Hey, Emotiva actually brought product (Ultra subs) to market.

Based on the page, features, manual, etc. - this all looks completely ordinary to me.

Amp, driver, sealed box. No esoteric R&D there.

Thanks, Tom. I briefly looked at their site and saw the specs on their large floorstander speakers. Wow - 45 Hz - 20,000 Hz +/- 2dbs. My mini-monitors with a 6 inch woofer go lower than that!

Typical Axiom forum fanboyism making fun of what you don’t know.

Well I can tell you that early reviews are saying that compared to the QS8 these Emo subs are in an entirely different class, really.

But only when used as center channels.

Well, at least Audioholics will bless them as "subwoofer of the year"

When the FedEx Ground guy who delivers to my work showed up, I noticed he had an Emotiva UPA-5 to deliver. The only home theater stuff in his truck I've noticed before has been my Axiom stuff. Oh, yeah, of which I should have two subwoofers tomorrow.

Whoo hoo! That's good news, CV!

Very good news.

Yeah, I'm definitely excited to have it all working 100%. I think I'll watch a movie with the subwoofer running a bit hot to celebrate. I usually just leave it at the calibrated level, but I think I need to really feel... Toy Story 2? I still have several Blu-rays to watch, but that's one of them, and I'm sure it would be a good one for bass.

Try the movie 9 Charles, it will give those subs a serious work out.

Ah congrats CV, I wish you all the best with your twin 800's. Say, you don't by any chance know the route that FedEx truck will be taking on it's way to your house, do you? Just curious, that's all...


(runs off, throws ski mask on, gets together diagram of FedEx delivery truck rear axle to figure out a way to disable it long enough to make off with any pertinent cargo said truck will be carrying..... all the while devilishly laughing, Muhuhahahahahahaha hahaha ha hahahahaha ah ha ha ha)

QTY *TWO* EP800's? Oh my!

Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude, but have any of you read this ?

I've been to 2 circus's, 3 county fairs and a mid air buzzard f**k...and I ain't never read anything like that!

Their “First Looks” are almost always fluff just based on reported features/specs. It will be interesting if in their full review the post measurement which they usually do. They gave a stellar review to Emo’s speaker rollout but then no one else reviewed them for a year and a half and then basically said that their good for the money but nothing really special.

Thanks for post that I hadn’t seen it.

Ya but then I read this.....

"Lastly, there is an On/Auto/Off switch."

OMG, OMG, OMG, It turns not only "on" but also "off". I have to have one!!!!!

It's so interesting that so many people here ridicule Emotiva, an electronics company that tries to give the customer a lot of bang for little buck, pretty much the same way they ridicule Bose, who's philosophy is pretty much exactly the opposite.

As the owner of an Emotiva product I must say I was shocked by level of performance, and level of quality I got for the money I spent. Quite similar to the shock I got from the performance I got out of my M80's for the money I spent on them.

I'm happy with my EP800, but if these new subwoofers get good reviews I would definately recommend them to friends looking for good bass, but who might not have a lot of coin.

Micah, I think the ridicule was for the "review".

I have OFTEN considered Emotiva amps. They just don't seem very focused as a company, and that lack of focus seems to be manifesting itself in some unpleasant ways with the processor. I also think that the "we have a container of product on the way from China" dynamic troubles some people, especially in the context of AV123's demise.

For my own part, I just don't see anything really very interesting about these sub offerings, and would probably be more likely to become a customer of eD (or future products from Tweak City Audio) at that price point.

Speaking of TCA, I wonder if Craig is noticing any fallout from his somewhat close association with av123?

I fully agree with you on this topic. Despite its almost thirty year existence, Axiom will also have issues with new equipment as it is introduced. This is nothing out of the ordinary.

To give them credit, in the relatively short amount of time of its existence, Emotiva has accomplished considerable during that period and despite its initial issues, the UMC-1 and the forthcoming XMC-1 in the area of price/performance, are products unparalleled in the industry.

As far as reviews are concerned, advertising dollars talk and being an internet-only company, thus far only the internet only publications have reviewed their products which for I would say "so what"? In the end, like any other organization, what the buyer's say will determine the success or failure of the company, not the volume of reviews.

I never have and never will ridicule Bose. I look at Emotiva the same way I look at AV123 because IMO they have a nearly identical business model, one which I personally wasn’t comfortable dealing with, however, that doesn’t in any way diminish the good experiences others have had with both companies (all three if you count Bose).

