. Something else I've always found interesting is when I visit Toronto and come across people aggressively passing out religious pamphlets, they always come to me when I'm with a group of my able-bodied friends. They obviously think that I'm missing something and would be somehow better off if I followed their belief structure. I have only believed in myself the whole way, and I can tell you unequivocally that I've grown and transformed more than the majority of my friends. I've had many people tell me this.

And do you have admiration for people that strive or aspire to be their favorite celebrity or role model etc.? Or do you think that what they're doing is completely unattainable and utterly preposterous?

I'm as guilty as anyone else in this thread, but personally I suspect this could be more dangerous than the politics thread.

Why yes, I am a hypocrite, a jerk, and a nanny.

Yes it could.

Sooooooo, I was just being facetious.

That wasn't directed at you, Cam, in particular. It just happened to come after your post...

I know, Ken.

Hmm, I pick. . . .


Ken, I'm feeling very limited in my choices here.

Don't be so judgmental, Sean .

I just wanted to agree with Ken, but he didn't give me anything I wanted to go with!

I concur .

At least this forum allows us to say whatever we want to in an expression of freedom. Perhaps I got a little too serious. I just got into one of those moods yesterday, and for that I don't apologize.

I've been staying out of these various conflicts that seem to building on this board lately but I will say this, and it is not directed at anyone or any group in particular.

I thoroughly enjoy hearing people discuss theology and philosophy. I don't pretend to be a master at any of it but I enjoy how it is always thought provoking.

However, the greatest challenge in such discussions is retaining a spirit of respect for the person or people you may be debating with. For some this is a challenge, for many it is too great a challenge.

We do have the freedom to discuss whatever we want it seems on this forum and that's one of the reasons why I have enjoyed it more so than other audio or techie boards. However, the respect factor is starting to strain for many.

I encourage you to discuss tough and thought provoking topics. Please do not hesitate to strongly state opinions. It takes a strong person to stick up for what they believe in but when you use that strength, also please find equal strength to do it with respect.

To me, the real winner of an intellectual debate is the person who can state and back up their comments without resorting to contempt, intimidation or profanity.

Remember, that you need disagreement in order to have a debate. If someone didn't disagree with you, then you couldn't have the discussion. Best you can hope for then is a soapbox and hope others are still listening.

I wasn't going to say anything because in the end, I really don't worry too much about what goes on here and who says what. I have made great friends here and I'll continue coming back here to share in that and for the knowledge that pours out in the other sub-forums. But hey, if everyone is going to have their say, I thought I would have mine too.

Hear-hear! Woo-Hoo! All-Riiiiight! (And all that, Andy!)

I'll drink to that, buddy !

Presumptous basterrrrd!

GOD, be nice!

I love this forum.

Joking on hold, you've stated exactly what often happens here, or anywhere else for that matter. That's when it gets creepy.

I don't recall, in my year of living dangerously here, seeing a religious debate get too nasty, ugly, creepy, but national and global politics are another thing. They seem to head there rather quickly. It doesn't help when many opinions funnel down to 2 or 3 and then camps emerge on the cyberic alluvial plain.
(OK, now I'm being obtuse.)

People also get shatty with each other over things audio. I find that amusing. It's like watching people bat each other on the head over the name of a color. Those, too, sometimes get personal, with name calling and insults to one's intellect.

I think everything you said should be the case. All things can be thrown on the table. That's what's sooooooo cool about this place and why I come back, too. It's not like we're all jonesin' for a/v advice on a daily basis. Luckily for those in need, there are pleny of people here jonesin' to share their knowledge and experience. Also uber cool.

Get hot about something, but not hateful. Like the "Good without God," movement, we can strive for "Hot without hate."

Joking not on hold:

Jeez, Murph. Go easy on contempt, intimidation and profanity.
They are the Holy Trinity of what I find funny.

Go in pieces.

xxoo,
GODBob, or, for homogram fanciers, BobDOG

A pertinent comic.

Fer shuah.

Classic, Ken.

Great comic, and he maintains one of the nicest-looking web sites I've ever seen. Just love the design.

Oh, and BobGOD, the other day - don't ask me how - I stumbled across a web site that I've gotta share here. This woman is the yin to your yang. Her web site, not that safe for work, answers the question, "What would BobGOD be like if he were a generation younger and female?

Seriously, she is using all your best material.

You think that's a nice site? I happened upon this site the other day and was really impressed not only by the design but by the content:

http://worrydream.com/

Check out his bio. The guy's a genius close to the nutter fringe. In a good way.

Understandably, because it's psychologically rich and on target, my favorite part so far is this desktop wallpaper:

No, I'm sorry. I have to ask, "How?"

Actually, it's just a young angry bitch barfing all over an old angry bitch. That makes it doubly inconsequential.

OK. She's Greek. Trilpy inconsequential.

And she's not hot, otherwise, she wouldn't represent herself by a crappy Vietnamese nail salon poster. That's # four.

But thanks for the heads-up on the competition.

I think you can take her !!!

I don't know, I think she's equally sassy to BobGOD.

Since it was full, I went out and got one of those BAGSTERS from Home Despot. It is way cool!

For $30US, you take home a plastic bag, about 24 x 24." Inside is a plastic woven-thread "dumpster" that folds out to 4 x 8 x 2+' high.

It'll hold up to 3300 lbs. or 6.6 cu yds.

It worked so well last week demolishing an entire bathroom, that I ran right out and put one in my driveway for stuff that's been around for a year.

Now I'm going crazy looking for anything that's dusty, unused or too big for me to have put it out with the trash. It's an awesome incentive.

Then, when you're done (no time limit), you give 'em 3 days notice to come get it and, depending on where you may live and disposal laws, it'll cost about $150 for them to take it away.

That's 1/2 the cost of a small traditional dumpster, without the damage to your driveway, or killing a large swath of lawn.

Just wish I weren't shilling for WM Co. (Waste Management). Like they need my help in their world domination war with BFI (Browning Ferris Ind.).

So, get off your asses and throw some shit away. How else ya gonna make room for all that new shit?

I just fill up the half of my garage where I don't park the car (it's a double garage). When my project is done, or my garage is full, which ever comes first, I call 1-800-GOT-JUNK. For $150 they'll load up their truck and haul it away.

Jeez, if Joyce had one of those bag thingies, I'd be out of the house.

Ha! Maybe when Buddy's full grown he can help her drag you out.

I... I never knew!

But, help me out with that cubic yards math, willya? Unless, of course, by "2+" you mean "5.5+".

That's pretty cool concept, for sure.

The actual # on the bag is 6.6. I didn't do the math. Really? You looked at those numerals and instantly went into calculator mode? I can't do that unless someone tells me I have to.

Maybe they think I can pile everything vertically?
I'll post pix.

Of course now, Tom, I had to go out and re-look. Apparently, all the numerals change places if it's completely unfurled. Who knew?

It will hold 6..... as in 606 gallons.
As for cu yds., now those letters line right up with a numeral '3.'

Crap! Now I'm gonna have to go vertical for sure.

Yeah, I'm kind of a spatial reasoning savant. I'll sleep better tonight, now. Thanks.

Ken thought the same thing until I beat his Tetris high score.

Nerd wars! Sweet.


I once swallowed pennies when I was younger.


Yeah, it's on now.





Bring it.

I misread that for a second.

Either way, it's pretty impressive.





I think.

I woudn't make to a big deal of it, Sean. After all, Peter has seen Ken's Tetris.

So has all his Twitter followers.

I thought I was sending a private message. Dammit.

That has become and will forever be an oxymoron. Nerds won.

Special Delivery - got a package for ya.

A Small Piece of History

Yesterday, I attended the funeral of a friend's Dad. He was 90 and had only been seriously ill for the past year. He was mentally acute until two days before his passing.

Bill was an original bandmate, back when no one was old enough to drive, so we were all pretty cool with spending time around each other's parents.

Both of Bill's parents, teenagers at the time, were in the wrong places to be Jews in 1939. He was Polish, she was German. Ben was 18 when we was sent off to Bergen Belsen. Sarah was 17 when she went to
Treblinka. Not one of their extended family members, neighbors, or friends survived the Holocaust.

Since I've known all this for 44 years, it's just part of the backstory to me. Rabbi Moscovitz changed that for me yesterday.

The Rabbi spoke of how few Holocaust survivor funerals are left to happen, especially ones including Yiddish language and tradition. It grabbed me by the throat. Bill and his sisters grew up without grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. His parents had numerals tatooed on their flesh for their entire lives. There was never a moment when the horrors of the past weren't being rubbed in their noses, yet, they flourished. Their children attended "achievement" high schools and went to college. Everyone eventually owned their homes. The grandkids have PhD.'s. Not a shabby outcome for an immigrant butcher and his immigrant homemaker wife.

I was also struck by how this is as much an American story as it is a Jewish story. Histories from old worlds become completely played out. There's not much Yiddish about Bill; zero in his two adult children. I was witnessing the death of a culture. It wasn't sad, really; that's the way the world works. It was however, hugely poignant for me.

I looked at Sarah's name on the gravestone (she died in 1997). I thought of all the times we went to buy band gear. She was such a great old world haggler. At our young ages, we could never compete. So, we dragged her with us whenever we went to the Rock and Roll store for something big. She'd be the only Mom in there. Ben would be outside, engine idling, like a heist was going on. We'd show her what we wanted, how much we thought it should net for, then stand back with gigantic grins as she'd summon the salesman in her heavy Yiddish accent. Bill would be sooo mortified, he'd run out the door and around the block, in case other bands we know should come in and see his Mom beating the will to live outta the schmuck floor guy.

