New Line Follows Warner Bros. and Goes Blu
>> From blu-ray.com:
Following Warner's lead, sister company New Line has confirmed that it will support Blu-ray Disc high def releases exclusively. New Line has previously delayed their day-and-date new releases on HD DVD due to the format's lack of region coding, effectively making titles such as Shoot 'em Up, Hairspray, and Rush Hour 3 exclusive to Blu-ray.
And to think that just in the last 2-3 months things went from high praise for the HD-DVD format and to how Blu-Ray was going to fail, to a complete flip flop for some people. This thing is far from over.
All that this crap does is drag this thing out longer. Consumers are confused as heck about the two formats, and by Sony making deals with more studios to go exclusively Blu-Ray isn't going to help. Until everyone goes one way, the other way, or back to both ways, this will go on for a while. Besides, all of the Blu-Ray backers need HD-DVD to "hang on a little longer" to help drive Blu-Ray players down.
If anything, this just ticks me off more about Blu-Ray. They (mainly Sony) never had the consumer in mind from day 1, and so they just keep throwing money around to force their technology on people, and we, the consumer, let them... Makes me mad! (in case you couldn't tell...)
Why does New Line (or anyone, really) need region coding so badly? Is it really that much of an issue?
I'm with Nick on this, it really irks me that as recent as a week ago Warner has been denying all rumors of going exclusively Blu-ray, letting consumers think that HD DVD would have a full lineup of movies, and doing this after the holidays when many people just bought or received HD DVD players. That alone will make me pause when looking to buy anything Warner Bros. puts out.
doing this after the holidays when many people just bought or received HD DVD players.
Yes, that's really disrespectful of their customers.
Unfortunately for a lot of companies, it's not about respecting customers. It's all about how can I generate the greatest profits.
most of warner's comments were "At the present time we plan on continuing to realease on both formats"... or something along those lines. They didn't tell you want their plan was in 5 minutes!
doing this after the holidays when many people just bought or received HD DVD players.
Yes, that's really disrespectful of their customers.
that's the whole point of doing it now..they don't really care about the consumers. big big business rarely does. By announcing this now MOST people that got HD DVD are still within the 30 days of most companies return policies. make a big announce that you've dropped one format, people panic (see AVS forum if you want to see panic and trampling) they all return their HD DVD players and buy a bluray because they've seen the hi Def they, don't care if they have to pay $500 because they NEED their hi def and don't want to keep the HD DVD player that will apparently explode in May sending hi def shrapnel all over their home.
Unfortunately for a lot of companies, it's not about respecting customers. It's all about how can I generate the greatest profits.
My thoughts exactly!
Unfortunately for a lot of companies, it's not about respecting customers. It's all about how can I generate the greatest profits.
But you have to consider this: every stock owner cheers when the prices go up. It's been my experience that most people feel that big business are evil and only care about profits *SO* long as they don't own the stock. It's easy to beat up big businesses. But big businesses tend to employ a lot of people. I tend to think like the ex Johnson and Johnson CEO. "If I take care of my customers and my employees, stock owners will be taken care of automatically"
But Toshiba is also "big business" however, they DID try to keep customers in mind...
doing this after the holidays when many people just bought or received HD DVD players.
Yes, that's really disrespectful of their customers.
that's business
Disrespect does not mean business, it means disrespect. Repeat business is the cornerstone of long term viability and maximum profits. Disrespect is BAD business.
The best way to let them know you don't like how they're treating you is to not buy any blu-ray discs from them.
Most consumers have short memories and their indignation wears off as soon as a title they "must have" is released.
And that's exactly why companies do this time and again. Consumers have no backbone.
I wonder if online downloads/access will make all these discussions/format wars moot in a few years...
I think it will be more than a few years. There are still going to be way too many people without fast enough internet connections or internet connections altogether for a long time. Maybe they could pull it off in Japan in a few years, but North America? I don't see how.
I like to collect some things, and I'll be disappointed if physical media dies off. And it's so nice to be able to loan people movies. Also, if the whole industry can't agree on one form of physical media, how are they going to agree on one download service? I foresee a bigger mess with downloads than could ever take place in a war like that between HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc.
All I have to say is that if LOTR doesn't come out before May 2008 in HD DVD, I am going to be one pissed off HD DVD owner.
I think you'll have to be prepared to be pissed off.
We may be on the verge on the next of steps in media over internet (downloads, etc.) but I do not believe physical media is going away anytime too soon.
