Hello all!

I'm relatively new to HT and am in the process of putting together a sound system for a 20x14x8 room at home. I've pretty much decided on the M60t's for the mains and the qs8's for the surrounds. Where I'm having a problem is with the center. VP100 or VP150 or something else altogether? While I'm pretty sure axioms for the mains and surrounds are solid choices with excellent reviews all around, I'm not so sure about the VP100's or VP150. The VP150 in fact has gotten dinged pretty bad on some forums (and also on audioreview). Too many reviews on both the VP's saying they sound too thin or metallic, have off-axis problems etc. In fact one reviewer on audioreview goes on to say that axiom acknowledged the problem and suggested that the reviewer return the speaker (risk free 30 day trial). Of course, the risk free in-home trial isn't really risk free since you do have to pay for return shipping which really isn't that cheap when you consider the weight of these speakers.

Could this problem with the VP150's be just a case of it not being hooked up or placed right? Or are there better center channels out there? I would prefer to get the matching center channel from axiom (VP100 is a better fit sizewise) but these reviews have me hesitating a bit. Would I be better off going with a "safer" bet like the paradigm cc-370's?

Thanks!

rbk

Duck!!!

Not sure if this will help, but i replaced a klipsch RF3-II with a VP150. I was NEVER happy with the Klipsch and very concerned (for the same reasons you are) about going with the 150. I have had no absolutely no regrets. I do listen to a bunch of multi-channel SACD and DVDA and think the speaker really shines in these formats. Maybe the 150 is very sensitive to room type and placement? That said I wouldn't swap it for any other center out there. Just my 2 cents (what I have left after my recent axiom purchase). --Andy

For a 20x14 room I would go with VP100 anyways...

In general people who thought the VP150 sounded bad found that it sounded great when they pulled it forward so it wasn't "behind the edge of the TV". It's really meant for bigger rooms where (coincidentally) placement is usually pretty easy so I guess it's possible that placement is touchy but most people don't notice because their room is big and they don't have to stuff the VP150 in close to cabinetry etc...

Just guessing though. I have a VP100 and haven't heard the 150.

ramzing,

There's nothing wrong with the VP-150. It sounds wonderful. Clean, clear, and loud.

All of those negative reviews are from the same 3 or 4 very vocal people posting their opinions multiple places. There's no design flaw.

In reply to:

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Could this problem with the VP150's be just a case of it not being hooked up or placed right?

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Bingo

IMO, the best center ch speaker is no center ch speaker (Phantom). I've never been happy with any center speaker I've ever used. I could always tell that the dialog was coming from either above the TV or below it depending on where the speaker was placed (very annoying to me). Equally annoying to me is the fact that there is never a consistent blend/ timbre match between the mains and the center speaker (unless you have 3 identical speakers for the front) which for me, gives me the "I hear two distinctly different speakers blues".

Phantom center gives a seamless blend to the front sound stage and there is no localization - i.e. above or below the TV.

The argument for a center speaker is that it will anchor the sound to the TV for off axis listeners but, even if the dialog is anchored to the TV for off axis listeners, they still get a collapsed sound stage anyway. It would be golden to have a "sweet spot" for every listener but it just ain't gonna' happen.

BTW, I've heard the VP150 in another forum members home and I think that, by itself, it is a pretty damn good speaker. IMO, I think the problem that most people describe with it can be said about most center speakers and is indicative of the fact that it (and most all center speakers) simply do not match the mains anyway and therefore sound less robust, shall we say, by contrast to the mains.

You ask, "Could this problem with the VP150's be just a case of it not being hooked up or placed right?". Not being placed right is the correct question. IMO, the only correct placement for a center speaker would be to place it smack dab in the middle of the TV and even then you would still get a different sound than the mains.

Try the phantom mode, you might like it.

Just my 2 cents.

There are better center channels out there, but how much do you want to spend?