We'd laugh with her all the way home. Bill would be sullen and withdrawn from embarrassment. When 3 teenagers who go to the same 6-year all-male school see a 4th in distress, what do they do? They make fun of him. And, if they're really talented, they can get his own parents to join in the assault!

I'm glad I am, quite without ethical or scientific reason, still here to watch the changes that unfold over deacades.

Thanks for sharing the story, Bob.

Now I'm kinda sad, but that could be just "Leaving on a Jet Plane" playing on the Audiobytes right now.

Touching story. Thanks for sharing. My grandmother was a German Jew, one of the few who managed to avoid concentration camps. She, like your friends mother was a great haggler. When you have survived as much as they have, haggling probably seems trivial.

That reminds me of the TV series Firefly, where all of the cultures boiled down to 2 languages in the future, English and Chinese. Everyone spoke in English, but cussed in Chinese.

"Liou coe shway duh biao-tze huh hoe-tze duh ur-tze"

Great story, Bob. Thanks for sharing.

On a lighter note, we now present the Vatican's own Roman Decadent Period Revival Players and their production of The Wizard of Oz:

Et, tu, Dorothy?

Excellent story, Bob. Thank you very much for taking the time to share it.

I can't say it any better than Tom did. Thank you.

Thanks, Bob. I'm sorry to hear of his passing, but it sounds like quite a life to remember and celebrate.

Probably the most interesting story I will read today. Thanks.

Pope Benedict's tweets

[url]www.newyorker.com/humor/2011/07/25/110725sh_shouts_rudnick#ixzz1UOAqi7RS[url/]

The end of the world IS coming!

Nostradamus, Jean Dixon, Alistair Crowley, bite me!

Predictions and fortune tellers are for fools.

The real signs are now in the streets.

In the past 3 weeks, I have seen FOUR new Fiats.
("Old Fiat" is, of course, an oxymoron.)

When I next go to Best Buy and see Zenith and Muntz, I'm just gonna off myself and avoid the near-earth-object's global inferno.

Yeah, but what about goat entrails readings?

On gym days, my commute takes me by a new Fiat dealer. They must have 50 of those little cars on the lot.

I liked them better when they were the Mini Cooper.

I like the retro dash. They look like bumper cars.

The new Fiat is one of the few consumer products whose mere appearance elicits a profanity-laced tirade from the usually urbane Mrs. Tuttle. I agree with her.

Does the "usually urbane Mrs. Tuttle" approve of Mr. Tuttle's new avatar?

Like a Fiat, you are a "dog," Tommy B.

Bad for Fiat. Good for you! Rock on, dawg.

Tom's post is nothing but win. Perfect.

I do not typically seek approval from the CFO for my avatar. I retain full creative control over my social networking.

Until it's time to ask for forgiveness.

Moi aussi! Not my cup-o-tea.

The new Fiat looks like it should be selling tires in the first Cars movie.

Back in the 70's, there was a short-lived deal. If you bought a new, loaded Chrysler (Caddy?), you got a free Simca. A free "car."

That's what all Fiat's should be. A value-added new car purchase incentive. The free toaster for your new checking account will be more reliable.

Pet Peeve: Value-added

Pit Stop!?

Nice one.

Then you are all going to love the upcoming "color changing" fiat.
Color Change Fiat

Rear visibility ain't a strong suit, huh?

Rear visibility hasn't been a desirable trait for automakers since the 90s when they started building cars with enormous asses. I blame Mitsubishi.

First rule of Italian Driving - Whattsa behind you is not important.

TALKING TO STRANGERS

I should compile these. Striking up a converstaion with someone you do not know at all can yield the most suprising results.

Last week I had to leave for work uncharacteristically early (6 a.m.)

I stopped at a convenience store to p/u a hot choc. On my way in, I held the door for a man about my age. He thanked me in quite a profusely appreciative manner.

Bob: It's not really that big a deal. You won't remember it by 4 o'clock.
Man: Damn straight! I'll be drunk by 4 o'clock!

What part of town do you live in?

The interesting part.

Most surprising and probably most honest result.

Now, that's interesting.

Kanine Karma = “Good morning, Picasso"

No, I don’t have Ganser Syndrome, yet. This is a cheery tale for the New Year.

About 8 weeks ago, I poked Mr. Watson in the eye with my finger. It usually gets his attention, but this time, no go. I’m kidding. I was walking to the bathroom and I didn’t know he was on my heels. I turned right, he didn’t—right pinky to his left eye. He was furiously rubbing it the next a.m., so we went to the vet. No damage, just severe irritation from his rubbing. E-collar and 3x per day eye drops.

10 days later he’s looking pretty good, so we remove his head funnel. That lasted about 15 minutes before he was at it again—replace collar, add eye drops. 5 days later, no improvement, back to the vet. Now he’s punctured his cornea with his dew claw. Amazingly, there is, for minor damage like his, a restorative cornea solution—3x a day, w/collar. This is all now in it’s 9th week.

On Saturday morning, New Year’s Eve, I woke up late. Mr. Watson was lying at the bottom of the bed. I tried to talk to him, but I was slurring my words and had a minor headache. I tried again, same thing. Shitola! I’m havin’ a stroke! No, wait. I watched my octogenarian Dad have over 10 of ‘em. I know all of the signs and I wasn’t feeling at all terrible.

I got up to s, s, & s, and went to the bathroom to begin 3rd “s”. Did Bill hang a 1930’s Picasso portrait over the bathroom mirror before I got up? Nooo, it’s me! Why doesn’t my left eye work and why is the right side of my mouth in the shirt pocket of my PJ’s? Well F-me to China! I’m not having a stroke!! It’s Bell’s Palsy! So, I’m off to the ER. Not the ER a mile from home, MY hospital, 25 miles from home, in downtown Boston----on New Year’s Eve, oh, yes!


When I got there, around noon, it was quiet. Boston has a 30-year old First Night tradition. 4-midnight, 750,000 people. During my 9 hours there, I watched it get busy, then very busy, crazy busy, then simply crazy. There were parallel parked gurneys along every adjacent corridor wall, occupied. This new Sumner R. Redstone (huge a-wipe) Memorial ER has been open only 6 months—and it’s now full!

Many are in costumes, some are writhing and groaning, some are KO’d, some catatonic, but they’re ALL ON THEIR CELL PHONES! A man was there with his 8-year old daughter whimpering beside him. On my way to EKGville, I passed him and looked over his shoulder. He was playing Tetris.

Luckily, 9 pm was still early for New Year’s Eve, so I managed to sneak out of the city without any trouble, Bell’s Palsy diagnosis firmly in pocket, along with my steroid script.

So now I have to put drops in my left eye 3x per day. Unlike Bandit, I also have to take steroids, exercise my face (yeah, like that’ll be a problem) and massage it. I’m too lazy for that one, so I smear butter on it, lay flat on the floor and let Bandit lick at it for 15 minutes. (Oh, c’mon! If you guys knew a hooker that’d do that to you in exchange for ½ tablespoon of butter, your families would never see you.)

The really crappy part is that I have to stay away from “excessive dust and fumes.” That dovetails nicely with the cabinet and paint jobs I’m supposed to be starting, but at least Bandit will have full 24-hour concierge service in the meantime.

So, what goes around comes around. All dogs may go to heaven, but they get even before they leave.



DOG WINS!

Nice portrait. I'd keep that for next years Christmas cards.

Good luck with the Bells Palsy. It took my Niece almost two years to completely recover.

I ate lunch with Bob yesterday. The Bells Palsy was actually quite charming on him. He reminded me of a classic black and white film movie actor but I can't quite place him.

Bob and his "Cone of Shame."

I'm laughing with you!

Quasimodo?

I really enjoyed Quasimodo in his early screwball comedies.

how about Igor in Young Frankenstein?

Actually, Fred, that's a great idea! If I'm like your niece, I can get TWO Xmas' out of it!

A friend told me that my new smile looks like an Elvis sneer.
But Elvis never tried to have soup whith with that face on. When I attempt to eat, I look like a Medeival "trencher," but that's now fashionable a Panera, so I'll just go there.

I know it's kind of personal, but in which room do you do the other two "S's"?

I had to look up Bell's Palsy. I'm glad to hear the prognosis is very good.

I'd invite you up since you're not working anyway, but I'm afraid you'll scare my dog.

If Bill had made a slightly better photo of you in the funnel, I would have been able to make it into a great avatar.

Elizabethan, indeed.

<imagine me contributing something witty here>

Gah! Bob, are you uncomfortable or in pain? I hope that you will feel better soon.

Funny that you would choose the "word," "gah."
At the moment, that's how I say your name!

Nah, I'm OK, thanks, Tom (gah). You know what they say...

"And I in my ketchup and Papa in his cap
Had just settled down for a long-winded crap...

Gawd! Where'd that come from?

I meant to say... Whatever doesn't kill me, is more money in my dealer's pocket. No, that wasn't it either. I'll get back.

Really, I'm fi, fff, f, fene.

Some perspective:

After sending that original post as an email (w/pic) to a few friends, here are three responses:

"Bells' Palsy! That's a crappy way to ring in the New Year."

From an AZ friend who hasn't been up for a visit in 3 years:

"Bob! OMG! I'm stunned! When did you get a dog?"

And, finally:
"I guess this puts an end to your flugelhorn career dreams, eh?"

See what I've wrought?

Funny stuff!

Gold medal: friend 2
Silver: friend 1
Bronze: friend 3

JP, you obviously don't have an appreciation of how deep Bob's flugelhorn career dreams go, do you?