Music has been able to be downloaded for quite a number of years, but we still have CDs.
In addition the only people probably more paranoid about piracy than the recording labels are the studios.
All I have to say is that if LOTR doesn't come out before May 2008 in HD DVD, I am going to be one pissed off HD DVD owner.
No kidding! I'm with you there!
Hmm just thinking about HD over the Internet. 20 to 50 GB per movie, or something like that.
At a High Speed Internet service of a relatively speedy 10 Mbps it would take nearly 8 hours to download a 30 GB movie.
If you had a lesser service at 2Mbps, it would take over 38 hours to download.
Of course, they can always use some sort of compression but then it will very likely compromises quality.
Of course home internet services are getting faster so maybe someday but not many are ready for such a service yet.
Most HD movies (just the movie) are running closer to the 20GB side of that spectrum than the 50GB side. That is why most Blu-Ray movies are only single layer right now.
Downloading HD movies would be painful for a while. I guess that you could always set up a queue system (like NetFlix uses for actual discs) and then with a set-top unit with a hard drive have it download content to the box for the currently available movies from your queue, plus the next 1 or 2 movies but have them "locked" until the first movies in the queue are deleted.
Oh wait, that IS what NetFlix is planning for later this year with LG. Of course, that was when LG announced that they would would add this feature to their next Super-Blue player so it would do Blu-Ray, HD-DVD AND NetFlix downloads. NetFlix said that they would increase the number of movies available for download and work "towards" HD movie downloads.
Xbox live has an HD rental service that allows you to download HD movies to rent. They are like 6 bucks though.
These movies are around 4-6 gigs. I Think they compress the heck out of the audio and maybe only offer 2 channel sound to compress the movies to 6gigs. Also the movies are all in 720p.
I downloaded a couple of them before I had my axioms so I can not comment on the sound. The video looked great though.
I think that in the meantime a 'water downed' online HD service like xbox live has is a solution for some people; but to allow lossless 5.1 sound plus all of the extra content via download is not practicle due to file size.
What ever HD media wins the 'war' (looks like it won't be HD DVD) will probably be around for at least a little while
Disrespect does not mean business, it means disrespect. Repeat business is the cornerstone of long term viability and maximum profits. Disrespect is BAD business.
my point is that nice guys finish last and these companies don't give a rats ass about you. You're delusional if you think the notion of how this would affect their customer base even entered into their feeble minds for one iota of a second. It's the bottom line, it's capitalism.
We tried the current Netflix streaming service. Nice idea, but over my 768 DSL connection, the video quality was not acceptable. The streaming part was fine, but he resolution wasn't.
Likewise, DirecTV is offering "On Demand" content now but the download speeds are ridiculously slow.
I'm kind of with Murph and Nick; I think that - right now - there STILL isn't enough bandwidth to deliver the optimum audio and video resolution on a timely basis. Amazing. So, short of a breakthrough in compression or proliferation of higher bandwidth connections, we are where we are.
To some extent, I think that web video content delivery mirrors the iPod / MP3 craze. There are lots of consumers that will be seduced by ease of use, and there will still be a segment of the population that values fidelity above availability. For now, only physical media can deliver the kind of fidelity that satisfies most of us on this forum.
Sneakernet lives.
Side note: Paramount offical says today that it has "no intentions to stop supporting HD-DVD".... So the remaining "big players" for HD-DVD are Toshiba, Paramount (and its sub-studios), Microsoft, and Intel... From a technology point of view, there are some STRONG members there, but without movies?????
don't know about you all in the U.S (although i've heard rumours with regards to teared internet) well we got that in Canada (rogers) they aren't enforcing going over caps yet (i'm at 100gigs cap) but if they do start that it will cripple the whole concept of HD download...3 movies downloaded plus a couple of emails checked and you're over your limit!
What's all this crazy talk I hear about downloading movies over the internet ?
On my dial-up line a 20GB movie would take about 13 weeks.
I for one will just sit on the sidelines until this runs it's course. It's ashame with all the great gear we invest in that we can't enjoy "the best" disc quality with such uncertainty, but until they/the buying public figures it out, I'll just be content with the picture quality that made my jaw drop just a few short years ago
Found this at xboxscene.com:
HD DVD Not Dead yet: Lower Prices, New Marketing, Strong Q4 Sales
>> From the press release:
Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. ("Toshiba") today announced that it is stepping up its successful marketing campaign for HD DVD as it experienced record-breaking unit sales in the fourth quarter of 2007. Major initiatives, including joint advertising campaigns with studios and extended pricing strategies will begin in mid- January and are designed to spotlight the superior benefits of HD DVD as well as the benefits HD DVD brings to a consumer's current DVD library by upconverting standard DVDs via the HDMI(TM) output to near high definition picture quality.