If Axiom does something I think is wrong I take them to task here in the forum, the EP350 amp pictures is and example, or my less than stellar reviews of the VP150. I see a problem I’m going to talk about it and the problem I see with Emotiva right now is a company who’s products get over hyped by a core group of people (including a professional review site) and who’s business model IMO in not one that bodes well for the long term success. That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with any of their products just that for me the risk in doing business with them does not outweigh the benefit of the price of their product. For others it worth it, hell there are still people ordering double MFW-15s from AV123 because they are a “smoking hot deal.”

And rest assured that any tongue lashing either Emo or AV123 gets here is nothing compared to what is being said about them in other forums were people aren’t nearly a civil. I think a lot of what you are seeing is the backlash from Emo being over-hyped on various internet forums. Eventually when their products get into the hands of more diverse people who don’t see the stuff as “game changing” and say so it starts flame wars with the fanboys which in turn generates even more bad blood toward the brand. I’m sure every new internet brand goes through some sort of grown pains, I just don’t like what I see below the surface in Emotiva when layers of it‘s onion are peeled back. YMMV.

Another great post grunt. Spot on..spot on.

PS: I think you are referring to the EP500 and not the EP350.

Ok so just to clarify Grunt, you don't like the fact that they rely on slow Chinese suppliers? I'm not all that up on AV123's problems, only that people were having problems receiving what they ordered from them. If that is also a problem with Emotiva, then I was unaware. I guess all I can speak of is my own experence with them. Which went smooth as silk, no problems what-so-ever. If others have had problems getting their own products, then I can understand the concern.

As far as over-hyped reviews go, its a shame that a brand must pay the penalty for someone else making inflated claims about them, and getting a bad reputation because of it. I would feel it unfair as well if Axioms were slammed because of another site giving them more praise than they might deserve. I think Axiom tried to deliver an incredibly competitive product for a great price, and I don't feel they claim to do anything more than that. On the same note, I don't see Emotiva making superlative claims on their own website, only that they're trying their best to bring you a quality product at a very reasonable price point. So if other reviewers are falsely blowing them up and that's turning the masses off, then I feel that's a shame.

They are a small company, so growing pains are imminent. I guess I personally support them because I appreciate their efforts to save me money. I don't see a whole lot of companies out there doing this sort of thing. When I saw the price tag on Axioms M80's I had my doubts on how good they could actually be. But as it turns out I feel Axiom could easily charge twice as much as they do and still not be over priced. I like to reward companies such as these.

So even though Emotive might not have a spotless record, I'm still greatful for what they are attemptng to do for us.

No that isn‘t the issue. Doesn't matter to me who's making the components. What I'm talking about is more broadly how they operate.

There are several things Emotiva does that are "red flags" for me. Steep markdowns on continuing products. Hyping products in development. Constantly introducing new products that often replace previous one (specifically talking about speakers). Expanding their business very quickly. IMO these are all signs of an immature company that's riding close to the edge. If they sold something that I wasn't worried about warranty service on then these might not be issues but electronics products are for me.

Another issue that bothers me about them is heavily moderating their forum both directly and through fanboyism. Needing to control what's being said about them on the internet says either something about the owners, that the business relies to heavily on internet hype, or both. A company that lives by internet hype dies in its absence. I understand that most ID companies, even Axiom, have probably been internet darlings at some point. However, I have more faith in that company if it's core business has a solid foundation beyond internet forums.

When speaker shopping the first company I dropped from consideration was AV123 for the reasons stated above about Emotiva plus a couple others. I was also worried about Axiom in general but if you notice Axiom does not send up any of the red flags that I mentioned above which allayed much of my fears. There were also people pointing out Axiom's warts in other forums and here who weren't being attacked by packs of fanboys so I felt I was getting a more realistic picture of the company.

Emotiva doesn't need to make hyperbolic claims on their own website since they've had fanboys spamming internet forms with hyperbole for some time, though it's died down recently with the problems they've been having and the rising number of complaints that are no longer getting shouted down.

