I'd like to have 5.1 or even 7.1, and hopefully 1/2/3/4 height speakers. I have added a plan to show the limitations/spacing




Speakers need to be on wall, e.g. 1-2 ft above ear height, or at ceiling level. I can't have speakers on the ceiling. Ceiling is 8ft tall.

Main front speakers are floor standers at position 1. I'm expecting to have dipoles for 5.1 at position 10 or 13 (or both for 7.1!). Wondering if/where to put atmos speakers.

Sofa is against back wall, could possibly move out 20cm.

Green squares show where I can put speakers anywhere up the wall, pink/red squares show where I can only place them at ceiling height.

Can the couch be moved out into the room centered with the screen or does it have to stay in that location?

In reality the left hand seat is pretty much centred with the screen, and that seat is mine, so the only one where SQ matters

Do you have any pictures of the room to give us context?

And I know it's heresy on a traditional audio forum, but you seem like a candidate for a 5.1.x wireless speaker sound bar setup.

Hi, sorry it's a no to soundbar and wireless! Plus the recent videos from Axiom on youtube said surround/atmos is fine in small room and when sofa against back wall.

Picture would help ... but assuming I have complete freedom to put things anywhere I want (which is never the case). My first thought would be to put the screen on the right wall and the couch centered facing it with its back a few feet from the window. This way you will start off with a symmetrical layout and I'd think that the surround experience would greatly improved. The window would be changed into an asset if cover with heavy curtains.

Although you can get away with a couch up against the wall it's alway better to have a few feet behind it. This is especially true if you ever want to go ATMOS as it's less forgiving than 5.1 and 7.1. Also. it's never good to be sitting next to or below any surround.

Yep.
+1

The couch/screen can't move (there is actually another couch in front of the window which I have not shown.)

The question is just where to place the speakers, and how many to have, bearing in mind the constraints.

I understand ... but the room does have potential if you ever change your mind

Here are my thoughts (others may have better ones)
First, IMO, a 5.1 system would be best ... I think 7.1 and ATMOS are out ...but that's not bad in that 5.1 can sound great and it's a lot more friendly on the budget

I would put QS10s (or any other non directional surround) in the #9/#10 area (on wall) about a 1/4 (at the highest) to 1/2 a meter below the ceiling. M5 on-walls on either side to the screen and optionally a VP150 (or VP160) center under screen. I say optionally because if it's only you watching you should be able to get an ok virtual center off the M5s. If others are watching then the center will be needed (try it without first and see what you think). If you can fit a sub then do it! I'd say its a requirement for any movie that goes boom. I'd recommend the EP500 if you can swing the cost/size (IMO, it's the sweet spot of the line up). If you use a sub you can move to less expensive mains if you need to save some cash (M3ow, M2ow). I have a 5.1 setup in the family room which came out way better than I expected (I'd say somewhere between excellent and awesome ) ... M2s, VP150ow, EP500 with Q10 surrounds. The room is 18'x18'x9' and is split in two ... one side for TV. The other for ping-pong.

I agree that without rearranging the room, 5.1 would be the way to go. QS10s will give you more dynamic range. Since you already have your towers you can tell what the dialogue sounds like without a center channel if you don't already have one.

Seems like a good room. Layout limitation would be a dealbreaker for me.

If you can change things up a bit the result will be much better.

Otherwise I would vote stereo pair at TV and a sub. Call it a day.

Small room. M5s would do.

I'm with Trevor on this one. Your layout is a fuc&*$# disaster and you shouldn't spend any more time and money on it.

I'll go a step further and say you shouldn't have any speakers given the restrictions. How do you expect to enjoy the stereo effect?

Given however that I am an optimist and keen problem solver, here's something to consider. How about you keep what you have and add a sub like Trevor suggested? Then, when you need to enjoy a real soundstage, how about temporarily moving the speakers a couple of feet into the room and placing a chair at position (16,9)?

For all other times, you can listen to a piss poor distorted soundstage with no imaging so you can really appreciate those (16,9) moments. Kinda like when I rarely drink a gin and tonic to remind myself how much better life is when I'm not drinking that awful poison.

Mojo, let's be kind ... not everyone puts imaging as high as you do.

After all, my family yells at me when I spend 1/2 a day getting the image perfect (playing the same few minutes of a song over and over again). Then they laugh at me making jokes at my expense. Highly respected I am

I am being kind. Kind of straight to the point, and very clear. It's of course no reflection on UK_AV.

The thing is, most people I've dealt with, have no idea what a stereo soundstage and imaging are. It's an awakening for them when they hear both.

You only spend a half day nailing your imaging?

