Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions

Posted by: cowskeleton

Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/16/15 08:28 PM

Hi! Been lurking this forum for years, lusting over a pair of axioms.
Well, the day has almost arrived! Ordered some b-stock m2s in rosewood!
As this is my first entry into top quality hifi gear, I have some questions about sourcing a decent amp to drive these beauties.
Firstly, unfortunately, I have a limited budget (300 max for now).
What is everyone's opinion on a tripath class T? Dayton DTA-120 or APA150, or something in that vein.
How about a class AB like an Emotiva Mini-x a-100?
Should I scrounge around for an old tube amp?
Suggestions are more than welcome!
Thanks everybody!
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/16/15 11:20 PM

AWWWW.... I was going to order those, ha!

My present M2v3s, each paired with its own EP400 sub, driven by a modern Tube Amp (MC-100B), are simply fabulous for music. This system is a true 2 channel setup (no LFE nor digital controls) driven from the 'Speaker Out' terminals of the Amp. I haven't heard anything better out there in my little world.

Eventually you may want a quality sub or two to fill in the bottom end.

Enjoy...

TAM
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/17/15 03:04 AM

Thanks for the reply! That MC-100B amp you have is pretty amazing, and holy subwoofers batman! I do intend to get a sub or two down the road.
Posted by: a401classic

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/18/15 07:38 AM

You got a great deal on those speakers - less than half price! I was eyeing them as well.

The Dayton APA-150 looks an awful lot like the old Emotiva BPA-1 amp with the same ratings and was well liked back in the day. Review

Looks like the APA-150 is a good buy.
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/18/15 07:07 PM

Well, I got them, plugged them in, and...mind blown! Running on a Yamaha ht amp and a sorry little klipsch sub, I have never heard Miles Davis like that before!
I gather they should be burnt in a bit, but man I am a happy clam.

Thanks for the feedback on that APA-150, I will have a long hard look at it.

Incidentally, the speakers themselves are near flawless. Finish is beautiful.
I think I got a hot deal!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/18/15 07:28 PM

Nah, don't worry about burning them in. That's done at the factory in a few seconds. speakers =/= automobile engines.

Glad you're enjoying them!
Posted by: fredk

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/19/15 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: cowskeleton
... I have never heard Miles Davis like that before!Yum, Miles Davis. smile
Posted by: huskydave

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/20/15 06:36 PM

I would look for an older Sansui amp for now such as the au717 they can be had for bargans the sound from those au series is awesome and a lot of times you can pick them up cheap they have a very tube-like sound imo and very low thd numbers. I would run that for a while and save up for a used Bryston.
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/20/15 09:38 PM

Thanks for the heads up on that Sansui. from the looks of it, a legend! Definitely doable price wise too.
And regarding the Bryston, if I drop tonnes of money on an amp, should I just get a McIntosh?
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/20/15 10:02 PM

In addendum, what is everyone's opinion on the tripath?
Posted by: huskydave

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/21/15 05:09 PM

it doubleposted on me, oh well on the tripower they sound ok for the money but they are not great sounding imho. The Emotiva stuff is built with cheap parts and they don't sound great imo. I would rather buy a used bryston amp than a new Emotiva for the same money.
Posted by: huskydave

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/21/15 06:20 PM

"Thanks for the heads up on that Sansui. from the looks of it, a legend! Definitely doable price wise too.
And regarding the Bryston, if I drop tonnes of money on an amp, should I just get a McIntosh?

They are both great choices here is my thinking, You can pick up a 10 year old used Bryston amp that retailed for 5000 or so for 800-1500 depending on model etc.. with 10 years of warranty on it still as long as the owner has the original receipt. I always say look for a deal, Macintosh Bryston Krell Parasound Axiom all make great amps but for $50-$400ish you cant beat the old Sansui amps, I had a au317 and it was awesome it was rated at 50 watts per side but put out 100w per channel easily. I got it at a hockshop for $80.00 I keep buying them and trading them or reselling them because they are bargans.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/21/15 06:48 PM

OK, hold up here.

Are you seriously considering buying an amp that costs 1-2-3-4x the price of the speakers you're using with it? We're talking a tiny fraction of an improvement at best, particularly with M2s. If you were driving big towers, like M80s or M100s or something at high volumes, well, then, sure. But M2s? They're bookshelves. Best suited to not so high a volume. Any improvement you see from changing the amp is so marginal that it cannot possibly be worth the cost.