I'm glad Emotiva is in business. New blood leads to innovation. Competition helps the whole market. However, it's my preference to go with a company with a proven track record. If that costs me a little extra money I don't mind. I am quite pleased that you and others are willing to support new companies like Emo, and those who are early adaptors because if it all works out it drives prices down and bring new products into the mainstream. Just not my cup of tea. So I have nothing personal about Emo or AV123, I just like to act as a reality check to make sure people who haven’t looked into them know the whole picture. I’m not bagging on you or any other owner of either of those companies products any more than I would bag on a Bose owner. Everyone has different needs, wants, prices, risk threshold, etc. . . .



This is exactly the type of statement that disturbs me about a company. Companies that foster the idea that they are something more than a business, Emotiva and AV123 come to mind, worry me because they are just businesses and are not doing anything for you. They're in business to make money and if the byproduct of that benefits you then everyone benefits.

Cheers,
Dean

Thanks, and good catch on the sub. I had the EP350 on the brain because of another post I had just made.

I don’t lurk there as much as I use to but I’d say if anything the fallout for him was good. His site became a home away from home for many AV123 members while the AV123 forum was down so I’d say his forum membership went up and so to the exposure of his brand. Though the real expert on that would be Ajax.

Although I don’t care for his online persona, the main reason I’ve never considered joining his forum. However, I get the impression he is a much more savvy and disciplined businessman than anyone at AV123 ever was and as such has a much better chance of acquitting himself better in his audio endeavors.

Dean, your posts continue to amaze and enlighten me. Your thoughtful and articulate contributions are one of the primary reasons why I continue to show up here every day.

Bravo and thank you.

Yes, to the Emo owners, I sicked Snicker Dog in after the review writer, not after Emotiva.

Ok I can appreciate all of your points. If experimenting with a new company isn't your cup of tea the it isn't your cup of tea. I'm not trying to talk you into buying anything off of them after all, only making an observation on the way the company is treated imo.

To expand a bit on my comment of 'appreciating what they're trying to do for us', what I mean is the level of performance they're offering at the price they're offering them at. No doubt they're in business to make money, I've yet to find any non-profit audio companies selling gear. However what I like is that instead of taking a snap shot of the current market and saying, "ok we can sell these (amps, speakers, subwoofers, processors, etc...) for X amount of dollars, because that's how much our competitors are selling similarly constructed products for". Instead they come in under most of their competitors prices, without sacrificing quality (hopefully) or any of the bells and whitles most customers are after. Sure that's a gimmick, a way to separate yourself and pull in a customer base. Still, its a gimmick I'm all for.

Once upon a time Axiom was just starting out, selling a great product for less than their competitors were/are. Now that al that water has passed under the bridge they are respected for doing so. I guess perhaps in time, if Emotiva can start delivering on promises made, keep up on demand (I really can't fault them for growing. I've always heard it said in business you eithe grow to meet customer demand or die trying) and stay the course instead of upping prices, then maybe we'll have another 'Axiomite-like' audio company from which to purchase from.

Just to be clear it’s not only that Emo is a fairly new player, I also just a bad vibe about it’s ownership and how the company is run like I did with AV123. I’m not averse to trying something new all the time I just try to weigh all the factors.

I really want to like Emo, BTW. I was willing to seriously consider their XPA-3 to run my front 3 M80s. However, after upgrading to the Onkyo 3007 I’ve found that isn’t a priority. And based on my overall risk aversion I’m leaning toward monoblocks since if one goes out you just replace it. Or if one of the three up front goes out I could just swap the center back over to the receiver until the replacement arrives.

Don’t think Axiom doesn’t get my same trepidation when it comes to amp. I would love to try one of Axioms amps but they cost a lot, and I’m generally more inclined to go with a long time amp maker and monos again for the risk aversion and again the price.

When it comes to new companies I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pool when it comes to anything plugged into an electrical outlet. Especially small vendors where I feel they are at a higher risk in the long run to stay in business.

I also find it quite strange that small young companies can offer electronics at such lower price points over well established, large scale companies/corporations with massive r&d and established overseas factories with (increasing) economies of scale in production.

I realize Emotiva OEM for different companies but so do most of their competitors. So I do understand the "trickle down" economics involved and how it benefits them. Still, it just doesn't make any sense to me their price points and I feel they must be cutting corners somewhere.

Not to discredit their products or peoples enjoyment of their products but IMO there is something about their business model that just doesn't sit well with me.

That's more like a big bath...

That wouldn't be a good idea now would it.

Thanks for the complement Tom. Watch out or you guys are going to have me thinking I should run for office or something. Nah I’m to antisocial for that.