As Toshiba achieved the #1 sales volume in the next generation DVD category with an approximately 50 percent market share in 2007, HD DVD is proven to be the format of choice for consumers. Coupled with an 80 percent plus market share of all next generation DVD equipped notebooks for the 4th quarter 2007, the HD DVD format has already paved the way to a high definition digital AV solution by eliminating the boundaries between the consumer's living room and on the go.
HD DVD not only creates the ultimate high definition entertainment experience, leveraging all of the promise of the format such as superior audio/video performance, Web-enabled network capabilities and advanced interactive features - it also has a high-level of compatibility with DVD. With DVD upconversion via the HDMI output, HD DVD players instantly make a movie lover's existing DVD library look better than ever.
New Marketing Strategy for Mass Market Adoption
Taking the holiday season sales based on promotional prices into full consideration, these new manufacturer's suggested retail prices (MSRP) are designed to meet the potential demand for HD DVD players in the U.S. market. Effective on January 13, 2008 the MSRP of the entry-model HD-A3 will be $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99.
Extended Advertising Campaign
Toshiba plans to execute an extended advertising campaign that will further enhance consumer awareness of the benefits of HD DVD and drive sales to retail among potential consumers. Advertising strategies will include television, print and online media channels. Toshiba will also work with its dealers and studio partners on joint marketing and promotional initiatives to promote HD DVD. Current promotions include "The Perfect HD Offer" - a mail-in offer allowing consumers to select five HD DVD titles for free from a selection of 15 with the purchase of any Toshiba HD DVD player.
Good to see HD DVD is not going down without a fight. They've suffered a blow, but I don't think this is near over.
Yes, let Lord Voldemort know that we are not done yet!
I kind of think it is too little to late.... hopefully not, but I dont think HD DVD could win the war with 50 dollar players and 10 dollar movies at this point.. not without more studio support
I think it is still up to us. If enough consumers are willing to jump at the low prices, HD DVD could get some studio support back. Or Warner Bro might even decide to change their tune, since they really left themselves a loophole until May of this year.
Maybe I'm just overly optimistic because I want to see HD DVD win.
I thnk Sony is preaching better DRM to sway the studios, after all they're specs are not set yet, so anything is possible for them. Consumers be damned.
I heard this was also coming with lower software prices, which, if true, unfortunately won't be swaying studios to switch back. If they can continue gouging consumers at a higher price point, they will.
I think they are just trying to empty there stock of players
I hope I'm wrong but I also think that Toshiba is trying to unload their stock.
It has also been rumored that Toshiba (and the rest of the HD-DVD camp) is just setting themselves up for Sony to "pay them off" to stop making HD-DVD. If they can prove that they are still a viable option, then Sony would have to pay more to get them to stop. If they roll over and die by themselves, then Sony doesn't have to pay anything, or very little anyway.
Not my thoughts, just some "analyst's" comments I read yesterday.
Corpotate Greed = Consumer gets screwed
It has also been rumored that Toshiba (and the rest of the HD-DVD camp) is just setting themselves up for Sony to "pay them off" to stop making HD-DVD.
Buying out your competition just seems wrong.
It has also been rumored that Toshiba (and the rest of the HD-DVD camp) is just setting themselves up for Sony to "pay them off" to stop making HD-DVD.
Buying out your competition just seems wrong.
The 'No Compete' clause always had me scratching my head, and it happens probably 90% of the time.
A little more bad news for HD-DVD.
Link
A little more bad news for HD-DVD.
Link It is funny that they say that the numbers went from 2:1 sales (about 66%) to 85% of sales for the week were Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray had 3:10 to Yuma come out that week which is supposed to be a really great movie (I've got it at home from NetFlix but haven't watched it yet) and is the best release for Blu-Ray ever according to sales numbers.
No significant release that week for HD-DVD, so obviously sales would be higher for Blu-Ray for that week. HD-DVD also has 27 releases for January 2008, and Blu-Ray has 26, so the content coming out is about the same in numbers. HD-DVD has more "documentaries" and such though and less movies this month than Blu-Ray.