Here's my philosophy on amps:

1. High end, well engineered (ie, engineered to amplify evenly across the spectrum) amps will sound the same at the same volume level, assuming the capabilities of the amp are not being exceeded at that volume level (ie, the amp is not clipping)

2. Amps that are engineered to sound different (ie, NOT flat across the spectrum), will probably sound at least somewhat different. Tube amps fall firmly into this category, unless they're massive and designed specifically to be flat. Then you might as well buy solid state.

3. The amp is really not the place you want to be modifying the sound! If you want a tube sound, it seems likely to me that you'll get more tube sound for the buck from a tube pre-amp. That way, the coloration is amplified.

4. Marshall amps sound great because they are being overdriven. Do you want to be overdriving your amp? Or do you just want to let the musician do it for you?
Posted by: huskydave

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/21/15 07:55 PM

I guess all the audio magazines that came out were all wrong about the au 717 and all the people that rave about it including me.
Posted by: AAAA

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/21/15 08:05 PM

Can you borrow one to try it out before you drop some coin? I am in the used monster amps kick ass camp. grin
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/22/15 12:08 AM

Originally Posted By: huskydave
I guess all the audio magazines that came out were all wrong about the au 717 and all the people that rave about it including me.

I don't think that's what Ken is saying :

Quote:
1. High end, well engineered (ie, engineered to amplify evenly across the spectrum) amps will sound the same at the same volume level...

The au 717 was arguably "high end" and "well engineered" at a time when most integrated amps were not.

Quote:
..., assuming the capabilities of the amp are not being exceeded at that volume level (ie, the amp is not clipping)

I haven't seen formal tests to support this, but my impression from reviews is that the au 717 was quite "overbuilt" for its specs, so it's probably fair to say that it's capabilities were comparable to more powerful amps at the time.

This is just my impression from when I was learning about vintage Sansui components myself, but there do seem to be solid reasons why people like them (the appearance/styling/build quality seems really nice too). That said, I don't believe any of this is in conflict with the points that Ken made, particularly the one about "exceeding the capabilities" of the amp.
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/22/15 12:22 AM

Thanks for the replies! I realize that a high end amp is unnecessary right now and the wrong thing to throw lots of money at - speakers first, then everything else. I am just dreaming of a day when the big expensive amp is driving even bigger, even more expensive speakers!
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/22/15 12:24 AM

I think I may be experiencing the first stages of an obsession!
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/22/15 06:24 AM

Originally Posted By: huskydave
The Emotiva stuff is built with cheap parts and they don't sound great imo. I would rather buy a used bryston amp than a new Emotiva for the same money.


This post is looking like the Axiom from AVS.

Emotiva has gone through several generations of amps even over the past year. I spent some time talking with the owner of Parts Connection who was the founder of Sonic Fronteer until they went belly up.

The issue that many had with Emotiva was they were under powered for the design that they have. If you listen to their amps at low enough levels then they sounded perfectly fine. But nobody buys a 200watt amp to listen at 10watt output. The XPA amps have 60,000uF storage capacitance, that is woefully under speced for the output they give. But move into the XPR line and they doubles if not tripped the power supply and capacitance to match the levels that are required to work and bring them up to the same levels at everyone else in the market. But in doing so the cost of their amps jumped up to be now very close to everyone elses.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/22/15 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: cowskeleton
I think I may be experiencing the first stages of an obsession!

Nope. You have a plan, so your well through the second stage of an obsession. smile
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 04/23/15 05:42 PM

Just don't buy a cheep-a$$ Sony receiver. I did that and it caused my M22's to never produce any thing that sounded like bass. Don't know much about the M2's though.
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 05/08/15 07:29 PM

Well, I've had the M2s for two weeks or so.
On stands, 18 inches from a wall, they sing pretty good.
Soundstage is big and precise, mids and highs are remarkably clear and honest to the source material.
Makes my blues and jazz stuff really come alive.
Definitely would benefit from a subwoofer, but what bass the speaker does produce is smooth as silk.
Far as I am concerned, my new reference bookshelf, although those Bryston bookshelves look awfully interesting.

I found an old Yamaha rx-v663 receiver that seems to be doing a half decent job driving them.
Now I got a bug in me to have a listen to the floorstanders.
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 05/08/15 08:39 PM

If you want to make them 'really sing', get yourself an EP400 like I have (a pair actually).

There is one right now in the 'Refurb Store' (a rarity) for a huge savings with a 2 Year Warranty. You won't believe how good this will sound with your music as this little sub will reach really deep with authority...

TAM
Posted by: cowskeleton

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 05/08/15 10:16 PM

I saw that EP400! Tempting for sure.
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions - 05/09/15 06:39 AM

I have also seen a whole load of subs on Canadian Audio Mart in that $400~750 range. But it's the sad side to audio.. How do you know what is good and what is done in?