Where I can I buy the chains that dental assistants use to secure the napkin around your neck? I want to buy Bob a really really nice one.

Just grab a chain from an old vertical venetian blind -or snag one from Bobs windows- and put a clasp on each end.

I've been around here for almost a couple of years now and I have never, ever been so offended by anyone!

That was just plain mean...and tacky.

How dare you! Vertical blinds! In MY house?!?!? Over my dead new altered face!

Wait a minute......Bells palsy.......or..........

Botox disaster?

Kanine Karma. Part II

Hmmmm? 160 feet of new covered/heated gutters or a new cornea for Mr. Watson?

OR:
M80's in HG Rosewood AND a new killer amp?

OR:
A new Powermatic cabinet saw?

OR....

Anyway, I'm sure he's very grateful I didn't post a poll here to help make my decision.

PM66 or PM2000?

How can we vote without all the pertinent info?

I'm an old softie for the 66. I should have asked the veterinary ophthamologist if Bandit might benefit from only 1/3 of a new cornea. Duh!

Ouch.

DISAPPOINTING EINSTEIN


With so many science peeps and science buffs around here, I'm kinda surprised no one jumped on this three weeks ago when it happened.

Only one nation on earth has ever learned how to take Einstein from theory to application (there's an app for that?). Equally important, they violated Einsteinian laws of physics when they did it!

They achieved time travel to the future without the problem of increasing mass and velocity simultaneously. Though most of the people that live there have figured out, as individuals, how to vastly increase mass with no velocity applied whatsoever.

They moved forward in "time" a full 24 hours. They didn't have to even reach escape velocity, let alone light speed. No, they sat on their huge asses while they did it. Tedy Bruschi and Greg Luganis must be soooo chuffed right now.

So, unlike Tom, they took time matters into their own hands, left yesterday behind and, in a literal nanosecond, they were in tomorrow.

So, now you all of you PST's have been left in the dust, and by one of your own Pacificians as well.

See ya yesterday, suckers.

Whacky Samoans. I love 'em.

Why didn't they decide to skip a Monday? I kinda like Fridays.

Tell me why?
Sean don't like Mondays.
Tell me why?
Sean don't like Mondays.
Tell me why?
Sean don't like Mondays.
He wants to shoot
The whole day down.

Mark,

That really made me laugh. Thanks, I needed that today. (Apparently, Tuesdays aren't too fond of me)

Tuesday's gone with the wind.

Has every day of the week been covered in song?

Well, if you count the Moany Whingey Singer Cure, then yes.

Great, you guys managed to get THREE separate songs stuck in my head all at once!


Augh!!!!

I must be down wind, because I smell bacon.

Mmmmmh, bacon. Natures candy.
Reminds me to add to my list pranks. Ordering the Veggie Burger 'with bacon' at the university cafeteria. Wasn't completely a prank, it actually tasted great.

"FORUM UPGRADE" CENSORSHIP!

That is SO unfair that Steve's announcement is "protected" from our riffing. He got to dis Mark with immunity!

This gives us four options:

1.) Flood Steve's PM box with protests and personal epithets.

2.) Everyone push "Notify"

3.) Let Mark take his shots from this thread.

4.) 1, 2, & 3.

For the record, Steve, Mark is here early, because he's the ONLY one already AT his office. Apparently, it is the only location from which most forum members can access this site.

Chuckle.

Bugs Bunny: Of course, you know dis means war.

Luckily, having his gas mask close at hand, Mark is already prepared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az-HsO04zkU

If you don't think my ideas about "funny" are anywhere near yours, don't bother.

Thanks, Bob; that video is absolutely hilarious!

Very funny.
I'll have to show that to my Dad who once warned me not to let a British foreign exchange friend of mine leave the house with "that old church-lady umbrella he's got there."

Loved it Bob!, sent it on to a few friends.

POST 2000!


For my 2000th post, I wanted it to be something memorable.

Actually, the funniest thought I had about it is to never post it--stop @ 1999. I realized, however, that would please some people to no end, so I quickly dismissed it.

Before you watch the office-and-children inappropriate video, I have a related joke that my shrink told me this morning.

A man wakes up in the hospital. The attending nurse explains to him that he's been in a very bad car accident and the doctor will be right in to speak to him about it.

The doctor arrives and tells him he has some very bad news. "I'm afraid your penis was amputated in the crash." The man is horrified.

"Wait, wait," said the doctor. "There is some great news. We now have the capability to reconstruct one for you. Even better, your insurnace will pay up to $9,000!"

"Well how much is the surgery," the man asked.

"$1000 per inch, replied the doctor.

"I have to discuss this with my wife, as it's her decision as well."

"I understand. Is two days enough time to decide."

"I think so."

Two days pass. The doctor goes to the man's room to pay him a visit and learn of the decision.

"Well, have you and your wife had ample time to discuss this thoroughly?"

"Yes, we have."

"And what is your decision, then?"

We've decided to go with granite coutertops.



http://vimeo.com/17607134

ASH WEDNESDAY REMINDER

Do not forget to have a fey, robed man press his manicured-yet-besotted thumb against your forehead today, my Katholic Komrades.

As a kid, we all thought it was very cool and wore it as a badge of honor. Then again, we thought that casually munching on purloined hosts behind the rectory was cool, too.

I don't feel that way about Ash Wednesday anymore, now that I have a good idea just where some of those thumbs have been.

For lent, I think you should all give up the forum. That'll give GOD 40 days to really clean this place out.

I just watched the Evil Boy video. I didn't make it all the way through. Now I am going to have to watch season one of Little House on the Prairie to get my mind straight.

Who taught Bob how to post a link?

Catholic is 90% tradition. I don't follow much tradition.

Catch the church on a technicality and give up religion for Lent. You'll never go back .

All religion is heavily traditional. Religiously, nobody would believe the things they do unless people before them believed much of it, too. Most religions started as oral tradition, passed down from generation to generation.

Today, for Christians, the only sure thing they have for a guide is the bible. All else is tradition. You can say all matter of things against the bible, but that doesn't invalidate what makes up the Christian religion. So, it's either the bible and Christian, or it's nothing, in my thinking. So, either God left us with a guide book for these last days, or it's all bunk. Generally, those who choose "it's all bunk", have never devoted a large portion of their lives studying it. I could easily say the same thing about today's science, because I've not spent a large portion of my life studying it.

Allow me to retort with one of my favorite (go-to) quotes:

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”

- Neil deGrasse Tyson

ah science, I love it, I really do. The funny thing about science is, its always changing... always.

Kinda the point.

One problem with science is there is too much theory which later turns out to be false. Just because it's called science doesn't prove it to be true. Science can only show us what we can observe or measure at a moment in time. Me thinks that men then apply their presuppositions to what has been observed and measured to explain things that can no longer be observed or measured. Thereby falsifying their science.

As I've said elsewhere:

Religion is not science and therefore is not subject to proof.
Science is not religion and therefore is not subject to belief.

Stop mixing them up please, everyone.

The more and more I learn about physics and sciences, the more and more I realize we really don't know anything and there is most likely something much greater than ourselves.

The bulk of scientific discoveries have been to prove previous scientific facts as false. Isn't it ironic.. don't you think?

I'm flattered! :P

Bren R.

Nice. I'm stealing this.

But then we wouldn't have a good, inflammable, hot topic to debate (argue over).

(1) Overgeneralize much?

(2) You may be right. But that shouldn't discourage scientific inquiry, should it?

(3) Says who? There's a lot of scientific discoveries that don't contradict anything. Rather, they add something entirely new to our knowledge base. Then, there's a lot of scientific discoveries that reinforce current theories.

Here's one person's viewpoint.

Copied in total here:

Will modern science be proved wrong?
Me and my sister were discussing this earlier. Will currently respected knowledge be disproven in the way science always has been in the past?



It depends what you call respected knowledge. Most top scientists don't view the world with the same certainy that more ignorant people do.

Some things that the media calls science are not science at all, but just wild speculation.

The media is obsessed with the work of a few scientist such as Einstein. Einstein was known to be wrong about much of his work at the time he published it, yet the media has always portrayed him as an infallible genius.

Stephen Hawking's work on Black Holes is also highly speculative and not supported by any hard evidence.

The Big Bang theory is taught in schools as fact, even though there is no evidence to support it other than the direction of travel of observable matter. There are tremendous holes in the theory.

Chemisty as taught in schools has always been bogus. The image given of electrons flying around atoms is pure nonsense. It works as a way of understaning chemical reactions, but it is not reality.

Modern medicine is very young and is often based on bigotry and vested interests, so much of it is wrong. Big money will sadly always pervert medical research efforts.

Modern Geology is an even younger science. We are only just learning how to measure and understandand the behaviour of the earth beneath our feet.

Evolutionary biology is still short of sufficient data, to have a complete picture of the evolution of the species. Some evolutionary events such as animals becoming warm blooded cannot be determined from fossils and skeletons, so we are guessing for now. In the future we will know better, if intact DNA is ever found in prehistoric bones. The more DNA we find and decode of more recent species, the more we understand of the evolutionary process.

Most physicists agree that there is great uncertainty about science's understanding of the universe. Most theories have serious question marks over them, and there are theories, such as the existence of parallel universes, which we do not have any way of testing at this time.

At the begining of the 20th century Heissenberg proved beyond doubt, that no physics experiment could ever be 100% reliable. Other's showed the physical world to be random and chaotic, rather than ordered according to Einstein. Einstein went to his grave still trying to refute what no-one else continued to believe.