Yeah, for the LFRs. I'm hoping that when I tame the refections it will be easier.
I'm also in a heated debate with my alternate self if I should move the MPL back a bit.
2nd row seems to image much easier. Of course this might push the 2nd row a bit out of the designated listening area

M2s, M3s, and M5s are a breeze ... usually, set them down and perhaps a tweak or two and I'm happy.

I agree the room layout is not ideal for music listening, but I'll give a dissenting opinion in that UK_UV needs to run to a 5.1 setup rather than a 2.1 system. The center channel and the surround speakers widen the sweet spot to all the seating positions in the room, not just that one seat. I don't bother tweaking for imaging or spatial placement, it's a recording artifact you don't even experience in a live performance.

I would have no problem recommending the VP180OW or VP160mini OW paired with M2OW or M3OW, I'm one of the vocal minority who believes the center channel is more important than the left or right front channels. M5HPOW if you want to make sure it pumps enough SPL.

Bad advice.

The larger an Axiom gets, the more difficult it becomes to place. There are too many engineering compromises made for the benefit of more and lower bass and higher SPL and instrument realism.

This may not be practical but try an experiment. Get your ears above the top of the cabinet to see if imaging improves.

More practical is playing with toe in and the boundary compensation knob.

I think my advice regarding (16,9) was bad too. What if UK_AV sits there, realizes what he's missing, and spends the rest of his/her life being miserable because he can't enjoy that ideal.

Low DI with curves smooth and similar
disperse the sound as not to be insular
audio pornography, via sonic holography
sharp images spaced out renders them singular.

Why would that be so? Optimizing a single seating position is different from tweaking for multiple seating positions. And in my current setup, the center channel is the weakest link, but only when pushed to higher volumes than I'm willing to listening to. The left/right channels hardly do any work.

I should also point out to UK_AV that Axiom held the prices on the VP160OW and VP180OW before the August price adjustment, and should factor that into whatever equipment they decide to go with, before Axiom realizes their mistake (if it was a mistake).

I will corroborate Mojo's difficulty in using tower speakers in small and medium sized rooms. My Nuance 330 speakers didn't need a subwoofer, but it only worked well in large and open rooms.

Edit: I reread the OP, and I think he just needs to decide which surround speaker to pick.

I've heard the 330s. I couldn't tell I was listening to speakers. Really good feeling.

Winslow Burhoe was the speaker designer for Nuance. He's bounced around quite a few companies in his career (EPI, Boston Acoustics, Acoustic Research, and API/Energy). He strikes me as an old school engineer, his website mentions nothing about the NRC or the family of curves.

http://directacoustics.com/?page_id=56

But he did get results. I bought the M22ti in 2006, and all it had to do was equal the midrange and treble of the 330's (I wasn't expecting a bookshelf to have the bass of a tower). Instead, it wasn't even close, and I returned the Axioms.

The Kanto Yumi's I bought in 2015 sounded different from the 330's, but I considered them equals. The M5HP is the most neutral loudspeaker I've ever owned, and there's no going back. But I don't dismiss anyone who ever bought a Nuance speaker package in the 90's, they probably overpaid, but they got good Canadian sound for that era.

And returning to UK_AV's question, a 5.1 system with multipolar surround speakers would be fine. I have my tripolar Angstrom Suono 100SD's on the floor 110º from the front, and it works great. I don't have experience with Atmos and would defer that to someone else.

His speakers remind me of the Bose free space array.

M22s are not good.

My doped up neighbor across the street has bookshelf Nuances that he bought in the early 90s. They're sitting on the floor and have absolutely wicked mid-bass. Certainly not linear at all.

One day when he's flying high I'll break into his place and borrow them until he gets down. Then I'll give all of you the facts on them.

Edited.

In writing a reply I discovered I dont belong here anymore.

A QS10HP just came up in the refurb section, and the price is right. The OP ought to grab it, you won't do better during Boxing Week.

I'm picking up the M3OW. I'll have an M2, M3 and M5 in the living room so I can switch between 480i, 720p and 1080p holographic resolution.

I have a room setup very similar to yours, but in an even smaller space that is 9'x10' with an open wall on one side. Where your couch is, I have an identical positioning with a sectional. I went with a 5.1 setup with 2 M5HP on walls, a VP100 on wall, and two QS10s. I couldn't be more satisfied with my setup honestly. Even though the QS10s are to each side of me, it still sounds like the sound is coming from behind and is a really engrossing experience.

Don't worry much on your room setup as you can only work with what you have. The VP100 blends very well with the other speakers even though it doesn't have a larger woofer like the others. If I have to do it all over again, I might consider the vp160 on wall over the vp100, but I cant really knock on the vp100 as it sounds great and provides clear dialog.

I was the one who tried to steer you from M5 to M2. My Jedi mind trick worked!