Now all I need to do is learn to spell correctly and I might even appear semi-literate, however that’s not likely to happen this late in the game.

Even when I can’t articulate it my instincts tell me to steer clear of them.

I've never dealt with Emo before, although I've certainly checked out several of their products out of curiousity(amps). As a few here have mentioned, I'd be concerned about the filtering of negative posts towards any of their products.

JUNK

Bumping a thread that hasn't been posted in for three weeks, we need a little more explanation than that, don't we?

Having a good quality sealed sub at these prices seems pretty unordinary to me. If these subs can reach the frequency response that is claimed within +/- 3dB then this would be something great at this price point.

I agree that IF these subs do perform very well they most definitely have a place in the market. My question is since my SVS PB12-NSD is rated down to 18 hz and like 16 hz in a room is their that big of a difference between 18 and 22 hz? Can anyone think of a good musical choice or movie that would represent sub 20 hz sounds? I am not a fan of test tones if their is no real life application. Some people like to have a 200 MPH car but never take it over 80 in real life, for me thats stupid and nothing more than a pissing contest.

That's all it is, is bragging rights, the human ear cannot hear below 20 hz anyway, although you can feel it. Whether or not 16 hz is more crap your pants than 18 I guess is another story, and dependant on volume I suppose.

I wouldn't say its "bragging rights" who is there to brag too? Who cares? A sub that goes deeper sounds better.

Its kinda like saying why buy a 500 wpc amp if you only use 100 wpc. There is still benefit if you don't.

well it will only sound better if their is material for it to produce the sound. does no good if their isnt a movie with notes that dont go below 25 hz. I was merely asking of some examples of low bass tones in a real life situation such as movie or music.

Most new movies go below 25Hz. Most music does not.

Quality subs go low for a reason, not just for the sake of saying it can. There are a lot of movies that go well below 25..


"Fight Club" Dark, brutal, shocking. And that's just the bass. Strong below 10Hz. Take your gloves off. Wimpy subs don't even try this. SV Subs

The EP800 reaches down pretty low. I can't recall which movie I was watching or the scene right off hand but there was a moment where it was really quiet, didn't hear a thing, but all of a sudden my window pains started shaking violently for a few seconds before the audible bass slowly kicked in. There have been many other occasions such as this one since the EP800 started working again, but that one was the one that really left me smiling.

Kick ass stuff that inaudible bass!

My Buttkicker “Kicks ass” with authority down to 5Hz.

Hey, stop teasing me. I can't afford one yet.

What? You can afford 20 EP800s or whatever you ended up with and can’t manage one Buttkicker?

Sean and I still have one empty seat for our GTG so I you can manage to show up the center one is yours.

Well, the second pair of EP800s are being paid for through layaway, and I've made the payments big enough and frequent enough to interfere with purchases like the Buttkicker. Soon enough, though.

You gonna install the buttkicker in your bed so it kicks you out of bed and over to your 4 EP800s?

I would be concerned about the future structural integrity of that house if I was your dad.

He has to save up because it's going to take 8 Buttkickers to shake his seat anymore than his 4 EP800's will already be shaking it.

Whenever I see the company's name - Emo - I invariably think of two things before I think of audio:

1. those depressed-appearing, Goth-lite teenagers
2. the funny-talking comedian that sawed his finger off in Weird Al's movie, UHF.

Me, too! And you know, Emo Phillips was your EMO#1 before he became your Emo#2. That's kinda how it works.

Just CALL me Mister But-ter-fin-gers. Is My ...face ...red.

Due to recent forum activity, I believe Peanut Butter fingers is more appropriate.

As I recall, it was the absence of fingers that brought us to the Peanut Butter.

How does one say "I have no fingers" in sign language?

Just hold up your hand(s) and they should get the idea.

JP's always trying to make things complicated.

Peter's getting in touch with his inner Avril.

Should i go with 16 gauge or 12 gauge speaker wire for my surrounds?



ps. i didnt use sarcastic font once again but this will be my coining (if thats a word) phrase for when things are so far OT that its humorous.

14 gauge

Seriously...12 or 14, forget the 16.

0 Guage pure silver wire. Oh wait thats [Canadian] car audio.

How long is your run? I had to run about 35 feet of wire to my surrounds, so I used 12 guage. No problemo.