All science is by definition experimental. It should never be regard as certain. That is not to say some science is beyond reasonable doubt. For example no-one is yet to challenge Newton's laws of motion (taking into account relativity).

You should always remember that most scientists need to earn a living so you need to look at their motives before you blindly accept their claims. That is why unviersity scientists sponsored by Nestle's will claim powdered milk is best for babies in the third world, whilst government scientist all agree that breast is best.

These last days? Where in the Bible, your guide book, does it tell us that these are the last days?

I firmly believe that the Bible was written by intelligent people -- people who were capable of nuance and using metaphor. Unfortunately, it's usually people who do not possess those same qualities that feel obliged to define Christianity as narrowly literal or nothing.

Good day to you.

Daniel 2: The statue, Gold head=babylon, Silver chest/arms=Greece, Bronze belly/thighs=Meads/Persians, Iron legs=Rome, Feet a mixture of iron and clay=Europe. Then a stone from heaven destroys the statue.

This represents the succession of power in the Asian/European Continent. The next step is the return of Christ. (End times started at the fall of Rome, and succession of power by the early Europeans, in this example).

Revelation 13:17 "so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name." (Forget what the mark or who the beast is at this point, doesn't matter. The important piece is the ability to turn off your buying and selling power. Think world bank. Once a government and/or financial institution has the power to turn off your financial ability to provide for yourself, based on, say, your religious beliefs, this is a big sign of the end of the world, according to Revelations. We're getting close to that point.) The next point made in Chapter 14, is the return of Christ.

Also, many areas that are filled with how people will think and interact with others are spread throughout the new testament that signal the end of time. Those things are more pronounced today than ever before.

(1) Isn't the topic of science vs. religion general?
(2) Of course not, we should always strive to explain and know the world around us, but never refute or negate something that cannot be disproven.
(3) The sciences has been in existence for a milennia or more. Much of the early sciences has of course been disproven. Even today Newtons 3rd law can be disproven in certain occasions. Many of the new theories are in contrast to what is considered proven. Science is ever evolving, but you are right, many things discovered have added and enforced current theories. Other have not. It take just as much faith to belive in a god, as to not believe in a god.

::scratching head::????

Wait, what's "art", again?

I agree.

Ditto, but I prefer two because I'm a motorboatin' sonofabitch!

Tom, you surprised me. Isn't it you (or maybe Peter?) that taught me bacon is art? Unless of course your name is Art, in which case you're not necessarily bacon.

Atta boy, Cam!

What suckers! You guys are a scammers dream. You will bite at anything that emits the slightest whif of the ecclesiastic. 'S'why I love you. You wear your psych "buttons" on the outside.

It's great fun to watch everyone stand on their toes and, with middle finger extended, reach for the highest point they can to make contact with the definitive. It's not scotch-taped to the ceiling!

The MOST fun about all of this is that everyone's opinion is valid and simultaneously meaningless. Validity is temporal. Monotheism was not valid. Look what happened to those couple of Egyptian Pharoahs for trying too "soon." Washington and Jefferson thought it was "valid" to make oodles of dough by owning the help. It was once valid to think of women as possessions. Some Muslims think it's valid to kill your daughter if she disgraces the family. Copernican validities fall. Newtonian validities fall. Entropy of the "valid."

And expectations of shared meaning? Go ahead. I dare you. (Esperanto anyone?) GOD and I will be there, waiting for all of you to get out of rehab.

Shit happens, stuff changes.

Hey, don't get me wrong. Go ahead. Bitch slap each other unto apotheosis. I love to toss a single french fry into a McDonald's parking lot full of seagulls. It's like buying everyone else's drinks and having none yourself. I get to sit back and watch the excitment by hurling just one ball down one maple lane and taking out every pin in the entire alley.

Unfortunately, 19th century Congressional mores no longer exist. We cannot legislate the Mormons out of our state any longer, nor can we tax the Chinese at a higher rate than immigrant white people. Too bad. It used to be such a simple way to settle our differences.

Once again, you are treading on belief systems. Only if you were raised in a thoroughly secular environement and knew of nothing else, might you be entitled to a disinterested opinion on religion.

You cannot be correct. You cannot be incorrect. You can only become irrelevant, THE Original Sin!

More advanced degrees in the study of belief systems have been awarded than the total number of A.A.'s from University of Phoenix. As you may be well aware, none of them has managed to resolve anything to anyone's satisfaction but their own and maybe a few sycophants. And no one here wrote their dissertaion on belief systems, did they?

Wait! There does exist a nation of people unified by totally shared belief systems---North Korea!

So the next time you wanna discuss the religion thing, please hijack a f'Stereo Thread and post:
"American Buddhists believe that each and every solid state amplifier sounds different from all others on earth."

Anyone who does not fall in line with ALL of my belief systems is an evil moron and is going STH, or some other place with no Michelin or Zaggat's ratings.

Bobstradamus' Predictions: Quatrains will cease to be a valid style of composition.

After Mein Pope is safely on the last train to Nuremberg, the new Pope will be from America.

Mark my words. When the next conclave has retired, smog will rise from the Vatican chimney.
And it will smell like Brooklyn...lower Brooklyn.

Holy smokes, I wish I sat next to Bob in school.

Then you, too, would have an A.A. from University of Phoenix. And with the same crappy cume.

Edit: Sean, you a-wipe! Do you have any idea how many flashbacks you just set off in my head?!?

Mission accomplished!


Oops, lemme go straighten my degree--the magnets slipped on the fridge.

Did you get a special deal because you could commute to University of Phoenix and not have to tie up the US Mail?

Do you know how many people have made 'this is going to happen soon!" predictions from close readings of the Bible and had those predictions turn out false? People from every era have been able to apply passages to current events and had them seem to fit contemporary circumstances.

If you do take the Bible to be a source of truth, why do you ignore Matthew 24:36 and 24:42? They seem pretty cut and dried and require no speculation as to their symbolic meaning.

Yes, the backside of my degree was also my parking permit. They said if they pressed hard enough the name might bleed through. I told them my name would be backwards, though.

They admitted me to the advanced classes.

Optimist: the glass is half full

Pessimist: The glass is half empty

Buddhist: There is more glass than what is needed

Bob: *

Engineer: The glass is performing to spec.

Tom: <gulp>

Ken: LOL!

Ken: I can't stab my glass.

Sure I can! It just gets beer everywhere, and that would be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj9FKODNPr0

I have absolutley no idea what this Chinese GirlPop video is about, but it did relieve my boredom for almost 5 minutes.


It's so syrupy, it makes Selena Gomez sound tough.
I thought that was impossible, but, once again, the Chinese have beaten us at our own game.

That was pretty good. I don't see too much of Chinese stuff but some Thai and lots of Korean which is really popular in Thailand.

IN OFFENSE OF DEFENCE

Since this has been such a long and fat legged story for the past week+, its' been on my mind. I would very rarely be able to say, on this forum, that I have thought about something for a longer time and more deeply than any other member, but this time, I think I may have.

For the record, I do NOT see this as a political or religious issue, yet the separation of church and state has gone a bit wackier than usual on this one.

I should be able to (legally--federally) marry anyone I please. I should be killed by my closest friends the instant I announce that I'm going to exercise that right. My view here may be singular, but it's not personal.

Why would I elect to particpate in a social (church, state, cultural) construct that fails for half of those who do? It seems hardly something to defend when more than every other one of "you" is willing to ignore it (when it suits you) violate it (when it suits you) or abandon it (when it suits you). Where's the sanctity in that?! The results are almost always devastating for everyone and the adults involved are not the ones being most damaged, though their solipsism in those circumstances may lead them to believe they are.

I had a leather epiphany in 1983. I realized that gay men in leather were actively adopting the outward appearances of the very people who would oppress them. Longing for the right to marry is hardly different.

And making, buying or negotiating for children? You've got to be kidding me. You selfish bastards! You've been absolved from those responsiblities just by being what you are. Use that time, money and effort to work for the greater good. Make 20 kids lives better, or 100, or 1,000! You don't need to get to anyone's recital or make dinner for anyone. You're free to be a humanitarian. How many people get to do that? Your club-dancin'-with-fat-girls days are over, you airheaded little "foggot." You have a larger purpose.

You want to adopt non-infants/toddlers of any race, older foster kids? Now you're talkin'---and you're not pretending anything. Awesome!

If we had any self-respect, and we don't, (it's not fully allowed yet, anyway), we wouldn't want to immitate others in the search for ourselves. "Well, if we try to be more like you, then you'll more readily accept us." Bullshit. Hasn't 50 years of Black civil rights struggles demonstranted anything to anyone?!!!! Crap, it hasn't even taught women anything.

Why? Because everyone is longing for homogeneity. Women's primary method to achieve equality? Adopt more of men's values. Everyone becoming straight, white men is the answer to nothing.

Since I'm not you, I'm not going to long to become you, got it?
I want none of the things you value the most; wealth, power, status, and hot babes. The first three are used to control others and I've never found the attractiveness of youth to be compelling.

See, I'm just me. Not for a moment do I want to be you, but I want to be allowed to get away with everything you do, though I may choose not to be that stupid.

n.b. "you" doesn't indict anyone of you, necessarily, but if you're an SWM, then you qualify. I really wanted to use "you people" in purple and red, all caps. You DO know that I can say "you people" and not be perceived as a biggot, right? Who's got da powah now, bitches?

P.S. And if you really do hate gay people that much, then, don't let them get married, FORCE them to!!!

Amen, brother.

God Loves Diversity.

Who?

(You bastard! I write a novella, you respond with five words and one of them is God!! GOD!!! All I can think of right now is Squeeze's "If I Didn't Love You I'd Hate You.")