I'm not blind to what is going on but I hate propagandist spins put on things. That is like saying "Company A made 3 times more widgets in the first full week of 2008 than Company B did." When in actuality, Company B is shut down the first full week in January. Obviously Company A would make more widgets.
I find it highly unlikely that the announcement made by Warner had any impact on the bulk of the movie buying customer base out in the world. Most people who aren't addicts like us, didn't even know about it, let alone care about it. They go on with their days not knowing of such changes without any concern.
So this isn't really any "new news", just a different regurgitation of what has already been said, but with a different negative spin on it. Nothing against jakewash, just afterdawn...
[snip]
I find it highly unlikely that the announcement made by Warner had any impact on the bulk of the movie buying customer base out in the world. Most people who aren't addicts like us, didn't even know about it, let alone care about it. They go on with their days not knowing of such changes without any concern.
So this isn't really any "new news", just a different regurgitation of what has already been said, but with a different negative spin on it. Nothing against jakewash, just afterdawn...
Or it could be the other way around. Most people don't know a Bluray from HD DVD from DVD. But what they *heard/read* in the last two weeks or so is that "Bluray won"
Doesn't matter if it's true or not, that is what is being seen all across the headlines. So it's conceivable that people went and bought more Blurays. At work, I know of one person that went and bought a Bluray player because "I heard they won, so I pulled the trigger"
For the consumer, having one declared winner is probably better. I believe in competition, but not at the risk of slowing down the progress to HD content. Either format is fine by me in terms of quality (I own both format players.) At this point, it comes down who has a better marketing/maneuvering/dealmaking, and from the looks of it, Bluray did that better.
Hell, even Bill Gates was hedging in a recent interview.
3:10 to Yuma is indeed good. Highly recommended.
Hansung, I still disagree. 3:10 to Yuma is the largest selling Blu-Ray disc EVER, so it wouldn't matter what week it came out, as long as it was a week with no significant HD-DVD release, then obviously the numbers would have tilted quite a bit towards Blu-Ray. I would think that the people that did what your friend did and pulled the trigger on Blu-Ray because they heard that it "won" would be a very small fraction of that additional 15%.
Again, things are looking bleak for HD-DVD, I know that, I am just pointing out how these numbers, which as I stated above are almost exclusively due to 3:10 to Yuma sales, are slanted, skewed, and otherwise turned into the same type of propaganda that Sony has used from the start knowing that most consumers don't research the truth behind the statistics and put blind faith into what they read online or in print. Holy crap that was one long run-on sentence...
Again, things are looking bleak for HD-DVD, I know that, I am just pointing out how these numbers, which as I stated above are almost exclusively due to 3:10 to Yuma sales, are slanted, skewed, and otherwise turned into the same type of propaganda that Sony has used from the start knowing that most consumers don't research the truth behind the statistics and put blind faith into what they read online or in print. Holy crap that was one long run-on sentence...
Isn't that Sony's thing great marketing and propaganda. I think they learned a lesson from Betamax.
I wonder how much of a decision maker it is for some when looking for an HD player that you can only find Toshiba with HD-DVD, yet there are a number of other manufacturers making BR machines. I think this might sway some people too. You have a choice for BR, Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, Denon(soon) etc. Unless you buy a universal for huge dollars you are stuck with Toshiba for HD-DVD. It looks to me like the electronics industry is backing BR more as well.
Hey all of you Blu-Ray lovers, and HD-DVD haters! I just wanted to say "Thank you" for keeping this conversation civilized. I made the mistake of talking about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on another forum not even related to home theater, and the site admin believes that Sony walks on water, and everything on "news" sites are 100% accurate with no spin. Sony HAD to win this. They lost WAY too much money already, and went from #1 to #3 (or if you count the DS #4) in hardware sales. That is a HUGE hit for them too. It got to a point where they had lost SO much money already, that they just had to throw more at it and try to finish off HD-DVD.
Anyway, on this other site, most people proved my points that the general consumer is still happy with DVD and does know anything, or care anything about HD movies on disc, but their site admin/owner started throwing insults, and accused me of being from AVS!!!! Of all of the nerve! I haven't been active on AVS for years. I told him, privately, that exact fact and let him know that it is a few bad apples (OK, quite a few, but compared to the number of users over there) that spoil it for everyone, and that is exactly what he has now done to his own site.
I then posted a nice farewell note to everyone else and thanked them for the help that they had provided and didn't get into the details much more than a couple of "personality conflicts"....
So anyway, I am just happy that we don't have to do that here. We can all disagree, and yet keep the conversations civil and adult.