I was little worried about the center channel as well based on some of the non-professional reviews I saw on other sites. Now that I have my VP150, I know not trust these sites!!! The VP150 is a damn good center channel. I am annoyed now when I read about people being so worried about the center channel based these so called reviews (I include myself too, I almost did not buy based on some of those comments). There is no way someone listening to properly set-up, fully functioning VP150 could say that this center sounds so horrible as some of the reviews make it out to be.

Check out the professional reviews. If the center channel was sooooo bad, you would think that at least one of them would mention it. They don't.

I have to second what nitrojiber said. I have the VP150 and think it's stunning. The dialogue is clear and concise and seems to be anchored right smack dab (forgive the technical jargon) in the middle of my screen.

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't done an a/b test with any other centre speaker so maybe I'm just lucky with my setup or easily pleased. I just have to say that sitting there and listening to the Axioms brings a HUGE smile to my face that won't go away.

In the end you have to be your own judge and select what appeals to YOU.

IMO you can't go wrong with the VP150. We have a difficult room to begin with but the 150 delivers crisp clear dialogue to all seating positions. Nothing thin, metallic or off axis in my system. Give it a shot-I think you'll be happy.

This is a "Thank You" to all of Y'all who responded in the positive toward the VP150, from someone who has also read the negative posts on other forums.

Alan had made a comment suggesting that my listening room is somewhat too large for my M3 as center in my new house. I have noticed that at times it does seem a bit strained on some passages but was somewhat reluctant to go with the VP150. Your responces to this thread has helped in My decisions at least, and who knows; maybe a few others as well.

Current finances and responsibilities preclude my getting a new center for a while-but now I have a pretty good plan for the future. Thank you all once again.

Rich.

Another phantom center advocate here.

I also had the VP100/150 dilemma, but thought why not try the phantom first. So far I have been happy with it.

IMHO a dedicated center is needed only if you have a serious HT room with 10K+ equipment. Otherwise it's not worth the trouble with placement, timber match, etc.

With all respect I must disagree, a phantom centre has a very very small sweet spot so if you are alone it may work out fine, but if friends come over or if you like to vary your seating position you are out of luck.

I don't have a serious HT room (very little in my life is serious , it's a living room with about $5k worth of electronics and even with my limited ability I have no problems with placement or timbre matching.

>>and even with my limited ability I have no problems with placement or timbre matching.

There's a man who knows where his towel is at...

Yup, Ford's a real hoopy frood.

Thanks everyone, for responding. Based on all that's been said here and my extensive browsing of these and other forums over the weekend (yup, my wife was not happy), I think I'll give the axiom centers a go. I'll also give the phantom mode a shot once the mains come in, to see if that works better.

One thing I failed to clarify earlier was that although the room is 20x15x8, the speakers will go on the long wall, so the seating position will be about 12ft from them. I would prefer to get the VP100 over the VP150 (only because the VP100 is a better fit sizewise - I don't have a big TV right now). I'm hoping I don't lose too much soundwise.

It was mentioned in some of the posts that ray3 and maybe neverhappy did a test of the vp100 and the vp150 and did not find a significant difference between the two. Could someone point me to ray3's original post, please? I didn't have much luck locating it.

Thanks again!

...but does he know where his towels is?

"Nothing thin, metallic or off axis in my system"
I agree with Jorge fully.
I have the 150 and I think it is fantastic.
And it is expressing itself even better now that I have made the leap to multi-channel music.
As for HT, I played with the placement, and got plenty of goot hints on these forums.
Being able to line the front of it up with the mains helped quite a bit, getting it (as close as I can to)centered between the mains helped again, and then raising up the back (tilting it just a bit forward) a tiny bit - and I mean about a quarter of an inch - did even more.
If you have issues when you set it up, try all or some of those options and you will be very surprised at what a big difference small adjustments can make.
Enjoy!

Well, the order has been placed. Decided to go with the M60's, QS8's and the VP100.
Thanks for all you help!