Well, technically, if you have the first three then the fourth one just seems to happen as a bonus.

OK, to be more serious.

I disagree with you a little Bob. Above, you're looking at gay marriage in the big terms of social mores and morals and civil rights.

While I agree with you that maybe some people want to get married to prove something or to make a statement to society, why trash marriage if two people simply want to make a commitment to each other (and I AM talking about marriage, not a "commitment ceremony")?

Hey, to be frank, I don't disagree with your assessment of marriage as a whole....One Man and One Woman or Gay/Lesbian. But some people DID grow up thinking that when you love someone, you want to make a commitment (legal, religious or social) to that person. And to deny that to those who want it is wrong.

In short, you telling people that they shouldn't want marriage isn't all that different from those who might say someone can't have marriage.

As far as having kids, people of all types should consider doing more to help the ones that are already here.

Kumbaya, Live Free or Die, To Each His/Her Own, As Long As You're Not Hurting Others, etc.

It's all good and it's all cool.

Peace. <-- Emoticon specifically to annoy Bob!

Oh, you've gone and done it now.

C'mon, If your going to annoy Bob, do it right.


And you can't complain Bob, because you promised me one free emoticon. I saved it for just such an occasion.

I actually did take the time to look for gay marriage emiticons but they were all too boring. Plus I'm not convinced that the emote with the veil above is really female.

Actually, you don't disagree with me, Mark. (Ha! That's a good one---"no, you're wrong, you don't disagree with me!")

I think everyone should get to do whatever they please, as long as no one gets hurt without paying for it in advance. Marriage is what married people make it. I know lots of married people who are happy to be so. Way cool-----for them. I know grandparents who were never married, raised a family, retired, etc. And, yes, I know gay people who are married and happy to be that way. Sickos. Kidding.

However, being technical here, if you've had sex outside of marriage, ever, then you're already guilty of ignoring it and violating it. Boy, rules can really suck, huh?

Thanks or the effort anyway, Murph. Please don't get me going on the betrotheds' gender costume choices for the ceremnony.

Here:

LMFAO

or is that FMLAO?

Talk about a stimulus package!

I read this somewhere recently:

"I'd watch the $#@* out of Gay Divorce Court."

Yeah, no doubt!

The mind boggles.

Nice post, Bob. Although it was a little hard to make out what you were saying with that crazy ranting homeless guy beard that you're wearing.

Well, I don't know what it is but it's not marriage.

The central institution of human society from literally time immemorial is the heterosexual family unit. It is the institution upon which all other institutions stand.

In all of human history, no society has ever condoned homosexual marriage. Marriage is a creature of the state, rooted in culture. I can understand why homosexual couples would want all of the economic and trust benefits of marriage. But why marriage?

Why adoption? Why the propagation of the homosexual lifestyle in everything from popular culture to grade school text books?

Personally, I don't think this is a good thing for civilization because it undermines the central institution of our culture.

Just my opinion.

Bob, that's my feeling about it, too. Everyone should be allowed the same choice, or chance, or crap shoot?

It doesn't undermine anything whatsoever that traditional marriage represents. Men and women will continue to marry. Many heterosexual married couples will continue procreating, raising children, and avoiding divorce.

Perhaps the "undermining" come from the fact that more and more families are passing on to their children the belief that discrimination in all its forms has no place in a democratic society.

Marriage wass about lineage and the rights of legitimate succession. It was power brokering. Ask a coulpe of dead Russian nobles why they were sent there from "civilized" Europe.

You know, Dave, I called out your predictable repsonse to someone at about 1 o'clock this afternoon. That puts it 6 whole hours ahead of your actual post. Surprise me sometime, why dontcha? "Rooted in culture" is meaningless, as culture is fluid, especially now, globally.

Slavery was rooted in culture. Women and children as possessions to do with as a man pleased was (is) rooted in culture. Xenophobia is rooted in culture. Forced genital mutilation is rooted in culture. It's a very long list. Hell, one could call Nazism "rooted in culture." Culture is an explanation for why/how things are in a given place and time. It is based neither in fact, nor in the immutably physical. The only thing that it does for certain is change.

Propagation of a homosexual lifestyle? I'm afraid you'll have to own that fearful and misinformed belief. Being homosexual is not a lifestyle. You probably engage in more of a lifestyle than I do. I don't even know what that means. And if you think gay people who adopt or become parents in some other way are raising gay kids, then you're beyond ill-informed. I know of not one person raised by a same sex couple who is gay. You can't inculcate gender proclivity.

Rooted in Culture...let's see; rape, murder, incest, bigotry, intolerance, anti-Semitism, racism, sexism, violence. You know, you're right. I think we should keep it all just the way it is. Just don't call any of us for assistance when they come for you. What? That will never happen to you because you're just like everyone else? Congratulations! Liar!

In case you're looking for a new career position, I hear that Reverend Phelps is looking for a new PR person.

Some marriage trivia: The wedding band used to be worn by the woman alone and was a sign of ownership.

Bob, having gone through the ringer on this, I agree with you about the institution of marriage, but... Seems to me that it is about having access to all the same things that straight people do, regardless of how good or bad said things might be.

Bingo, Fred!!! Like so much other stuff in life, I don't ever wanna do it, but I want for people who do to have nothing standing in their way, except of course, for my scowling disapproval, which counts for shit, but makes me feel better.

There seem to be an awful lot of people that think this way right now.

My mother got to see some non-Jewish neighbours dragged off by the Nazis (I think it was actually the SS) for some perceived offense.

Be careful what you wish for...

Well said, bud. I too saw an ignorant response like this coming from him the moment I read your post. I also suspect that most of those whom withhold comment are of the same ilk.

Regarding no society has embraced homosexual marriage - I've read that there's historical evidence that gay marriage was common as far back as medieval times.

"Remember, we have not established a revolutionary value system; we are only in the process of establishing it. I do not remember our ever constituting any value that said that a revolutionary must say offensive things towards homosexuals, or that a revolutionary should make sure that women do not speak out about their own particular kind of oppression. As a matter of fact, it is just the opposite: we say that we recognize the women's right to be free. We have not said much about the homosexual at all, but we must relate to the homosexual movement because it is a real thing. And I know through reading, and through my life experience and observations that homosexuals are not given freedom and liberty by anyone in the society. They might be the most oppressed people in the society.

And what made them homosexual? Perhaps it's a phenomenon that I don't understand entirely. Some people say that it is the decadence of capitalism. I don't know if that is the case; I rather doubt it. But whatever the case is, we know that homosexuality is a fact that exists, and we must understand it in its purest form: that is, a person should have the freedom to use his body in whatever way he wants.

That is not endorsing things in homosexuality that we wouldn't view as revolutionary. But there is nothing to say that a homosexual cannot also be a revolutionary. And maybe I'm now injecting some of my prejudice by saying that "even a homosexual can be a revolutionary." Quite the contrary, maybe a homosexual could be the most revolutionary.

........

We should be willing to discuss the insecurities that many people have about homosexuality. When I say "insecurities," I mean the fear that they are some kind of threat to our manhood. I can understand this fear. Because of the long conditioning process which builds insecurity in the American male, homosexuality might produce certain hang-ups in us. I have hang-ups myself about male homosexuality. But on the other hand, I have no hang-up about female homosexuality. And that is a phenomenon in itself. I think it is probably because male homosexuality is a threat to me and female homosexuality is not.

We should be careful about using those terms that might turn our friends off. The terms "fa**ot" and "punk" should be deleted from our vocabulary, and especially we should not attach names normally designed for homosexuals to men who are enemies of the people, such as [Richard] Nixon or [Attorney General John] Mitchell. Homosexuals are not enemies of the people." ~ Huey P. Newton

One thing that Huey mentions is how he has no problems with female homosexuality, and this is virtually always the case with men against gay marriage. If they were asked to be in a threesome with two very attractive ladies, the guy wouldn't turn it down if they were married or not...

Or you could be a homophobe that's a self-loathing gay person..... linky.

My goodness, Liar? BobK, really? I am a liar for expressing my opinion? That's not very rational, of you, you know.

FredK, compares taking the position that although homosexuals should be afforded all communal property and other rights which are incident to marriage (except adoption), that marriage as an institution should be reserved to men and women, to the Nazis and their European friends rounding up Jewish families and exterminating them. Forgive me for saying, but don't you think that comparison is ... not to put too fine a point on it, but ... moronic?

BobK argues that suggesting that the institution of marriage if limited to men and women, is akin to such institutions as slavery, rape, murder, incest, bigotry, intolerance, anti-Semitism, racism, sexism, violence and those of the National Socialist abomination. I'm sorry, BobK, but your argument is bereft of any rational or moral force. But, I must say, your spewing is pretty emotionally charged, though intellectually ... well, lacking.

FredK, may I assume your mom watched her Jewish neighbors carted off before she observed "non-Jewish neighbors dragged off by the Nazis ..."? Was living as a citizen of the Third Reich good in the beginning but tough on the family toward the end?

You all might examine the reasons you are reacting with such venom, emotion and ignorance to the suggestion that although I think gays should enjoy all the incidents of marriage, except adoption, I nevertheless believe the institution of marriage should be reserved for men and women. Why would any rational person compare the holding of that opinion to Nazism, murder, incest, or slavery? I'll help you all here. No rational person would make such an odious comparison.

Have you all been taking drugs?? Are you feeling intellectually impaired today?

That's my opinion. BobK, it is churlish to suggest that holding an opinion make one a liar.

Just my opinion ... in a country where holding an opinion has not yet been made a crime even though obviously there are many morons who would if they could.