So again, all you evil Blu-Ray lovers, thank you!
(Joking about the evil part by the way.)
We can all disagree, and yet keep the conversations civil and adult.
Now just wait a minute, you festering pus bag! Just where do you get off calling us all nice and adult?! You poopyhead booger eater!
Was that "Keyboard Tourette Syndrome"?
HA! Exactly. Any insults are done in a joking fashion... I .... think.... Or MYBE NOT YOU VILE DISGUSTING AMEOBA! YEAH, YOU! THE SINGLE CELLED ORGANISM WITH NO BRAIN!
Ah, so that's why your mood indicator is red today. Those little red mood indicators are scary!
Universal and Paramount are sticking to their guns with HDDVD, they are coming out with some good movies and this thing is far from over, I'll continue to buy HDDVD titles as long as they continue to produce them.
I'll also buy Blu-Ray titles that are keepers, even though the thought of supporting Sony makes me gag, at my age I'm not going to miss out on my enjoyment because of corporate greed.
medic8r, I've been sporting the red mad face for a couple of weeks now. Imagine why.... I did remove my Dr Evil picture from my sig, so I'm getting back to normal...
Oh, here was the Dr. Evil pic just for fun:
HomeDad, I'll have to check out what is coming out in HD-DVD still. I just wish that LOTR would come out before New Line switches in May/June...
Maybe that will be their final HD-DVD release, LOTR trilogy in both BR and HD-DVD, we can always dream.
Maybe that will be their final HD-DVD release, LOTR trilogy in both BR and HD-DVD, we can always dream.
I was pysched to see that one of my all time favorites "Princess Bride" is coming out in Bluray. I rarely buy movies (except for kid movies since they watch it 10 times a day for two months!) but Bluray and HD made me buy a few movies. Transformers on HD, Live Free or Die Hard on Bluray. The 12 free movies I got 5 from HD and 7 from Bluray didn't hurt either!
I bought the special edition Princess Bride DVD just for the Fezzik T-shirt.
NPD: Sky Isn't Falling for HD-DVD, Blu-ray Isn't Champ Yet
>> From dailygame.net:
Sales data for HD-DVD and Blu-ray players and movies has been misconstrued lately by various outlets, with reports implying that HD-DVD sales have fallen at an amazing pace while Blu-ray sales have blasted through the roof.
The NPD Group attempted to quiet the storm of online scuttlebutt with the following statement:
"The facts are that during the week that is being singled out, both Blu-ray disc players and software were being given away for free with the purchase of 1080p TVs. It is also important to note that the instant rebate promotions that had previously netted Toshiba's players' MSRPs to $199 and $249 had actually ended on Jan. 5th -- causing an increase in HD DVD's MSRP back to $299 and $399 during that same week. Since Toshiba's retail price move on Jan. 13th to $149 / $199 -- Toshiba is seeing very positive sales trends at retail. This reinforces the fact that price is a significant driver of sales."
"Toshiba's HD DVD players represent a significant value to the consumer and the marketing campaign that just began is proving effective."
FYI
Xbox 360 HD DVD Addon Officially Drops to 130usd
>> From gamerscoreblog.com (FYI: MS owned blog):
We're happy to announce that we're lowering the price of the popular Xbox 360 HD DVD player from $179 to $129 (estimated retail price) in the U.S. and Canada, effective immediately.
hmmm.. are they clearing out stock?
Well, Netflix just went Blu-ray only
http://netflix.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=265I really thought this was going to last another few years. At this point, I don't think it'll last months.
As an HD DVD supporter, I really think this is the end for Toshiba. I have about 6 HD DVDs that I own so I am not that far into it (maybe $400 altogether).
I do want High Def, but i'll be waiting for the blu-ray 2.0 profile players.
When NetFlix starts selling off their HD-DVD stock, I may pick up a few titles, of course, since HD-DVD rentals was the primary reason for me signing up for NetFlix, I may not be a member by that time (end of 2008)....
At this point, my HD-DVD player cost me $16 since I got in at $98 (plus tax) and sold off 4 of my 5 free movies. I have that one free movie still, and a few others that I picked up on the cheap. I really like my player for the upconversion, even though I had a good upconverting DVD player before, so I really don't feel like I am out much. What will really stink is when Blu-Ray prices come down and I am ready to go that route and Sony will probably force manufacturers to drop any HD-DVD compatability and I will be sitting with 2 players at home.