BobKay was making a point to counter your "Marriage is a creature of the state, rooted in culture" assertion. Bringing Nazism into it was probably a bad call -- it never helps any argument, regardless of whether or not it fits (and I'm not saying it does here). Let's focus on the slavery comparison, instead.

Do you disagree that slavery was once a creature of the state? Do you disagree that it was rooted in culture? I doubt it. Bob's point was that these qualities of an institution like marriage are not sufficient cause to preserve it. Just because we've always done it that way doesn't mean it should not be revisited.

Yeah, Peter, you'd have thought a person of 2x6's unimpaired intellect would have caught that.

The many States of the United States have laws regarding marriage. There is no Federal law of marriage. There have been racist laws in the past which made unlawful marriage between men and women of different races. These anachronistic, racist laws were properly abolished by the United States Supreme Court holding in Loving v. Virginia. It is now lawful in every state for a man and woman of any race to marry.

This holding honors the institution of marriage and our notion that no civil liberty should be abridged by reason of race or religion.

The fundamental institution of marriage, setting aside race or religious based aberrations which burdened the institution, is not a property interest, not bondage, nor slavery, nor whatever our communist, anarchist, or severely confused nut job friends would have you believe. Marriage is the fundamental institution of our society.

I believe it should be reserved for relations between a man and a woman. I do not believe it should be expanded to include relations between men and multiple wives, or wives and multiple husbands, or between men and men, or women and women, or between any human gender and any other species of animal.

Now, where you draw the line may differ from where I draw the line. But this is my opinion. It is not a fringe opinion and it is not an opinion from which any rational person could infer that I am a Nazi, or favor slavery, or cruelty to animals.

However, morons might draw such unfounded inferences from a perfectly wholesome opinion.

Don't let me slow you down from your self righteous though thoroughly confused tirades.

When I still see this kind of attitude, I really have to wonder. An almost 50% divorce rate amongst "heterosexual" couples in the U.S., wife abuse, child abuse(all increasing) and billions of dollars in defaulted, unpaid alimony and child care payments? Forgive me, but when it comes to "undermining" the so-called central institution of our culture, given the above, a very small percentage of same-sex couples wanting to marry is the least of our problems. Add to that that pretty well all of the industrialized world including mine(Canada), this is essentially a non-issue and we haven't "gone to hell in a hand basket".

Yes, wonder is good.

Just because the institution is under stress doesn't mean it should be kicked down the stairs.

I don't think the US divorce rate has hit 50%, closer to 33%, is my understanding. Child abuse is an indictment of the institution? That's a head scratcher.

But then again, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument. Please, carry on!

Maybe cam can quote some lengthy screed from some socialist manifesto to spice up this thread.

You've already thrown the crushed red pepper flakes into a hot pan with your own responses. Cam's "spice" would be lost in the painful, tear-inducing cloud already present.

Your opinions is definitely not a fringe one, but the number of people who hold it is diminishing. I honestly believe that in my lifetime, we'll look back on this issue with shame that we hadn't done away with the prejudice sooner.

As the overturning of California's Prop 8 shined a light on, there's no demonstrably rational or logical basis for preventing two consenting adults of the same sex from entering into a legally-recognized, committed relationship that enjoys all the same benefits same benefits as an opposite-sex couple enjoys. This pretty much sums up why I am annoyed by anyone who tried to defend an opinion like yours.

See, its the content of my opinion that you object to and compare to Red Pepper flakes in the pan ... I thought I expressed myself clearly and without animus. Someone calls me a liar, I object. Someone compares my opinion to one who supports slavery, national socialism, etc., I object. I haven't called anyone names, though I have characterized certain arguments as moronic ... because, you know, they are ...


As to the state sanctioning homosexual relations, that's fine with me (excepting adoption). Just don't call it marriage. As to your shame, bear it with dignity.

Your annoyance is because you have a totalitarian mind-set, seeped in political correctness and cannot really tolerate dissenting opinions. Examine your annoyance!

OK. What's your schedule look like?

WHY homosexual marriage and adoption?
simply because it's in human nature, it's natural.
Think about this a little: no human has ever done anything that's not human.
People sometime say: what he/she did is unhuman.
in reality, it's as human as anything else humans do, or can do.

you reject some forms of discrimination while you approve others, like when you wrote: "This holding honors the institution of marriage and our notion that no civil liberty should be abridged by reason of race or religion".
you forgot that civil liberty should include homosexual marriage and adoption. if it's not included, where is the civil liberty?

Your adoption exception is par for the course, as would be its tenuously justifiable defense should you choose to share it.

Any idiot can become a parent. It takes an intentional act of altruism to be an adoptive parent. To withhold from able and willing gay couples the same rights as heterosexual parents enjoy is morally suspect.

I'll be, 2x6 getting hammered for having his own opinion? I think it's a damn shame and myself think those who have favored gay marriage in this thread seem less tolerant of opposing views than what 2x6 has stated, very well imo.

Now, I can't say I agree with his opinion but I will respect it. If a gay couple wants to be involved in the institution of marriage I say let them do as they wish. As all the people on here that are married know there's nothing easy about keeping a marriage going long term. Sure, there are a lot of great times but it sure as hell isn't a ride in the park 100% of the time.

I say go for it, let gays have the right afforded to them as is any other loving couple. It's my opinion that one does't choose to be gay; they are born as such. To punish a person for how they were born is beyond my comprehension. I'm sure most on this site wouldn't figure for me to have this view but it what I believe.

I also respect 2x6s opinion on gays not being able to adopt. Once again, I disagree but he certainly is entitled to his view without condemnation.

Rick, my take is that 2x6 is entitled to his opinion as we all are. It's the WAY he does it that gets under my skin.

A very brief article stating the divorce rates in America - Link.

Mark, his writing could be seen as a bit abrasive but it doesn't bother me.

Here in California we have grade school text books which indoctrinate children, 1st, 2nd 3rd graders about families with 2 moms or two dads. I don't agree with this and I don't think it is healthy, for the children or society.

We have children in our local school system whose parents refuse to declare their gender. The parents are waiting until the children are old enough so the children will decide their gender. Are we going to have sex change operations for grade schoolers because their parents are totally confused and so politically correct they've descended into moronism?

When I was a kid, neither I nor my peers wanted to think about their parents kissing. Eeeuuw. But now, adopted kids will have to deal with dad kissing dad, schmuck smoking, mom and mom?

I don't think this cultural detour is healthy. You can call it civil rights, but I disagree. Any person, gay or straight, has the right to marry a person of opposite gender. If people of same gender want to live together, enter civil unions, fine! They have that civil right.

Don't bring the institution of marriage down to accommodate the vanity of people who for whatever reason are stuck in a biological dead end and don't reward same sex unions which could never produce children biologically with children by adoption.

Above all, IMHO, do not confuse children with the idea that same sex unions are as wholesome, socially beneficial and as healthy as man/woman unions.

My calendar is open.

Agreed.

I do think that my buddy Bob's reply to 2x6's original opinion (if I recall, it wasn't incendiary) was very feisty, but being a minority who isn't on a level playing field with walkies, and faces discrimination, I can completely relate and understand it.

It really bothers me when someone thinks that gay people shouldn't be able to adopt children. There's absolutely NO sensible argument to support it.

I would venture to bet that having a child through adoption (which is far more honorable than having a child of your own) or other means is extremely important to the majority of gay couples, married or not. Attempting to, or taking away that right, is like taking away elevators for disabled people (just an analogy that I can relate to, which I think is very apropos).

I also think it's the highest form of arrogance when you stick your nose in other people's business. I'm specifically talking about people who are perfectly civil and don't pose a threat to anyone in any shape or form.

Peace, love and equality for all!

Well, I don't think it is anymore honorable than folks that really WANT to have a child. Don't you think that most that adopt, not all, but if they could, would have their own biological children?

I can think of at least a half a dozen couples I know who have tried unsuccessfully to have children. It is a real shame because these people would have made fantastic parents. On the other hand I have seen some real crappy parenting/divorces which leads me to believe that having kids is far too easy for the group that should be thrown back into the gene pool. Life truly isn't fair epecially when children are involved.

There's no disagreement here.

Yep ... Florida Woman Kills Her 4 Children, Self

Stupid crazy.

Oh yeah.

What about the women that want to marry a horse?

I guess in that case, size does matter

Horses?

There was a woman who fell in love with a chimp, a 200 pounder. She dressed the chimp in a dinner jacket, he developed a taste for fine cigars, was partial to Merlots, and liked to drive the lady's car.

One day, the chimp demanded the keys to the car. He had a few too many. The lady called her friend and asked her to come over to help calm the 'man' of the house. Chimp wouldn't have any of that. He bit the friend's hands off, then her face.

Some relationships are just not meant to be!

The Tsarina was partial to ponies.

Who are you to judge? Really!

BTW cam, "Walkies"? really? Is that like Honkies? Is that an oppressor class?

We're really dumpster diving now...

As a person who has been engaging 2x6 in this thread, I feel the condemnation comment is directed at me. I've tried hard not to condemn him for his views. Voicing disagreement and reasons for my disagreement are not condemnation.

That's the thing with the passing on of information. If you do not object to the material or the way it's being taught, you call it education. If you take issue with it, you call it indoctrination. Public school has always been an interesting mix of education and indoctrination. I'm in favor of exposing children to the realities of gay families. It can contribute to a reduced rate of bullying and prejudice, making the lives of gay kids that much less difficult. Statistics show that kids can be downright cruel -- to the point of killing and/or driving others to suicide -- to people they perceive as too unlike them.


I'm touched that you care, but I really think you're projecting your own heebie-jeebies onto the children. Do you think gay parents care any less about keeping physical intimacy away from the eyes of their children? No. If they come from anywhere, negative perceptions will come from outside the home. This goes back to why I think educating children about all aspects of the current human condition in school is a good idea.

Yes popular culture driven by liberal elites mock marriage. Mockery and sarcasm are used as substitutes for reasoning and argument. For example, express concern for the indoctrination of children in grade school with the leftist anti family pro homosexual agenda, and you may hear accusations or snide insinuations that you are not really concerned about the children, but rather merely expressing your heeby jeebies. Resort to mockery, personal attacks, name calling are not argument. Leftists increasingly resort to personal attacks while sharing high fives among themselves.

I think we've seen this tactic at work in this conversation.

Yup. We have.

You use "leftist" as a derisive label. Who's not arguing now?

You mention these "liberal elites" driving popular culture. Do you think television shows would be successful if they didn't provide what people want to see? Sure, I agree there's a lot of steaming piles of excrement on TV that many people love to watch (e.g. just about every "reality" show).

Research has shown -- and much of it has been done very recently since this is a very hot social topic -- that your concern for children of same-sex parents is unwarranted. They fare as well as children of heterosexual parents.

Here are just a couple papers on the subject:

Children Of Same-Sex Parents Deserve The Security Blanket Of The Parentage Presumption

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS Technica...ame-Sex Parents

You can't simply rely on your gut, here.

I just saw this news story about a single father who was falsely accused of raping his own twin daughters by his nanny. Do you think the fact that he is gay was behind the nanny's lies? And to think they could have gotten permanent custody.

http://www.ktla.com/videogallery/6990394...Begnaud-reports

Education and familiarity combat homophobia.

From Breitbart.com

Pacquiao Banned from L.A. Mall for Same-Sex Marriage Opposition

The “tolerant” same-sex marriage left has struck again – this time, at the popular hangout The Grove, in Los Angeles. The owner of The Grove, Rick Caruso, tweeted that iconic boxing great and Philippines Congressman Manny Pacquiao would not be allowed “on the premises” thanks to Pacquiao’s outspoken opposition to same-sex marriage. “Boxer Manny Pacquiao is not welcome @TheGroveLA,” he tweeted. “@TheGroveLA is a gathering place for all Angelenos, not a place for intolerance.” Pacquiao was supposed to do an interview today with “Extra” at The Grove.

What did heretofore-Obama-supporter Pacquiao do to earn the ban? He did an interview with the National Conservative Examiner in which he said, “God’s words first … obey God’s law first before considering the laws of man. God only expects man and woman to be together and to be legally married. It should not be of the same sex, so as to adulterate the altar of matrimony, like in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.” In other words, like the vast majority of religious people of all persuasions around the world, Pacquiao is against same-sex marriage.


That now earns him a ban from a public area in Los Angeles. And make no mistake – while Caruso is the owner of the complex, he relies heavily on public funding in his projects.

The left wants to claim intolerance here, but it is surely the highest form of intolerance not to allow a religious person who openly expresses him or herself onto the premises of an outdoor shopping mall. In fact, The Grove features a kosher hot dog stand frequented by Orthodox Jews, virtually all of whom oppose same-sex marriage. Will Caruso ban them? Are all of those who believe in traditional scriptural interpretation, and who oppose same-sex marriage, no longer welcome at Caruso’s myriad establishments?


Caruso is an emissary of the leftist thought police who say that you don’t deserve the privileges of decent treatment if you "haven't evolved." Pacquiao has done nothing to harm or mistreat gays or lesbians; he actually says he has a gay relative, and that gays and lesbians can’t do anything about their orientation because they were born that way. But that’s not enough – he has to bow to the politically correct same-sex marriage crowd or be barred from the premises.


There is a question as to whether Caruso legally can bar Pacquiao from the premises based on statements Pacquiao has made outside The Grove. In fact, even were Pacquiao to “reasonably exercise” his right to free speech at The Grove, it is likely that the California Supreme Court would uphold his right to do so without being kicked off the premises.


Caruso is in the wrong both morally and legally here. But don’t expect the leftist press to call him out on it. When it comes to bullying, the true bullies are the leftists who maintain that in order to be treated as a normal human being, you must agree with them. And even the best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet can’t avoid their heavy fist

You might be surprised, but I actually think Rick Caruso's decision is idiotic.

I'm against same sex marriage, but I cringe every time I hear homosexuality associated with Sodom and Gomorrah. What happened in Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't homosexuality, according to the bible, it was rape. The inhabitants of the city wanted to have sex with the angels (appearing as men or women), then Lot offered them his daughters instead, if they would leave their visitors alone.

Agreed, Cat--on the Sodom and Gomorrah thing.

Lot wasn't a very good father, was he?

But an excellent host!

He had a lot of problems. Later, when he was drunk, he had sex with both of his daughters. It was the daughters idea to continue the bloodline this way.

The moral of the story of Lot, though, is how city life, living amongst the ungodly, influences a person toward evil tendencies.

Hmm... I know a number of godly people who have severely compromised moral compasses.

FredK is unable to distinguish between hypocrites and Godly people.

I think what lies underneath this entire conversation is the progressive idea of moral relativism. Who are you to say that one culture is better than another? That one set of values is morally superior to another?

What emerges as the central axiom of this politically correct amoral creed is that thou shall not make moral distinctions! What is moral is that which is legal. What is immoral is that which is illegal, or hate speech which is certainly immoral. Hate speech may be defined, in part, as speech which makes moral distinctions which reflect poorly on any democratic constituency.

Therefore, it is important to teach our children that The Original American people who were gay and environmentally at peace with Mother Gaia, the World Goddess, lived in perfect harmony until their perfect culture was destroyed by the evil rapist heterosexual white Christian colonialists who were financed by the evil Jews.

I think I saw that placard at Occupy Wall Street. Maybe it was FredK who was holding the sign, I don't know for sure.

While pmbuko is fairly confident that future generations will look back upon our time with shame at those unevolved among us who believe that marriage should be reserved for men and women, I am fairly certain that the best among the future generations will look back and realize that a sexually immature sector of society who elevated that which feels good above all else, attempted to destroy the central institution of society, the family, and marriage between men and women, so they could justify their sexual libertinage, their desire to shtupp anything that moves, whatever the age, whatever the gender and ultimately, whatever the species, because after all, those people were ultimately unable to draw moral distinctions.

The Core distinctions? right or wrong. good or evil. productive or destructive. But hey, some think making such distinctions, well, that's hate speech.

Peace on!

That's certainly one way of interpreting it, but I don't see it that way at all and I don't think a close reading of the text supports it. After all, Lot lived among them and considered himself part of the community. (He calls the Sodomites brothers in Genesis 19:6-8.)

The way I read it, the story is more about God's ability and willingness to rescue the righteous from bad situations -- in particular here, getting mixed up with a bad crowd.

I found a very detailed interpretation of this here.

Now the mask is off and the truth behind your beliefs is revealed. You seem to think it's all about carnal pleasure, don't you. You're reducing human beings to libido incarnate. These are human beings you're talking about. Whole human beings. With all the same hopes, dreams, and desires as the rest of us. Is it right to use laws to discriminate based on individuals' innate qualities (e.g. gender, race, or sexual orientation)?

Also, your characterization that more gay people want to "shtupp anything that moves" than straight people do is simply confirmation bias. You're more likely to notice a flamboyant homosexual all over his date than you are to notice a straight guy all over his because you find it revolting and it's more likely to catch your eye.

Incidentally, the dating website okcupid pulled some interesting statistics from their 3.2 million user database and posted the results here a couple years ago. Pay particular attention to the first graph detailing the number of sexual partners reported by straight vs gay people. It may help you realize that your characterization of homosexuals is unfair.

Actually, I wasn't talking about just gay people. I think the progressive attack on morality is rooted in an adolescent resentment of societal restrictions on sexual behavior.

The gay community has suffered greatly from its bath-house culture, but that is not significantly different from the behavior of swappers, pedophiles, drooling adolescent males, and all those who attack society for those values and mores which would limit the unrestrained expression of human sexuality.

If gays now seek to mainstream their behavior by seeking to expand the definition of marriage to include homosexual marriage, they have not done the institution any favors in my opinion.

Sorry if you didn't understand that or if I did not make it sufficiently clear.

I appreciate the clarification. I don't see swappers, pedophiles, or drooling adolescent males trying to get any laws changed, though. Gays simply want to be recognized as fully human and be granted the same rights as other "mainstream" humans are granted.

They have all the civil rights any person has. They are free to marry ... a human of the opposite gender.

Not everyone decides to marry.

I'll bet your parents wished they could get back all the money they spent for those Dale Carnegie courses you went to.

Pretty much my view on the matter:

The kid has a point.

Looks like just another tax.

Huh?

I always took it as just another excuse to party.

Except that's vastly oversimplifying. It's also used to provide for power of attorney, hospital visitation rights, insurance purposes, tax purposes... it's not just a symbol.

The word marriage is just a symbol. Apparently it means different things to different folks. Look personally I'm not against gay marriage but I am against the government dictating what marriage is... for hetero or homosexual couples.

It looks the traffic on BOTH sides of the highway is moving away from the viewer. Is that another Canadian highway surprise?

Right now there is only one direction. West to Albert for jobs. Unless of course you are already west of Alberta, in which case you are driving east for a job or staying put to grow weed in British Columbia.

And be a ski bum or mountain biker. That's what I wanted to do. Living in a Volkswagen van nonetheless.

Speaking of Mountain Bikes, here's the bike I had (same colour, Marzocchi shocks and everything (minus the aftermarket Oakley sticker). At $1500 bucks the Kona AA wasn't cheap, but it was one amazing bike.

Canada, eh?

Brings to mind this song from my new favorite band, Sloan (Hat tip to pmbuko). Check out 1:10.

Heck, watch the whole dang thing. This is my new Rx to everyone. It'll brighten your day or else I'll refund your co-pay.

Sloan is a great band, J.P. Sadly I don't really listen to them because I don't have but one song.

Dude, what's up with your sig?

Cam's a happy guy.

Yup. Very happy .

Boy, that's sad. Cam's "happy." Can't we do something to help him? An intervention? Something?

Thinking people should never permit "happy." Content, serene, presently pleased, momentarily merry, but not "happy."

Cam's a thinker, for sure. We gotta fix this for him, before it leads to "bliss." JP, suggestions?

"Yup. Very happy," is a cry for help. Don't let it fall on far too discriminating ears.

silence happy = death

Cool bike Cam.
I'm afraid I'm just a hybrid guy now. Getting old and creaky I guess.

THE BLACK HOLE IN ROCK and ROLL

I’ve been thinking about this since I was a teenager, but I’ve never put it on paper before, or tried to think it through with some (loose, very loose) historical consideration.

The very first Rock and Roll thing to catch my attention (and I do mean “thing”) was Richard Penniman, a/k/a Little Richard. I was four. From then on, I always thought of him as the King of Rock ‘n’ Roll, not Elvis.

As I got a little older, I noticed that Elvis (and lots of others) never had their names in the tiny print in the parentheses, right under the song title on the record label. Once I learned that those names were the writers of the songs, and that Elvis didn’t, couldn’t do that, everyone’s “proper places” in the Rock and Roll firmament began to become both clearer and more solid to me.

I didn’t know it at the time, but I was relegating Elvis to “song stylist,” which is what he has been to me since I’ve been an adult. Something in me did know that Rock and Roll was supposed to be black, like “those real guys,” Fats Domino, Little Richard and Chuck Berry; that’s where the real creation of R & R was happening. I had to allow for Jerry Lee Lewis, just because, as a 1950’s wildman, he personified the Rock and Roll attitude. I didn’t care what color he was or from what planet he came. He was, to me, the equal of Little Richard. They could both play piano while jumping around on their feet. No one had ever accompanied their music with that much commotion.

The first Rock and Roll dance I ever learned was the twist—Chubby Checker. Every “first” for me in Rock and Roll was introduced by an African-American male.

Well, we all know that stopped---dead---cold. Vocal music by black artists was popular simultaneously; The Platters, The Bluenotes, lots of them were around at the time. For some reason, that music survived and morphed (not a big stretch at all) into the sounds of Motown, Philly and a few places in the Deep South. By the end of 1963, African-Americans had pretty much abandoned Rock and Roll.

Just four years later, he's not only a black guy with an electric guitar, but he is a super rocker, hell bent on pushing it to whatever limits the current electrical grids and fire marshals would allow. Wasn’t that supposed to be the herald reading: “Return, brothers, return!” Guess not. Of course, being the reigning guitar god doesn’t go very far when you and “it” are all over in less than 4 years. And Sly! It may have had lots of soul and mountains of funk, but it was still R & R. Poor Sly, poor us. Maybe he set such a bad example of how to enjoy your R & R fame, that he didn’t amass any followers. It’s tough to think that Jimi Hendrix’s biggest influence was on………… Robin Trower. Too bad we never were offered a vote before Jimi bought the farm.

So for another bunch of years, we had Billy and the Beatles, Dallas and CSN, Buddy Miles here and there after his Electric Flag days were over, and several other notable black musicians in all-white bands.

Then we have a screen blip in The Busboys. Tons of fun. No one paid any attention. What! They can’t play rock and roll! They’re black!

Flash to the eighties and we have In Living Color. Finally, a real band with a real R & R singer who’s not an R & B moonlighter, and a guitarist worthy of at least the attention he got, if not more. That created a good-sized splash, but it didn’t last long. (They reformed several years ago and had an album that was pretty unremarkable.)

From the ‘90’s through to the present, we have King’s X from Houston. Their bass/singer/writer (it’s a 3 piece) is African-American. I’ve never met another person who has ever heard of them. I have everything by them. Is it all very good? No, not all, but it’s a different sounding Rock and Roll because of a really good black male voice at the helm.

The sad part is that, after African-Americans walked away from it, they didn't care what the hell we did with it. And before we could realize what we'd been handed, we let Britain have at it, and we’ve been riding shotgun ever since. Even though it was uncool, for decades, for a black kid to like Rock and Roll, it’s not like lots of kids don’t persist with their passions despite a lack of peer approval, so that should not have made any real difference.

I was listening last night to The Faces, Long Player, and The Stones, Let it Bleed. I had to have known when these were new that it was all directly lifted from delta blues. Maybe we all knew, quite clearly, but didn’t care because, in its feeble attempt to honor something older and truer, it sounded new so we liked it. In the history of the world, how many times has all or part of a culture changed, because of a poor rendition, and/or a lack of understanding of the recent past?

I'm sure I've left out some notable R & R contributors of the last 50 years---Lennie Kravitz for one (well, he's Halfrican-American). Darius Rucker? Go ahead, I dare you!! Darius Rucker?!!!


OK. Now I totally see why I have never written this before--it doesn't have an ending. Shit!

What elvis did is bring rock & roll into the American mainstream. This was a time when people like Little Richard Chuck Berry and Fats Domino were not getting airplay on mainstream (ie: white) radio.

Elvis opened the door and they followed while leading. The Stones, Led Zeppilin and others from that era knew and will tell you where their music came from.

It was/is white America that had no clue.


They moved on while the rest of North America shifted to commecial rock. Hmm... brings whole new meaning to 'Out Of Africa'.

Yes, of course. You make my points, but if you wanna feel like you're disagreeing with me, OK then.

White audiences left R & R, too, in droves. I had so many friends who were strictly Motown people. I never understood how they could survive on that. Once the politicization of folk made it into R & R, everything got more interesting. R & B was still about moon, June, spoon.

So, are you saying that the R & R of Little Richard and Fats Domino became "Motown" and African-Amercains felt through with R & R? Is it like when we white people used the word "def" too much, so they had it killed off.

It's hard to believe that not any black kids have bands. I mean, apparently they don't, but it's still hard to believe. Latino kids do, Asian-America kids do. Hell, there are even Native-American bands. I'm not talking hip-hop/rap. For sure, that is the dominant musical force for most young people, regardless of ethnicity. I'm just surprised that no one has tried to take it back, well, no one since Living Color. And I'm surprised that they didn't engender a larger interest, even just in New York.

That's exactly the point. They have moved on. Like it or not Rock 'n Roll (as seen from our perspective) is in its sunset years. Or maybe its morphing, I dunnow.

It seems to me that music is getting harder to categorize. I think that is a good thing. Variety is the spice of life.

You do still see lots of black blues bands. From my perspective lots of them are still playing rock, just more directly blues influenced.

At no point in my tome, Fred, do I recall using the terms "African-Canadian, or "African-North American."

Can I please get someone to weigh in on this who has never received medical attention via national healthcare or thought that tuxedoes were blue?

Fred, as seen from OUR perspective, everything is in it's sunset years!

Edit: Would that make everything upon which we gaze appear to be orange..... and very negative, too!

So Negative Orange is how one views life after 55?

I don't know, but I bet CV has a can of prunes saved in the pantry to prove it.

Elvis .

Bobby knows my sentiments regarding him.

It's so funny to see the name, "Bobby" when someone is addressing me. It brings me back to my youth. No one who called me that is still alive.

Hey, I told them not to beforehand, so they were warned.

Well you could, except they're all working weekends now to pay those big honkin medical bills.

Whats wrong with blue tuxedoes and frilly shirts?

One for Bob. Enjoy your Rock n Roll twilight and keep the faith brother.

Now you've gone and done it. You're making me want to rewatch the movie "The Jerk".

COLD TURKEY

The Vatican Dumpster will reveal no more of its secrets; no more intrigues, private deals, criminal cover-ups, backroom politics, no assassination plots. The butler must leave the country---now!

Thanks to all have rummaged around in here with us. It’s been a bit of everything; informative, surprising, revealing, maddening, sad, funny, fun, no fun at all, head-scratching and, at times, “WTF” and “Oh, no he di’n’t!”

We are sorry for any inconveniences this closure may cause.

Please visit our website to locate another dumpster near you.

The Huuuuumaniteeeeeee!

Bob, I enjoy and appreciate your offerings (burnt though they may be) and wish you would consider dropping in periodically to continue sharing your wit with us.

He's gone.

For those of you who have never met him, he is one of the kindest, caring and decent human beings I have ever had the pleasure of their acquaintance or friendship.

A persons true qualities can be veiled by the avatar of the internet.

Farewell, dear friend.

Bob, it was nice to have met you at the bash. Sorry to see you go.

Gonna miss you, Bob. Please let this be a stunt, like Andy Kaufman or Richard Nixon.

Well, that's too bad. Heaven just got a little smaller for Mojo.

See! I told you all that one day you'd wake up and there'd be no GOD! Ha!

Because we need an excuse for a virtual wake. Everybody have a slug or three of their favourite spirit.

All I have is tequila, cheers!

Watch out for the worm!

If you get a worm(which is moth larva) that means lower grade Agave leaves. You don't want the worm.